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quiversR4hunting

Family SUV plunges off cliff in CA - family from WA

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wild little fox
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Lt. Shannon Barney, a Mendocino County Sheriff's Office spokesman, said Friday that authorities can't rely on dental records to identify the body that was recovered last weekend because authorities haven't been able to find a dentist who treated the children.

He said it will take a couple weeks to get DNA results back from a lab and positively identify the body.

A final report detailing autopsy findings hasn't been released. 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/hart_mom_was_drunk_when_she_dr.html

 

 

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MarblesMom

Are we back to "homeschoolers" who don't even take the kids to the dentist?!

This story is so sad.

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Briefly

The body that was found outside of the van has been identified as Cierra.  I'm not sure of the spelling.  The other two children were most likely in the van as well but could have been thrown out.

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quiversR4hunting
On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:52 PM, Howl said:

Turns out that the aunt of three of the kids desperately wanted to adopt them but was denied. 

Devonte Hart family crash: 'It's just devastating,' says aunt who fought for custody

That is horrifying. My heart is breaking for that aunt.

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Kailash

I do feel terrible for the aunt but the biological mom’s rights were terminated for a reason and I question the aunt’s judgement in allowing the children to be supervised by the bio mother. Would the children have been better off with her than with their adopted family? I would hope so, given what ended up happening, but disaster could have been imminent at the aunt’s as well. 

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hoipolloi
57 minutes ago, Kailash said:

Would the children have been better off with her than with their adopted family?

As an outsider to the system & with no personal experience, this seems to me to be one of the hardest decisions to make with regard to CPS, foster care & adoption -- are children better off to stay within their families or should an unrelated adult be allowed to adopt them?

Judging from news stories, it seems to go both ways in either case. There's no easy way to predict an outcome.

 

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hoipolloi

Looks the Harts parents' abuse was systematic, went on for years, and was known by & reported to the CPS of at least two states:

Quote

 

Oregon child-welfare officials knew in July 2013 that Jennifer Hart — who last month drove her wife and six adopted children off a California cliff into the ocean — had already faced abuse allegations in another state, according to records from their investigation released Monday.

They knew that when the family previously lived in Minnesota, Hart allegedly deprived the children of food and left them to rummage through trash for something to eat at school. School officials eventually stopped telling the Hart parents when their children took food from other students so that they wouldn’t be punished, records released to The Washington Post show.

 

 

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apandaaries
12 hours ago, Kailash said:

I do feel terrible for the aunt but the biological mom’s rights were terminated for a reason and I question the aunt’s judgement in allowing the children to be supervised by the bio mother. Would the children have been better off with her than with their adopted family? I would hope so, given what ended up happening, but disaster could have been imminent at the aunt’s as well. 

The biological mother had numerous problems, but it doesn't seem like we have any indication to believe that she'd deliberately murder the children, as the adopted mother(s)* did. The aunt was trying to provide for the kids and one mistake lead to their demise at the hands of women who were supposed to raise them with love and respect, but instead starved, tormented, then murdered them.

Being around the mother was probably not the best, but there are also a lot of studies that support some kind of continued contact with biological relatives...maybe not the way it happened, but we live in an imperfect world.  The kids didn't die with their biological mom, but they did die with their adopted mothers. We have no reason to believe that their aunt would have allowed that to happen. 

*Since we don't know the extent of their collaboration and perhaps never will...

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Terrie

The aunt faced a classic "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation that comes up a lot for people with limited resources. And CPS is well known to be harsher on minorities and those of limited means. Yes, the biomom's parental rights were terminated, but that does not mean she was a danger to the kids. She might have been. We don't have enough information to know. But, generally, unless the mom was known to be a danger, or she was high while watching the kids, it should have been addressed as a resources issue to be corrected, not by giving the kids to a middle-class white family.

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Hisey
On 4/25/2018 at 5:13 AM, Terrie said:

But, generally, unless the mom was known to be a danger, or she was high while watching the kids, it should have been addressed as a resources issue to be corrected, not by giving the kids to a middle-class white family.

Would a lower class white family be better? Or an upper middle class? What does their income status have to do with anything?

If you could ask those poor dead children, I bet they would want to have been placed with a family that would take care of them and not kill them--white, black, rich, poor. . . wouldn't matter.

I have two transracially adopted kids, and I know race does matter. But in this case, there was something way more important--placing the kids in a home with nonabusive parents.

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Terrie
6 hours ago, Hisey said:

Would a lower class white family be better? Or an upper middle class? What does their income status have to do with anything?

Addressing this as a resources issue would have been better. They had a non-abusive home with their aunt. Families of color and families dealing with poverty are disproportionately likely to have kids taken. That's a problem.

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Howl
On 4/25/2018 at 7:13 AM, Terrie said:

The aunt faced a classic "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation that comes up a lot for people with limited resources....

....Addressing this as a resources issue would have been better.

Years ago, I read a lot of Elizabeth George's Inspector Lynley series, subsequently made into a BBC Scotland Yard detective series.  What Came Before He Shot Her (weird title, I know) addresses this very issue.  It's a true tragedy, where a noose slowing tightens around the necks of three mixed-race siblings in London, starting even before abandonment by the grandmother who was raising them; potential avenues of escape open and close.  I found it compelling and it made a very strong impression on me.  As I mentioned, it is part of the Inspector Lynley series, but is good as a stand alone read.  If you don't understand the issues raised by @Terrie, you will after reading this book. 

Edited by Howl

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hoipolloi
6 hours ago, Howl said:

Years ago, I read a lot of Elizabeth George's Inspector Lynley series, subsequently made into a BBC Scotland Yard detective series.  What Came Before He Shot Her (weird title, I know) addresses this very issue. 

ITA. Ironically, that was the first of the Lynley series that I read and I found it very compelling. I've hoped that she would return to these characters but don't think that's happened.

Of course, many of her existing fans HATED the book because they thought it was a distraction from the series for a number of reasons.

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SilverBeach
7 hours ago, Howl said:

 What Came Before He Shot Her

Excellent book, I love Elizabeth George.  Sad though.

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Howl

A bit more detail in a post by Libby Anne, who blogs at Love, Joy, Feminism

“After the photo event, they go back to looking lifeless.”

The comments are also interesting.  One person noted,

Spoiler

To illustrate: In their most recent photo, 14 year old Abigail is the second child from the left - the one who, at age 6, was "severely" small for her age. To the left of Abigail, on the very end, is 16 year old Hannah Hart, who was 4'1, and 45 lbs. To the right of Abigail, 3rd from the end, is 15 year old Sierra Hart, who was approximately 4'5 and 60 lbs. They would have needed to weigh 95 and 90 lbs. respectively to even hit the 0% mark on the growth chart.

 60 lbs. is the size of an average 8 year old girl; 45 lbs. is the weight of an average 6 year old girl. These were teenagers! Their brother Devonte, in the hat, was 5'1, 90 lbs. and 15 years old - he was the height of a 13 year old and the weight of a 12 year old.

The information the commenter provides is primarily from another article on a website called Medium. The article is Withering Under the White Gaze: The Hart Family Tragedy, was (IIRC) linked in an earlier post on Love, Joy, Feminism

 

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Tired
clueliss

Elizabeth George fan here.  I really liked What Came Before He Shot her because 

Spoiler

it is the 'opposite side' to what happens at the end of the book before it.  I knew what the title meant and knew ultimately what would happen and yet it was done in a compelling way.  I believe the detective in that one was Winston Nkata who is a regular in the Lynley series.  I wish she'd write more with him

 

 

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Howl

Headed to the library tonight to find some Elizabeth George that I have't read to keep me company on a two-hour flight and the hour plus waiting for the flight! 

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Terrie
20 hours ago, Howl said:

The information the commenter provides is primarily from another article on a website called Medium. The article is Withering Under the White Gaze: The Hart Family Tragedy, was (IIRC) linked in an earlier post on Love, Joy, Feminism

This article really sums up what bothered me about what happened with the aunt. I mean, the HuffPo article they link to about Devonte doesn't even mention that there were family members who wanted to adopt him and his siblings. Yes, sometimes adoption is the best solution and sometimes the adopting parents are white and the kids aren't, but to deny that there is a bias in our society that sees the middle-class white family as the ideal is part of what leads to things like this.

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Howl

Sadly, remains are still being found: Remains found near Hart family crash site in California

Quote

Wednesday evening's discovery near the mouth of Hardy Creek in Westport, California, included a pair of girl's size 10 jeans with a shoe "entangled inside," Sheriff's Capt. Gregory L. Van Patten said in a statement.. The shoe, which matched the size of a small woman's foot, included the skeletal remains, he said.

 

Edited by Howl

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OGEmoji

I wish CPS had a way to keep track of families that have had cases. It seems so dangerous that they can just up and move and all of a sudden the children are no longer being monitored.

Edited by OGEmoji
Typos

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Briefly
10 hours ago, OGEmoji said:

I wish CPS had a way to keep track of families that have had cases. It seems so dangerous that they can just up and move and all of a sudden the children are no longer being monitored.

My friend's son is an investigator for CPS in San Antonio. So is his wife.  The main thing he says is that they are so overloaded that the are lucky to be able to keep tract of even a few of the children they have in their caseloads.

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hoipolloi

The WaPo has published an in-depth article on how these two women adopted the six children, and the many, many red flags that a LOT of people saw.  Just sickening.

Quote

 

In July 2013, about three months after the family arrived in Oregon, the state Department of Human Services launched an investigation of the Harts that produced a 30-page report filled with allegations of abuse in Minnesota and Oregon.

The report noted that five of the children were extremely small for their ages. At 11, Hannah weighed 50 pounds and stood less than 4 feet tall, a stature typical of a 6-year-old girl. Devonte, also 11, stood about 4-feet-2 and weighed 57 pounds — the size of a typical 8-year-old boy.

Jennifer and Sarah said the children had issues with food that predated their adoption. A doctor who evaluated the children “expressed no concerns,” the report said, in part because Jennifer and Sarah insisted that the children had been small their entire lives.

During the investigation, a Minnesota child-welfare worker warned Oregon officials that Jennifer and Sarah had long deflected suspicions by blaming the children for their problems. Without regular oversight from doctors, teachers or child-welfare workers, the Minnesota worker wrote that the Hart children “risk falling through the cracks.”

Still, officials in Oregon were “unable to determine” whether child abuse or neglect had occurred. The children, interviewed independently, reported no abuse, one child-welfare worker wrote.

The report deemed the Hart children “safe.”

 

 

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Howl

Heartbreaking.  I wish I could hug the aunt this very moment. 

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Howl
On 5/4/2018 at 8:18 AM, Terrie said:

I mean, the HuffPo article they link to about Devonte doesn't even mention that there were family members who wanted to adopt him and his siblings.

Yes, and according to the recent WaPo article that @hoipolloi linked to, they lived in a happy, stable environment with their aunt for SIX MONTHS.  

Also, my fundy-dar started to ping re: the tiny Minnesota adoption agency that had way too many adoption referrals from Texas.  I'm way curious now about that story.  

Those two women had a pathological dynamic;  one woman abused and the other covered for her.  

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