Gwen Shamblin 2: Divorce? What Divorce?

[dawbs]

1 hour ago, sajetime said:

 

Gwen also was critical of Saint Teresa (SERIOUSLY, how can someone be critical of SAINT TERESA?!?!) in her Legend to the Treasure series. She discounted her vow of poverty and all the wonderful things that woman did for the poor, saying her sacrifices weren’t spirit-led. 

In the same series she actually held up Josef and Sonya Smith (found guilty of killing their son) for being martyrs.

 

meh, I can find quite a few things to be critical of St. Teresa for.
Not the vow of poverty or her sacrifices, but, there is enough to take issue with.

Joining her order almost resulted in the death, from starvation and medical neglect (because of the 'value' of pain'), a family member of the Mr's.  And that doesn't even touch on over-valuing frugality to the point of danger, forced deathbed conversions, and the like.

(But I"ll pick things to be critical of that are pretty provable.  I don't judge what's spirit led in someone else)

[laPapessaGiovanna]

4 hours ago, sajetime said:

Gwen also was critical of Saint Teresa (SERIOUSLY, how can someone be critical of SAINT TERESA?!?!) in her Legend to the Treasure series. She discounted her vow of poverty and all the wonderful things that woman did for the poor, saying her sacrifices weren’t spirit-led. 

Well, even Gwen can be right sometimes I suppose. If you'll venture around Fj you'll find out that many Catholic and former Catholic FJers have a lot of not-so-nice things to say about Mother Theresa. Especially regarding how her impressive fund raising abilities didn't improve poor people lives at all. Or how her homes offered sub-standard care to the poors while she enjoyed the very best medical care in her last years. Or how she crusaded against abortion AND against birth control, to the point that she defined abortion "the greatest peace destroyer" in her Nobel Prize acceptance speech. And then she probably endorsed a priest accused of child abuse writing that she hoped he would soon go back to his job in a letter that has been attributed to her, but that wasn't signed. The woman was a true bigot, albeit a well intentioned one, the worst kind.

[Hane]

Oops. When “St. Teresa” was mentioned, I thought of “The Little Flower” or St. Teresa of Avila.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Just now, Hane said:

Oops. When “St. Teresa” was mentioned, I thought of “The Little Flower” or St. Teresa of Avila.

Yeah, most Catholics don't call her S. Theresa, just Mother Theresa.

[NotSkeered]

I have to say Thank You to everyone who has been contributing to these threads. I was taken aback when someone approached me asking if I knew about the divorce/upcoming remarriage and I can honestly say it was difficult to pick my jaw up off the floor. 

See I was about to return, and go "all in" as one would say just yesterday ~ but thankfully friend told me the current situation and I found this forum. I see it as God's protection ~ she just today, see's it as regretful gossip. :( Anyhoo.. thank you for your wisdom! 

One question I have is ... WHY did MIchelle change her name to Elizabeth and why has Erin changed her name to Elle? & Did anyone see the lifetime movie "The Preacher's Daughter" in the last few months? When I watched the preview I had a sneaking suspicion that it had something to do with RF & Elizabeth Hannah. (That girl looked almost just like her!) 

[RFSurvivor_2]

8 hours ago, Destiny said:

Separate from the myriad of other issues with this song, friend who's singing is quite possibly the worst lip syncer I've ever seen!

Indeed!

Fun fact that @RFsurvivor pointed out to me: The lady next to Michael left the church shortly after this "music video" was released. I was a bit confused at the timing so I looked back and retraced some information I have. This definitely is the case.

Sidenote: The young lady next to Michael is extremely musically talented and I am happy she has broken free from that place. And yes, she is doing very well. I am darn proud of her!

[apple1]

Many of us are critical of Mother Theresa, and it has absolutely nothing to do with RF. Not going to take the thread off topic, but it has been discussed in detail over a number of years on this forum. My extremely short summary is that her actual practices weren't so saintly and that at least in part she seemed to thrive on the suffering of others.

One more thing - I have seen several mentions of FJ being a "snark" site. While that is true IN NAME - over the years, this site has morphed more and more into a place for serious discussion of many issues. "Not snark" disclaimers are unnecessary.

ETA: Thank you, @Destiny for placing that warning in this thread. I was thinking the exact same thing several posts before. Red flags are popping up for me by at least one poster to this thread - and I have never had anything to do with RF. Let's just say I have a feeling.

[sajetime]

2 minutes ago, apple1 said:

Many of us are critical of Mother Teresa, and it has absolutely nothing to do with RF. Not going to take the thread off topic, but it has been discussed in detail over a number of years on this forum. My extremely short summary is that her actual practices weren't so saintly and that at least in part she seemed to thrive on the suffering of others.

Thank you for sharing. I have only been here a short time and didn’t realize and had no intention of derailing the thread. 

Suffice it to say, Gwen is staunchly anti-Catholic. 

Also, she held up her members found guilty of murdering their son as martyrs in one of her classes.

 

 

[formergothardite]

11 hours ago, sajetime said:

(SERIOUSLY, how can someone be critical of SAINT TERESA?!?!) in her Legend to the Treasure series. She discounted her vow of poverty and all the wonderful things that woman did for the poor, saying her sacrifices weren’t spirit-led. 

I'm not sure that Gwen and I would agree on why Mother Teresa is a not so great human, but that might be one thing I can agree with her on. It sounds like Gwen thinks that she sacrificed but wasn't spirit led to do so. I don't think she sacrificed that much. I too believed she was a nice person until someone shared with me what was really going on and some of the really awful stuff that happened. We have bunches of threads about this here if you want to learn more. 

 

10 hours ago, Destiny said:

friend who's singing is quite possibly the worst lip syncer I've ever seen!

That was painful to watch. They should have given up on making that music video. 

[Soulhuntress]

22 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I just started reading these threads about Gwen and seem to remember her from the 90s, but never did the Weigh Down thing.   Just remember reading about it.   I read her Wiki entry and yeah, she has real credentials and her original idea of paying attention to hunger and feeling full, in short listening to your own body's signals, makes complete sense.  So to see her descend into this craziness has me scratching my head but I know she's not the first person to start out genuinely wanting to help people and then it all goes awry for whatever reason(s).

The crazy came when she did not hear criticism from peers as what it was: warnings, advice and feedback and listened to her followers and fed off their unquestioning adoration.  It helps having someone as a sanity check.  That is the role a healthy church uses elders and deacons and councils of various types for. She did not want oversight.  She wanted and got a permanent Amen corner.  Which is frankly tragic.

[Heathenmom]

3 hours ago, apple1 said:

Many of us are critical of Mother Theresa, and it has absolutely nothing to do with RF. Not going to take the thread off topic, but it has been discussed in detail over a number of years on this forum. My extremely short summary is that her actual practices weren't so saintly and that at least in part she seemed to thrive on the suffering of others.

One more thing - I have seen several mentions of FJ being a "snark" site. While that is true IN NAME - over the years, this site has morphed more and more into a place for serious discussion of many issues. "Not snark" disclaimers are unnecessary.

ETA: Thank you, @Destiny for placing that warning in this thread. I was thinking the exact same thing several posts before. Red flags are popping up for me by at least one poster to this thread - and I have never had anything to do with RF. Let's just say I have a feeling.

i agree, those comments were weird....me thinks there are spies among us lol

[formergothardite]

Why do people always think we are a blog? 

[Destiny]

49 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Why do people always think we are a blog? 

I don’t know, but it’s one of the weirder things I see from people going on about mean mean meanie pants FJ. Nearly every meanie post or email or tweet I have ever handled has called us a blog. Obviously that error is not only those people, as I’ve seen it a bunch of times besides that, but the fundamental misunderstanding of how the internet works is more common than I wish it was.

ETA: I think with the fundie population it does come down to a fundamental lack of understanding as to how you internet. I guess it makes sense. If you can only go to certain websites and have to have an accountability partner to make sure a random boob doesn’t appear on your screen unrequested and cause you to sin, spending time understanding how things work is probably not going to be a thing. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

1 hour ago, Heathenmom said:

i agree, those comments were weird....me thinks there are spies among us lol

Oh there definitely is at least one on this thread/forum. Its quite obvious to @RFsurvivor and I, to be blunt. Even if there are "spies" amongst us it doesn't change a thing, however we definitely need to heed @Destiny's warnings. As stated before, @RFsurvivor and I will continue to share our experiences and such while keeping the truth in the forefront of our words. No doubt they created an account to try and get a ruse out of us or extract information in which they can "potentially" turn back at us in the future. Its sad, really.

[luv2laugh]

My question is why can’t Remnant Fellowship/Weigh Down Ministry accept any criticism? If they are so confident and secure in themselves and their church/ministry, let ex members openly share their personal experiences, good or bad. Let the truth speak for itself if they are so positive there is nothing but 100% good. Clearly, TLC, the Duggars, and IBLP Gothard HQ were confident enough to not shame people and ex members for going public with their stories. Remnant Fellowship should just be confident in themselves and if they have nothing to hide why worry about what ex members say about them? Why try to pit families and friends against each other and be so petty? They should let SJWaterford’s spouse take his daughter out for lunch- for heaven’s sake. Remnant shouldn’t try to stoop to Scientology’s level. Life is very short and Christians are supposed to be like Jesus to people.

[luv2laugh]

Did Erin Shamblin really change her name to Elle???

[formergothardite]

57 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

IBLP Gothard HQ were confident enough to not shame people and ex members for going public with their stories.

But they did. They worked hard to find out the real info of people who shared stories anonymously so they could dig into their past and find stuff to destroy their character and make it seem like the people who spoke out were liars. IBLP on the surface kept their hands clean, but was actually being pretty nasty to folks who spoke out. 

[Tatar-tot]

If you go to Guidestar.org Remnant Church and WeighDown are one in the same.  At one point WeighDown was a non-profit. Then it morphed into the Church.  

I can see legally why the Shamblins did this.  A church does not have to file with the IRS once they are declared a church.  A non-profit/charity has to file every year and disclose their finances. Part of the disclosures is any payments made to officers and trustees of the entity.  

The other thing about a Church is the stipend a minister is paid for housing is non-taxable.  There is no limit on the amount of the stipend.  Being a church is very lucrative.  Just ask John Oliver about Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption:  

 

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

But they did. They worked hard to find out the real info of people who shared stories anonymously so they could dig into their past and find stuff to destroy their character and make it seem like the people who spoke out were liars. IBLP on the surface kept their hands clean, but was actually being pretty nasty to folks who spoke out. 

True, I did forget about this. What an absent minded mistake I made. I think they started deep digging on the victims after the victims filed a lawsuit though (correct me if I’m wrong)? 

Prior to the moleststion scandals and abuse allegations that came out on RecoveringGrace, I remember that for a good year or two RecoveringGrace was only posting testimonials from ex-members and at that time, IBLP wasn’t making waves over it. IBLP didn’t seemed bothered by ex members calling them a legalistic cult and speaking out against the Pearl method of spanking and blanket training. 

Once the stories of sex abuse came out, that is when IBLP formed their own website DiscoveringGrace and started talking smack about victims. Correct me if I’m wrong on this, though.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

I remember that for a good year or two RecoveringGrace was only posting testimonials from ex-members and at that time, IBLP wasn’t making waves over it. IBLP didn’t seemed bothered by ex members calling them a legalistic cult and speaking out against the Pearl method of spanking and blanket training. 

No, they had people commenting from the beginning who were trying to dig into who was telling the stories on RG so they could attack the people on a personal level. They were pretty vicious all along. Gothard lamented from the start that he had no actual ability to stop members of IBLP from reading RG. He told them not to, but he wished he had the power to stop them from accessing it. 

That isn't even counting the decades of them using all means to silence people who brought up issues with IBLP before RG was even around. 

Discovering Grace is by Alfred who is a worshiper of Bill's and he isn't always a fan of the current version of IBLP. 

[Palimpsest]

26 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I remember that for a good year or two RecoveringGrace was only posting testimonials from ex-members and at that time, IBLP wasn’t making waves over it. IBLP didn’t seemed bothered by ex members calling them a legalistic cult and speaking out against the Pearl method of spanking and blanket training. 

Once the stories of sex abuse came out, that is when IBLP formed their own website DiscoveringGrace and started talking smack about victims. Correct me if I’m wrong on this, though.

I'll be happy to correct you. The harassment of former members of IBLP, and the shunning of family members who leave, has been reported many times.  You can find some of those stories on HA.  These definitely precede the lawsuit against Gothard and IBLP.  There were sneak attacks on other blogs like the ex-ATI guy, who I prefer not to identify (his blog was removed due to the harassment), and Micah, who spoke out publicly early on, going back years.  If you read the comments on all the testimonials going back to the beginning of Recovering Grace you could see people trying to get more information, attacking the testimonials, and attempting to out people.  The threats and actual outings were deleted, but you can see Alfred's (and others) less disgusting comments still there.    And that is just the online stuff. 

More recently IBLP sicced Gibbs Sr. on the victims, threatened the victims and Recovering Grace with lawsuits prior to their filing suit, filed a counter-suit against them, and leaked information to the repulsive Alfred of Discovering Grace to out the Jane Does while appearing to keep their hands squeaky-clean.

OK, back to topic:   I'm just catching up with this thread and I want to thank the RF Survivors and family members for speaking out here. 

I've been avoiding this thread because a. I thought people knew Remnant was a cult, Spirit Watch and Steve Hassan called them out years ago; b. I knew our other resident cult-watchers had it covered (thanks); and c.  I knew the Smith murder case would be brought up and I find it triggering.  I followed the trial at the time.

I just wanted to drop in to say that none of the cult tactics the RF survivors here have described surprise me at all.  The tattling, the shaming, the shunning, the forced disassociation by family members still in the cult, the different standards for the top members compared to the polloi - all standard practice because cult leaders learn from each other. 

However, the way to defeat cults is to shine light on them and get the word out publicly.   Memories are short and not everyone is familiar with the Smith trial.  Internet forums are one way to do it, but so is media attention.  It is best if you can get someone to speak publicly, which takes much courage and means big risks, but I would suggest following up with media outlets even anonymously.   

For example, A & E seems to be taking cults seriously and followed up Leah Remini's Scientology series with another one.  "Cults and Extreme Beliefs."  They covered the 12 Tribes, Warren Jeffs, Nxivm, Children of God, Moonies, and others.  The producers of that show might be interested.

Just a thought.

[Destiny]

8 hours ago, formergothardite said:

That was painful to watch. They should have given up on making that music video. 

He genuinely seemed like he didn't want to be there. He showed no emotion in any of the bits I watched. It was cringeworthy. 

[RFsurvivor]

8 minutes ago, Destiny said:

He genuinely seemed like he didn't want to be there. He showed no emotion in any of the bits I watched. It was cringeworthy. 

Yeah. He only really shows one emotion most of the time. Look at any other music video...

[Destiny]

21 minutes ago, RFsurvivor said:

Yeah. He only really shows one emotion most of the time. Look at any other music video...

The only emotion I saw was mild constipation.

The song wasn't terrible from the singing standpoint. Obviously the words were offensive, but the actual music wasn't bad. It's not my style at ALL, but singing wasn't OMFG the worst I've ever heard. The video itself? Friday was better. 

[luv2laugh]

Wow, Erin Shamblin does appear to have changed her name to "Elle". On all of the Remnant Fellowship videos, any mention of "Erin" in the titles has now been replaced with "Elle". The picture of the name change on the video of her testimony is in the spoiler.

Erin/Elle is so beautiful. I can't help but get the sense that even IF she wanted to leave Remnant Fellowship, she couldn't unless Michael came with her. I wonder if she is "all in" or is just waiting.

Spoiler

 

Why do some of the Remnant Fellowship members change their names?

I have heard that RF members are usually all neighbors. I wonder if that is intentional, as in, to keep "tabs" on each other as accountability buddies?

Remnant Fellowship sort of reminds me of a hybrid between Mormonism/Scientology. For instance, in some areas of Utah, being a Mormon isn't "just" going to church on Sunday. It's ALL consuming and they keep you VERY busy with callings that some say are like a part time 20 hr week job in terms of the work. I've heard RF keeps its members very busy and they have similar volunteer committees that handle everything similar to how the LDS church operates.  In addition, Gwen rejects the Trinity and says we have an ability to be sin-free in this life which are teachings that Mormons follow as well. I've heard of people referring to Gwen as a "prophetess", Mormons also believe in living prophets and follow the prophet. I also think that Gwen's Weigh Down ministry and focus on "eating the way God created us to do" is also similar to how the LDS church has many dietary rules from their Word of Wisdom. 

The stories from ex-members about people shunning each other for leaving the church, spying and reporting on each other, filing lawsuits, and how RF basically comes off as "the one life-changing truth" reminds me a lot of Scientology and Dianetics. People immersed in Scientology are ecstatic to talk about how life changing it is for them.