Lori Alexander 35: Closing Windows Because of the Fires

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

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Did anyone notice that Alyssa had an Instagram pic of her, her sister, and the 2 sils?  It was there, and now it's gone.  

Wonder which one of them asked for it to be deleted?

 

Yes. 

[Koala]

Here is another comment from Ken, that seems to contradict Lori's post today:

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I do not believe that there is anything godly about spankings, and if it is not clear defiance by a child, most offenses can be handled in other ways.

If that's what Ken believes, then why would Lori contradict him?  After all, he is her "head".  <---God that makes me want to gag...

Ken also addressed that when he was here:

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Two issues were mentioned above with which Lori and I do not have complete agreement. Is spanking the only way, and does God demand it? I say no, she would lean towards yes, but won't come out and fully say it to me.

Umm, hasn't Lori asserted that if you disagree with your husband, you should just decide to agree with him?  How is making blog posts contrary to what he believes, submissive?

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Could we have gotten the same without the strap... I say very possibly, and Lori would say no. 

According to Lori, it shouldn't matter what she would say.  If Ken says they could have raised good children without a leather strap, that's all that should matter.

Ken continues:

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I sometimes encourage her to be more balanced, but she says, "my ministry is not to men. If you want to teach men, start your own blog.

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can I be frank enough to say that she does not always do what I think is best

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My wife is not submitting to me on some issues I would like to see changed or modified on her blog. Are you shocked???

Big surprise.  The Submissive Mentor isn't submissive at all.

All of that said, Ken IS NOT as rational as he would like to come across.  As his conversation with us continued, he kind of came unraveled:

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Can we not agree that somewhere between time outs and stoning one's child there can be many other things that should be done, including spankings or perhaps a beating or two as a teenager to save the child from a rebellious future, prison or death?

In 2016 he wrote:

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There may be some teens that deserve a good beating with a rod, but our society and laws do not allow it. Singapore does allow young men to be caned and with great success. 

That's right, Ken is talking about beating a teenager.

He continues:

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if the Bible allows for stoning a rebellious young adult/teenager what makes them think that spankings are not permissible. Would it not be better to have beaten one's teenager rather than have them stoned? 

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 Like it or not the spanking has to hurt to be effective

Finally, after asserting that his wife never advised anyone to hit harder, we pointed Ken to the following exchange between Lori and a reader:

Reader

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I had one that would never give in to anything, regardless of punishment,spanking did nothing but make her worse, time outs where a joke, finally I picked her up and threw her under a cold shower.

Lori:

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A spanking will work if it is hard enough.

Reader:

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Not with her, we tried hand, and although I was against it belt, wooden spoon, cane everything she would just keep going, I stopped after I thought I broke her arm...

Ken?  Well, Ken quickly informed us that the woman who caned her daughter, threw her in a cold shower, and thought she broke her arm was NOT an abusive mother.

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you know full well this was not an abusive mother

Yes, you read that correctly.  Ken doesn't think caning is abusive.  He also doesn't think that beating your child until you think you've broken their arm is abusive.

Finally, Ken freely admitted to leaving a bruise on one of his sons.  So much for "moderate swats":

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I ca only remember creating a bruise on one child

Lori, however, remembers him pushing one of their sons down:

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Ken had Ryan come over and pushed Ryan down on his bottom.  He asked Ryan how he liked that

And the kids?  When Lori kindly asked her children to recall being spanked, one of her sons said the following:

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 He said Ken spanked harder and longer than I did

So yeah, that's Ken.

[Loveday]

@Koala, I really want to downvote your latest post, not because of you, but because of Ken's horrific words. But I don't want you to lose an upvote on a brilliantly put together post, so my 'like' in this case really means:  What the absolute FUCK, KEN??!!? 

[Koala]

@Loveday Believe me, I totally understand.  You have no idea how often I want to down-vote a post because of something Lori's said, but then have to remind myself that it's actually a down-vote for the member.

When people talk about how much better Ken is than Lori, I always remember his words.  They tell the real story. 

[jerkit]

Neither Ken nor Lori is better than the either, IMO. They’re just different brands of evil.

[Koala]

14 minutes ago, jerkit said:

Neither Ken nor Lori is better than the either, IMO. They’re just different brands of evil.

Ken just puts glittery bows on his crap (most of the time), and Lori can't be bothered.  He desperately wants to come across as rational, reasonable, and mainstream.  Unfortunately (for him), he fails to realize how crazy he sounds when he starts normalizing horrific abuse, blaming the victim, and talking about beating teenagers as if it's what any logical person would do.

[quiversR4hunting]

2 hours ago, legalbeagle said:

When I was in Bible college, we learned that "the rod" in Proverbs actually referred to a crooked hook shepherds used to tug on a sheep's leg when it was wandering from the herd. In other words, "spare the rod, spoil the child" does not mean "beat your child with a rod"; it means "give your kid a gentle correction."

I was taught the same thing (but not in bible school, I went to public uni)

This is what patheos (evangelical) writing says about a rod and staff: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2015/07/24/what-is-the-difference-between-the-rod-and-the-staff-a-bible-study/

Interesting what the author says here - spoiler it contradicts Lori, Pearls, etc. (my bolding)

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He cares enough to discipline us with His metaphorical rod when we need it. If He didn’t love us, He’d let us wander off like sheep over a cliff. His rod protects us from the enemy and He uses His staff to keep us close to the Shepherd.
Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2015/07/24/what-is-the-difference-between-the-rod-and-the-staff-a-bible-study/#DVwEsM2giHFwvUqh.99

This is what Wikipedia says about a shepard's hook/staff/rod in general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherd's_crook

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A strong, multi-purpose stick can be used for balance, examining dangerous undergrowth and for defence against attack by predators. The crooks main purpose is for catching sheep.

 

[Koala]

Broke my heart to see Jilly basically co-sign on Lori's post.  Well, I say co-sign.  She certainly didn't disagree with her, and seemed to give a positive response.  

Really made me sick.  I can't fathom someone who comes across like she does, hitting their kids.

Guess you never know...

*I do wonder if maybe Lori edited her comment, to make it look like she agreed.  I know she's done that before.*

[Carol]

From Lori's post  a few minutes ago.  It references a Debi Pearl article.

Oh. My. Gawd!!  Do not EVER let your children have or attend a sleepover!  They are porn traps where you underage child will be forced to view porn against their will and subsequently become addicted to it.  Or, if your child has a sleep over, his "friend"may bring his own porn and force your child to watch it.    

Children are regularly molested at sleep overs!  Debi Pearl knows this because they got eleventy tons of mail from their christian followers who verified this happening to them or their children.  This tells me is that their christian friends hang with other christian friends who watch porn and molest kids.

I can't count the number of sleep overs I went to where none of this happened.  I'm not saying it can't but there seems to be a preponderance of it among fundies. Lots of wolves in sheep's clothing.

[Sarah92]

Yeah I went to quite a few sleep overs and was never introduced to porn. The worst we did was share ghost stories and scare the crap out of each other. 

And by golly if your child is exposed to porn or at that age talk to them about it! Kids need to know about it. Tell them in appropriate terms, porns connection to sex trafficking and degrading people. Give them something to stand on. Don't just say "it's bad", give reasons. 

[RosyDaisy]

I was never molested or exposed to porn at sleepovers. We just did silly girly things and watched age appropriate movies. I remember one friend had a pesky little brother who put toy bugs in our sleeping bags. It wasn't funny at the time, but I laugh thinking about it now.

[jerkit]

This is entirely speculation and I have no proof for this. But every time I hear Michael Pearl talk about porn behind every bush and “porno freaks” I wonder what kind of sick shit he’s into. He has to be into something really out there with the way he compensates.

[Koala]

Dear lord...

Reader:

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I know what the word of God says about discipline for a child. My daughters were born 23 weeks gestation. We’re not suppose to live. One was 1lb 7oz and the other 1lb 3oz. They both had severe brain bleeds among numerous other issues. They are now 4 but one is not walking yet and neither are talking yet. They both have severe swallowing issues. It’s difficult to discipline children with special needs.

Oh my effing God.  These children suffered severe brain bleeds and are non-verbal.  One is non-verbal and can't walk.  Who the everlasting fuck would ever think they needed "discipline" of any kind?  God forbid this woman try to inflict more pain on those children.  Have they not gone through enough already??  What could they possibly do to warrant discipline?  A non-mobile, non-verbal, severely brain damaged child is "difficult to discipline"????  I just.....really, what the hell is wrong with these people?  Damn.

Lori:

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 It must be very difficult to know how to discipline children such as yours but continue to be consistent with whatever form of training and discipline that you and your husband deem as best.

No.  It's not difficult.  There's no discipline.  Severe brain bleed.  Does Lori know what that does??  They don't speak.  One can't walk.  The damage is obvious.  What on earth can those babies do to deserve pain????  NOTHING!

Of all the things, this one takes the cake.  I am just stunned, sick, and disgusted.  

Get a grip woman.  Your babies have suffered god knows how many medical procedures.  DO NOT HURT THEM BECAUSE OF LORI ALEXANDER.  THIS IS NOT DIFFICULT!

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Since Lori (a la Michael Pearl and Voddie Baucham) believes that even babies need to be disciplined because they "sin" it matters not to a monster like Lori that those girls are 4 years old and non-verbal with obvious damage. 

They are "babies"-- ergo if they do something a baby would do (squirm, cry, throw food, etc, etc, etc) they are sinning and must be disciplined.  Doesn't matter that most likely neither of those angels comprehend now or ever will why they are being "disciplined."  What matter to monsters like Lori is that they are being disciplined -- repeatedly.

Lori flicked her babies' cheeks, or let them scream all night or swatted them when they wiggled during diaper change. She would have done all that even if they were non-verbal special needs children.  They did something Lori deemed a sin, and therefore must be punished again and again until they learn to stop. Lori's children eventually attained reasoning ability, The reader's angel children most likely never will. They will be her babies forever -- continuing to "sin" as babies do and in need of discipline as monsters like Lori believe babies are.

**Adding --  a dear friend from college has a daughter who was born at 23 weeks with severe damage.  The angel is now 19, but is and always will be, my friend's non verbal, non walking baby.  The doctors estimate (as much as they can) she has the mental capacity of about 15 months.  My friend most assuredly does not disciple her child.

[Hisey]

3 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

Yeah I went to quite a few sleep overs and was never introduced to porn. The worst we did was share ghost stories and scare the crap out of each other. 

And by golly if your child is exposed to porn or at that age talk to them about it! Kids need to know about it. Tell them in appropriate terms, porns connection to sex trafficking and degrading people. Give them something to stand on. Don't just say "it's bad", give reasons. 

Same here. I don't know why fundies think that sleepovers are #1 place kids are exposed to porn, or sexually abused.

I have a different idea. I think that if you have 15+ children of various ages, and have one overworked woman in charge of them all, those kids are vulnerable to sexual abuse every single day, especially when you've taught them that boys are superior to girls. How about at church, while all 15 are roaming about the building during social hour?  How about during the day, when you are home caring for the little ones and you've let the older ones go to the park? How about when you visit with friends, who also have multiple kids, and you can't possible watch everyone at once? 

 

1 minute ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Since Lori (a la Michael Pearl and Voddie Baucham) believes that even babies need to be disciplined because they "sin" it matters not to a monster like Lori that those girls are 4 years old and non-verbal with obvious damage. 

They are "babies"-- ergo if they do something a baby would do (squirm, cry, throw food, etc, etc, etc) they are sinning and must be disciplined.  Doesn't matter that most likely neither of those angels comprehend now or ever will why they are being "disciplined."  What matter to monsters like Lori is that they are being disciplined -- repeatedly.

Lori flicked her babies' cheeks, or let them scream all night or swatted them when they wiggled during diaper change. She would have done all that even if they were non-verbal special needs children.  They did something Lori deemed a sin, and therefore must be punished again and again until they learn to stop. Lori's children eventually attained reasoning ability, The reader's angel children most likely never will. They will be her babies forever -- continuing to "sin" as babies do and in need of discipline as monsters like Lori believe babies are.

**Adding --  a dear friend from college has a daughter who was born at 23 weeks with severe damage.  The angel is now 19, but is and always will be, my friend's non verbal, non walking baby.  The doctors estimate (as much as they can) she has the mental capacity of about 15 months.  My friend most assuredly does not disciple her child.

I just had a horrifying thought. Those four-year old special needs children may be subject to their parents' "discipline" for the rest of their lives, never understand why.

[RosyDaisy]

OMFG WTH??? Disciplining special needs children? Only a monster would do that! Those poor little angels!

[Hisey]

4 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

OMFG WTH??? Disciplining special needs children? Only a monster would do that! Those poor little angels!

Even worse, the mom wrote this:

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We have to pray every day for God to give us wisdom in instructing us in this Avenue. It didn’t help that recently I had read several of Corrie ten boom books in which she didn’t believe in severe discipline but only in the spanking on the bottom. Thank you for this site. I look forward to digging in to your other posts. God bless, Alexandra

Does she mean she is considering severe discipline? And was disappointed that Corrie ten boom didn't approve? This is very scary for those little children.

[Sarah92]

If I could report that woman to child protective services I would. 

[RosyDaisy]

I have no words for this. None at all.

[Koala]

30 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Even worse, the mom wrote this:

Does she mean she is considering severe discipline? And was disappointed that Corrie ten boom didn't approve? This is very scary for those little children.

Sweet lord in heaven, what on earth is she thinking of doing???

What is "severe discipline"?  She's clear that it's not spanking.  What the hell is she talking about?

I literally feel sick.

[EowynW]

I think sleepovers are blown out of proportion for porn exposure but the threat of molestation is real at these events, IMO.  I have a friend who works with sexually abused/molested children and yea, there are a lot of horror stories about sleepovers. 

[Carol]

I know all of us have different ideas of who our worst fundie is.  Mine is Lori, hands down.  IMO she's an example of someone who has held her rage in for so many years it's now deadly.  She hates her marriage, she hates Ken and, more than anything she hates being submissive.  But she's stuck and thinks she has no way out because, basically, she's greedy and lazy.

The only brief respite from her rage is her "christian" blog telling other women how to live their lives... how to beat their kids, how to let their husbands rule them, how to stay home at all times except when it's necessary to leave their homes, how to be frugal, how to dress, etc.  I think she likes rubbing it in that she can afford high quality foods while her humpers can't.  

I think she has a lot of internal and external rage against Alyssa who seemingly has broken free and lives her own life and, likely, for her DIL's's who don't strictly follow Lori's rules of child rearing.  Lori hates any woman who won't listen to her.

She and Ken go from church to church and they either leave or get kicked out because she can't keep her mouth shut about how she wants to mentor younger women.  Who knows what she's said to them?  My guess is that whatever she said got back to the church minister and he/she told her to GTFO.  I can see her and Ken flouncing out of there in a huff.  That church wasn't good enough for them.

Now we see her disregard a wonderful example of showing compassion to two special needs children and their mother.  Not only that but she says they can be disciplined, just do it so it's not so visible.  After all, they need to mind.

Lori and Ken live in Hotel Short Fuse.  They deserve one another.  Maybe everything will just explode one day and all those dumb fuck mom's she preaches to and who praise her will face the consequences of listening to and believing someone so demented by her own hate.    

[Hisey]

3 hours ago, EowynW said:

I think sleepovers are blown out of proportion for porn exposure but the threat of molestation is real at these events, IMO.  I have a friend who works with sexually abused/molested children and yea, there are a lot of horror stories about sleepovers. 

No disrespect to your friend, I'm sure that terrible things do happen at sleepovers. However, my understanding is that most sexual abuse happens when an abuser has groomed a child victim to trust him, over a period of time. Most commonly, this happens within families (like the boyfriend of a single mother and the teenage daughter, or a "trusted" uncle and a young child). I don't think the sleepover scenario is the most common one. 

In our home, we have a rule that we (the parents) must know the other set of parents before a sleepover happens. When we lived in a small town and my kids were small, this was easy because I knew all the parents involved. Then we started moving a lot and the kids grew older. We were new in town AND the kids were older so I didn't interact with other parents as much. However, we have stuck to that rule, even though it often means that I've only met the parents once or twice. When my kids want a sleepover, they develop a "Come on, meet her dad so I can sleep over" attitude. 

So I have to hope for the best. My kids have phones and they know how to defend themselves. I've taught them that if they feel uncomfortable for any reason, they should call me to come get them, and tell the parents involved that they ahve the stomach flu. No one wants a kid throwing up in their house. If there are older brothers, uncles, grandfathers in the house that I haven't met, I take additional precautions (like waiting till the grandfather is no longer visiting, or making sure I get to know the older brother).

4 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

If I could report that woman to child protective services I would. 

I found the "mother" of those special needs twins. She lives in Cibolo Tx, or at least she did four years ago.

https://fundly.com/hargett-family-micro-preemies-support

[Beermeet]

I'm beyond shocked, floored that there is a discussion on how to discipline severly disabled children going on anywhere.  That is a n incredibly new low even for Lori.  I felt sick when it was about any child, I don't hit my children.  Thinking about it makes me rage.  But, this?  Forever angel babies?  Discipline what!  I'll tear her limb from limb I swear.  Don't meet me lady, it's best for both of us.  Since beating is ok and all, I'll have my first go at it with a "mother" who hurts those sweet angels she's supposed to love and protect.  This will give me nightmares.  My god, the evil in this world knows no bounds.

[Curious]

4 hours ago, EowynW said:

I think sleepovers are blown out of proportion for porn exposure but the threat of molestation is real at these events, IMO.  I have a friend who works with sexually abused/molested children and yea, there are a lot of horror stories about sleepovers. 

I went to a lot of sleepovers as a kid.  However, I didn't sleep away from home.  This presented an interesting dynamic.   Everyone involved KNEW I was not going to make it through the night, but they still invited me (I did have fun until it was time to sleep) and my parents kept letting me go, knowing they would get a call somewhere between 3-4am from the parents of the child holding the sleepover to come get me.

As a result, I was almost always up the whole time I was there.  I can say that there were never any siblings or dads (or Moms) creeping around in the night just waiting to molest one of their kid's friends.   There was also NEVER any porn (which had to be on tape back then.  I'm a little younger than Lori so I don't know where she gets the idea that porn was EVERYWHERE before the internet.

I will admit that we watched the Graduate at one slumber party.  I don't think we made it even 1/2 way through the film though because it was kinda boring and we had other stuff that was distracting like the pool table, video games, etc.

Obviously, this is anecdotal, but I came from a pretty small town and I think word would have spread if there was any untoward activity going on at certain people's houses.

I think the real reason Lori doesn't like the idea of sleepovers is that she loses control of her children.  They might eat an unapproved portion of something or *gasp* eat junk food or spray cheese.  They might accidentally see someone brush their teeth and we all know what kind of gross danger that is