Dillards 54: Fantasyland Where Reality Isn't Required

[patsymae]

The movie "Vera Drake" is also a good exploration of the hypocrisy and class issues involved in abortion laws.
I'm amazed that this has ever been, and is now recurring in a horrifying way, an issue. But since it is, and given that IMO it's a given that deciding to terminate a pregnancy should not be a societal issue, let me add that:

1). No one who has not faced a crisis pregnancy can say with certainty what they would or would not do. The whole human race is full of people saying "I never thought I'd find myself in this position..." Cause maybe you would find yourself in a back alley if you were desperate.
2. If you believe (not going into the horrors of trying to prove that) that women who have been raped should be allowed to terminate a resultant pregnancy, but women who didn't keep their legs closed should suffer the consequences, you do not respect a fetus as a human being. You want to punish women for being sexual.
3. If you think adoption is an alternative to abortion, you are delusional in many ways:
Women (don't give me "not all,") terminate pregnancies because they don't want to continue this pregnancy
subset -- continuing a crisis pregnancy to birth in order to provide a human to a potential adopter is not for many women a good reason to choose not to terminate
Adoption by a stranger does not end when the check to the agency is cashed and the papers are signed. Women who have given birth continue to be mothers, and to feel like mothers, regardless of who has taken possession of the "product." The grief is eternal (just for starters, read "the Girls Who Went Away" 
Adoption is always, always trauma for an infant separated from the mother (they can now even map it on the brain), even if they don't remember it and even if the adoptive parents are loving. (Just for starters, read "The Primal Wound." Read the statistics--adopteees are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than nonadoptees, etc (and yes, I know "not all).
It just enrages me that people can blithely claim they are "pro-life" support laws that destroy actual human lives, and justify it by saying that well, any woman can just continue the pregnancy, breed for the adoption industry, and everybody will just go home happy as clams.

[JordynDarby5]

My Sex Ed class in high school wasn't that bad. The school board only finally added those classes as a way to try and combat teen pregnancy which was on the rise. She talked about different types of birth control, STDs and tried really hard to get across how hard it was to raise a kid at 16. She brought back teens who had babies while going to our high school to talk about their lives. Basically they were all very hard. Majority of the teen dads bailed most during the pregnancy. They talked about how hard it was to take care of a baby while going to college and working. They talked about what all they were missing going to college parties, spring break and trying to study for tests or write papers with a crying baby. In many cases they were still at home and their parents were helping them out. In another case nope she was booted out by her parents and struggling on her one. Two teenage boys stayed one was shared custody and the other did get married but it was still hard. Among the parents growing up I was always amazed at the amount of sticking their head in the sand. Thinking that if you don't talk to your kids about sex their not having sex. Which one think that wasn't working with the amount of teens who were pregnant or already mothers. The amount of that won't be my teen or that only happens because the parents weren't around or working more then one job. Even thought it was pretty much 50/50 in that case. There was also irony in that statement because their teen usually was having sex and it was known all over school.  Do parents forget going to high school and how many were having sex those years? That hasn't changed.            

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, patsymae said:

The movie "Vera Drake" is also a good exploration of the hypocrisy and class issues involved in abortion laws.
I'm amazed that this has ever been, and is now recurring in a horrifying way, an issue. But since it is, and given that IMO it's a given that deciding to terminate a pregnancy should not be a societal issue, let me add that:

1). No one who has not faced a crisis pregnancy can say with certainty what they would or would not do. The whole human race is full of people saying "I never thought I'd find myself in this position..." Cause maybe you would find yourself in a back alley if you were desperate.

I agree.  My pregnancy was not planned.  When I discovered I was pregnant, I'd been broken up with the father for six weeks.  I had a moment of sheer terror ~ how could I raise a child, by myself?  I briefly considered an abortion, but almost the immediately had an emotional response against the thought.  But it's super important that I had THE CHOICE.  I decided.  No one dictated that decision to me.  Being a parent can be so damn hard at times that you want to run screaming into the nearest woods or bar.  But what happens if you didn't even want that child that is working your last nerve?  What happens when that unwanted, unloved child grows up angry and turns that outwards to society?   

Every female who gets pregnant should have the legal, unalienable right to choose whether to proceed to risk her life and have the baby, or not.  And men really should have zero say.

[feministxtian]

My daughter is the result of one of those "oh shit" moments. Abortion wasn't going to happen due to lack of $$. Adoption...well, here's how that discussion went. "We'll adopt the baby and throw your ass out on the street" (my parents). So the truth is, I had NO real choice. I regret having her. I was too young and too stupid and too wild. She paid the price. Don't get me wrong, I love her like crazy but...it would have been better if I hadn't gotten pregnant or been able to have the abortion and work the stupid and wild out of my system, figured out what I wanted to do, finish school, etc. Instead I ended up in a spiral of shit. 

[Nikedagain?]

4 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

He’s quite a character. In high school he borrowed a pink poodle skirt a science teacher had lying around (no idea why he had it), and wore it around the school before first period. He also brought a stuffed monkey to school named Bobo and left it with various history teachers until one lost it. Then at graduation instead of shaking his hand on stage our principal BOWED to him. Another friend and I decided this means he won high school.

What kind of asshole threatens a kid in the name of “protecting” kids?

One that holds a sign telling clinic patients that abortion DEFINITIVELY causes cancer. 

5 hours ago, pandora said:

Thank you, thank you for the work that you do!!  It's really important and difficult and I'm grateful. I'm sorry that awfulness happened to you with the guy being threatening. You must be so proud of your daughter though, what a great reaction!  

LOL. She has autism and is non verbal. The thinks all the hullabaloo is a hilarious. Of course they don't know that!

[ChickenettiLuvr]

The angriest I ever was on the abortion issue:

I was running sooper late, on my way to work, and was on fumes. Stopped at the gas station nearest to my house, on the corner before the interstate onramp.

Was pumping enough ($5 or 10) to get me there and back, in a flurry and a hurry. When I spied a minivan with this bumper sticker on the rear window:

Abortion doesn't make you unpregnant.

It makes you the mother of a dead baby.

Literal STEAM from both ears whilst praying the driver would exit the building and return to his/her van.

Rufus saved me from a probable assault charge that day...

[Beermeet]

I just watched Jill's date video.  I'm confused.  Why not go in to eat the onion?  Then to Panera for the salads. Maybe even let the kids eat too.  They decided to drive around, collect food, keep the kids in their seats for who knows how long and make a video of it all.  Weird.  

Not mention eating bloomin' onions and salads in a car sucks.  Not car food.  Their both very odd and I get a vibe that they love it and see nothing wrong.

[Ivycoveredtower]

29 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I just watched Jill's date video.  I'm confused.  Why not go in to eat the onion?  Then to Panera for the salads. Maybe even let the kids eat too.  They decided to drive around, collect food, keep the kids in their seats for who knows how long and make a video of it all.  Weird.  

Not mention eating bloomin' onions and salads in a car sucks.  Not car food.  Their both very odd and I get a vibe that they love it and see nothing wrong.

they didn't want to deal with the kids. so they stuck them in carseats and stuck a movie in. I'm actually surprised they didn't drop them off at the TTH. maybe being stuck in a carseat is the new blanket training. 

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

they didn't want to deal with the kids. so they stuck them in carseats and stuck a movie in. I'm actually surprised they didn't drop them off at the TTH. maybe being stuck in a carseat is the new blanket training. 

I just don't get it.  And, why does every outting have to be a date?  I had young children too, we just called it going out.  If we didn't want to sit down at restaurant,  we got food to go and went to a park or something.   The kids are with you, it's a group thing like it or not.  Might as well get out of the damn car!  Weird and lazy.  So not fun or innovative. 

Jill acts like she's never been out and about caring for 5 kids before.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

When we would all go out a family we called it family date night 

[Beermeet]

9 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

When we would all go out a family we called it family date night 

Exactly!  They act like it's a separate date for just them.  Kids are kinda in the way.

[nastyhobbitses]

13 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Exactly!  They act like it's a separate date for just them.  Kids are kinda in the way.

TBH, I think that's how Derick sees his entire marriage. 

[RainbowSky]

38 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Exactly!  They act like it's a separate date for just them.  Kids are kinda in the way.

This is why I'd never been on an acctual normal people date til my third was 3. I took them with me literally everywhere.  I had no effing idea what to do with myself...and my now husband and i had been together over a year at that point.

Maybe they kind of are where they don't either? They didnt know each other super well before marriage it doesn't seem like. Then they had Israel.

 She seems to have been at the big house or with siblings a lot but doesn't seem to be totally childless much unless  I'm missing something.

[SapphireSlytherin]

14 hours ago, pandora said:

I remember we four got in the habit of doing nose goes whenever we heard

Explain, please? Nose goes?

[Imaginary_Wonderland]

4 hours ago, Beermeet said:

Exactly!  They act like it's a separate date for just them.  Kids are kinda in the way.

Derick married into the wrong family then!

I do get that vibe from Derick too though. He sees himself and Jill as a couple, and the kids just extra hassle.  But then that is also probably the attitude Jill learnt from her parents too, so maybe she is just copying them.

[BabyBottlePop]

@patsymae, I totally agree with your post. Also want to add that pro-lifers never seem to think of the all the kids waiting already in our foster care system.  I know older kids are usually not wanted like babies are. Adoption works sometimes but it's not a cure-all.

[Jellybean]

45 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Explain, please? Nose goes?

It’s a way to decide which person within a group gets to do an unwanted task (extended to include far more varied and creative uses, but that’s the basic premise).

An example: Cat sicks up a furball on kitchen floor. Housemates may hear the hacking and yacking and realise that someone is going to have to do some cleaning. The person to start ‘nose goes’ can either say/shout “nose goes not” and then put a finger to their nose, or just start with the finger-to-nose without saying anything. Other housemates realise that this ‘nose goes’ relates to the post-cat-yack-clean-up and each person, as they realise, puts their finger to their own nose. Last person with their finger on their nose gets the job.

Does that make sense? I think I lost track of yacks and noses and goes. 

[Nargus]

3 hours ago, Jellybean said:

It’s a way to decide which person within a group gets to do an unwanted task (extended to include far more varied and creative uses, but that’s the basic premise).

An example: Cat sicks up a furball on kitchen floor. Housemates may hear the hacking and yacking and realise that someone is going to have to do some cleaning. The person to start ‘nose goes’ can either say/shout “nose goes not” and then put a finger to their nose, or just start with the finger-to-nose without saying anything. Other housemates realise that this ‘nose goes’ relates to the post-cat-yack-clean-up and each person, as they realise, puts their finger to their own nose. Last person with their finger on their nose gets the job.

Does that make sense? I think I lost track of yacks and noses and goes. 

We just called it the nose game. If someone says ‘okay I need someone to ______’ then one of the other people will yell ‘nose game!’ While putting their finger to their nose. Last one is the one stuck with it. 

It started at summer camp to see whose turn it was to scrape plates into the food waste bucket lol. 

[Rachel333]

I never learned the nose thing when I was a kid (one of many cultural things I missed!) so when I got older I ended up being the loser quite a few times until I caught on.

[nastyhobbitses]

4 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

@patsymae, I totally agree with your post. Also want to add that pro-lifers never seem to think of the all the kids waiting already in our foster care system.  I know older kids are usually not wanted like white, healthy babies are. Adoption works sometimes but it's not a cure-all.

FTFY. 

Pro-lifers also seem to, as a general trend, not be very keen on regulations that would keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, mandate basic gun safety in maintenance and storage of guns (because the number of toddlers who have killed family members with loaded guns they could easily access and handle is more than zero), and ban consumer sales weapons whose only purpose is to mow down humans as efficiently as possible. Or on rules and laws that would hold police accountable for killing people for no good goddamn reason. Keep that fetus alive, but once it's out, totally fine for that kid to get shot in the face by the cops for being black and outside, or get mowed down in school by some limp-dick sociopathic classmate of his who thinks that mass murder is a good way to deal with life's frustrations. 

As you can imagine, I'm pretty fucking done with most of the pro-life movement. If you walk the walk and you're pro-social programs to help families who have unplanned pregnancies, pro-universal healthcare so that disabled babies can have good quality of life and mothers can access proper prenatal care, pro-revamping of the adoption/foster system so that children find permanent, loving homes fast, pro-gun control, and anti-death penalty, let's talk. If you care more about a baby that might be than about the life of anyone already living (particularly if those living people are black or gay or poor or possessing a vagina), fuck right off. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Thanks for the nose-thing explanation. I've never heard of that!

[Glasgowghirl]

Whatever decision someone faced with an unplanned pregnancy makes has its pros and cons. While I don't think I could choose abortion,  I fully support those who do choose it. Adoption can be great for all parties involved but how many children end up abused or killed by their foster or adoptive parents or how many adopted kids end up rehomed. Pro life people should but out other people's business. If you don't agree with abortion then don't have one then, people who choose it should not be made to feel horrible about it especially when they are most likely already feeling terrible about it themselves.

Respect to those who act as escorts at abortion clinics.

[Nargus]

1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Whatever decision someone faced with an unplanned pregnancy makes has its pros and cons. While I don't think I could choose abortion,  I fully support those who do choose it. Adoption can be great for all parties involved but how many children end up abused or killed by their foster or adoptive parents or how many adopted kids end up rehomed. Pro life people should but out other people's business. If you don't agree with abortion then don't have one then, people who choose it should not be made to feel horrible about it especially when they are most likely already feeling terrible about it themselves.

Respect to those who act as escorts at abortion clinics.

That's very similar to how I feel.  I don't think that I would ever have one personally, but then again, I've never been in a situation where I wanted or needed one.  And so I believe that the choice should be there for everyone.  Making abortion illegal won't lower abortion rates, it will just increase the number of people who procure them through sketchy means.  

[Ivycoveredtower]

 look Derick gets a name tag he must feel so special. 

[artdecades]

Did Jill pick that out for Derick? I think that is the worst suit I have ever seen.