John David is courting Abbie Grace Burnett

[BunnyBee]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

I checked the notes on the post and it seems someone's already found it: April 16th, 1992.

DAYUM Sleuthers be sleuthing

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

DAYUM Sleuthers be sleuthing

I know, right? I can't compete so I don't even try. 

[SilverBeach]

LPNs administer medications in nursing homes in Illinois. CNAs (certified nursing assistants) provided routine daily care under the supervision of the LPNs. CNAs must be state licensed too in Illinois. Only the Director of Nursing, Assistant Director of Nursing, and a few of the nursing supervisors were RNs in my moms nursing home.  Cost saving measure. Most of the LPNs moved on to hospitals or other settings after obtaining their RN.

How did JD and Abbie meet? Of course he is excited, the prospect of S-E-X is looming! It's refreshing to see two bonafide adults courting, especially after Joy and Kendra. There is hope for Jana, if marriage is what she wants. Hopefully JD and Abbie won't go the full quiver route.

[Yaoichan12]

My grammy is an LPN. She works for a drug rehab place. She administers medication, does vitals, pik lines (pic? idk) and some paperwork. She is planning to take a train the trainer course to teach medication aids though

[Jessesgirl]

6 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Do I see Abbie always working, probably not, she may decide to stop working when she has her first child. I respect her choice if she does decide to be a stay at home mother. 

I appreciate you saying this. A couple of people have made it sound like it would be a bad thing for Abby to stay home once she has children. Of course it would be bad if she was forced to stay home  and actually wanted to go back to work. I hope she has the choice. I would have loved to been able to stay home with my babies for at least a year or two when they were born. Unfortunately, living in NYC, it’s practically impossible to live on just one income. So back to work I went after my maternity leave was over. 

 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Great more fundys breeding.  I hope all the offspring rebel and make a hard left turn.  If we don't find compassion for all people (all living things) there will never be peace. No inner peace, no world peace no peace at all.  I need a drink.  Babies in cages wtf.

[amendgitan]

I will eat my hat if Abbie works during marriage. Ever. Or if they intentionally space out kids. 

I'm ALWAYS surprised how many members here believe one of the Duggars may veer from the party line. 

I mean it's possible. Statistically. But what I've seen with these types is that usually happens only when the man doesn't hold such stringent beliefs, but is stealth, and encourages the wife to veer after marriage. 

However so far I don't see that any of the Duggar boys are veering from the party line. Even if they're secretly screwing people they find on the internet. 

In this case, I see nothing to suggest they will be different. At least not yet. 

[singsingsing]

5 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Great more fundys breeding.  I hope all the offspring rebel and make a hard left turn.  If we don't find compassion for all people (all living things) there will never be peace. No inner peace, no world peace no peace at all.  I need a drink.  Babies in cages wtf.

This. This is basically my only hope for any of them. I can't honestly hope that they 'go fundie-lite', because what good is that, really? Okay, so it's slightly less terrible. Great. And I can't 'hope that they only have boys' because what good is that? Boys can also be victimized and abused and traumatized by this cult, and boys are the ones who will grow up into headships, become the abusers and victimizers, run for office, and hold positions of power and authority. I can't 'just hope that they're happy' because, while that makes me glad for them personally, the rest of society continues to suffer from the oppressive system they're just lucky/privileged enough to (apparently) thrive in. So my only hope is that they wake up and leave altogether.

[amendgitan]

9 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Great more fundys breeding.  I hope all the offspring rebel and make a hard left turn.  If we don't find compassion for all people (all living things) there will never be peace. No inner peace, no world peace no peace at all.  I need a drink.  Babies in cages wtf.

 

When a child is segregated from people who think differently, is homeschooled and homechurched and only socializes with people who believe the way her family does, when they are taught over and over how bad it is for mothers to work, how on earth can it really be a choice for her? 

These women have been conditioned and brainwashed since birth. 

[rainbowbabycakes]

LVN/LPNs can do lots of stuff, at least in Texas. My ex is in the Army, and went from being a medic to an LVN, and it was a tough course, I helped him study through it. The Army had them do it in a year, but usually it's 2, with lots of book work, clinicals, and a licensing exam.  Usually, the military doesn't mind you having a second job, but they weren't allowed to during the course, and single parents couldn't have their children with them, because of the stress of the course, and the stress of kids combined had been proven to be too much,

[louisa05]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But that recognition does not mean I think they are going to start wearing bikinis, voting for Bernie Sanders, and  become planned parenthood escorts tomorrow. 

My friend who was raised fundie left the church world in her late 30s, started wearing bikinis and drinking alcohol, voted for Bernie Sanders and ran the PFLAG booth at Pride in her city last year. 

Anything is possible. 

[RainbowSky]

I was wondering if he'd mention the bachelor comment. Love that LOL

He seems like a hard working good ol' boy type. At least from what I know about. And she's at least don't some hard work for her title.

I hope it works out well! Logically once you have more than a couple of kids, it's not practical to pay someone else to have them all day anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like I believe Alyssa did, have the babies at home with Dad a few hours at a time.  Nothing to say that, just wouldn't surprise me. I wouldn't fault her for staying home with her babies, either. We're skrimping because I haven't gone back after having my little dude so I wouldn't blame her.

Anyway, I hope they're happy!

 

Something that bugs me is that someone will post "Person X seems to be a good influence! Pants and mom went to college, maybe babies will be better off than Wisdom Booklets for school!" 

And someone else comes in "Yeah but so what? They don't immerse themselves with Muslim and Jewish people, at a Hindi temple with their Buddha staturs watching their gay orgies and still dont believe abortion is okay so they're not good enough and haven't gone enough toward the other way for me so they're still evil and everyone should hate them!"

You're still saying "They don't believe what I feel they should so they're a bad person!" 

Just. Like. The. Vocal. Ones. In. Their. Circles.

Because you're liberal instead it doesn't make you not doing the same thing.

Bit of a rant, nothing to do with John Dabbie or anything (well that we know of) but sheesh.

[albireo]

I may be wrong about this, and I'm going to disagree with a lot of people here, but I'd like to throw in my perspective on what constitutes a fundie, whether we can consider the idea of "baby steps" to be helpful, and the dangers that fundamentalism poses.

To me, the defining characteristic of fundamentalism is not the desire for a theocracy (though many do want one), but theological literalism, to whatever scripture to which one's religion adheres and/or the words of one's aligned religious figures. There are some fundamentalists that go in the complete opposite direction of the Duggars etc. and avoid those who don't follow their religion as much as they can for whatever reason. Examples in point: most of the FLDS, Papa Pilgrim, some extremely Orthodox Jewish populations. Despite having no interest in interacting with "the world," these more isolated fundamentalists are certainly strict and literal, and they can cause real harm to those in their care, whether through abuse, neglect, or other controlling behavior. They are not necessarily causing harm to society outside their own communities, though some do, but they are still causing harm, and for that we need to be aware of them.

The other side of the coin is that I believe that straying from a literalist viewpoint does, in fact, make someone less fundamentalist. Such choices as clothing are up for debate from a biblical standpoint, so clothing choices' relevance to someone's faith are very much on a case-by-case basis. For example, posters here have said that wearing pants was a real milestone in how their approached their faith, so we can't say it was meaningless to them. However, a Duggar or Bates? Eh. We've seen that skirts aren't integral to IBLP. So, what about baby steps? It would be great if some of the second generation started making clean breaks and the family empires folded. However, until that happens, I do place value on the second generation's mitigating harm and improving quality of life for their children. I have hope when I see these kids having jobs, because grifting causes harm to everyone involved (not to say grifting is inherently fundie). I have hope when I see expanded roles for women, like Whitney working outside the home and not for/with a family member, because restriction of women's roles causes harm to them. I have hope when I see at least circumstantial evidence of involved and non-abusive parenting a la Jessa, because distant and abusive parenting (which is what Kelly and Michelle did!) causes harm to children. I will have hope if the second generation sends their kids to real school or actually homeschools properly, because educational neglect causes harm. Basically, we don't have that much to go on, but there are small things. They still have literalist beliefs, and for that I consider them fundamentalist or at least close, but their kids may have a slightly better future.

So, how harmful are the TV IBLP families in the end, and what is causing that harm? Their political activism is dangerous, though I would call it a symptom, not a cause, of their fundamentalism. Their political candidates are despicable. However, this is a forum about fundamentalists. If all we cared about was who they voted for, we wouldn't be following these particular families, or at least I wouldn't. There are plenty of conservatives who vote conservative (and racists, homophobes, anti-abortion people, etc). From what I can tell we follow these families because they have particular beliefs that lead them to be particularly oppressive compared to others, the most prominent in my mind being their enforcement of gender roles, Quiverfull, courtship, educational neglect, and child abuse, among others. If these families are relaxing a bit in these regards (which I'm not terribly hopeful they are in some of them), then...well, they're changing practices that are harmful in favor of less harmful ones, and I notice. Do I think that John-David and Abbie will necessarily move further into challenging their cult's norms? No. Could they? Yes. Would it help? Yes. Was Derick more appealing/normal in the beginning? Yes. Is Cathy Duggar-level literalist? In my opinion, probably not, just an asshole.

Lastly, I think that hiding one's beliefs doesn't necessarily make one more dangerous. If people don't know what you believe, then your popularity won't spread your religious beliefs to others, and as a result won't cause harm to people on the outside. I think it's more dangerous to market one's beliefs often and well than to pretend to not be a fundamentalist or to move focus off one's religion. Cute kids and pretty dresses don't turn people fundie. I don't have an exhaustive knowledge of all of these families' social media, so I can't say who is most dangerous, but in my opinion we have to look at how much they actually advertise their beliefs, not just how flashy they are, in terms of danger. So...Alyssa, pretty bad. Jeremy, more dangerous than Jinger because he actually posts about religion while still being appealing. Derick and Jill, they're terrible at this stuff and not going to recruit anybody, but they're also actively doing harm through their "missions." Joe and Kendra, clearly keeping a low profile but they look gung-ho on the quiverfull so that's also pretty bad. Basically, fundamentalists cause harm in many different ways and I think it's incomplete to focus only on external harm, large changes, or visual appeal.

Damn, I was all over the place there, sorry. Lots of thoughts about lots of posts I've seen recently.

[SuperNova]

I usually just lurk in Duggar threads but everyone here is making me laugh. The sleuthing is top notch! And so far we have

-two people willing to eat their hats

-one person willing to eat a shoe

-one person willing to punch someone

if such and such happens/doesn't happen. Sorry I don't remember the names, I just binge read the whole thread at once.

[DillyDally]

Some random thoughts after skimming the last 19 pages (you guys, I need to work, too! ):

-Surprised that they actually got a joint instagram account already. And that "bachelor to the rapture" comment still cracks me up. It must have been something that JD said more than once if he even uses it for their announcement post (but wouldn't it be awesome if he read here and decided to use that phrase to amuse us?) Anyway, I think it's likely they are already engaged.

-Also surprised that JD joined the TLC gravy train, I would not have expected him to do any of those announcement videos (I can't watch it from Germany yet, though).

-I also can't (don't want to?) picture him putting up with those ridiculous courtship rules, they are both in their late twenties, ffs! Do they need to take Josie when they go on a date? 

Lastly, I think it's quite romantic that JD can just fly them to wherever he wants to on a whim. Lots of potential for a romantic proposal here (if it hasn't already happened).

[justmy2cents]

Jeremy was 28 and Jinger almost 23 when they were courting and they used chaperones. Ridiculous or not JD and Abbie probably have to have chaperones too. As for JD being a more involved parent than typical male fundies, we shall see about that. This is the same guy who said he still lives at home for the convenience of his sisters doing his laundry.

[VelociRapture]

43 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

Jeremy was 28 and Jinger almost 23 when they were courting and they used chaperones. Ridiculous or not JD and Abbie probably have to have chaperones too. As for JD being a more involved parent than typical male fundies, we shall see about that. This is the same guy who said he still lives at home for the convenience of his sisters doing his laundry.

To be fair that could have just been an excuse he jokingly made because he doesn’t want to/isn’t allowed to admit he isn’t allowed to move out.

(I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he was being serious though.)

[subsaharanafrica]

On 6/27/2018 at 1:21 AM, xlurker said:

I was thinking Job as in Bible   "Job is a wealthy man living in a land called Uz with his large family and extensive flocks."

 

quote from SparkNotes

There is a Joab in the Bible as well. He was one of David’s Generals. IIRC he’s the guy who carried out David’s order to put Uriah the Hittite on the front lines and then fall back without him so he would be killed and David could marry his wife whom he had already impregnated. 

[Daisy0322]

14 minutes ago, subsaharanafrica said:

There is a Joab in the Bible as well. He was one of David’s Generals. IIRC he’s the guy who carried out David’s order to put Uriah the Hittite on the front lines and then fall back without him so he would be killed and David could marry his wife whom he had already impregnated. 

Haha I vote for Joab 

[Pecansforeveryone]

37 minutes ago, subsaharanafrica said:

There is a Joab in the Bible as well. He was one of David’s Generals. IIRC he’s the guy who carried out David’s order to put Uriah the Hittite on the front lines and then fall back without him so he would be killed and David could marry his wife whom he had already impregnated. 

He also killed two rival generals and David's rebellious son Absolem after David had given a direct order to show mercy to Absolem. Yeah, Joan was a real peach. 

[justmy2cents]

53 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

To be fair that could have just been an excuse he jokingly made because he doesn’t want to/isn’t allowed to admit he isn’t allowed to move out.

(I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he was being serious though.)

It's very possible he was joking but I guess I was reacting to so many posters putting JD on a pedestal. I don't think he's so different from the rest. 

[seraaa]

On 6/26/2018 at 7:08 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s better than Jobbie. Jobbie sounds a little dirty in my 12 year old mind. 

In Scotland this means exactly what you think it might, so let's stick with the A version  

[LilMissMetaphor]

12 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Great more fundys breeding.  I hope all the offspring rebel and make a hard left turn.  If we don't find compassion for all people (all living things) there will never be peace. No inner peace, no world peace no peace at all.  I need a drink.  Babies in cages wtf.

 

Hm.  A few things to unpack here, but I'll limit myself to suggesting that this post would benefit from a bit of compassion.  And punctuation.

[SassyPants]

20 hours ago, freethemall said:

All these discussions about Abbie's nurse potential and her and JD making real use of their skills and certifications reminds me so much of when Jill and OfJill were married - we were all excited that he had a BA from an accredited university, a real job in accounting, real-world experience, and that she was on her way to becoming a midwife. And where are they now?

As a nurse (retired), I knew Jill was never on her way to becoming a midwife. Babies make school, boards and jobs much more challenging, and the Duggars aren't really known for their hard work or gumption. This couple is different in that they already have jobs. In terms of careers, education and employment opportunities, they are more akin to a Bates couple.

I thought DD would expand Jill's world, and he has, but not necessarily in a positive way.

Instead of Jill rising up, DD has sunk below the Duggars in terms of work ethic and gumption.

[Alisamer]

Are they fundies? Yeah. That's all they know.

But IMO baby steps are still steps. If Abbie worked a real job instead of staying home and raising her siblings, hopefully her daughters will know that is an OK thing for women to do, that they can be more than just a baby factory and cook, and don't have to get married as teenagers. If Jessa is parenting in a more involved way than her parents did, that's benefiting her kids. If Jinger and Jeremy decide to only have a few kids and space them out, that's a sign to their kids that hey, this is OK, we don't have to have a billion arrows for the quiver (and I think Jeremy being a pastor adds legitimacy to that for others watching them). 

I don't feel like it's all or nothing. Baby steps are still steps! And each step one of the older kids takes is an example for the younger Duggar siblings and the grand-duggars. They seem to be shunning "the world" less and less, which necessarily will expose them and their children to more than they were given the opportunity to see and do. 

I mean yeah, they still have awful beliefs and want others to conform to them. They're going to anger us and disappoint us. But each step forward is a small improvement, even if it takes generations for them to completely dig out from the patriarchal muck. 

You don't wait until a child can speak in complete grammatically correct sentences before talking to them, or wait until they can run before praising their efforts to walk. I'm willing to take a teeny tiny bit of hope wherever it comes. Maybe the next generation of Duggars will be better. Maybe it'll happen fast, maybe it will take many many years. But they are already an improvement from Jim Bob and Michelle, at least in a few tiny ways.