Chelsy and John Maxwell 4: Will She Blog Post the Honeymoon

[Howl]

I clicked the laughing emoji but I'm also cringing because that could be uncomfortably close to the truth in some of these hyper-patriarchal families.  The young daughter in one of the families we followed did get married to a middle aged guy (friend of the family), and I truly cringed inside when I saw pictures of him.  I have no idea to this day if she was really attracted to him, or just followed through because her parents thought it would be a nice idea. I'd have to say this was five or six years ago. 

[HoneyBunny]

12 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I don't remember my first kiss...but that TH where they say the newness wears off quickly is sad. Mr Xtian and I have been together over 20 years and it STILL is something new every day. I don't know how to put it but even after all this time, we're still learning new things about each other...people change over time and it just makes things fun. Neither one of us is the same person we were 20+ years ago...

But, I don't think these fundies even get the opportunity to figure out who they are in the first damn place, and I don't think there's much of an opportunity to grow and change over time...and that's sad. 

I so agree!! It actually pained me to read that they had said that. Unless, I don’t know, they’re expecting fireworks and TV cameras every time they kiss. I think that’s a definite drawback to putting so much emphasis on the first....whatever. For the rest of us heathens who didn’t wait until we were married for our first times, every day, every year brings a different reason to love a simple kiss, or a wild sex romp. There is nothing more tender than the kiss from a spouse just before one is wheeled into surgery or a long, long hug when one of your parents passes, or more fun than the realization that, for the rest of your life, sex is just for fun...no birth control or thermometers or calendars or saving this, that and the other. 

Honestly, if they’ve lost that by age 22, I need no further proof to know the fundie way truly is the fun dies way. 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, IntrinsicallyDisordered said:

Once a boy kissed me and it was like a fish was attacking my mouth.  I stopped and said, no, like this, and showed him how it was done and what I liked.  He was very receptive to constructive criticism and a very fast learner.  It was still 10 years before I married him though 

If that first kiss had been after I said vows binding myself to him and in front of other people?  NIGHTMARE FUEL. 

That is kinda what John reminds me of in his Kissing Chelsy picture...

[feministxtian]

3 minutes ago, HoneyBunny said:

There is nothing more tender than the kiss from a spouse just before one is wheeled into surgery

Oh yeah...that last kiss on 3/7/13 was a killer...hubs was getting wheeled into surgery where the unknowns were many and a 1 in 3 chance of success. After that kiss, I watched them roll him into the OR and I ran outside to scream, cry and throw up. Ever since that day, every day seems like a gift...

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

..... Or like, "My dad woke me up and told me I was getting married that day. I was so surprised and nervous, but sooooo excited when I walked down the aisle wearing a modest potato sack and saw that my future husband was Chris! I'd spent so long thinking he was a creep because I'm 17 and he's 41 and he was always staring at me, but now I realize it was all part of God's miraculous plan!" 

You mean like Maranatha Chapman?

[Odd1Out]

I still don’t believe that was their very first kiss. First kiss as a married couple, but not very first. There’s no reason she needed to drag John with her to look for the vows, she and Allison could have gone thru her bags. My money is that they went out to share a kiss before having to kiss in front of everyone. They just don’t have the courage to tell their parents that. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I totally saw this reflected in some of the courtship stories I used to read eight-ish years ago. I think a lot of fundies have relaxed somewhat since then, but these courtship stories were ridiculous.

They were, but they were true and I still don't find them funny.

I think some Fundies have begun to understand that courtship doesn't actually work.  A lot of Fundies and some Evangelicals were sold on it in the 1990s and early 2000s but even Josh Harris is now pulling back a bit from IKDG.  (How much of a mistake he thinks it was is still debatable.)

Moreover, a lot of the hard-core courtship and child marriage folks have taken down their blogs and - or - have been forced underground.  See Vaughn Ohlman.  But it still happens.

15 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You mean like Maranatha Chapman?

Yep.  That story is still terrible.  And her daughter Lauren was married off at 16.  It was "terrible" that they had to wait until she was so old because TX changed the law.

For those that don't know the story: 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/12/the-rest-of-the-maranatha-story.html

I will say that Kristina seems to have recovered from her 6" ruler courtship days and still seems happy with Josh.  But then all the marital dysfunction in her family may have persuaded her that courtship is a bad idea.

 

   

[HoneyBunny]

3 minutes ago, Odd1Out said:

I still don’t believe that was their very first kiss. First kiss as a married couple, but not very first. There’s no reason she needed to drag John with her to look for the vows, she and Allison could have gone thru her bags. My money is that they went out to share a kiss before having to kiss in front of everyone. They just don’t have the courage to tell their parents that. 

We did that. After communion at our wedding Mass, we left the main altar area to take a bouquet to the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary. We were married in a cathedral, and the BVM statue was in a side area where no one could see us.  After we had placed the bouquet, my husband said, “Kiss me!” and we did, and the photographer, who had followed us, captured it. I liked it so much better than the formal, “I now pronounce you man and wife” kiss that happened minutes later that it’s the kiss the wedding photo album. 

Not that these were our first kisses, mind you. Not by a loonnnng shot. But I’m not a huge fan of PDAs either, and it’s obvious that we were both more comfortable in the side altar kiss than the kiss in front of everyone. 

[nausicaa]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

But what must it be like to build up this crazy fantasy in your mind of your super holy and magical and special FIRST KISS!!! and then have it be a total letdown? Hopefully they know that most first kisses aren't so great and that it'll (usually) get better with practice. But man, to experience that in front of a thousand people, up on a stage... That sucks.

I wonder the same thing with the wedding night...

Which I think leads a lot of women to think "Oh I just don't like sex" when really they don't like incompatible sex/foreplay/kissing. I'm extrapolating from my first terrible kiss when I was 15 (he started by Frenching and his tongue was out of his mouth before our lips had touched!). I said for a couple years I just didn't like kissing, when really I didn't like bad kissing. 

And as someone who is intensely private and even more private and shy about romantic things, that photo of a bunch of guys rooting on two people having their first kiss and blowing noisemakers is basically my worst nightmare. 

[Anonymousguest]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Seriously, they could at least give these people like five minutes alone and out of sight of chaperones and nosy siblings occasionally to get to know each other a little better and maybe try out kissing in private. Sure, I suppose if you're extremely motivated and desperate for some action you could absolutely get up to some defrauding shenanigans in five minutes, but if you truly value physical purity or saving yourself for marriage or whatever you want to call it, you'll be able to contain yourselves. I have friends who waited until they were married to have sex, and they were alone together all the time. Waiting was important for them, so they waited. Probably because they were adults capable of self-control and were freely choosing this for themselves.

I know more than one couple who actually lived together alone, in the same house for weeks before they were married and still waited until after the wedding to have sex. If it's important to the *couple* they will wait. Also they have to have been taught they actually have control over their own thoughts and actions. The problem is that the parents are afraid the couple may not want to wait, and they've taught their kids it's not possible to wait without heavy parental control. 

[Black Aliss]

5 hours ago, ophelia said:

A 30 year old grandma. Damn. I'm turning 30 this year haven't got a kid yet. I can't wrap my head around the fact that there are people out there that now become grandparents.

35 when I had my first. Because we were living in a predominantly Mormon area people just assumed Mr. Black and I were the grandparents. 

 

[Hane]

My first kiss was when I was 17 and set the standard for all future kissing. Boy howdy, did I ever get all discombobulated! The relationship never really got off the ground, but some 48 years ago I remember it as if were yesterday.

Let’s just say that I wouldn’t want to have had it happen at the altar in front of God and everybody.

[singsingsing]

2 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

I know more than one couple who actually lived together alone, in the same house for weeks before they were married and still waited until after the wedding to have sex. If it's important to the *couple* they will wait. Also they have to have been taught they actually have control over their own thoughts and actions. The problem is that the parents are afraid the couple may not want to wait, and they've taught their kids it's not possible to wait without heavy parental control. 

I know a couple who did this as well. They actually lived together for several months before getting married, and waited until marriage to have sex. Because they wanted to. Not something I could see myself doing personally, but hey, that's what they wanted, they made the choice, they were happy with it, so cool.

(Just watch out - I remember I mentioned this once a while ago on this board and one poster practically lost her mind at how DISGUSTING it was that I KNEW this about my friends. How revolting it was that I KNEW they were living together and NOT HAVING SEX! I believe she threw something like, 'Ew, ew, ew!!' in there for good measure. It was one of the weirdest and funniest experiences I've ever had on FJ. Never before or since have I come across someone in such dire need of smelling salts. )

[Anonymousguest]

3 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I know a couple who did this as well. They actually lived together for several months before getting married, and waited until marriage to have sex. Because they wanted to. Not something I could see myself doing personally, but hey, that's what they wanted, they made the choice, they were happy with it, so cool.

(Just watch out - I remember I mentioned this once a while ago on this board and one poster practically lost her mind at how DISGUSTING it was that I KNEW this about my friends. How revolting it was that I KNEW they were living together and NOT HAVING SEX! I believe she threw something like, 'Ew, ew, ew!!' in there for good measure. It was one of the weirdest and funniest experiences I've ever had on FJ. Never before or since have I come across someone in such dire need of smelling salts. )

Yeah, that's weird. I'm sure there are lots of people out there that have met me in the last 30yrs who know I want a virgin when I got married, why is it weird to know someone was? One of them I knew at the time, they got married in Europe, her soon to be husband got a job at a university and the details just worked out better for her to move over when he did. The other I met after the fact, but we've been close friends for over 20yrs now. These kinds of things just come up in conversation. 

[ladyamylynn]

I don't have much to add except to say when my older sister was born my grandmother was all of 33!

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I know a couple who did this as well. They actually lived together for several months before getting married, and waited until marriage to have sex. Because they wanted to. Not something I could see myself doing personally, but hey, that's what they wanted, they made the choice, they were happy with it, so cool.

(Just watch out - I remember I mentioned this once a while ago on this board and one poster practically lost her mind at how DISGUSTING it was that I KNEW this about my friends. How revolting it was that I KNEW they were living together and NOT HAVING SEX! I believe she threw something like, 'Ew, ew, ew!!' in there for good measure. It was one of the weirdest and funniest experiences I've ever had on FJ. Never before or since have I come across someone in such dire need of smelling salts. )

Fundies proclaim their virginity until marriage so much you would think the poster you speak of would have a heart attack every time she visited FJ! 

[closetcagebaby]

5 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You mean like Maranatha Chapman?

 Shades of Jessiqua Whitman too!

[sparkles]

The father of the bride just gave a speech extolling the godliness of the father of the groom’s vasectomy reversal. I’m pretty sure allowing the newly married couple some private moments for their first kiss never entered anyone’s mind.

I have no recollection whatsoever of my first kiss, which will tell you exactly how memorable it was.

[HermioneSparrow]

The first kiss ever is overrated. It gets better. My first kiss was when I was 13 with a neighbor, it was okay I guess and I don't remember much but I survived, my heart was intact... Lol! Don't understand fundies obsession with the first kiss.

My first kiss with my first serious boyfriend was fireworks, butterflies and everything good... sweet, passionate, unforgettable. That's the one I remember.

[Ozlsn]

22 hours ago, kpmom said:

And add to that the fact that the groomsmen actually blew noise makers when they kissed!  Good grief!

Well I guess that's the modern equivalent of waiting for the wedding sheet to be displayed.

My first kiss was at about 14, after a school theatre production. We lost contact after school for a decade or so, reconnected via facebook and are still friends. Funnily enough the things we liked about each other in high school are still there.

First kiss with my husband was about 10 years before we got married - we took our time about it! Very glad no noisemakers were present. The photos of us kissing at the wedding look so awkward you'd think it was the first time - very weird performing for family and friends!

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, HermioneSparrow said:

The first kiss ever is overrated. It gets better. My first kiss was when I was 13 with a neighbor, it was okay I guess and I don't remember much but I survived, my heart was intact... Lol! Don't understand fundies obsession with the first kiss.

My first kiss with my first serious boyfriend was fireworks, butterflies and everything good... sweet, passionate, unforgettable. That's the one I remember.

I think it’s really weird too. Kissing isn’t reserved for your spouse only (like sex usually is). You kiss many of your family members in a very non sexual way just like you hug family members and put your arm around them. Along with good friends. Somehow fundies think that hugging and hand holding can be chaste before marriage but not kissing? Their focus on the kiss is weird. 

[Lisafer]

6 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Oh yeah...that last kiss on 3/7/13 was a killer...hubs was getting wheeled into surgery where the unknowns were many and a 1 in 3 chance of success. After that kiss, I watched them roll him into the OR and I ran outside to scream, cry and throw up. Ever since that day, every day seems like a gift...

My hubby couldn't be with me when I had my emergency heart procedure. Bless my father-in-law for sitting there with me as long as it took and holding up the phone so I could talk to my husband before they took me to prep. Your post brings back memories. 

[Lisafer]

Oh, and to stay more on topic: my parents wanted their children to court, seek parental permission to marry, and save sex for marriage, but they were completely unable to maintain that level of control over us. Only one sibling had anything even approaching a courtship. The rest of us found our own spouses and did not ask our parents for permission to date or get married. Boy, was my mom pissed when I got engaged and she hadn't even met my husband-to-be! 

[Lgirlrocks]

Bobby said he felt weird being alone with tori, like they were doing something wrong. Theres a huge problem with that. The Bontragers have said that they won’t talk about how they handle courtship, the rules and such, because every relationship is different. This makes it seem like they allow their children to set their own rules or aren’t a strict as other fundie families. I would like to think they gave alone time to the courtship couples but after reading the married sons’ love stories I kind of doubt it. I don’t think any of then know how to talk to girls before they court.

[ophelia]

14 hours ago, singsingsing said:

But what must it be like to build up this crazy fantasy in your mind of your super holy and magical and special FIRST KISS!!! and then have it be a total letdown? Hopefully they know that most first kisses aren't so great and that it'll (usually) get better with practice. But man, to experience that in front of a thousand people, up on a stage... That sucks.

This reminds me of the conversation I had with my mother after I had told her that I had sex for the first time. She was really sweet and said: "Don't give up!! It gets better with practice and you'll learn what you like and what not!"