Lina's back!!!!

[onlyorganic]

What would I describe my husband and me as? We are simply two people practicing Orthodox Judaism while holding on to our belief in Yeshua as the Messiah.

It's "Make-Your-Own-Religion Day" at the TT household! So, I'm going to find a way to honor L Ron while still lovin' Jesus. And for the food, I'm going to bring a special dish made with tofu to the party. Because I'm a hardcore vegan. I don't believe in using any animal products, unless it's leather, which looks good and in eating any meat, unless its steak or sushi, which...frankly, are delicious. By everything Lina wrote, she deserves to be called out on that blog...

[FaustianSlip]

Lina, Lina, Lina. I wish you could hear/read your words the way other people do. You and your husband sound like childreen. Spoiled, petulant children who have just been told that they can't have that shiny, new toy everyone thinks is so cool. Honestly, I sounded the same way when my parents told me I had to wait until my birthday to get a Nintendo. Anyway, a few things (I'm typing this on an iPad, so apologies in advance for any riffles):

my husband and I stay home due to the absence of an eruv in our community (in other words, we don’t drive)

Okay. First of all, just as a point of information, an eruv doesn't have anything at all to do with driving on Shabbos. If you're Orthodox, there is no allowance (heter, if you want to use the technical term) for driving on Shabbos. If you're Conservative, there was a ruling by the Conservative ruling body that allows for driving on Shabbat, but only to and from synagogue, and only in the event that you have no other way to access communal prayer. The ruling itself is still really controversial, and a lot of shomer Shabbos, Conservative Jews won't hold by it. The ruling applies regardless of the presence of an eruv, since what an eruv does is allow people within its borders to carry things in the public domain (namely, babies, prayer books, et cetera, although not umbrellas, for reasons I won't get into here). Just FYI.

We do not eat out, unless the restaurant is certified as being kosher.

This must be a pretty recent development, then, because I clearly remember posts from not that long ago showing both her and Tony eating at someplace like Olive Garden, which is totally not kosher. Not saying it's not true, just saying that she's acting pretty holier-than-thou over something that she's picked up mighty recently. And while we're on it, what's with the list of observances, anyway? The issue isn't your level of observance (or lack thereof), Lina. It's that you hold and espouse beliefs that are fundamentally incompatible with Judaism. All of the kosher meat in the world won't change that. It seems like you're trying to obscure the issue by postibg long diatribes about how "observant" you are. Clearly, it's not working.

I haven’t gotten into the practice of davening from the siddur every day....

Just as a side note, I'm kind of surprised at this. To me, regular davening is one of the easiest things you can do- especially if you feel that your obligation as a woman only extends to davening once a day, whenever you want. I'll admit that there are days that I don't do it, but they're pretty few and far between, and I have a job. It seems weird to me that the same posting all of these things about Breslover Hasidism and Kabballah can't find time when she's hanging out at home every day to say a few prayers. Anyway, not really germane to the discussion, just struck me as odd.

Our bookshelves are stocked with books from Artscroll and other well known Jewish bookstores.

Big whoop. Last time I went to a Jewish bookstore (last week, as it happens), it wasn't like they we checking everyone's Jew Card at the door. Anyone can buy a Tanakh or Siddur or whatever. It says nothing about whether you're Jewish. Owning a Quran or a Douay-Reims Bible doesn't make me a Muslim or a Catholic. I also have some issues with Artscroll, but that's neither here nor there.

….And we also happen to believe that Yeshua, a Pharisaic Jew who never deviated from the Torah, was the long awaited for Messiah.

Unfortunately, Lina, tacking this onto your list of observance as if it's some kind of minor technicality doesn't change the fact that Jesus and Orthodox Judaism (any mainline Judaism, really) are mutually exclusive. You can argue and plead and get as mad as you want, but that's the ay things are. Jews over the centuries have died horrible deaths rather than assimilate by proclaiming a belief that Jesus is the Messiah. Do you really think that we're going to spit in the faces of those ancestors by just shrugging our shoulders and saying, "Eh, sure, whateveer, do whatevere you want!" when you and your husband start trying to bully your way into our communities? I don't think so.

Neither my husband nor I have an agenda.

That's not what you've said in the past. You've been quite explicit about your agenda, actually, namely to convert to Judaism under Orthodox auspices. Don't play the wide-eyed innocent, Lina. You've had people expressing their concerns about this and asking for clarification for ages now. The fact that you've only deigned to give answers after being pushed into a corner is no one's fault but your own.

It is offensive to me that my husband and I are seen as a threat to the Jewish community. There is a reason why we are not vocal about our beliefs.

As someone else has said, this sounds like an admission to me. So much for no agendas. And it's offensive to me that you and your husband were quite prepared to lie your way through a beit din. If you don't have enough respect for Jewish law to be honest with the Jews reading your blog, why would we expect anything more should you actually join our community? The martyr bit really doesn't suit you guys at all.

There have been many reports of prominent rabbis or simply Orthodox Jews who believe that Yeshua was the Messiah, yet never bring their belief out into the open for fear of rejection and excommunication.

Source, please. And not a Messianic one. Also, Judaism doesn't really have "excommunication." It's not like there's a pope. The closest thing is cherem, but there are significant differences between that and excommunication.

Before coming to false conclusions based on a quick reading of my blog, please e-mail me so that I can answer any questions you may have regarding our beliefs.

Lina, people have been doing this for months, both in he comments on your blog and in emails. You dance around the subject, behave in a singularly evasive fashion, dissemble and lie by ommission with regularity. The fact that no one believes you now when you say hat you and your husband have no agenda is testament to your previous behavior. You might do yourself a favor to sit down and consider that a bit.

An Orthodox friend of mine who is in the process of converting....

And tell me, do they also believe that Jesus is the Messiah? And are they converting through an Orthodox Jewish (i.e. not Messianic) beit din? If so, they're deceiving their rabbis, their communities and themsekves, and they should be ashamed. I wouldn't take seriously a thing they had to say about lashon hora or any other mussar (Jewish ethics), because it doesn't sound like they have terribly good middos.

You have a lot of chutzpah, Lina, climbing up on a soapbox and flinging the Chofetz Chaim at someone who's said nothing about your blog that isn't true and, indeed, has been kinder than a lot of people might have been. Skylar didn't violate the laws of lashon hora just because you don't like what she had to say. You admit yourself that you and your husband deliberately conceal your beliefs regarding Jesus because you know how thwey'll be received. You attempt to downplay those beliefs in this very post. You're a hypocrite, Lina. There was a time I ght have felt a bit sorry for you, because I think you're very young and very confused, but your behavior makes it pretty clear that no matter how you dress it up, you ultimately want what you want, and damn everybody else. And really, why do you need an Orthodox community when you and your husband are doing so much better following the mitzvot, thanks to Yeshua?

[longskirts]

Defrauding, that's interesting because Beit Shalom identifies itself as "Messianic Jewish" on its website. It's strange that Lina is making a big deal about not fitting in to a messianic community if she attends a messianic congregation. Apparently the term is good enough for them, but not for her.

[emmiedahl]

If we get to pick how to define ourselves without any respect for the group involved, I would like to be Punjabi because the clothes are so pretty and the food is amazing. Oh, and a lesbian, because my lesbian relatives and friends are cool... so I can be one, even though I am married to a man and don't have female lovers. Right? And then I can post on the internets about how people are so homophobic and racist when they tell me I am not an Indian lesbian. You bigots!

That is Lina's logic. I am shocked that she found a man who thinks the same fucked up way. I am even more shocked that there is a congregation dedicated to it in her area. What are the chances? I wish I could stop reading her blog, but I just can't stop. It is just too amazing.

[longskirts]

From Beit Shalom's website: "Many of the congregation's members are involved in various ways with the larger Jewish community." I wonder what those "various ways" are...

[GryffindorFTW]

I know someone already made one, but I had already started working on it, and had some other ideas too. :)

I can upload the original too, if anyone wants to use it. :D

[slickcat79]

Hehehe. Tsk tsk@my sloppiness though! It was a during-dinner-prep-shopjob so I was lazy.

Bwahahaha :lol: Lissar, feel free to send my internetz to spider burps

Welcome to our humble community!

[slickcat79]

GryffindorFTW-nicely done! :dance:

[Guest Anonymous]

Bwahahaha :lol: Lissar, feel free to send my internetz to spider burps

Internets all around! One for you, one for Spider Burps, and one for GryffindorFTW, too.

[pomology]

Let me break Lina down for y’all --

“We practice Judaism (more specifically, Orthodox Judaism), which means we strive to keep all of the halachot.â€

Well, first of all, you cannot practice Judaism if you believe Jesus is the Messiah. Let me repeat, if you believe Jesus is the Messiah than you cannot practice Judaism no matter how many Jewish things you do. If you believe Jesus is the Messiah you are violating some MAJOR aspects of halacha. Also, I’m pretty sure that halacha is basically cannot be pluralized as it doesn’t refer to specific laws but the entire body of Jewish law.

“Every month when I become a niddah, my husband and I separate for a total of 12-14 days (depending on the length of bleeding).â€

Um, you’ve been married what, two weeks now? Let’s see how long this lasts.

“He even has a nighttime kippah that he wears to bed.â€

I might be way off base here, but I’m pretty sure Jews don’t actually do that.

“My husband studies Talmud and the halachot, while I study the laws pertaining to Jewish women.â€

Again, halacha is never pluralized, the laws pertaining to women would be aspects of halacha and are probably derived from the Talmud.

“Simply because it drives me crazy to be falsely labeled as either a Christian or a – chas v’shalom – Karaite.â€

Stop using motherfucking random Hebrew phrases. It’s an obnoxious as fuck affectation. And you believe in Christ, therefore you are a Christian. End of fucking story.

“We are simply two people practicing Orthodox Judaism while holding on to our belief in Yeshua as the Messiah.â€

This is an oxymoron.

“Our belief in him does not change our observance of the halachot in any way.â€

Except that you are violating the first commandment and second commandment by Jewish beliefs. But no big deal.

“It is offensive to me that my husband and I are seen as a threat to the Jewish community.â€

It’s offensive to me that you use my religion and the religion of my ancestors as a plaything. But you clearly don’t give a shit about that, so I don’t give a shit that your precious little feelings are hurt.

“There have been many reports of prominent rabbis or simply Orthodox Jews who believe that Yeshua was the Messiah, yet never bring their belief out into the open for fear of rejection and excommunication.â€

If they believe in Jesus, they aren’t Jews. Also, I call bullshit.

“Before coming to false conclusions based on a quick reading of my blog, please e-mail me so that I can answer any questions you may have regarding our beliefs.â€

I am not coming to false conclusion. I am reading exactly what you are saying and it is utterly preposterous from a Jewish perspective.

“The accusations and statement she put forth about my blog are both wrong and misleading.â€

No, they are entirely correct. But at least you’re being open about Jesus, now.

[pomology]

"Regardless of what you may call yourself, you do remain a Christian and not a Jew. If you don't like that, call yourself something else instead of appropriating the title of an already well-established group with established beliefs that are directly opposed to what you espouse."

"If you don't want to be called a Christian, that's fine; choose another word. But not Jewish. It is incredibly offensive. It ignores all the pain and suffering and death that Jews have suffered at the hands of "believers in Yeshua" throughout the ages, as well as ignoring basic tenants of Judaism accepted by Jew and non-Jew alike through the ages. They died precisely because they refused to believe in Jesus. And we call that a kiddush Hashem (sanctification of Hashem). I honestly don't think you understand how offensive this is, even though I know it has been said many times."

:clap: *standing ovation*

I think I am in love with Kochava.

[Sweetpea1]

I've just read todays post... .

A picture is the only way to go on this one.

[emmiedahl]

That bacon-flavored matzah... that is something I will carry in my heart so I always have an excuse to laugh.

The fact that Lina does not see the problem just shows how little she understands about Judaism. To think that TT prays every day that God is one when really he thinks that God is two. And the nighttime kippah? Wow. Good luck finding a real Jew who does that.

[GeoBQn]

Nobody's mentioned it yet, so I'll just note that Lina and Love appear to attend Beit Shalom in Austin. Beit Shalom's mission is to "create a strong Orthodox Jewish community in Central Texas that is centered on Torah and focused on Messiah." Their messiah, in case you didn't already guess, is "Yeshua of Nazareth."

The website lists "attending a 10-week course taught semi-annually by members of the congregation" as a requirement of membership. I suspect Lina and Love are taking one of those courses and claiming that it's an Orthodox conversion class.

I looked up the website for Beit Shalom. Here are some gems:

While our congregation is a direct result of the Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jewish movement, Beit Shalom is different from other Messianic congregations in a number of ways. Messianic Judaism is most often focused primarily on evangelism of and ministry to Jewish people by Jewish people. Non-Jewish participants in the Messianic Jewish movement play a secondary, supportive role.

No, Messianic Judaism focuses on evangelism to Jewish people by Christians pretending to be Jewish. And "Non-Jewish participants" are not playing a "secondary, supportive role." Many Messianic congregations are funded through the Southern Baptist Convention and other Christian evangelical groups.

Women may wear a head covering intended specifically for females if they choose.

In Orthodox synagogues, only married women wear head coverings.

Beit Shalom offers both modern andBiblical Hebrew. For those preparing for Bar/Bat Mitzvah, they will receive intensive Hebrew training for approximately a year (fees apply).

Even in Reform synagogues, children start learning to read Hebrew years before their bar/bat mitzvah ceremony. A year of intensive Hebrew before the ceremony sounds like either a setup to fail, or a sign that there isn't a whole lot of Hebrew in the service.

Beit Shalom extends member on an “invitation only†basis. Basic membership requirements are:

1Attending Shabbat services on a regular basis.

2Accepting some functional responsibility in the congregation (e.g. building maintenance, nursery,

Oneg, etc.).

3Donating (10%) of gross income to Beit Shalom.

4Attending a 10-week course taught semi-annually by members of the congregation.

5Finally, prospective members must be presented to the congregation. For someone transferring from

another congregation, a letter of transfer must be provided (or a reasonable excuse why one cannot

be obtained must be provided).

That all seems unusually stringent, especially letters of transfer.

Also noting that they link to First Fruits of Zion, the group TT is affiliated with. Words on this website that you would never see on one for an actual Jewish congregation: Fellowship, Elders, Good News, Disciples,

[jenny_islander]

Actually, the orthodox answer to, "So, do Christians believe that God is One or God is Three?" is "Yes."

But, yes, these kids are play-acting.

Question: Has there ever since Christendom became widespread been a congregation of people who were raised Jewish, decided that Jesus of Nazareth was in fact the Messiah, and then decided to figure out what it meant to be a Christian without embracing Christendom? Back in my less disillusioned days I thought that was what Messianic Jews actually were.

[emmiedahl]

I don't know of any widespread congregation in which that happened. I know a Jew who had that happen and I consider him Jewish. I'm not sure if he even believes that Jesus was the Messiah, maybe more like a prophet. Jesus did not fulfull the requirements for a Jewish Messiah, which is the key reason it is hard to convince a Jew that he was the real thing.

[helloemi]

If we get to pick how to define ourselves without any respect for the group involved, I would like to be Punjabi because the clothes are so pretty and the food is amazing. Oh, and a lesbian, because my lesbian relatives and friends are cool... so I can be one, even though I am married to a man and don't have female lovers. Right? And then I can post on the internets about how people are so homophobic and racist when they tell me I am not an Indian lesbian. You bigots!

[helloemi]

"He even has a nighttime kippah that he wears to bed."

I have never read something that screams "trying too hard" in my life. LOOK LOOK! See!!!! We're totally Jewish!

If they were truly Jewish or even happy with their hodge-podge beliefs, there would be no need to keep defending their beliefs like this, or what ever they are doing here.

[Soulhuntress]

Lina and Tony:

Insulting not one but TWO major religions in your LARP Fiddler on the Roof with a little bit of Jesus (hidden in the closet) is.Not.Cool. One or the other. Simple as that. And going into a communal religion trying to stealth convert its members: Epic fail.

[bea]

I just...I can't....they haven't CONVERTED to Orthodox Judaism from Christianity, therefore they are NOT JEWISH. And definitely not Orthodox.

She and TT are making up their own religion and calling it Orthodox Judaism Plus Jesus, and they seriously CANNOT SEE how this might be offensive to people who are actually Orthodox Jews. Or Jewish of any flavor. Or Christian. Or agnostic. Or whatever.

I hope they get wiser, or maybe just less stupid, as they get older. And like everyone else, I cannot WAIT for the marriage advice from a newlywed.

[pomology]

I just...I can't....they haven't CONVERTED to Orthodox Judaism from Christianity, therefore they are NOT JEWISH. And definitely not Orthodox.

She and TT are making up their own religion and calling it Orthodox Judaism Plus Jesus, and they seriously CANNOT SEE how this might be offensive to people who are actually Orthodox Jews. Or Jewish of any flavor. Or Christian. Or agnostic. Or whatever.

I hope they get wiser, or maybe just less stupid, as they get older. And like everyone else, I cannot WAIT for the marriage advice from a newlywed.

Well according to Mrs. TT, "We are converts in the process of implementing more Judaism into our lives with the goal of becoming full-fledged Jews."

I don't know why she thinks it's okay to call herself a convert when she hasn't converted and she doesn't understand you can't become full-fledged Jews while believing in the J-Man.

[Beeks]

Those LOLLinas gave me the best laugh I've had in a while - thank you! I even showed my husband, who has no idea who Lina is. I tried to explain it a bit and he said "wait, she wants to be Jewish, orthodox Jewish, but she believes in Jesus? I don't get it." Neither do we, honey.

[Ralar]

How dare you call her a Christian! She's a Jew who believes that Jesus is the Messiah! Not even close to the same thing, silly. Boy, some people...*walks away shaking head*

Just kidding. I totally agree with you

I just spewed diet coke all over my iPad!

[Beeks]

Have you seen Crazy Jewish Convert's reply to Lina's newest post? Very good.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

To quote Fight Club... "Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Love this quote! This is perfect for Lina & TT