Josiah and Lauren Part 9: Where Are They Honeymooning?

[louisa05]

16 hours ago, mizandry said:

Lauren looks and sounds like she's moments away from crying to me. The pained smile she forces when she says they're looking forward to sharing lots of exciting memories with everyone... I can feel the sadness after watching that.

For those who don't want to watch the video, this is the expression I'm referring to:

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I totally thought she looked like she'd been crying and was trying not to cry again. Very strange. And they really don't look comfortable with each other or in sync at all. Poor kids. Marrying someone you've never kissed or been alone with is so completely ridiculous and has to be incredibly hard to adjust to. And it is inevitable that not everyone is going to end up happy with the person they end up with in those circumstances. Maybe these two will be happy, but maybe they aren't there yet or maybe they never will be. 

[Greendoor]

The mere thought of JB and Michelle as parents-in-law would leave me crying.  She has just experienced the awfulness that will be a part of everything.  The live near his people, not hers.

[beepy13]

Siah seems fairly content and happy. The video is definitely SUPER awkward, but I agree that it seems like Lauren was trying to read and/or remember lines and specific talking points. Maybe (hopefully) she's just not comfortable in front of the camera, and that's what we're seeing in the video.

[emscm]

More speculation: if they're about to LEAVE for their honeymoon, rather than just coming back, as some have suggested, she may also be dealing with travel nerves and anxiety (in addition to any combination of perviously suggested theories).  I personally DO NOT travel well at all, even if I am very excited about the trip.  Making a video right before taking off on an international flight would not be up my alley at all.  

Someone mentioned homesickness.  My husband and I had lots of sleepovers, but never lived together before marriage.  After we got married we lived in an apartment literally on the same street as my parents, and my first couple of weeks in a new home were still very difficult.  I can imagine this may also be something she could be struggling with.  

 

[pandora]

3 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

As others have stated, it's HARD to go from zero to sixty. They're dealing with huge life changes, and the awkwardness of puberty and dating that should range over years, over night. They probably had very high expectations of marriage, and sex. It's going to take a while for them to feel super comfortable, or that they're doing things 'right', and on camera.

1

Bolding mine- I genuinely wonder if they do though? I'm sure they do in the long term, they think their type of Christians are the only people experiencing true joy, and believe their faith is central to a good relationship, but I wonder if they really go in thinking the first few weeks of adjustment/ sex are going to be magical ( and if they do, who's to blame)? I remember when 19 Kids showed Jessa and Ben getting premarital counseling from JB and Michelle, and they weren't painting everything as sunshine and rainbows, they admit marriage is hard work ( and that's just the part they let Figure 8 film), we know the books they read about intimacy while engaged like "Intended for Pleasure" should be giving them practical sexpectations. Plus, it's one thing if Josh or Jill were a bit uninformed going into marriage of reasonable early expectations, but by now there are so many couples who have wed in the chaperoned-to-the-altar format that everyone should be able to get a little advice from someone they are comfortable with who did this before them- it wouldn't have to be anything even approaching explicit ( and unsolicited advice is so, so, easy to come by anywhere in life- I doubt the Duggars are immune to providing it, they all have some JB DNA). I'm not saying that all Duggar marriage advice is solid ( it seems like their oldest went into marriage thinking that once he had sex with one woman, he'd never look lustfully on another), but gosh at this point if any Duggar kid or their spouse goes into marriage without the expectation that there's gonna be awkwardness and lots of adjustment, either all their married siblings/friends/future in-laws are blatantly lying to them about their experience, or they're stuffing their fingers in their ears and humming. All this isn't to say that even with some forewarning there's still a lot of adjustment and the potential for surprise, but I'd be honestly baffled if most fundie women go into their wedding night expecting fireworks anytime soon. 

I'm attaching one of my favorite fundie reality show moments in which Erin Bates Paine refers to her wedding night as "the big shebang".   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uiAEv4Hdi0 

[BachelorToTheRapture]

To me it just seemed like she had a cold or allergies, not like shed been crying or anything. 

[TheOneAndOnly]

I watched the video ... SO awkward. Of course a male Gothardite would feel that marriage is a blessing, he was just awarded a sex toy that has been trained to be "joyfully available" no matter what. I really hope they're happy and just look bad onscreen. 

[FleeJanaFree]

@pandora Personally, i had low expectations of losing my vCard, with a guy I was very comfortable with, and no religious hangups...still disappointed.  Definitely a feeling of "that's it? That's what I waited for? Meh, I could do without". I could see a fundie woman in particular wondering why she wasn't blessed with more enjoyment/comfortableness. JMO. Everyone's different.

i do think a comment earlier mentioning homesickness makes a lot of sense in a general sense, too. I remember my first week away at college with no internet access. I felt very lost, and I purposely chose a college far, far away From my family.

for now I'm just going to assuming they're adjusting to their new season of life. If they still act like this in a year, I'll charter a fancy speculation bus.

[BunnyBee]

My fiance doesn't know who the Duggars are at all and refuses to watch Counting On with me or listen to my "silly" Duggar gossip, so I wanted him to watch SiRen's thank you video with out any context. The first thing he says to me after the video ends is "I think that girl is either A) high out of her mind, b) she is being held against her will or C) Is about to start sobbing any second" then bewilderingly asked what the story was. 

So its not just us reading into things, even a stranger to the situation and people involved can tell something is off.

I would love for it to be they just got high together but lets be realistic 

[mollysmom]

1 hour ago, FleeJanaFree said:

@pandora Personally, i had low expectations of losing my vCard, with a guy I was very comfortable with, and no religious hangups...still disappointed.  Definitely a feeling of "that's it? That's what I waited for? Meh, I could do without". I could see a fundie woman in particular wondering why she wasn't blessed with more enjoyment/comfortableness. JMO. Everyone's different.

i do think a comment earlier mentioning homesickness makes a lot of sense in a general sense, too. I remember my first week away at college with no internet access. I felt very lost, and I purposely chose a college far, far away From my family.

for now I'm just going to assuming they're adjusting to their new season of life. If they still act like this in a year, I'll charter a fancy speculation bus.

I'm going to forwarn you.....THIS IS TMI...... but I feel as though it's relevant to these fundie kids situations. I cannot have an orgasm during sex. It's never happened for me. I have it other ways no problem but JUST having sex.....nothing. I now know my body well enough to understand that. It was very frustrating at first but once I realized there were other ways to have an orgasm it was fine. My point is, these fundie kids aren't exposed to all that so all they know to do is have sex, not play around in other ways. (Am I making sense? I'm trying to make a point without grossing everyone out....sorry) and I can imagine that is extremely frustrating for those who are unable to do that. 

[BunnyBee]

6 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

I'm going to forwarn you.....THIS IS TMI...... but I feel as though it's relevant to these fundie kids situations. I cannot have an orgasm during sex. It's never happened for me. I have it other ways no problem but JUST having sex.....nothing. I now know my body well enough to understand that. It was very frustrating at first but once I realized there were other ways to have an orgasm it was fine. My point is, these fundie kids aren't exposed to all that so all they know to do is have sex, not play around in other ways. (Am I making sense? I'm trying to make a point without grossing everyone out....sorry) and I can imagine that is extremely frustrating for those who are unable to do that. 

I actually read through the Intended for Pleasure book when someone posted the PDF here a month or two ago, because I have too much time on my hands apparently, and it does talk about other stimulation. I remember being shocked by the instructions to continue pleasuring your wife by *coughs* uhm, um flicking her bean, after sex. 

But she doesnt know what feels good, Siah probably isnt that great, even if he does find the general location. 

Also I am glad you discovered a way to orgasm @mollysmom because every woman deserves a good O 

[louisa05]

One of the things that the abstinence people go on about in the evangelical world is that married sex is the greatest thing in the world and if you wait, you will have amazing mind blowing sex with your spouse. If you don't, you will be a used piece of chewing gum who is busy comparing your spouse to the previous gum chewer or a wilted dying flower that has been handled so many times it has no senses left or something like that... and it will all be utterly horrible forever and ever. I personally know evangelicals who bought this line of thinking 100% and were damn disappointed with the honeymoon sex because they didn't know they'd have to take some time and figure it all out or that the first time would be a bit awkward and not that great. Even the ones who had that exact book kind of thought that the bits about the beginning not being fantastic wouldn't apply because they waited. 

[Dandruff]

I suspect that "joyfully available", as concept, can be substantially easier to handle than its reality.

[PennySycamore]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:38 PM, JordynDarby5 said:

There's a Jane Austen festival? How did I not know that. That is awesome!

As @manda b said there's a Jane Austen Society there which puts on a festival.  This year, they're celebrating the 200th anniversary of the publication of Persuasion. They have a dramatization of Persuasion on Friday evening, a ball on Saturday evening, teas, shops, workshops and sessions.  I'm going to one about the Royal Navy given by a Royal Navy admiral who also happens to be Jane Austen's great great great great... nephew.  There's also one I want to go to about the relationship between Jane Austen's novels and the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brian.  I don't know if I'll get to that one since it's later on Sunday afternoon.  We do have a tea booked on Sunday.  We missed out on the ball because it sold out within minutes.  They have a workshop where they teach the dances.

@manda b,  I'm familiar with the summer heat and humidity of Kentucky.  My grandparents lived on the Cumberland River and we used to visit them most every summer.  One of our favorite things to do was to go to the town drugstore for a fountain Coke.  Those cokes had the best shaved/flaked ice!  We don't know what else we'll do in Kentucky except I think we're visiting my niece in Berea.  My folks went there and I've always wanted to show it to my girls and now, with my niece back there (she's got a job at the college), we've got a good excuse.  

[ViolaSebastian]

39 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

@manda b,  I'm familiar with the summer heat and humidity of Kentucky.  My grandparents lived on the Cumberland River and we used to visit them most every summer.  One of our favorite things to do was to go to the town drugstore for a fountain Coke.  Those cokes had the best shaved/flaked ice!  We don't know what else we'll do in Kentucky except I think we're visiting my niece in Berea.  My folks went there and I've always wanted to show it to my girls and now, with my niece back there (she's got a job at the college), we've got a good excuse.  

Completely unsolicited recommendation, but there's a fabulous build-your-own noodle place in Berea called Noodle Nirvana. They do tons of amazing stuff for the community, to boot. 

http://www.noodlenirvanaky.com/

[rainbowbabycakes]

10 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Amsterdam and Paris airports nearly broke me. 

Both times I flew KLM and layed over in Amsterdam, they lost my luggage.... Actually left it, and had to send it over on the next flight, or however they do that...

It sucked, my ex is in the Army, had just gotten home from deployment, and we were flying home to see family. So we get to the States, and it was only my bag left, so I pretty much have nothing but what I'm wearing. On the way home, it was worse. They left all of our luggage, and were paging us as soon as we got off the plane to let us know it would be delivered later.  The bases in Germany are closed, you can't get on with out a pass, and we didn't have a car, so when the courier got to the gate, they called, we walked down there to meet them, then carried/rolled our luggage back home.

 

[JordynDarby5]

3 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

As @manda b said there's a Jane Austen Society there which puts on a festival.  This year, they're celebrating the 200th anniversary of the publication of Persuasion. They have a dramatization of Persuasion on Friday evening, a ball on Saturday evening, teas, shops, workshops and sessions.  I'm going to one about the Royal Navy given by a Royal Navy admiral who also happens to be Jane Austen's great great great great... nephew.  There's also one I want to go to about the relationship between Jane Austen's novels and the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brian.  I don't know if I'll get to that one since it's later on Sunday afternoon.  We do have a tea booked on Sunday.  We missed out on the ball because it sold out within minutes.  They have a workshop where they teach the dance

That's so cool and sounds so much fun!

[Irishy]

I’m really considering moving to a less expensive area so we can budget better for travel. We take the kids abroad somewhere every year (Airbnb is amazing), usually Spain, Portugal (our favourite), or France. Ireland is wet and cold and I  need more sun in my life. And it’s really important to me that they see new places. I’ve prioritised that since they were young infants. My best childhood memories were of holidays.

as a child I travelled to the US twice. To Florida and to New England. I remember an amazing day at Canobie lake park. 

I loved Cuba and really want to go back. I’m fascinated by all things communist and Cold War era and for that reason Russia is on my list. I loved Berlin last winter and all that fab history. 

I have been to all of Italy, Amsterdam, Brussels multiple times. I only just visited Scotland this past weekend for the first time ever (Glasgow) and it was really lovely.

One place I cannot warm to is London. I’ve been a thousand times but I just don’t love it. I find the people cold and unfriendly and it’s astonishingly expensive and grey. Maybe it’s because I spent lots of years travelling there for work and I can’t shake the association.

[Alice in Fundieland]

We finally get a few more pictures and get to hear the standard fundie marriage advice the parents gave the bride and groom: https://people.com/tv/josiah-duggar-marriage-advice-wedding-lauren-swanson/

https://people.com/tv/josiah-duggar-wedding-photos/#duggar-6

Still no pictures of the entire bridal party though. 

ETA: I need to snark and have a BEC moment on the second article. The first picture looks like Lauren asked if she had something on her face and Josiah is trying to get a closer look. It’s just odd angles and weird face tilts all around. 

Describing their first kiss, “It was like an early Fourth of July! It was explosive and wonderful,” Lauren told PEOPLE, with Josiah adding, “It was perfect, but I plan on practicing more for the next 70 years or so to continuing perfecting it!” 

Finally, is the getaway car decorated with pink and blue post-it notes? Even for the Duggars that seems odd.

 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

17 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I totally thought she looked like she'd been crying and was trying not to cry again. Very strange. And they really don't look comfortable with each other or in sync at all. Poor kids. Marrying someone you've never kissed or been alone with is so completely ridiculous and has to be incredibly hard to adjust to. And it is inevitable that not everyone is going to end up happy with the person they end up with in those circumstances. Maybe these two will be happy, but maybe they aren't there yet or maybe they never will be. 

Forget the kissing--marrying someone you don't truly know, or who has been picked for you, is difficult. When you've never been ALONE or alone with just 1 person (unless perhaps with a parent or infant sibling), never been away from home is horrible.

People who were in love have dealt with wedding night as the first sex for centuries--even not knowing what it involved. But when you don't choose the person or if you have willingly (i.e. culture demands) accepted an arranged marriage but it is a total mismatch, then the whole thing would be even more traumatic. And, that's without having to be on t.v.

[louisa05]

1 minute ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Forget the kissing--marrying someone you don't truly know, or who has been picked for you, is difficult. When you've never been ALONE or alone with just 1 person (unless perhaps with a parent or infant sibling), never been away from home is horrible.

People who were in love have dealt with wedding night as the first sex for centuries--even not knowing what it involved. But when you don't choose the person or if you have willingly (i.e. culture demands) accepted an arranged marriage but it is a total mismatch, then the whole thing would be even more traumatic. And, that's without having to be on t.v.

Someone else mentioned chemistry though, and I think can certainly be an issue in these sorts of marriages. Add in that a lot of evangelicals, especially since the real advent of purity culture beginning in the late 90s, have convinced themselves that even the slightest thought of sexual attraction is sinful, that can become a serious issue. One of my friends who fell for all of that teaching told me right before she married at age 29 that she was "struggling" with "being really attracted" to her fiance. She actually thought that was wrong and she should not be attracted to him until the marriage took place. So many young evangelicals/fundamentalists have trained themselves not to have those thoughts. It would follow that they may marry with no attraction because that is the least sinful potential courtship

[RavenclawPajamas]

13 hours ago, BunnyBee said:

I remember being shocked by the instructions to continue pleasuring your wife by *coughs* uhm, um flicking her bean, after sex.

Did... did they actually phrase it that way?

[MargaretElliott]

I know a lot of people have ragged on Duggar brides/Duggar-to-be brides for leaving their hair down and looking the same as they do every day, but now that I see the back, I LOVE Lauren's hair. I want one of those hair vines if I ever get married (though entwined into a braided updo... no, I don't think about my wedding all the time, pshh... )

[JillyO]

I love Joe (?) akwkwardly lurking at the edge of the picture. How did the no one notice this? That's not a good picture.

Also, here's a picture that shows Lauren's hair, and also part of the back of her dress. Looks like there was a ton of beading and pearls (?) on the back. Not really sure with how that matches what we've seen of the front of her dress so far. The hairstyle looks beautiful. Shame it apparently didn't hold up super-well (judging from some of the other pictures we've seen).

Spoiler

 

[RavenclawPajamas]

12 hours ago, louisa05 said:

One of the things that the abstinence people go on about in the evangelical world is that married sex is the greatest thing in the world and if you wait, you will have amazing mind blowing sex with your spouse. If you don't, you will be a used piece of chewing gum who is busy comparing your spouse to the previous gum chewer or a wilted dying flower that has been handled so many times it has no senses left or something like that... and it will all be utterly horrible forever and ever. I personally know evangelicals who bought this line of thinking 100% and were damn disappointed with the honeymoon sex because they didn't know they'd have to take some time and figure it all out or that the first time would be a bit awkward and not that great. Even the ones who had that exact book kind of thought that the bits about the beginning not being fantastic wouldn't apply because they waited. 

Yeppp, exactly this.  I used to be more religious, and even though I was never fundie or Christian, I thought some version of this at some point.