Joy and Austin 17: Staying Off the Internet

[tabitha2]

Michelle has had only 2 home births that of the older twins and Jinger. Something of which I can’t recall convinced them HBs weren’t for them after that.

[VelociRapture]

9 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Michelle has had only 2 home births that of the older twins and Jinger. Something of which I can’t recall convinced them HBs weren’t for them after that.

No. Her homebirths were Jinger and Joseph. All the others were Hospital births. 

[eleanora3]

27 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

No. Her homebirths were Jinger and Joseph. All the others were Hospital births. 

Are you sure? I remember her saying Jill was her first home birth and was her easiest delivery and quickest recovery.

[SapphireSlytherin]

6 minutes ago, eleanora3 said:

Are you sure? I remember her saying Jill was her first home birth and was her easiest delivery and quickest recovery.

http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2010/03/home-births.html

[VelociRapture]

5 minutes ago, eleanora3 said:

Are you sure? I remember her saying Jill was her first home birth and was her easiest delivery and quickest recovery.

Positive.

http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2010/03/home-births.html?m=1

First five were Hospital births. Jinger and Joseph were both homebirths. They had wanted a homebirth for Josiah, but opted for a Hospital birth with him and the remaining kids instead. 

1 minute ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2010/03/home-births.html

Great minds think alike. 

[eleanora3]

@VelociRapture @SapphireSlytherin Ah. I figured out where I got that from (the episode of Israel's birth). Michelle said Jill was her first "natural" birth, not home birth.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

Why were the ER doctors shocked? I think I'm missing something. Were they surprised another MD thought to get to the ER fast and didn't assume it was nothing? 

I'm glad all was well with her and the baby.

Probably shocked that she didn't call an ambulance. An abruption is extremely painful and can cause massive blood loss, and can be fatal to both mom and baby if not treated extremely quickly .  

[RainbowSky]

2 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

@VelociRapture @SapphireSlytherin Ah. I figured out where I got that from (the episode of Israel's birth). Michelle said Jill was her first "natural" birth, not home birth.

One way to know is that the older twins are older than Jill, too...

[SassyPants]

On 1/12/2018 at 4:49 PM, CaricatureQualities said:

Why were the ER doctors shocked? I think I'm missing something. Were they surprised another MD thought to get to the ER fast and didn't assume it was nothing? 

I'm glad all was well with her and the baby.

Well, medical people are often times resistant to needing medical care, but I think it was just the shock of a 30 YO colleague being in such horrible shape when she had worked the shift before-

[PVMom]

On 1/11/2018 at 5:29 PM, RubyRei said:

Honestly, this is kind of rude and not really your place to judge. 

What?! RubyRel?   WTH.   It is of course my place to judge, that's what we do here on FreeJinger.    What are you doing on this board deciding what can be judged about Duggars and what can't?!   WTH.

This board is all about noticing every detail and judging about their lifestyle, their choices, every little literal fact.    Saying that Joy has packed on the pounds is rude?!  Here on FreeJinger?!   Who the hell are you?    It's a fact, do you have eyeballs RubyRei?  

We judge here RubyRei.   If you think differently you are in the wrong place.    

[singsingsing]

8 minutes ago, PVMom said:

What?! RubyRel?   WTH.   It is of course my place to judge, that's what we do here on FreeJinger.    What are you doing on this board deciding what can be judged about Duggars and what can't?!   WTH.

This board is all about noticing every detail and judging about their lifestyle, their choices, every little literal fact.    Saying that Joy has packed on the pounds is rude?!  Here on FreeJinger?!   Who the hell are you?    It's a fact, do you have eyeballs RubyRei?  

We judge here RubyRei.   If you think differently you are in the wrong place.    

You might want to take a step back and reconsider before you jump down anyone's throat. This board is not about "noticing every detail and judging ... every little literal fact." Since you seem to consider yourself an expert on FJ culture, you should know that making rude, weird, or snarky comments about a woman's body or weight is generally frowned upon here and will earn you a lot of blowback. You can say it if you want to, but be prepared for people to disagree with you and call you out on it. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

30 minutes ago, PVMom said:

This board is all about noticing every detail and judging about their lifestyle, their choices, every little literal fact.    Saying that Joy has packed on the pounds is rude?!  Here on FreeJinger?!   Who the hell are you?    It's a fact, do you have eyeballs RubyRei?  

It is?  I have never made a post judging anyone's weight, so what am I doing here?

For someone who posts like an SME on what FJ is and what we're all about you seemed to have missed the cultural expectation of limiting the BEC and keeping the majority of the criticism to substantial topics like their dangerous beliefs and practices.  

In fact if I were to be rude I'd wonder about the eyeballs of anyone who could spend any time on FJ and think there is any kind of tacit agreement that shaming people on their looks isn't going to result in pushback.  Good thing I'm not rude.

 

[Glasgowghirl]

Body shaming anyone is wrong, fundie or not. Joy is a young woman who is pregnant and even if she has over indulged during in her pregnancy doesn't give anyone the right to abuse her.

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, PVMom said:

What?! RubyRel?   WTH.   It is of course my place to judge, that's what we do here on FreeJinger.    What are you doing on this board deciding what can be judged about Duggars and what can't?!   WTH.

This board is all about noticing every detail and judging about their lifestyle, their choices, every little literal fact.    Saying that Joy has packed on the pounds is rude?!  Here on FreeJinger?!   Who the hell are you?    It's a fact, do you have eyeballs RubyRei?  

We judge here RubyRei.   If you think differently you are in the wrong place.    

Might I suggest that you consider reading the rules, guidelines and about us? This is most definitely NOT what FJ is about, and is generally frowned upon in our board culture. We are here to snark on their behaviour and beliefs, not their appearance.

Related, commenting on the weight of a pregnant woman is gross. I have no idea if she has or has not gained weight and frankly give zero fucks if she has, but commenting on it is gross, even more gross than fat shaming in general which I also hate. 

Tl;dr, you don’t even go here if this is what you think. 

[AtlanticTug]

I think it depends on the context a bit. Fat/pregnant shaming in itself is pretty low, but questions about the nature of their prenatal care (which could result in too much weight gain, potentially unknown gestational diabetes, etc) I think are fair game. Especially given that the second generation of Duggars hasn't gone for hospital births like their mother did and tends to have very large for gestational age babies.

Jill has had two complicated deliveries with two way larger than average babies. We still don't know what happened with/to Samuel and probably won't. She also seems to rely on her own perceived midwifery "skills" which have resulted in poor decision making. But having two almost-10 lb babies for a woman that small with a small frame and a lanky/thin husband does make me wonder what her blood glucose numbers were in the third trimester.

Jessa had a scary hemorrhage the first time around and elected to do basically nothing different the second. Henry was considerably smaller than Spurge though and I think she has made enough comments about her body and weight gain that she was more vigilant with pregnancy #2. Whether because she got medical advice or on her own, it probably did serve her well and made for an easier delivery.

I don't really care what Joy looks like or what she eats, that's her business, but it is unclear to me whether she has been any smarter than her sisters when it comes to prenatal care and whether she has had the glucose tolerance test done. Gestational diabetes is actually very highly correlated with high/inappropriate weight gain in the first trimester, which most people are not aware of, and that makes me concerned in her instance. From my own experience as an insulin-dependent diabetic who sits in the diabetic clinic weekly during pregnancy with mostly gestational-diabetes women, my endocrinologist says the biggest problem tend to be very young mothers who assume that they, by virtue of their age are fine, they don't need the extra scans or medical tests, as if being 20 or 25 is somehow the antidote to pregnancy and delivery complications. Plus the Duggars are generally ignorant anyway.

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, PVMom said:

What?! RubyRel?   WTH.   It is of course my place to judge, that's what we do here on FreeJinger.    What are you doing on this board deciding what can be judged about Duggars and what can't?!   WTH.

This board is all about noticing every detail and judging about their lifestyle, their choices, every little literal fact.    Saying that Joy has packed on the pounds is rude?!  Here on FreeJinger?!   Who the hell are you?    It's a fact, do you have eyeballs RubyRei?  

We judge here RubyRei.   If you think differently you are in the wrong place.    

You have been here, what, 5 minutes? We don't fat shame here and we certainly don't fat shame pregnant women. Who the hell are YOU?

[Destiny]

7 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I think it depends on the context a bit. Fat/pregnant shaming in itself is pretty low, but questions about the nature of their prenatal care (which could result in too much weight gain, potentially unknown gestational diabetes, etc) I think are fair game. Especially given that the second generation of Duggars hasn't gone for hospital births like their mother did and tends to have very large for gestational age babies.

Jill has had two complicated deliveries with two way larger than average babies. We still don't know what happened with/to Samuel and probably won't. She also seems to rely on her own perceived midwifery "skills" which have resulted in poor decision making. But having two almost-10 lb babies for a woman that small with a small frame and a lanky/thin husband does make me wonder what her blood glucose numbers were in the third trimester.

Jessa had a scary hemorrhage the first time around and elected to do basically nothing different the second. Henry was considerably smaller than Spurge though and I think she has made enough comments about her body and weight gain that she was more vigilant with pregnancy #2. Whether because she got medical advice or on her own, it probably did serve her well and made for an easier delivery.

I don't really care what Joy looks like or what she eats, that's her business, but it is unclear to me whether she has been any smarter than her sisters when it comes to prenatal care and whether she has had the glucose tolerance test done. Gestational diabetes is actually very highly correlated with high/inappropriate weight gain in the first trimester, which most people are not aware of, and that makes me concerned in her instance. From my own experience as an insulin-dependent diabetic who sits in the diabetic clinic weekly during pregnancy with mostly gestational-diabetes women, my endocrinologist says the biggest problem tend to be very young mothers who assume that they, by virtue of their age are fine, they don't need the extra scans or medical tests, as if being 20 or 25 is somehow the antidote to pregnancy and delivery complications. Plus the Duggars are generally ignorant anyway.

I actually don’t disagree with you on any of this. This is discussing her beliefs and the possible effects on her, not saying wow, she’s packed on the pounds. 

I hope they are getting decent medical care, but the examples from her older sisters leads me to believe that it might not be a thing. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

Fat/pregnant shaming in itself is pretty low, but questions about the nature of their prenatal care (which could result in too much weight gain, potentially unknown gestational diabetes, etc) I think are fair game.

These responses are to fatshaming and the assertion that FJ is all about such criticism.

discussions on prenatal care are fine, but speculating on gestational diabetes based on weight gain in pregnancy is a huge stretch.

Yes, it's a factor...but the vast majority of women who gain more weight than people would like during pregnancy don't have diabetes gestational or otherwise.  It's A factor, but absent others it's like seeing a guy with acne and assuming he does steroids with no other information.  Specious speculation on the medical issues of others based on what you can see in a pic on the internet is rude at best and harmful at worst.

I hemmoraged so badly with my daughter I coded and had I not been in the hospital I would have died.  I was not diabetic, nor did I gain excessive weight.

I gained between 24 and 29 lbs with each child during pregnancy and lost about 25 within the first few weeks....including my 10 lb 8 oz baby.   Who was not the one I hemorrhaged having.  

My mom was tall and slender and always about 10 lbs underweight despite always trying to gain and she was an over 10lb baby....why are you drawing correlations between baby size and how skinny their parents are as adults.

Correlation =/= causation based on internet observation for any of this.  I do agree with you that it's about context, and that prenatal care if a valid issue to discuss....as long as people don't veer into internet diagnosing or speculating on potential diagnosis based on nothing but how they look.

 

[Destiny]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

These responses are to fatshaming and the assertion that FJ is all about such criticism.

discussions on prenatal care are fine, but speculating on gestational diabetes based on weight gain in pregnancy is a huge stretch.

Yes, it's a factor...but the vast majority of women who gain more weight than people would like during pregnancy don't have diabetes gestational or otherwise.  It's A factor, but absent others it's like seeing a guy with acne and assuming he does steroids with no other information.  Specious speculation on the medical issues of others based on what you can see in a pic on the internet is rude at best and harmful at worst.

I hemmoraged so badly with my daughter I coded and had I not been in the hospital I would have died.  I was not diabetic, nor did I gain excessive weight.

I gained between 24 and 29 lbs with each child during pregnancy and lost about 25 within the first few weeks....including my 10 lb 8 oz baby.   Who was not the one I hemorrhaged having.  

My mom was tall and slender and always about 10 lbs underweight despite always trying to gain and she was an over 10lb baby....why are you drawing correlations between baby size and how skinny their parents are as adults.

Correlation =/= causation based on internet observation for any of this.  I do agree with you that it's about context, and that prenatal care if a valid issue to discuss....as long as people don't veer into internet diagnosing or speculating on potential diagnosis based on nothing but how they look.

 

Wherein buffy says what i was trying to better, as usual. I don’t know why I bother posting sometimes B <3 (minus the bits about own pregnancy and family obvs. I’ve never been pregnant, nor do i plan to be).

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Destiny said:

(minus the bits about own pregnancy and family obvs

I only chose to have a mother and children so I could use them as anecdata on FJ.

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, PVMom said:

What?! RubyRel?   WTH.   It is of course my place to judge, that's what we do here on FreeJinger.    What are you doing on this board deciding what can be judged about Duggars and what can't?!   WTH.

This board is all about noticing every detail and judging about their lifestyle, their choices, every little literal fact.    Saying that Joy has packed on the pounds is rude?!  Here on FreeJinger?!   Who the hell are you?    It's a fact, do you have eyeballs RubyRei?  

We judge here RubyRei.   If you think differently you are in the wrong place.    

You know what, no. Just no. You’re completely wrong about everything you just said. We do SNARK here, not BEC (Bitch Eating Crackers) commentary. If all you have to add to the conversation is, “Lol! Joy is so fat now that she’s pregnant!” then just shut the fuck up because that shit is most certainly NOT tolerated here.

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It is?  I have never made a post judging anyone's weight, so what am I doing here?

For someone who posts like an SME on what FJ is and what we're all about you seemed to have missed the cultural expectation of limiting the BEC and keeping the majority of the criticism to substantial topics like their dangerous beliefs and practices.  

In fact if I were to be rude I'd wonder about the eyeballs of anyone who could spend any time on FJ and think there is any kind of tacit agreement that shaming people on their looks isn't going to result in pushback.  Good thing I'm not rude.

 

That’s ok. I’m rude enough for the both of us today. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You have been here, what, 5 minutes? We don't fat shame here and we certainly don't fat shame pregnant women. Who the hell are YOU?

Nope.  That poster has been a member for almost 11 months.  Sad to think that anyone could get that impression from reading FJ for that long.

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

speculating on gestational diabetes based on weight gain in pregnancy is a huge stretch.

Agree.  A very big stretch.  I don't think the person you quoted was guilty of doing this, but after the fact justifications for obvious BEC can be as distasteful as BEC itself.  It's like saying, "Yes, I did call someone a pizza face.  I only meant that it is terrible that mommy and daddy don't buy them some Proactive.  It was fair game because I was being educational."  Bullshit.

44 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

That’s ok. I’m rude enough for the both of us today.

Dear Rufus!  Whatever happened to sweet?  You must have been channeling me because you took the words right off my keyboard. 

[Rachel333]

I'm definitely not a fan of commenting on anyone's weight. I didn't like it either when a bunch of members were saying some of the girls were too thin. It's just unnecessary.

[Palimpsest]

On 1/12/2018 at 1:05 PM, yeahtotally said:

I just feel like she’s similar to Jinger in the sense that she doesn’t want the “mess” of a home birth.

Where did Jinger say she didn't want a home birth?

[singsingsing]

4 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Where did Jinger say she didn't want a home birth?

It was in the 'after show' that aired back in the summer. I can't remember exactly what she said, but Jinger expressed the sentiment that she'd prefer not to go the all-natural-homebirth route, and Jessa enthusiastically encouraged her to give birth in a hospital and have drugs/an epidural if that's what she wanted. That was also the conversation where Jana expressed that she would also prefer something closer to a hospital setting when giving birth.