Joy and Austin 17: Staying Off the Internet

[ladybug15]

16 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

Is it? If it is, that's relatively new; I had a baby registry there in 2016 and it didn't happen then.

Question: What method? The cod liver oil or is there something else I'm not aware of?

I assume the castor oil, washing floors and windows and sex?. I never heard of cod liver oil but castor oil is abundant on pregnancy forums

[VelociRapture]

21 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

Is it? If it is, that's relatively new; I had a baby registry there in 2016 and it didn't happen then.

Question: What method? The cod liver oil or is there something else I'm not aware of?

It was the castor oil. From what I know it’s normally used to help people with constipation by stimulating the bowels (I think.) Using castor oil during pregnancy can help speed labor up, but it also runs the risk of stimulating the baby’s bowels and causing them to pass meconium in the womb. Baby can accidentally inhale or ingest it in the birth canal, which can be very dangerous.  

(I’m pretty sure I have this right, but I’m in no way an expert. We have some Nurses, Doctors, and posters who know a lot about birth on here who may be able to confirm or correct me.)

9 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

I'm going to take the middle road here. We've seen some basic medical care (but mostly related to maintaining their 'countenance') and I would bet Jessa at least uses a pediatrician for the boys. 

But when it comes to legitimate  prenatal care? We have no reason to believe Jill or Jessa had any.  We saw Jill do her own cutesy little "checkup" last season on CO.  We know one, if not both, of Jill's births was badly handled. Jessa was rushed to the hospital thankfully but multiple midwife organizations in the area were quick to distance themselves from the delivery because I believe Teresa Fedosky is only a doula, not a licensed midwife. We can HOPE  Joy is getting care from someone other than her buddy leader Jill but so far no reason other than distance would give us reason to think otherwise. I believe Jeremy is going to insist on a licensed midwife or a regular OB for Jinger. Best we can say is we'll see, and pray for safe deliveries for all of them.

We’ve also seen Israel going to an actual Dentist as well. I think Derick or Jill shared a photo via Instagram.

ETA: Here’s the photo I was thinking of:

I don’t know if any of them bring their kids to the Pediatrician. I would hope they do though. 

[sta_sha]

Not sure if it’s added to all registries on Amazon, but a year of Prime would be a wonderful gift to new parents. We have Prime and it has saved our lives since bringing the boys home. In fact I think it will be my go to gift for new parents from now on. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

1 hour ago, ladybug15 said:

I assume the castor oil, washing floors and windows and sex?. I never heard of cod liver oil but castor oil is abundant on pregnancy forums

Castor oil, not cod liver! Not sure where that came from...

Yeah, that's... not a good idea, especially that pregnant when meconium's a risk anyway.

[yeahtotally]

Am I the only one who thinks that Joy may go for a hospital birth? I just feel like she’s similar to Jinger in the sense that she doesn’t want the “mess” of a home birth. I don’t believe she was present for Jill or Jessa’s births (please correct me if I’m wrong). She was old enough to remember Michelle giving birth in the hospital, and maybe, just maybe she doesn’t want to follow in Jill’s footsteps and go the 48 hr labor/ emergency C-section route. Am I giving her too much credit? 

[Beermeet]

3 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

@PVMom They do get the basic, bare bones medical health care. That's true. They also go to the dentist. However, Anna had two home births while in Arkansas (Mackynzie and Michael), Jill has attempted two home births (We think. Not sure about Samuel), and Jessa has had two home births. Jill actually laboured at home for days and tried an unsafe method to get Israel out. Jessa hemorrhaged badly after Spurgeon's birth and if you need proof of how bad it likely was, watch Ben's reaction to Henry's birth.  

As for Joy, that was rude and uncalled for. There's no need to make any comments about weight, especially if that person is pregnant. There is absolutely no need to make you assessments on her. 

What did Jill try with Isreal?  I don't remember.   Also, do you know where I can see Henry's birth with Ben being scared (and rightfully so)?  Haven't been keeping up on Duggars like I used to.  Thanks!

Also,  wtf is "growing into her 8 month pregnant body" even supposed to mean?  Something rude, I'm sure.   Of all the things to discuss here, pregnant shaming ain't one girl!

[VelociRapture]

32 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

What did Jill try with Isreal?  I don't remember.   Also, do you know where I can see Henry's birth with Ben being scared (and rightfully so)?  Haven't been keeping up on Duggars like I used to.  Thanks!

Also,  wtf is "growing into her 8 month pregnant body" even supposed to mean?  Something rude, I'm sure.   Of all the things to discuss here, pregnant shaming ain't one girl!

One of the issues with Izzy’s birth (Jill taking castor oil) was mentioned earlier on this page, so I won’t repeat it here. 

But here’s a People article that came out right after his birth special was aired back in May 2015. It may help explain a bit:

http://people.com/tv/19-kids-and-counting-jills-special-delivery-recap-israel-david-dillard-born/

As for Henry’s birth, I don’t know where you can view that. I will say his reaction was pretty panicked and nervous. He was holding his newborn, trying very hard to keep it together, and Jana was doing her best to calm him down. He was clearly extremely scared that Jessa would experience another hemorrhage and this is one of the few times I’ve felt a lot of sympathy for a Duggar or Duggar in-law. 

ETA: This article didn’t mention it, but Jill did state that she took castor oil in other articles closer to the time he was born.

Also, count me in on being disgusted by the body snark. I don’t care if someone is or is not pregnant - making BEC comments about weight or body type is gross and has no place here. 

[justoneoftwo]

I will add that basic health care (which they seem to get) is different than pre natal care.  Given their attitudes towards birth (home birth, statements that its the natural thing to do, and so on) they seem to fall into the camp that birth is natural, not an illness and therefore (somehow) doctors shouldn't be needed.  I think one of them said they didn't want to do some normal tests because they wouldn't abort anyway, all of this shows they don't do pre natal care, and amazingly it doesn't mean they don't see doctors for other reasons.  

I know some non funds who have this attitude towards birth.

[halcionne]

Where are Joy and Austin living? I just learned that the Duggars are in Australia but there are still Duggar planes flying around and Austin has his pilot's license. So I'm wondering if he's doing any of the flying I see today.

[VelociRapture]

@BeermeetSorry for multiple posts, but here’s a second article about the birth special that does mention Castor Oil:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/jill-duggars-emergency-c-section-documented-on-19-kids-and-counting-201565/amp/

And a third article, this one mentioning she tested positive for type B Strep and was on an antibiotic IV during labor (which is actually the right call when you test positive or go into premature labor prior to being tested - I’m pretty sure I had antibiotics during labor because my daughter was born at 34 weeks):

https://www.google.com/amp/m.eonline.com/amp/news/646441/jill-duggar-labored-for-70-hours-before-baby-israel-was-delivered-via-emergency-c-section-all-the-details

So, to sum up:

- 70 hours of labor

- Her water broke at the start and she didn’t inform her birth team for about 20 hours (if I’m reading it right - this birth and the articles about it were pretty confusing) 

- Castor oil

- Meconium

- They missed that Izzy was breech until the Doctors pointed it out 

Those are the big ones I saw or remembering seeing. 

[Beermeet]

Thank you so much @VelociRapture!  I was just reading the last article.  This:

"Forty-eight hours into her labor, Jill noticed that her baby was in fetal distress. “It was more mild,” said Jill, “so it was like, ‘Okay, he’s not doing too well but it’s not like, emergency at this point.’ ” However, at that far into her labor, she still wasn’t able to “get things going,” so they decided that it would be “a good time to get to the hospital.”

There, at 50 hours into her labor, she was told that she and the baby were fine and that they would continue to let her labor. At this point, they had gone from their original birth plan to their non-emergency hospital plan"

Um......Jill is just way too chill about it all.  Brainwashed.  I'm remembering now.  Off to read the next article.  I'm also watching "Jin Jones: what happened" on Reelz right now.  I need a Disney movie stat!  Fundie overload.  O.O

[justoneoftwo]

2 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Thank you so much @VelociRapture!  I was just reading the last article.  This:

"Forty-eight hours into her labor, Jill noticed that her baby was in fetal distress. “It was more mild,” said Jill, “so it was like, ‘Okay, he’s not doing too well but it’s not like, emergency at this point.’ ” However, at that far into her labor, she still wasn’t able to “get things going,” so they decided that it would be “a good time to get to the hospital.”

There, at 50 hours into her labor, she was told that she and the baby were fine and that they would continue to let her labor. At this point, they had gone from their original birth plan to their non-emergency hospital plan"

Um......Jill is just way too chill about it all.  Brainwashed.  I'm remembering now.  Off to read the next article.  I'm also watching "Jin Jones: what happened" on Reelz right now.  I need a Disney movie stat!  Fundie overload.  O.O

Its so strange how chill she was about distress.  When I was in labor they said LOs heart beat was going down or something and asked if I was okay with forceps, I was annoyed that they even stopped to give me the list of risks (at the time, he came out while they were opening the sterile thing for the forceps so it was all good).  I was in no way like, oh he isn't doing too well . . . who does that?

[VBOY9977]

22 minutes ago, halcionne said:

Where are Joy and Austin living? I just learned that the Duggars are in Australia but there are still Duggar planes flying around and Austin has his pilot's license. So I'm wondering if he's doing any of the flying I see today.

They live in Elkins, Arkansas

[Beermeet]

1 minute ago, VBOY9977 said:

They live in Elkins, Arkansas

Austin bought and they renovated the house themselves.  Joy was very happy she was the first married to own their very own home.  I'd be too.  Props on that.  Smart move on Austins part.  

[VelociRapture]

35 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Its so strange how chill she was about distress.  When I was in labor they said LOs heart beat was going down or something and asked if I was okay with forceps, I was annoyed that they even stopped to give me the list of risks (at the time, he came out while they were opening the sterile thing for the forceps so it was all good).  I was in no way like, oh he isn't doing too well . . . who does that?

To be fair, this was an article discussing it after the fact. It’s possible her actual reaction was different in the moment. I didn’t watch the episode, so I wouldn’t know for sure - I do know it was heavily edited and didn’t reveal much about what really happened. 

And some people do react more calmly than others in very stressful situations. It really just depends on personality. If she actually was calm in the moment, then it could be because Jill had attended a ton of births prior to Izzy’s. 

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, VelociRapture said:

To be fair, this was an article discussing it after the fact. It’s possible her actual reaction was different in the moment. I didn’t watch the episode, so I wouldn’t know for sure - I do know it was heavily edited and didn’t reveal much about what really happened. 

And some people do react more calmly than others in very stressful situations. It really just depends on personality. If she actually was calm in the moment, then it could be because Jill had attended a ton of births prior to Izzy’s. 

I'm sure that the calm was related to her having more experience.  It just seems so strange to me personally.  It also could relate to how she doesn't present herself well for the public, she doesn't seem to realize that people might not react well to things.  This is potentially another example, she thinks she is being calm and professional or like it was not a big deal because she has seen so many births, but reading it, it comes off as off and cold.

[SassyPants]

57 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Its so strange how chill she was about distress.  When I was in labor they said LOs heart beat was going down or something and asked if I was okay with forceps, I was annoyed that they even stopped to give me the list of risks (at the time, he came out while they were opening the sterile thing for the forceps so it was all good).  I was in no way like, oh he isn't doing too well . . . who does that?

I remember when they asked me  (a long term NICU nurse at the time) if I was ok when they were whisking me off for a crash C-section for fetal distress. I literally barked, I am but my baby ISN'T, so let's get the show on the road!

[Jinder Roles]

3 hours ago, yeahtotally said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Joy may go for a hospital birth? I just feel like she’s similar to Jinger in the sense that she doesn’t want the “mess” of a home birth. I don’t believe she was present for Jill or Jessa’s births (please correct me if I’m wrong). She was old enough to remember Michelle giving birth in the hospital, and maybe, just maybe she doesn’t want to follow in Jill’s footsteps and go the 48 hr labor/ emergency C-section route. Am I giving her too much credit? 

I see Joy as the opposite of what you've described. Joy can be snarky at times but she continues to be very traditional (in the Duggar sense). Also, Jill was her sister-mom and her best friend so a lot of the inaccurate conceptions of home birth have likely rubbed off on her. 

I see Joy as someone who has drank the Kool-aid entirely and wants her child's life to be a recreation of how she was raised. Although, she does take her cues from Austin like a proper helpmeet, so if he is more pro-hospital, he might change her mind. 

This is all speculation of course. I hope Joy goes to a hospital. Or at least, that she has an uneventful birth if it's a home birth. 

[CaricatureQualities]

When my friend recently had her first baby and there were some minor complications and I think he was in the NICU for 2 days, one this she expressed to me was how bizarre it was for her to be in a situation where she had to somewhat give up control because she was overwhelmed and knew she didn't have all the knowledge she needed on her own in that situation and that she was so glad to be surrounded by professionals who did know.

I think Jill is (was) overconfident in her birthing expertise and it contributes to her laid back attitude regarding birthing.  Yep she knows some stuff but look at all the mistakes noted in this thread that could have been caught. I remember Michelle saying how she thought Jill would be overthinking or worried about more things because of all her knowledge of what could happen like she was a nurse or something.

3 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

I see Joy as the opposite of what you've described. Joy can be snarky at times but she continues to be very traditional (in the Duggar sense). Also, Jill was her sister-mom and her best friend so a lot of the inaccurate conceptions of home birth have likely rubbed off on her. 

I see Joy as someone who has drank the Kool-aid entirely and wants her child's life to be a recreation of how she was raised. Although, she does take her cues from Austin like a proper helpmeet, so if he is more pro-hospital, he might change her mind. 

This is all speculation of course. I hope Joy goes to a hospital. Or at least, that she has an uneventful birth if it's a home birth. 

Yes! That was what I was thinking and was going to try to post but this is it! I think it's a safe bet that Jinger is going to have her kid in a hospital and not be filmed but Joy I don\t know. I think she  will turn out to be the biggest adherent of her parents convictions and that if anything her and Austin might take them a step further. 

[justoneoftwo]

10 minutes ago, CaricatureQualities said:

I remember Michelle saying how she thought Jill would be overthinking or worried about more things because of all her knowledge of what could happen like she was a nurse or something.

 

Interestingly many medical professionals assume nothing is wrong even when they should know better when dealing with family.  I'm not sure why but in my experience thats more likely then the reverse.  

[CaricatureQualities]

3 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Interestingly many medical professionals assume nothing is wrong even when they should know better when dealing with family.  I'm not sure why but in my experience thats more likely then the reverse.  

I suppose it could go either way depending on the person and what role in the medical profession they play (doctor or nurse, emt etc etc) Either way isn't that why people aren't supposed to practice medicine on themselves or their own family?  In any even Jill isn't a medical anything really but I think she got used to being treated like one in her family circle. 

[SassyPants]

Recently, my niece, who is in her first year of being a medical attending, had a baby. She woke up in the middle of the night in a pool of blood at 36 weeks gestation. Her husband was away on a business trip. Luckily, her mom was visiting and a friend was near by to attend to her her older child. She got herself to the ER, PDQ and had her baby  via a c-section quickly thereafter. All was well. She said the ER docs were shocked to see a fellow MD strolling in with a placental abruption. She was very, very lucky.

[Fun Undies]

6 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

-snip - I don’t know if any of them bring their kids to the Pediatrician. I would hope they do though. 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought we saw Anna bring her kids to the pedi (could sworn there was a "baby checkup" episode on the previous show).  Then again, this would have been YEARS ago, so my memory could be faulty.  Also, JimBob and Michelle have taken the kids in just fine - and Michelle had more hospital births than home births (or am I misremembering? ).  Anyways, I'm thinking if any of them are anti-pedi (and we really don't know), I don't think it would be because of their upbringing.  Though to tbh, *if* they do avoid pediatricians - and it has nothing to do with their fundie background - then I really have no idea why they would avoid them now ?

^ hope that makes sense, I'm a little under the weather from the latest wind chill in MN

[Carm_88]

4 hours ago, Beermeet said:

What did Jill try with Isreal?  I don't remember.   Also, do you know where I can see Henry's birth with Ben being scared (and rightfully so)?  Haven't been keeping up on Duggars like I used to.  Thanks!

No idea about Henry's birth episode. Sorry! 

[CaricatureQualities]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

She said the ER docs were shocked to see a fellow MD strolling in with a placental abruption. She was very, very lucky.

Why were the ER doctors shocked? I think I'm missing something. Were they surprised another MD thought to get to the ER fast and didn't assume it was nothing? 

I'm glad all was well with her and the baby.