Turpins 4: 2 Monsters, 13 Victims and Now an Interview!

[freejugar]

I'm only hearing about this case now. Where can I read more?

Wikipedia is pretty surface level, and whenever I google I only find news articles with bits and pieces.

[Hane]

Putting aside the missing $600K, I can’t help thinking about all the medical professionals who offered pro bono help but were never contacted by social services.

[Cheetah]

4 hours ago, freejugar said:

I'm only hearing about this case now. Where can I read more?

Wikipedia is pretty surface level, and whenever I google I only find news articles with bits and pieces.

Recent article - https://people.com/crime/turpin-siblings-challenging-life-after-house-of-horrors/

older - https://people.com/crime/california-david-louise-turpin-children-hospital-ceo-speaks/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/us/california-children-torture-abuse.html?searchResultPosition=7

You'll get more info about the rescue from the 2020 special than from any of the news that came out at the time.  

[Jackie3]

20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I was watching and thinking, “if they had been talking to black parents with 13 kids in a filthy house, they wouldn’t have been so polite.”

To be honest, the fact that it was a white family, in a nice neighborhood, with a father with a good job, probably made people less likely to report anything suspicious. 

I've never understood why it's thought to be an advantage to be a "high value" (ie, white) child in such a situation. Police take a step back and look away when it's a white child, particuarly with middle-class parents. That child gets less protection.

I'm thinking of the Lisa Steinberg case. It was just the anniversary of that poor child's death. She was a 6 year old beaten to death by her father. She was white and her father was a lawyer,  her mother a book editor. 

Lots of people reported the horrible violence taking place in that apartment. But the police/social services cut them slack or looked away, because they were white. They got intimidated, they worried worried about backlash, they assumed everything was probably fine. . . because they were white. Lisa actually was a low-value child, in terms of protection from society.

In fact, a toll booth worker noticed Lisa crying in the car with her father and reported it. The monster father made a huge fuss and played his lawyer card. The toll booth worker was required to write a letter of apology for daring to accuse the father of a crime. But her instincts were right. Lisa was dead shortly thereafter.

Look at Gabby Petito. Many people envy the attention her case got because she was white and attractive. The truth is, she got that attention AFTER her death. But what would that mean to her? She got less help when she was alive, when she needed it, because of her "high value."

[EmCatlyn]

55 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I've never understood why it's thought to be an advantage to be a "high value" (ie, white) child in such a situation. Police take a step back and look away when it's a white child, particuarly with middle-class parents. That child gets less protection.

I'm thinking of the Lisa Steinberg case. It was just the anniversary of that poor child's death. She was a 6 year old beaten to death by her father. She was white and her father was a lawyer,  her mother a book editor. 

Lots of people reported the horrible violence taking place in that apartment. But the police/social services cut them slack or looked away, because they were white. They got intimidated, they worried worried about backlash, they assumed everything was probably fine. . . because they were white. Lisa actually was a low-value child, in terms of protection from society.

In fact, a toll booth worker noticed Lisa crying in the car with her father and reported it. The monster father made a huge fuss and played his lawyer card. The toll booth worker was required to write a letter of apology for daring to accuse the father of a crime. But her instincts were right. Lisa was dead shortly thereafter.

Look at Gabby Petito. Many people envy the attention her case got because she was white and attractive. The truth is, she got that attention AFTER her death. But what would that mean to her? She got less help when she was alive, when she needed it, because of her "high value."

Was it the victims’ “high value” that prevented intervention in these cases or the “high value” of at least one abuser (the white male with a profession)?

[feministxtian]

I just thought about this....I could and would go be their nanny/caretaker. I have an income of my own so I don't need their money, just a place to live. I have my own car, medical insurance, all that stuff. Wouldn't cost them a dime. 

[Mama Mia]

12 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I just thought about this....I could and would go be their nanny/caretaker. I have an income of my own so I don't need their money, just a place to live. I have my own car, medical insurance, all that stuff. Wouldn't cost them a dime. 

From what was said in the special, at least two of them don’t even have a place to live. The four who are still minors are together with a good foster family, but previously some of the siblings were abused in the foster homes they were placed in. The ones who were older teens when rescued seem to have been part of extended/transitional foster care, which offers enhanced services until 21, and is supposed to focus on accessing benefits, job training, life skills, housing etc… which can be great if done right AND you aren’t starting with 18, 20 year olds who have the life experience and common knowledge of a toddler, and are immensely traumatized. There are also some services specifically for vulnerable youth - generally 16-24, these can include housing vouchers and case management. For the siblings who were over 25 there really isn’t a lot of specific long-term help unless they can get them a diagnosis and SSI and help though the mental health system -such as it is. So they likely focused on short-term intensive life skills, medical care and hook up to housing. It sounds like much of the housing was sketchy. 
So basically they qualified for 3 or 4 different baskets of resources depending on age, some of them have moved from one basket of care to another, and they had a relatively shitty - but TBF likely in way over her head - public guardian managing it all. 
The money in trust could be used to purchase a home and that family home would not count against benefits. The same with transportation, paying for schooling or therapy or whatever (although much of that would be covered in California regardless) .

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

9 hours ago, freejugar said:

I'm only hearing about this case now. Where can I read more?

Wikipedia is pretty surface level, and whenever I google I only find news articles with bits and pieces.

There's also a book available on Amazon called The Family Next Door which is very comprehensive.

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Was it the victims’ “high value” that prevented intervention in these cases or the “high value” of at least one abuser (the white male with a profession)?

I'm not sure it matters, since they are dead either way. But I think the abuser's "high value" provided him with (undeserved) protection. 

The victim is said to have "high value" because she receives a disproportionate amount of attention after her death. Perhaps she really had "low value", though,  because people looked away when she was being abused.

There are lots of other "low value" victims. . . the Willis clan, for example. I am sure their whiteness and good looks shielded Toby quite a bit. 

 

[Queen Of Hearts]

For anyone who wishes to see the ABC special but doesn't have a TV provider, someone posted it on YouTube.  

 

I will say, I have never been a Beiber fan but I am now. He is the reason those kids are free, and likely alive.  I hope he sees the special and reaches out to these young women.  

 

[Tigerchild74]

When people talk about "high value" victims, they're not saying that those people are valuable, but that they're valuable sources of attention.  They garner donations, support outside of the community, media attention, unlike people who do not because of their race or status.

Lisa Steinberg was killed when there was pretty much no such thing as mandated reporters in any meaningful sense and child abuse and domestic violence were considered "private family matters" no matter who you were, but especially if you were a powerful white man.  Hearing about a illegally adopted cute little white girl being beat to death by her important father (who also beat her adoptive mother into an unrecognizable shadow of herself) garnered a lot of attention, because of the situation and because it lured in more people than the many other little children who had been brutilized and killed by their parents that week.

The truth of the matter is that people aging out of foster care is a huge problem.  Huge.  When people say they care about/want to support foster kids they're thinking of cute little kids, not teenagers and twentysomethings who the pearlclutchers about kids tend to view with suspicion (especially if they're poor academic performers, are "lazy" and don't have jobs/don't know how to take care of themselves, ect.).  It's unsurprising to me that the Turpin kids got the same level of service that likely happens for other age-out FKs. Hopefully society will give them more of a pass than it usually does to others that do.

I think the vast majority of people who have never been involved in the foster care system for adolescents and vulnerable young adults would be shocked that they get about the same level of service as an indigent person booted out of prison.  And they tend to get preyed upon by the same people too.

 

I'd like to think that people's interest because of this family might lead to some change in how we treat/allocate resources for teens/young adults coping with family removal and trauma, but I'll be honest, I don't think people give enough of a shit about it as a whole, however much lip service they might give the Turpins.

[luv2laugh]

They are so strong and it is devastating how they have been failed...

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I'm not sure it matters, since they are dead either way. But I think the abuser's "high value" provided him with (undeserved) protection. 

The victim is said to have "high value" because she receives a disproportionate amount of attention after her death. Perhaps she really had "low value", though,  because people looked away when she was being abused.

There are lots of other "low value" victims. . . the Willis clan, for example. I am sure their whiteness and good looks shielded Toby quite a bit. 

 

It matters because of the implication that it is unfair that the “white” victim is getting “more” attention than a not-white victim.  What is unfair is that they are victims at all.

The focus should be on the inequality when it comes to intervening and stopping an abusive situation because the abuser(s) is/ are perceived as “decent” because they conform to white middle-class standards.

[feministxtian]

I do not think we've heard or seen the last of Jordan Turpin. That kid has bigger cojones than ALL the men I know. Watch it, she's going to be causing some rumblings in the future. She's very smart and has plenty of guts. Look out world, Jordan Turpin is out and about. She amazes me...in all the good ways. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

For anyone who wishes to see the ABC special but doesn't have a TV provider, someone posted it on YouTube.  

 

I will say, I have never been a Beiber fan but I am now. He is the reason those kids are free, and likely alive.  I hope he sees the special and reaches out to these young women.  

 

My husband was watching with me and said, “Justin Bieber? Really?” And I decided that those poor girls could have found inspiration in just about any pop singer because their parents were so horrible. Anyone is better than what they were used to. I’m glad they found hope in watching him. But they probably could have found hope in Taylor Swift too. They just needed a little bit of that outside world to keep hope alive. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

37 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My husband was watching with me and said, “Justin Bieber? Really?” And I decided that those poor girls could have found inspiration in just about any pop singer because their parents were so horrible. Anyone is better than what they were used to. I’m glad they found hope in watching him. But they probably could have found hope in Taylor Swift too. They just needed a little bit of that outside world to keep hope alive. 

Exactly. It could have been old videos of New Kids on The Block, or the Monkees.  It didn't matter who it was, she was amazed by people dancing and having a good time.  And that's how she realized there was another world out there. 

[libgirl2]

8 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I've never understood why it's thought to be an advantage to be a "high value" (ie, white) child in such a situation. Police take a step back and look away when it's a white child, particuarly with middle-class parents. That child gets less protection.

I'm thinking of the Lisa Steinberg case. It was just the anniversary of that poor child's death. She was a 6 year old beaten to death by her father. She was white and her father was a lawyer,  her mother a book editor. 

Lots of people reported the horrible violence taking place in that apartment. But the police/social services cut them slack or looked away, because they were white. They got intimidated, they worried worried about backlash, they assumed everything was probably fine. . . because they were white. Lisa actually was a low-value child, in terms of protection from society.

In fact, a toll booth worker noticed Lisa crying in the car with her father and reported it. The monster father made a huge fuss and played his lawyer card. The toll booth worker was required to write a letter of apology for daring to accuse the father of a crime. But her instincts were right. Lisa was dead shortly thereafter.

Look at Gabby Petito. Many people envy the attention her case got because she was white and attractive. The truth is, she got that attention AFTER her death. But what would that mean to her? She got less help when she was alive, when she needed it, because of her "high value."

I remember the Steinberg case. That child was let down by so many people. 

[Galbin]

I remember very clearly someone pointed out in the original 2018 thread that these kids could slip through the cracks. I really believed they would be well looked after, but now it looks like that person was spot on.

Heartbreaking. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Galbin

[Jackie3]

Wow. That interview was mind-blowing. 

1. After the video, did those two young women return home to their food insecurity and horrible housing? Did Diane Sawyer, with all her millions, help them at all? Jennifer T said she lived in a terrible neighborhood. Diane could have righted that in a second. If she just interviewed them and let them go, she's as guilty as anyone else. I hope they were paid for that interview.

2. There is nothing unusual about the Turpin story, except for the number of kids in the family. I don't know why the prosecutor called it "possibly the worst case of child abuse." Children are starved and tortured like the Turbins, and then killed. That's worse. Thank goodness, at least these children made it out alive.

3. Those minor children suffered abuse and then went into our flawed foster care system, where it sounds like they are having a pretty typical experience. It's not "shocking," it happens every day. That's the sort of thing that happens in foster care. I hope the Turpin case brings attention to this--there are thousands of kids experiencing the same exact thing. Its' not like there were safe, nurturing foster homes available and they chose to send the Turpins to crappy homes.

4. Sadly, there aren't a lot of people who want to take in children who have been so deeply traumatized. These children have CPTSD, possibly RAD, undoubtedly suffer nightmares, flashbacks, dissociation, and huge trust and attachment issues. There aren't a lot of foster parents (or guardians) who are trained to handle such kids, and to be honest, it can be tough to parent them. If foster parents were paid more, there might be more suitable homes.

5. Jennifer and the other adult kids should set up GoFundMes. I'd contribute. I'll bet most people here would! The money would go straight to them, instead of some pencil-pusher guarding it. It's never good when a third party in handling your money.

6. How fascinating that they had so much footage. Phone videos really change everything.

7. I hope there was a licensed social worker or psychologist there to help the two sisters before, during and after the interview. It can be very triggering and de-compensating to re-live all that trauma, and they might've needed more help than "taking a break" and holding Diane's hand.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Jackie3

[Coconut Flan]

I think Jennifer said she's in college and has housing and foodstamps.  Getting into college can be helpful with more than an education.  Housing and dining service can be included.  

[EmCatlyn]

The video mentions that the Jay Cee Duggard Foundation has started a fund for the Turpins.  I googled the link and followed it, but it tells me that the site has too much traffic right now (exceeded bandwidth) and to try again later.

It seems a lot of people have been moved to help.

[zee_four]

11 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I

Look at Gabby Petito. Many people envy the attention her case got because she was white and attractive. The truth is, she got that attention AFTER her death. But what would that mean to her? She got less help when she was alive, when she needed it, because of her "high value."

Actually about Gabby she had a TON of attention when she was just missing. It actually diverted all the police resources in Moab and Grand County away from a local low income lesbian married couple who had been victims of a sexually violent murder south of town no more than a week prior.

The cops wouldn't even search for the local couple, who I knew from around town and who were loving, fun wonderful women, or put together a missing persons report, and it took friends and family to search for them. It was friends and family who quickly found their bodies brutalized off the only main road in the area they camped in a fairly visible area, in terms of the area outside Moab in Grand County. That there is privilege. Gabby's parents didn't have to beg the cops to do anything and only to be ignored, they didn't have to try to kick start a search party on social media from out of state because they didn't have enough money to be able to even drive to Moab. Gabby's friends and family didn't scour the desert looking for her and her friends didn't recover her sexually violated murdered body. Why? Because within days of her being reported missing the entire country knew who she was and cared. Even if the cops didn't give a fuck about her, which they did, they would have been pressured into action and be monitored for misconduct by a whole army of strangers online who jumped on Gabby's case, just like Maura, like Natalee and all the other missing young middle class het cis white women. 

When Gabby went missing and the local authorities put all hands on deck for that search dropping the murder investigation (which still has gone absolutely no where) of the poor local lesbians that weren't the country's new sweethearts.

So yeah being a het cis middle class white girl from the East Coast provided her a great deal of privilege as soon as she was reported missing, not just after she died with investigating her death.

It is absolutely horrific what happened to her, and her privilege is in no way her fault nor is it necessarily a bad thing. She deserved the attention and the police resources. But so did my friends who the same authorities days before wouldn't do shit for, but with Gabby, even when "just" missing they did. All victims deserve the privilege of cops who do their jobs and a country that cares enough to help and keep it priority number 1 until its solved.

Privilege doesn't stop DV either. Domestic violence is beyond horrific. I was in a grossly violent relationship 2 years ago in Moab and even when I had a cracked skull and miscarried at almost 4 months from trauma GCSD and Moab authorities didn't do anything. My ex with a lengthy rap sheet of DV assaults DUIs etc. got off because the prosecutor believed because I have a mental health condition I was a crazy overly emotional woman and wasn't a victim,, to the point he refused to look at hospital records or the full police reports. Bitches be crazy rightist? Its the fault of the police and prosecutors especially in small towns, who don't give a fuck about DV and do nothing to help stop it. Its the fault of toxic masculinity that is festering and growing like a pus filled wound and instead of being stopped, the highest levels of the US government are legitimizing the violence it breeds. There will only be more violence and murder as a result and there's no end in site currently, in fact it only is getting worse. And all women suffer from it, privilege or not. 

But to say that privilege and attention on these cases makes no difference, it does. Tell that to the thousands of families of missing BIPOC girls and women who cant even get the police to file an official missing person's report. Who are told their loved ones are just junkies or hooked that got what was coming to them or have moved on and its not a crime and they're not worth wasting the most miniscule resources on. Whose families will never have a body to bury, or know what happened, while the killers of their loved ones never are stopped, never given the justice they deserve of prison for life. As a result these men keep going on and killing and raping more and more BIPOC because the officials don't think BIPOC are real victims. So more girls and women suffer because they don't have enough privilege for the cops to consider them human, meaning their disappearances and deaths aren't real crimes which mean absolutely nothing is done to stop sexually violent men, killer men because they aren't real criminals if they only violate BIPOC women.

All women deserve dignity, deserve police to diligently and properly do everything in their power to investigate as soon as they disappear questionably, as soon as they come in with injuries and file a DV report, and they deserve to be considered human and for their assaults or deaths to be considered crimes. Race, socioeconomic background, mental or physical health,  religion, sexuality, gender identity, appearance based on conventional het male gaze, being sexually active with whomever they choose.... none of that should matter. But it does and it is a real problem with real consequences and needs to be stopped.

[EmCatlyn]

A major reason the Turpin case got a lot of attention was the number of victims and how the abuse was concealed.  You hear of two or three kids abused for ten years by their parents and no one had a clue— that’s pretty appalling.  You hear of 13 kids abused for 26 years and no one has a clue, and it boggles the mind.  

I think this is what the investigator who said this was “the worst case” he’d been involved in, maybe the worst case ever in California was thinking of.  The number of victims, the way no one was made uneasy enough to investigate the parents, etc. does make it seem bigger than other cases even though objectively there are many cases of domestic abuse where people die, and in this case all the victims survived.

[smittykins]

16 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I'm not sure it matters, since they are dead either way. But I think the abuser's "high value" provided him with (undeserved) protection. 

The victim is said to have "high value" because she receives a disproportionate amount of attention after her death. Perhaps she really had "low value", though,  because people looked away when she was being abused.

There are lots of other "low value" victims. . . the Willis clan, for example. I am sure their whiteness and good looks shielded Toby quite a bit. 

 

I read a book once(the name escapes me now)that claimed that several neighbors called NYC’s version of Child Protective Services(including the very first day Lisa was brought into the Steinberg/Nussbaum apartment), but nothing was done.

[libgirl2]

7 hours ago, smittykins said:

I read a book once(the name escapes me now)that claimed that several neighbors called NYC’s version of Child Protective Services(including the very first day Lisa was brought into the Steinberg/Nussbaum apartment), but nothing was done.

I believe I read the same too.