Dillards 46: Now with Pants and a Possible Nose Piercing

[Iamtheway]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Plus, you're not carefully arranging it all and photographing it to share to your million followers on Instagram with weird captions to reassure the world that your #hubby is #yourfavourite!!

That is true. I might be the only person in the world that don’t have instagram though. My technical development stopped at Facebook and that’s it. If I had it I’m sure I’d have millions of followers though. I could instagram photos of me working from home in my pyjamapants and the piles of lego I step over but ignore when I go raid the kitchen for snacks. 

Sometimes I tell my husband that he is my favourite, other people can just assume he is as long as we’re still married. On Facebook I only share stuff about him when I beat him at board games. At those moments I’m not his favourite. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm really sad that I've never used a boy's photo as a bookmark. Clearly, I've missed something. lol

[Jinder Roles]

I can’t even shit on Jill too much because this is how she was taught to act towards a man. She’s just being the Sweet JillyMuffin she’s supposed to be.

However I will shit on her husband.

Fuck you Derick! While you’re having arguments filled with falsities on whether trans people exist, people are losing their fucking lives. The rate of violence against trans people (particularly black trans women) is astronomical. Trans and non binary individuals have no discrimination protections under the law.

I know several trans people who have to fake being cis because they are afraid for their jobs and their overall well-being. It’s heartbreaking and oppressive. Stop the bullshit. 

Also, white people have literally been taught that their way of thinking, acting and being is valid. Then someone finally tells them that the entire construction of their identity is based on violence and the subjugation of others. A lot of white people can’t handle that truth and just double-down on their toxic whiteness to compensate.

It’s tragic. I almost feel bad and then I remember that it’s me that is on the receiving end of their racism.

[Palimpsest]

On 12/4/2017 at 5:20 PM, snickers34 said:

Considering that the conversation here has been around Jill's pants and nose ring of late, and because that sort of thing always brings out the questions around fundie status, is there a thread somewhere that explains how exactly people define fundie vs fundie light? Like people wanting to know if said clothing item officially puts someone into fundie light or just regular conservative christian category. I've always thought it was a silly conversation to be happening at all, honestly, so I know it seems dumb to even ask when I don't prescribe to the whole idea. But I'm just curious...

Oh, it has come up a thousand times.  It isn't a silly question.

Free Jinger chooses not to put a definition of "extreme Fundamentalist" into concrete, partly because we are always finding new extreme Fundamentalists.  Of various faiths, denominations, and destructive absurdities.

It is a sliding scale so define it as you will.  But be prepared to argue your position.

When it comes to American Christian Fundies - I go by the "Christian" Patriarchal Movement and Quiverfull stuff.  And by "religions" which require women to be submissive by definition.

We can argue "complementarian marriage" all people want but I see it as submission.  If you don't know what that is - IMO it is a weasel word for inequality.

As you get into this stuff you learn the vocabulary and you come to understand the complexity.

I know.  I had a very steep learning curve myself.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

White lady here, and I feel like smacking Derdork upside the head. No, I do not feel 'under attack' by People of Color. I feel under attack by other White people.  It is crystal clear to me that Black Lives Matter does not mean White lives don't, while White lives matter means that people of color don't matter.  I'm not the best at articulating why I feel that way, I just do.

I do think a better descriptor would have been Black Lives Matter Too, because of whiny white folks who jumped on the "what up poor us" train.  There are so many people like Derick that see any other group looking for equal rights as a threat to their rights. As in if I get to make my own life choices that takes something away from him. They need to feel superior and if they don't get to feel more important then we are persecuting them.  

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm really sad that I've never used a boy's photo as a bookmark. Clearly, I've missed something. lol

There are worse things to miss out on than the awkward, insecure, and a bit obsessive love that lends itself to inane gestures like using your partner as a bookmark for any reason other than pure convenience.   I wish I could say I missed it too.  How quickly did the bright fires of young love turn into an absolute dumpster fire.  

[SassyPants]

5 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

How many times and for how many years can someone still enjoy reading the same book? I would die of boredom as a fundie. Their quiet time is ALWAYS reading the Bible. 

Yes, but that's because you probably comprehend and understand what you are reading. The Bible, IMO, is not an easy read. I doubt Jill is reading anything but words...not comprehending much of the true meaning.

I read on her IG that she makes lists of things to do, so that she can cross stuff off of that list. FFS, she has 2 small kids, no job, an unemployed husband and double digit numbers of helping hands right around the corner, and she has to schedule an infant's bath and runs laundry without soap?  She really can not function in our world. Her parents did her such a disservice.

How do their supporters not see that these folks are not fully functioning adults?

[Dandruff]

10 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

There are worse things to miss out on than the awkward, insecure, and a bit obsessive love that lends itself to inane gestures like using your partner as a bookmark for any reason other than pure convenience.   I wish I could say I missed it too.  How quickly did the bright fires of young love turn into an absolute dumpster fire.  

Wow, she really can't stand having him out of her sight, can she?  Ick.

I believe the Duggars are hoping that all of the recent Jill exposure will help restore Dwreck's public image.  If she's changing, then maybe he's changing too?  If she loves him so much, then maybe he's not so bad?

[Carm_88]

8 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Wow, she really can't stand having him out of her sight, can she?  Ick.

Jill being a stage five clinger is no joke! That being said who could blame her for not wanting that wonderful, giving, unbiased, loving toward everyone, fine specimen of a man out of her sight. 

Oh wait! We're talking about Derick... LOL! Just kidding guys, he's a turd and that might be an insult to turds because the only smell. They don't cause harm to other people deliberately. 

[HarryPotterFan]

3 hours ago, Gillyweed said:

Does anyone else feel like Jill is trying too hard to be relatable now?

If she is then she's failing.

Also shouldn't she and the other Duggars basically have the Bible memorized by now? They've read it enough times.

1 hour ago, Jinder Roles said:

Also, white people have literally been taught that their way of thinking, acting and being is valid.

Also white people are taught that being white and their traditions/customs/religion are what is "normal," and the way everyone should be. So they are therefore superior.

[Georgiana]

13 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Jill being a stage five clinger is no joke! That being said who could blame her for not wanting that wonderful, giving, unbiased, loving toward everyone, fine specimen of a man out of her sight. 

Oh wait! We're talking about Derick... LOL! Just kidding guys, he's a turd and that might be an insult to turds because the only smell. They don't cause harm to other people deliberately. 

I think it is very appropriate!  Turds, on their own, are just a nuisance, but if they start touching things, they can cause major damage.  Some of it is just annoying, like stains/odor.  Some of it is more serious but not deadly, like pink eye.  But if the wrong sort of fecal matter make it into the food/water supply, they can cause serious epidemics.  

Derick, by himself, is just a nobody grifter married to the least popular Duggar daughter.  Given a twitter, he's become a stain on humanity that we all are annoyed about having to scrub.  But we have to keep scrubbing, because if his vile bile contaminates the wrong channels, people could get seriously harmed.  He's not innocuous.  He's just currently rather impotent.  And if we play our cards right, he will STAY that way, contained to the waste water of Twitter.  

But we can't assume anything.  That was the mistake made with Trump.  

As for Jill, her entire identity now is being DERICK'S WIFE and mother to his children.  Without him, I'm not sure she even knows who she is or what to do with herself.  She never had to figure that out growing up, and I think now that she's an adult, she is struggling to carve out her own identity the way her sisters have.  

[Rachel333]

I think the fact that people cross out "Black lives matter" to say "All lives matter" says a lot. It irritates me when people can't see that "black lives matter" was never supposed to mean "only black lives matter."

[potato]

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm really sad that I've never used a boy's photo as a bookmark. Clearly, I've missed something. lol

Confession time:  While I said earlier that I wouldn't use a picture of my boyfriend as a bookmark, I failed to mention that I once bought a bookmark with Voldemort on it- partially because I thought it would be a funny thing to have and partially because Draco/Tom Felton was also on it 

[bella8050]

I am so behind on Duggar news! Had surgery in Oct. and still trying to play catch up in many aspects. 

So happy to hear Dwreck won't be on CO anymore!

Very surprised at Jill wearing pants, she was the last of the married girls I would have thought to do so.

Also surprised by the nose piercing and henna tat, Jill really is still like a teenage girl, maybe this is her rebellious phase.

Using a picture of Dwreck as a bookmark in her Bible is just creepy and comes off as sacrilegious to me. As does JB&M getting different pastors to sign their Bibles. 

[singsingsing]

5 minutes ago, bella8050 said:

Also surprised by the nose piercing and henna tat, Jill really is still like a teenage girl, maybe this is her rebellious phase.

It is interesting to see some of them experimenting (in pretty minor ways, but still) after getting married. Personally everything they're 'experimenting' with seems 100% healthy and normal to me, but it is interesting that it's happening now because they weren't permitted the freedom when they still lived at home. If you were a fundie parent, wouldn't this be a decent argument to let your kids have a little more freedom, whether it be wearing pants, dying their hair, listening to music with a beat, and so on, while they're still under your roof and your can observe/protect/discipline them, rather than forbidding them everything and then having them go nuts when they do get married and leave home?

Obviously I don't think any of them are 'going nuts', but from the fundie parents' perspective Ben's Christian hip hop, Jinger's skinny jeans, and Jill's nose stud might have them hyperventilating.

[Hashtag Blessed]

49 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

It is interesting to see some of them experimenting (in pretty minor ways, but still) after getting married. Personally everything they're 'experimenting' with seems 100% healthy and normal to me, but it is interesting that it's happening now because they weren't permitted the freedom when they still lived at home. If you were a fundie parent, wouldn't this be a decent argument to let your kids have a little more freedom, whether it be wearing pants, dying their hair, listening to music with a beat, and so on, while they're still under your roof and your can observe/protect/discipline them, rather than forbidding them everything and then having them go nuts when they do get married and leave home?

Obviously I don't think any of them are 'going nuts', but from the fundie parents' perspective Ben's Christian hip hop, Jinger's skinny jeans, and Jill's nose stud might have them hyperventilating.

Well, Joshley went nuts. 

What you say would make sense to any sane logical parent. But this is Boob abd Meeechelle we’re talking about. I don’t believe those two think that hard about anything but money and their next sweet fellowship session. 

Experimenting with aesthetic identity is part if growing into a self posessed adult. It is cruel to prevent that in your kids’ lives. Naturally they’re going to do some dabbling now that they have a tiny sliver of freedom to do so. It will be shocking to me if more of them don’t go nuts in the future. 

[Beermeet]

On 11/30/2017 at 7:38 PM, HarryPotterFan said:

Putting my psychology hat on...in my psychology of relationships class in college we learned about a concept called "excitation transfer." Basically you're in a exciting situation, where your heart beats fast, you experience a rush of endorphins and adrenaline - and you attribute that and the emotions from your SITUATION to a person. This is my theory on why Bachelor couples rarely work out, who wouldn't fall in love on a once in a life time adventure in  a far off, romantic setting? But this concept is real and has been studied. I hope that didn't happen to Jill.

Not to mention the necklace DWreck gave her.  That is very exciting the first time a boy gives you jewlery.  Hers was hand picked, in Nepal.  Kind of a big deal.  Too much excitement with very limited outcomes.   The first time that happened to me in HS, my parents did not like that.  Too much, too serious.  Jill's dad encouraged all of this.  Mom wasn't there to talk real with her ( let's be honest though, Mechelle would be of no use.  They should've brought Jana.  Why didn't Jill have a trusted sister there anyway come to think of it).  Fast track sucks.  They made it that long being single and not bursting into flames.  I'd actually think longer courtships would be favored.  

[bella8050]

I remember when I was 16 I met a guy that in my starry eyed head was convinced that he was The One. From the random way we met to many shared beliefs that most guys I knew had no interest in. If I had any money at the time I would have bet it all that I was going to marry him someday. Thank goodness we were teens and not early 20s where we may have acted on that both naively thinking that was all that mattered.  We stayed friends for a few years after we both realized we were moving too fast emotionally. We were friends until the day I answered him honestly that some of my beliefs had changed - saw a whole other side of him, a very angry nasty side, and never spoke to him again. I am forever thankful I was not in a culture that encouraged fast track young marriages.

[jerkit]

13 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

I could easily have my husbands picture as a bookmark. If it happened to be the closest thing to me when I needed one.

Yeah, this. I use post-its, scraps of paper, a pen, whatever the hell is closest to me. If that happens to be a picture of my husband, I'd probably use it. 

[ThunderRolls]

9 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It is interesting to see some of them experimenting (in pretty minor ways, but still) after getting married. Personally everything they're 'experimenting' with seems 100% healthy and normal to me, but it is interesting that it's happening now because they weren't permitted the freedom when they still lived at home. If you were a fundie parent, wouldn't this be a decent argument to let your kids have a little more freedom, whether it be wearing pants, dying their hair, listening to music with a beat, and so on, while they're still under your roof and your can observe/protect/discipline them, rather than forbidding them everything and then having them go nuts when they do get married and leave home?

SNIP

I knew a 30 year old woman who was raised in one of those non-denominational Christian cults that is so tiny and obscure they'd have their weekly services in a hotel conference room (red flag!). Anyway, this person was very much the "Jill" of her family in the sense that most people would see her as a goody-goody suck-up type. This woman's entire childhood was super restrictive with homeschooling and only socializing with other kids from the same background. While she was an adult, she came across as emotionally stuck around 12-13 years old and would absolutely agonize about the most minor of decisions (like clothing choices and makeup). She frequently made comments which implied a person is not really an adult unless they're married and always spoke of other adults as "grown ups" while not including herself in that category (for example her younger sister was married so she was a grown up). 

While I think this particular person is kind of an extreme example and likely had some trauma in her life that had never been properly addressed, I do think she's an example of an adult who is crippled in function as a result of a super restrictive and structured childhood. She always talked about marriage as some sort of gateway to freedom or a time when her family would deem certain behaviors acceptable - for instance, it would be OK to dress proactively if her husband liked her to dress that way but otherwise she was to dress modestly. 

Based on the behaviors of the Duggar daughters, especially Jill, it almost seems like they might view marriage in a similar way. While it's not total independence since it's based on their husband's approval, marriage still provides a chance for new opportunities away from home. Jill suddenly wearing pants, piercing her nose, and getting henna tattoos seems like a combination of finally getting the chance to dabble in these kind of minor expressions of identity most of us do in high school and college - if Derick didn't approve or encourage it, I doubt it would happen, though.  The fact that she's doing this all at once is what's interesting and why it kind of seems like some delayed adolescence (on Jill's part).

I'm always dubious about Derick's intentions since he's proving himself over and over to be a dick, and I'm suspicious that Jill's newfound self-expression is a lame attempt to appear more "open-minded" to other cultures in order to divert attention away from the Dillard's truly close-minded and hateful beliefs - I do think this is more Derick-centered than Jill-centered even though she's the one we're looking at. I can see Jill just being happy she has approval to finally experiment with her own style and not realizing Derick might be encouraging it for his own ends.

I follow these fools on social media, and they've been trying to show that they are open to other cultures for awhile now. It seems this must be an attempt to further legitimize Derick's pet cause of bullying transgender people - "see guys, we're open-minded about other cultures so it's OK for us to pick on this group of people." I wouldn't be suspicious of the motives if Jill had started doing these things when she and Derick first got together. To do it now, though, is what is strange. And maybe it's the freedom from not being under contract with TLC anymore that's allowing this all to occur at the present moment. I don't know, and it's just speculation. I will say, Derick's behavior has shown me, over and over again, that he's shady as fuck so I can't help but be suspicious of the Dillards at this point. 

Edit: Apologies if I'm just repeating what others have already stated - I haven't been on FJ as much as I'd like the past month or two as things have been kind of hectic around my neck of the woods. I'd like to say I was totally caught up on the threads but I just haven't been able to. Derick's recent Facebook post about "child abuse" sent me over the edge, though, and I had to make it back to FreeJinger for some sanity. 

[Gillyweed]

55 minutes ago, jerkit said:

Yeah, this. I use post-its, scraps of paper, a pen, whatever the hell is closest to me. If that happens to be a picture of my husband, I'd probably use it. 

I'm one of those horrible people who doggy-ear my pages. I've had many teachers yell at me for bending their books, but it's a hard habit to break 

[Knight of Ni]

5 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

I'm one of those horrible people who doggy-ear my pages. I've had many teachers yell at me for bending their books, but it's a hard habit to break 

I am always hesitant to lend out books because of the fear that it will come back dog eared. Last time I lent one out I specifically told the person that I didn’t want it dog eared. 

[12 Hungry Safety Pins]

24 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

I'm one of those horrible people who doggy-ear my pages. I've had many teachers yell at me for bending their books, but it's a hard habit to break 

A page, however, is very easy to break!

I, too, have a horror of people who would do that to a book!

 

I've stopped lending out books, mostly because people simply do not give them back!

I read everywhere I go, so sometimes my bookmark is a bit of (clean) toilet paper. I would use Derick's photo too, in a pinch, but I'd prefer toilet paper!

[SapphireSlytherin]

23 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

I'm one of those horrible people who doggy-ear my pages.

I can't be your friend anymore.  

[FeministShrew]

@12 Hungry Safety Pins I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has used (clean) toilet paper as a bookmark! I also read everywhere I go.
Mr. Shrew noticed me using random bits of paper & yes, tp, & started making me bookmarks out of index cards with "I love you" & funny little drawings on them. Sadly, I tend to lose bookmarks, which is exactly why I use random bits of paper & tp!
I've even used the tags off of new clothes before.