Dillards 47: Tweeting Twit

[Pete Pickles]

26 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Just a note or two -

1. Jill and Derick were already getting to know each other when Jessa’s courtship was announced in early September 2013. It’s possible jealousy was a motivating factor, but it also could have simply been a coincidence. Both Jill and Jessa were at an age where many fundie women start to court and marry - with so many kids there’s bound to be some overlapping at times. 

2. I know this was more of a jokey aside, but Derick plays (or used to play) trumpet. The most recent post about it was a photo of Sam playing with a toy trumpet and they referred to him as a fourth generation trumpeter. 

Other than that, your post is certainly plausible and I greatly enjoyed the Mean Girls reference at the end.  

You’re right! He was in the OSU marching band at some point, I guess his freshman year when he wasn’t Pistol Pete. (Maybe he could be both at the same time. I know there are several different mascot actors each year.)

 As far as WE the television viewers know, Jill may well have been talking to Derick even before Jessa was getting to know Ben, or definitely very soon after. I’m still convinced the “official” title of being in a courtship second and having “officially” met her man in person after Jessa did played into some jealousy. After all, it would seem that Jill had sacrificed being popular among her siblings (Jessa and Jinger’s bond can certainly seem enviable!) to ensure she did everything according to the rules...and yet she wasn’t first to court. Where’s the justice?! And she made it a point to discuss in a TH about how “we won’t all court and get married in birth order just because there are so many of us.” In my mind, I imagine she continued that thought with, “...and ONLY because there are so many of us! Not because Jessa is more worthy of the first courtship than I am!”  Jill also just seems like a jealous type of person to me. Maybe I’m wrong. 

Congrats. You’re one of my fave posters here. And so are you, @singsingsing!

[Audrey2]

Welcome, @Pete Pickles! I'm glad you have decided to come out of lurkdom. I've enjoyed your posts and hope you stick around and post more. You have interesting and thoughtful insights.

[Carm_88]

I come in here and my thoughts are usually "Fuck off, Derick!" That being said, the sudden loss of his father had to be hard on him and yes, may have pushed him further into religion in hopes of finding reason. If it is mental health problems, it's not going to get better because of Jesus. If he's just an asshole, well he needs to stop that. Frankly, I don't care about Derick and Jill, they're both "adults" but Israel and Samuel don't deserve to grow up with Dad constantly lashing out and Mom being an anxious mess. 

[Pete Pickles]

12 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

Welcome, @Pete Pickles! I'm glad you have decided to come out of lurkdom. I've enjoyed your posts and hope you stick around and post more. You have interesting and thoughtful insights.

Thank you so much! I earned a minor in sociology and especially enjoyed studying how religion and families affect people. The duggars are my perfect storm and I’m SO FASCINATED. I often take my iPad into the bathtub and when my husband hears giggling from the bathroom, he knows I’m reading FJ.  We’ve both really enjoyed everyone’s clever and often hilarious posts over the years. I also admire how truly genuine most posters are. Your warm welcome drives that home. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

2 minutes ago, Pete Pickles said:

I often take my iPad into the bathtub...

Do you have a waterproof case, or are you just really, really careful? 

[JordynDarby5]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Just a note or two -

1. Jill and Derick were already getting to know each other when Jessa’s courtship was announced in early September 2013. It’s possible jealousy was a motivating factor, but it also could have simply been a coincidence. Both Jill and Jessa were at an age where many fundie women start to court and marry - with so many kids there’s bound to be some overlapping at times. 

2. I know this was more of a jokey aside, but Derick plays (or used to play) trumpet. The most recent post about it was a photo of Sam playing with a toy trumpet and they referred to him as a fourth generation trumpeter. 

Other than that, your post is certainly plausible and I greatly enjoyed the Mean Girls reference at the end.  

Also, Jessa and Ben were accidentally outed by someone in his family, I think his aunt. Had that happened who knows when they would have announced Jessa's courtship? I do think it would have been after Jill's courtship was announced or maybe later because of how much longer Jessa and Ben ended up courting.   

[Pete Pickles]

11 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Do you have a waterproof case, or are you just really, really careful? 

I have two year old twins...everything in my house is water proof, drop proof, spill proof, and shatter proof. 

[Beermeet]

I think Jill may be having Jinger envy.  With the nose ring , henna and pants.  If Derick disapproved, it would not happen.  Maybe they see Jinger and bonafide preacher Jeremy living more normal lives but with very similar beliefs and had a lightbulb moment?  

I also strongly feel Dericks demise started at dental surgery time.  Pain changes people; so does lots of pain pills.  The Josh thing clearly impacted them as well.  Derick seemed to be so dismissive of Jill's feeling in Scary Sintral America , annoyed even.  Too soon in a marriage for that, imho. Especially when Jill was really upset over the molestation coming out ( understandably) and scared being away from home in SSA.  It was hard to watch.  I always say, I don't particularly like Jill but I do feel for her.

 

 

[shock928]

Those were some thoughtful insights, I'm always interested in hearing derick theories beyond that he's just been a big a hole his entire life.

This will be long so feel free to skip over but this is my Jill/Derick theory. I think favoritism is such a huge factor in a family of 19 kids. 

For example in my family- my mom and her sister think the other one is the favorite. They were both very different growing up and my mom was very competitive and athletic. Her sister was more clumsy but thinner and struggled with finding friends so sought attention from boys instead. But if you ask either of them- they both think the other one was the favorite. Aside from the fact that things were pretty equal, but with different personalities were fostered in a different way. Example: "My parents always went to her basketball games." Or "yeah but mom always came to her side when she cried about being unpopular." Etc. even now that they are in their 50s it continues, even though their parents are in their elderly years and giving equal inheritance etc. It is crazy. The cycle continues with my mom - me and my brother - he is the one who has done everything right and been coddled and favored. But I have made peace with it. So if parents are unaware of it... It goes on for generations. Almost every family I've talked to - there is a perceived favorite, whether stated or not. 

Derrick theory:  Michelle always seemed aloof and cold, was always pregnant or caring for a newborn all throughout these kids lives. And with that many kids of course everyone was probably fighting for attention from Jim Bob as well. We think Jill was the golden child but my guess is that she felt Jessa or another sibling was. So Jill tried to step up and do everything she could to follow rules to a T. When Jill began having kids things started going south with her complicated childbirths. I suspect Jill has voiced to Derrick how she feels inadequate or that maybe growing up she wasn't valued or wasn't good enough as (whatever other sibling/s) because their parents never placed any value on the girls besides being housewives and broodmares. But ut oh- now things aren't going as planned. Jessa is set to have who knows how many more and she is more favored in public opinion and I suspect maybe (to Jill) favored in dad and moms opinion as well. 

Derick may be a lot of things, but I do think he cares for Jill. He has a lot of anger. I think it may stem from Jill's feelings of inadequacy. I think sh*t hit the fan when she had C-sections. I think she felt her whole worth was diminished. (Which is so sad.) but any doctor is going to tell them too many c sections poses a risk and endangers mom and babies lives. No other duggar daughters have had to face those realities yet except Jill. She could be having 2-5 kids and be done, watching Jessa go on to have 7 or more. Jill may think that Jessa had a prettier wedding dress, better wedding, people thought she was cuter pregnant, better looking couple. Comparatively Jill was said to be huge pregnant, not as pretty wedding dress, husband not so good looking, and by far more people don't like them. Jessa posts photos of her kids and people go crazy with cute comments, and Jill is more clumsy and posts weird photos of her kids that get negative attention. There could be a silent competition that J Bob and Michelle have unintended to happen, and that is: who can be the most like mom and dad and make the most babies and be the most Godly housewife. 

Back to Derrick- he is devastated and lashing out. He feels the only way he can try to regain any favor or recognition is becoming the most Godly he can and goes on rampage. He's angry that it's not fair that they played the rules and God didn't favor them with easy pregnancies and labors. Derrick lost his own dad and has now put J Bob on a pedestal he can never reach. I fear he will get angrier the more babies are born to Jill's siblings. I fear he is searching for favor for himself and Jill that cannot be attained by Jill's parents. ***I mean remember these people think pregnancies and easy labors are "Gods blessings." So what about when it isn't easy and things go wrong? (This is why placing all importance on having babies for God will make these women feel inadequate and in some cases worthless)***

Jill played the rules, went to do missionary work and was alone. Isolated, learning to be a mom. But she and Derrick thought they could gain favor by God and her parents doing "Gods work." But it didn't seem to work and she had another c section. Meanwhile Jessa will keep having more babies, and getting help at the compound. Say what you will but Jill had to face more challenges learning parenting in a foreign country with no help and saw that Jessa took like a natural and made being a mom look easy. And now Jill is getting a nose piercing and henna and wearing pants. She is lost at why she did things right and it didn't matter.

I have no doubt Derrick is lashing out. He may feel Jill had been slighted by God and her parents. He will keep being angry at the unfairness perceived until he makes peace that no matter what they do maybe there will always be a different favorite aside from themselves.

I could go on and on I have a lot of theories, lol.

[luv2laugh]

I think it was Derrick’s decision for Jill to wear pants and “look like the world”. After all, his mother wears pants. Jill was the most matronly and they still got kicked off the show.  Ben has always said Jessa can wear pants and he doesn’t kindness at all. Jessa hasn’t been caught dead in pants yet. Jessa is stubborn and so she wants to for some reason whereas jill is a huge people pleaser. 

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, Pete Pickles said:

I have two year old twins...everything in my house is water proof, drop proof, spill proof, and shatter proof. 

I should invest in that, I'm ridiculously clumsy at times!

[Dandruff]

15 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I'm surprised that TLC would even want Derick advertising for them seeing as he's a piece of crap person and all...

Maybe that's part of why he's doing it? 

I noticed that he's not suggesting people watch the new season - just older episodes that may include him and his family and some potential $s for them.

41 minutes ago, shock928 said:

Derick may be a lot of things, but I do think he cares for Jill. He has a lot of anger. I think it may stem from Jill's feelings of inadequacy. I think sh*t hit the fan when she had C-sections. I think she felt her whole worth was diminished. (Which is so sad.) but any doctor is going to tell them too many c sections poses a risk and endangers mom and babies lives.

I'm concerned that he might be angry at her.  He may have wanted a huge quiver (don't think adoption is going to happen) and - for all we know - had been encouraging Jill during labor with Israel to get medical attention sooner.  We also don't know whether the issues with Israel's delivery may have influenced whatever went on with Sam's.

[Palimpsest]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:43 PM, Georgiana said:

He almost certainly gets residuals for any re-airs or online stream of the show.  Next to nothing, sure, but it's likely he does get a check.  My friend was in the industry for a time, and he still gets checks for the work he did when it re-airs or gets streamed.  The checks are a bit of a joke, but they still come in!

By "in the industry" I assume you mean that your friend was an actor in a TV show and a SAG member.  Residuals were fought for by SAG, and are only relevant to members of SAG.  As a mere Reality TV performer Derrick almost certainly does not get residuals.  

The rules are very different for Reality TV shows.  TV networks love them because they are so cheap to produce.  They are produced, directed, and filmed by free-lancers who are not protected by unions.  http://gawker.com/the-grim-realities-of-reality-tv-workers-speak-1598101524

And Reality TV screws TV writers.  Even though Reality TV is "semi- scripted."  http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/17254/reality_tv_production_workers_win_collective_bargaining 

Those semi-scripted "real" people are not actors or SAG members by definition.  They come cheap.   All the Reality TV contracts that have been leaked (and there are huge penalties for disclosing them) pay a flat rate for filming.  No residuals.  No control over the storyline.  No control over the editing. Nothing.

Also worth repeating, unless those reality TV shows are filmed in CA, NY, or PA, which have (minimal) labor laws protecting children working in Reality TV, the minor children are not compensated at all for their parents exploiting them and sacrificing their privacy on TV.

[Beermeet]

On 12/17/2017 at 8:33 PM, singsingsing said:

I also wonder what was going on behind the scenes. We only see a fragment of these people's lives, after all, and who knows what Derick Dillard is actually like to deal with? Right around that time there were rumours that the Dillards had been fired by SOS Ministries. Who knows, maybe Derick is such a toxic personality that TLC just couldn't continue working with him.

Or maybe TLC showed no interest/refused to film things the Dillards were involved in (Derick's ridiculous "ministry" program stateside, Sam's birth if there were some illegal/dangerous shenanigans happening, Derick wanting to rant about transgender and gay people) and the Dillards refused to budge so TLC just went, "Fine, we won't be filming you at all, then."

We'll probably never know unless Derick decides to go on a tweet storm about it or something, and even then we'd have to take everything he said with a huge grain of salt.

This got me thinking.  Nothing deep or insightful, but, thinking nonetheless.  

How is it after all these years the content of that show has never deviated and shown more of their actual lives?  Whose choice was it to not show more church?  The Duggars claim ministry and what better way to share their love and convictions about Jesus than talking about it and  showing church stuff a bit more!  The main " ministry" message JB & M is for the wife to have sex even when she doesn't want to and make All the babies.  After courtship, severe ridiculous detrimental restrictions and a very brief engagement period of course.  Gothard is never mentioned, they never show any JTTH or Alert or conference scenes.  Doesn't the cult want some pub?  Why don't they?  Too. Many. Questions.  Idk why I bother.  

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

Oh good grief - the new Dillard Family Ministry blog update has been posted. It’s a horrific tale of their efforts to bring the gospel to Muslim post grad students at the university of Arkansas

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

How is it after all these years the content of that show has never deviated and shown more of their actual lives?  Whose choice was it to not show more church?

It is rather obvious that Discovery Health (TLC is a subsiduary) originally made the decision to hide the Gothard connection.  I suspect JB Duggar would have shouted it from the rooftops as part of his "ministry." The Duggars were portrayed (very deliberately) as just "Baptist" with a few quirks in the first specials.

Alert viewers, TWoP, and FJ eventually exposed the IBLP and Gothard connection.  

3 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Gothard is never mentioned, they never show any JTTH or Alert or conference scenes.

IIRC, JB was asked on camera about Gothard - after the scandal broke.   And they have shown the Duggars at Big Sandy without identifying it as IBLP (so family friendly!), ALERT was shown when Joseph went there, and the show mentioned Jana as a leader at JTTH.  It is just that most innocent viewers have no idea who Gothard is or the extent of the poison he preached.

The cult got publicity.  I'm sure IBLP liked being portrayed as "mainstream" and squeaky clean by the Duggars and TLC.

That is, until the shit hit the fan when Josh's molestations became public knowledge instead of rumor.  A big question is when did TLC know about the molestations (probably when Oprah cancelled) and why did they not pull the plug on 19KAC then. 

The answer to that is probably $$$.  TLC didn't want to cancel a money-making show until the molestations were plastered all over the news.

If you look at the Cynthia Jeub thread (I posted the link earlier) she also talks about Reality TV producers turning a blind eye to abuse in her family.  

It makes you sick.

 

   

[ViolaSebastian]

Ah, nice. They think Arabs and Muslims are synonymous with each other. 

[singsingsing]

As someone who lives in an area with a large Muslim population, I'm somewhat amazed by the sheer number of Muslims in the Dillards' sphere who are apparently champing at the bit to abandon their own religion and embrace fundamentalist Christianity. What are they doing, hypnotizing these people? Is Jill's banana bread that good?

[2manyKidzzz]

50 minutes ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

Oh good grief - the new Dillard Family Ministry blog update has been posted. It’s a horrific tale of their efforts to bring the gospel to Muslim post grad students at the university of Arkansas

So, I don’t know, but why would Muslim students get involved in this? 

[ViolaSebastian]

5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

As someone who lives in an area with a large Muslim population, I'm somewhat amazed by the sheer number of Muslims in the Dillards' sphere who are apparently champing at the bit to abandon their own religion and embrace fundamentalist Christianity. What are they doing, hypnotizing these people? Is Jill's banana bread that good?

I get the impression, at least from the encounter with the Ph.D. student, that he was being polite. The whole "dang, I would have loved to visit your church, but unfortunately I'm not going to be around long enough" just strikes me as something you say to politely get out of going. 

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I get the impression, at least from the encounter with the Ph.D. student, that he was being polite. The whole "dang, I would have loved to visit your church, but unfortunately I'm not going to be around long enough" just strikes me as something you say to politely get out of going. 

Definitely. I'm not saying Muslims never want to convert to Christianity, it happens, but in my experience it's not something they would take lightly at all. Especially very conservative, devout Muslims. I've actually never personally met (to my knowledge) a Muslim who converted to Christianity, whereas I've met several converts to Islam. Purely anecdotal, of course - it just adds to my skepticism.

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm the sort of person who is uber-polite, even when it's to my own detriment. About five years ago, a pair of LDS missionaries rang my doorbell and, like a fool, I answered it. A full-on half hour conversation about the LDS faith ensued, and I just could not bring myself to tell them to scram. It was terrible, but in the end I'd told them they could send me a Book of Mormon. Then (and now) I have less than zero interest in joining the LDS Church, but I'm sure if you asked those missionaries I was "open to the gospel" or what have you. I imagine the pressure to seem kind and polite is increased by being a visitor from another country and wanting to respect (real or perceived) culture norms. 

[Rachel333]

There are a lot of people from Muslim countries who really aren't that devout, they're just Muslim by default, basically. I've known a lot of Muslim international students like that. And having people pay attention to you when you're in a vulnerable position is powerful. I think a lot of converts to many groups convert more for social reasons than doctrinal reasons. There's a reason that Mormons have the highest conversion rates in areas like Provo -- conversion makes a lot more sense when everyone in your social circle is a Mormon.

I wonder how much Derick and Jill consider the consequences for people from some Muslim countries who de-convert from Islam. It is literally life-threatening for many people, which, going back to the example of Mormons, is why the LDS church has a policy against baptizing people from certain countries.

[singsingsing]

22 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I wonder how much Derick and Jill consider the consequences for people from some Muslim countries who de-convert from Islam. It is literally life-threatening for many people, which, going back to the example of Mormons, is why the LDS church has a policy against baptizing people from certain countries.

This is kind of what I'm getting at. There are definitely many Muslims from Muslim countries who are not devout and who might be super interested in converting to Christianity (or another religion, or no religion) - but doing that often has very significant and even dangerous social implications. If you're an international student from a Muslim country and you know for sure that you're going to be remaining in the U.S., and you either have a liberal family or are willing to cut ties with your family/old community, I can see the decision to convert being fairly easy. But if you're planning to move back home, or you want to keep your family/community ties, it's usually a different story.

[llg1234]

The blog post for anyone who doesn't want to give them additional page hits.

Spoiler

Merry Christmas! Thank you all so much for your prayers and support! 

We have had the privilege over the last few months to have many interactions with international students and their families! 

Derick was able to help organize "Thanksgiving dinner in an American home" between several host families from our church and students at the University of Arkansas! Jill's family opened their home to several students and their families, and we had nearly 20 guests from several different countries (mostly Muslim families)! Derick is currently working to arrange the same thing for Christmas with any students who will be in the area for the holidays. 

One of the Ph.D students from an Arab country brought her husband and child. Her husband seems very open to the gospel and even said if they were going to be in the area longer that he would've loved to visit our church! Jill's family's pastor was also able to talk with him a lot on Thanksgiving and even took him hunting the next morning! We are praying for him as Derick and others continue to befriend him that God will save his soul. Our goal is that, through these host home - international student matches, many relationships would begin that would extend beyond a one-time holiday experience.  

Jill and the boys have been able to be a part of a weekly Arab ladies English class, with Muslim ladies from several different countries (Iraq, Palestine, Saudi Arabia & Albania). Every week the ladies meet at a friend's home where they learn to make an American dish, eat together, then read a Bible story and discuss the English language, before hearing from a speaker on a topic of life (e.g. marriage, pregnancy, etc.).   

On Black Friday, we were doing some shopping and saw a of couple ladies wearing burkas, so Jill stopped to ask them where they were from and invited them to the Bible study. They came that week, and one of the ladies brought some traditional tea and treats to share. When asked if they had ever read a story from the Bible, both ladies said they had not. We are praying they will return to more Bible studies. One of the ladies said she and her husband would be excited to come to our home for dinner after her husband's finals are finished. 

Israel and Sam are doing well now after both having had colds the last couple weeks. We are enjoying being close to both of our families for this season and are grateful for Cross Church School of Ministry right here in our area that we get to serve with during the next year!  

Thank you to all of those who have prayed with us and given support toward our fundraising goal! We are so grateful! In addition to helping start the International Student Ministry through Cross Church's College ministry (C3), Derick has been working hard to keep up with class assignments through the School of Ministry and has finished two of the five-week seminary classes, totaling six credit hours (during the next year he will get about twenty-seven hours!). 


Prayer requests & praises: 
• Pray for continued opportunities to share our faith and for souls to be saved and disciples made! 
• Pray for our Arab friends.
• Pray for "Home for the Holidays" Christmas dinner in an American home—for God to bring the right students and host families. 
• Pray for a Japanese student who lost his mom and recently moved to the States. 
• Pray for continued health during flu season.
• Praise God for the connections that have been made with international students and their families!

The saving their souls bits really irritated me. I've never understood why their god seems so unwilling to accept someone who's lived a good life, but doesn't follow an exact set of beliefs and rules, into heaven. If we're all god's children, shouldn't his priority be having everyone be happy and healthy? You know, like any normal parent. Also, if god ~works in mysterious ways~ and if we're unable to fully comprehend his power, what makes someone like Derick think he has all the right ideas about religion and who is saved vs. who isn't?