Dillards 46: Now with Pants and a Possible Nose Piercing

[MoonFace]

1 hour ago, adidas said:

Don’t tempt them.

LOL   

That is like saying, "How stupid can you get?" 

Some people see it as a challenge.  

[Incognito22]

As one of the Original zit conspiracy theorists, I too throw in my hat.  Well played Jill, well played.

[Iamtheway]

5 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I know! What else do they have to shock us before 2017 is over?

Crossing my fingers for ”Jxxx feels that God has laid it upon her/him to go live by themselves and get an actual education”

More likely ”Jxxx is pregnant/courting/wearing pants and we all still hate everyone that doesn't love Jesus like we do”

[finnlassie]

1 hour ago, Feministe9000 said:

~Forgive me for the depressing alternative-story there guys!  Every time I see a wide eyed grinning gummy picture of Jill, it always makes me feel incredibly sad for her.

You're not alone. I quite often, especially in the case of Jill, think about the what-could-have-beens. And for the youngins still at home, I keep a spark of hope. But in the end, it is as you say, depressing. Sigh.

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Feministe9000 said:

s it stands, if the pants and nose stud are a media distraction from her dickhead husband or a genuine expression of changes (keeping in mind, as many others have said, these are all "outer" changes, surface-level, material, etc.) or if it's both of those things, I'm happy for her.

I'm not sure I am happy for her.

As it stands - her nose stud and pants may be against Gothardism.  As some on FJ choose to define IBLP and Gothardism.  Plenty of Gothardites wear pants.  And nose jewelry isn't against all of that.

What saddens me is that these may not be "baby steps" towards freedom as some members, TV watchers, and Duggar fans may want to believe.

They may actually be a "baby step" towards an equally bad or even worse form of extreme Fundamentalism.  It isn't that simple.

Again, all Gothardites are extreme Fundamentalists, but not all extreme Fundamentalists are Gothardites.  I do wish some of us could take off the blinkers on that.

[meowfundiecatz]

11 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I don't expect Jill to change her core beliefs at all and I'm sure that what she believes about LGBT people is just as vile as what Derick spouts (if not MORE vile), but Ben I actually do have a little hope for. Recently he retweeted a post from Jasmine L. Holmes (an African-American Christian blogger, who actually seems pretty cool even if I don't think she and I would see eye-to-eye on everything) saying that women are "allies in the dominion" and the co-heir to the promises of God, not maids or cooks, and that our notions of femininity and masculinity shouldn't be so based on those strict roles. I don't think he's going to become a true-blue socialist (though honestly, I wouldn't rule it out completely), but Ben seems like his views are far more progressive than those of his family or peers, at least within the confines of conservative Christianity.

Oh if you could only read Jasmine's old blog! She was one of the OG stay at home daughters and even has a book about being one. ("Joyfully at Home") I read all of her stuff before and keep up with her a little bit now and I feel like she has just continued the same vision under a different guise. She also still has close ties to the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and Ladies Against Feminism. Ben re-tweeting her is status-quo for the Reformed bunch he (and Jeremy Vuolo) follow. This is actually one thing that has always been a mystery to me. JB married both Jessa and Jinger off to Reformed (and would-have-been VF followers) men, but married Jill to a Southern Baptist and Joy to an Independent Baptist.

[Sky with diamonds]

8 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I know! What else do they have to shock us before 2017 is over?

Derick gets a real job, he stops begging for money, and he stops tweeting his hateful crap?

I know there's no chance of that happening. 

[MotherOfDragons]

Guys, I go away to prepare for finals, and I return to nose piercings, jeans, and a non-skeletal Derick? And no new pregnancy announcements from anybody? Is this even real life right now? What is this fuckery?!

[TuringMachine]

7 hours ago, singsingsing said:

You've got Jill with, uh, whatever that is,

Are you referring to the stripped sling she's wearing? That would be baby Izzy.

[HideousGreenShirt]

Recently I have been rewatching the 19kac episodes from just before Derick is introduced to when they begin their courtship.

It struck me the thing most glaringly different about Jill in these episodes and what we have seen of her lately is her confidence.

When she is assembling her buddy team, asking her parents for things or interacting with her sisters she seems so sure of herself and very confident.

I forgot how many times they left her alone with total strangers (and the camera guy) whilst  in Nepal and she seemed to love it every time. At the various shops and the birthing centre she appeared to really enjoy meeting, working with and learning from whoever she was with. 

I also forgot how many times she said she wasn't sure about a courtship with Derick. My heart breaks for her knowing that maybe she felt obligated to say yes because she'd been flown halfway around the world and given a huge storyline on the show. Maybe she just got swept up by all of it and wanted a piece of the courtship attention that Jessa had already claimed. 

These fundie relationships move so fast, it would be easy for a sheltered kidult to love the one-on-one attention and all the fun planning involved that they ignored any doubts. 

 

We can never know for sure, I just hope that she has some happiness, Derick treats her and the boys well and that maybe she wanders into a health class whilst on campus and takes it as a sign from the lord that birth control is just as acceptable as nose studs and jeans.

[A Free Elf]

I literally joined here just to weigh in on the pants, since I noticed no one has suggested this particular reason for the change, which I find very likely...

After a couple of C-sections, your body changes and what looked good on your body pre-baby doesn’t look the same on the post-baby body. I can personally relate. My style changed after 2 C-sections as well. I swore off all tight-fitting tops because of the flabby belly that never completely went away. It’s possble that Jill did the same and, at the same time, she discovered that loose fitting tops and skirts aren’t very cute together. Loose fitting tops look great with skinny jeans, though, and the high waisted skinnies are super flattering. You feel very secure and it just sucks that Mommy tummy right in! No one could blame her for that! 

I have a game. Let’s guess who will be next to burn their jean skirts in a giant heap. Jinger’s already on board, Jill was next, (also Sierra)...who will be the NEXT one to follow the trend?

My vote goes to Joy, because Jill did it and because she has to wear maternity tops, which look weird with skirts. I think no one would stand in her way. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Sky with diamonds said:

Derick gets a real job, he stops begging for money, and he stops tweeting his hateful crap?

I know there's no chance of that happening. 

Derick getting a real job would solve 5/7ths of the problem. A FT job would suck up a most his time; his family would consume the rest. A huge part of all these Duggars' problems is the fact that they all have way too much free time on their hands.

19 minutes ago, A Free Elf said:

I literally joined here just to weigh in on the pants, since I noticed no one has suggested this particular reason for the change, which I find very likely...

After a couple of C-sections, your body changes and what looked good on your body pre-baby doesn’t look the same on the post-baby body. I can personally relate. My style changed after 2 C-sections as well. I swore off all tight-fitting tops because of the flabby belly that never completely went away. It’s possble that Jill did the same and, at the same time, she discovered that loose fitting tops and skirts aren’t very cute together. Loose fitting tops look great with skinny jeans, though, and the high waisted skinnies are super flattering. You feel very secure and it just sucks that Mommy tummy right in! No one could blame her for that! 

I have a game. Let’s guess who will be next to burn their jean skirts in a giant heap. Jinger’s already on board, Jill was next, (also Sierra)...who will be the NEXT one to follow the trend?

My vote goes to Joy, because Jill did it and because she has to wear maternity tops, which look weird with skirts. I think no one would stand in her way. 

Personally, I think skirts with elastic waist bands are far more comfortable for a larger belly than jeans or other non elastic banded pants.

[Feministe9000]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm not sure I am happy for her.

As it stands - her nose stud and pants may be against Gothardism.  As some on FJ choose to define IBLP and Gothardism.  Plenty of Gothardites wear pants.  And nose jewelry isn't against all of that.

What saddens me is that these may not be "baby steps" towards freedom as some members, TV watchers, and Duggar fans may want to believe.

They may actually be a "baby step" towards an equally bad or even worse form of extreme Fundamentalism.  It isn't that simple.

Again, all Gothardites are extreme Fundamentalists, but not all extreme Fundamentalists are Gothardites.  I do wish some of us could take off the blinkers on that.

I hadn’t thought of it that way, I appreciate your thought on that.  I am definitely one to allow my emotions get in the way of more pragmatic thinking sometimes, and I think my emotional reaction to Jill along with all the other kids growing up this way (or being dragged up, really) sometimes clouds my sentiments about these issues. 

 

Thank you again, this is part of the reason I appreciate this forum! 

[HarryPotterFan]

2 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

I also forgot how many times she said she wasn't sure about a courtship with Derick. My heart breaks for her knowing that maybe she felt obligated to say yes because she'd been flown halfway around the world and given a huge storyline on the show. Maybe she just got swept up by all of it and wanted a piece of the courtship attention that Jessa had already claimed. 

Putting my psychology hat on...in my psychology of relationships class in college we learned about a concept called "excitation transfer." Basically you're in a exciting situation, where your heart beats fast, you experience a rush of endorphins and adrenaline - and you attribute that and the emotions from your SITUATION to a person. This is my theory on why Bachelor couples rarely work out, who wouldn't fall in love on a once in a life time adventure in  a far off, romantic setting? But this concept is real and has been studied. I hope that didn't happen to Jill.

[GutenbergGirl]

15 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

I feel your pain! Sometimes it's a curse to have the graphic eye. 

Another graphic artist/printer here....  oh, Lordy, so much this!!  I used to laugh at my dad/boss when he would glance at something, and sling it back at me, saying, "That's a 64th off center."  I would mentally mutter that noone can SEE 1/64th of an inch!  

Fast forward 10 years, and yep, I can see something that's 1/64" crooked, or off center.  

Another thing, kinda related to the Jill/pants thing.  I was born into a Pentecostal family.  My grandma wore dresses/skirts her entire life -- except during WWII. She worked as a riveter in an airplane factory, climbing all over them.  And, as she said, "God'll just have to understand that I don't want everybody seein' my drawers!"  It cracked me up every time she told that story!

[nastyhobbitses]

Re Jasmine Holmes: well, I feel like a real doofus. Guess that shows how good she is at packaging the bullshit.

[mango_fandango]

I totally acknowledge that Jill isn’t stepping away from her fundie beliefs. She’s stepping away from the rules imposed by her family. ATI/IBLP does not forbid pants but the Duggars made all their girls wear skirts. I wasn’t expecting Jill to wear pants, at least not for a while. I didn’t really think about any of them wearing pants, not in a “they’d never do it” way, more that it just didn’t cross my mind who would start wearing them and when. I actually bet Jessa will be next. She’s close to Jinger and less so to Jill, so the thought will be running through her mind. Ben seems like one of those fundie husbands we discuss here who is headship in name only; obviously we don’t know what their relationship is like but Jessa seems like quite a headstrong character compared to Ben. 

I also think Joy will probably adopt pants in the future, but it’s still early days. She’s been a bit more private than her married sisters; JinJer don’t post so much on social media but there have been more photos of them than there have of JoyStin. 

[adidas]

9 hours ago, MoonFace said:

LOL   

That is like saying, "How stupid can you get?" 

Some people see it as a challenge.  

I wonder what the Duggar equivalent of ‘here, hold my beer’ would be?

[16strong]

38 minutes ago, adidas said:

I wonder what the Duggar equivalent of ‘here, hold my beer’ would be?

Hold my pickle?

[luv2laugh]

I am guessing she will cut and dye her hair next! 

[Sky with diamonds]

4 hours ago, adidas said:

I wonder what the Duggar equivalent of ‘here, hold my beer’ would be?

Hold my hand like Josh and Anna's handsex phase 

[PainfullyAware]

Why do I keep reading accounts of women who eacaped Gothard saying they were shamed for wearing pants on places like Homeschoolers Anonymous? That it was discouraged as an 'eye trap'?  Is it one of those things that what's written as a rule isn't what's actactually practiced by everyone? 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

Why do I keep reading accounts of women who eacaped Gothard saying they were shamed for wearing pants on places like Homeschoolers Anonymous? That it was discouraged as an 'eye trap'?  Is it one of those things that what's written as a rule isn't what's actactually practiced by everyone? 

It may depend on when these women escaped and which families they escaped from. To the best of my knowledge, skirts only is still a requirement at official IBLP events and I believe at HQ as well, but it’s fallen out of style for everyday use with many families over the past decade. A lot of families - like the Jacksons, Salyers, and Websters - have switched to allowing more mainstream clothing. 

I also believe it was more of a recommendation for everyday use, as opposed to a mandatory requirement. A woman could still be hardcore IBLP while wearing pants. 

8 hours ago, adidas said:

I wonder what the Duggar equivalent of ‘here, hold my beer’ would be?

Its, “Hold my root beer.” For instance:

Joseph: Joy just got married? Josiah, hold my root beer. I’m proposing to Kendra during the reception.

(And yes, it didn’t happen like that. I just find it to be a funny to imagine it happening that way.)

[Firebird]

Maybe Jill is just very easily swayed by what is the popular consensus around her? She was not taught to have the skills to reason things on her own.  If she is a part of a college group she may just be picking up the habits and beliefs prevalent around her. She's like a mirror, reflecting what everyone else believes. So her wearing pants and having a nose ring may be nothing more than reflecting the climate around her, which is similar enough to her upbringing that she can find a comfort zone. She may not have been able to find a comfort zone in central America because it was so unfamiliar and she can't make informed decisions about what she believes is right and wrong as she parrots everyone else, so she isolated herself in fear of doing something unknowingly against her beliefs. Just a thought....

[finnlassie]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Its, “Hold my root beer.”

Could also be "Hold my root beer float" or "Hold my grape juice". IIRC, fundies love that grape juice for communion.
(I had it once at a service when I lived abroad – never again. Grape juice tastes vile)