Dillards 46: Now with Pants and a Possible Nose Piercing

[nastyhobbitses]

I don't expect Jill to change her core beliefs at all and I'm sure that what she believes about LGBT people is just as vile as what Derick spouts (if not MORE vile), but Ben I actually do have a little hope for. Recently he retweeted a post from Jasmine L. Holmes (an African-American Christian blogger, who actually seems pretty cool even if I don't think she and I would see eye-to-eye on everything) saying that women are "allies in the dominion" and the co-heir to the promises of God, not maids or cooks, and that our notions of femininity and masculinity shouldn't be so based on those strict roles. I don't think he's going to become a true-blue socialist (though honestly, I wouldn't rule it out completely), but Ben seems like his views are far more progressive than those of his family or peers, at least within the confines of conservative Christianity.

[Irene]

Did I see wrong or.. Did really Jill have a pierced nose on the foto on instagram?

Its true! That honestly suprise more then pants,showing shoulders, and honestly bc ist Jill, but I would stil be wow if was one of the othere, the pants stuff not that big deal.

[physicalscience]

4 hours ago, Mlissmartin said:

I LOVE that she is babywearing

They have been for quite awhile, of course Jana being the original babywearer IIRC.  Bonus photo of Jill wearing huge izzy I found while looking for the Jana one, her poor back!

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Mlissmartin]

1 hour ago, physicalscience said:

They have been for quite awhile, of course Jana being the original babywearer IIRC.  Bonus photo of Jill wearing huge izzy I found while looking for the Jana one, her poor back!

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Oh gosh I very much dislike incorrect babywearing. Good job Jana, glad Jill figured it out now too.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm not a baby-wearing person, but that most-recent photo of Jill wearing Sammy... That kid is adorable!

[lomo6]

Wow I am officially team nose ring. I didn't believe it until this last photo.

[Tangy Bee]

5 minutes ago, lomo6 said:

Wow I am officially team nose ring. I didn't believe it until this last photo.

I know! What else do they have to shock us before 2017 is over?

[HarleyQuinn]

I give Jill zero credit for baby wearing after she wore Israel like a purse, then shared that lethargic looking photo of him from the same day. 

Nope. 

[momofsquid]

With a heavy sigh, I must resign as a member of Team Zit. That is definitely a stud (I refer to the nose thing, not the husband). It makes me ponder whether I have been misreading Jill all along. I thought she was a timid little goody-two-shoes who would never go against JB's rules or even think for herself. Maybe she feels free to express her true self now that her connection to the TV show is on life support? Was the goody-two-shoes character her role on the show? I'm a little bit weirded out by this. I'm less bothered by the pants. That could be an experiement that she may or may not stick with. A piercing is more definitive.

[onekidanddone]

2 hours ago, physicalscience said:

They have been for quite awhile, of course Jana being the original babywearer IIRC.  Bonus photo of Jill wearing huge izzy I found while looking for the Jana one, her poor back!

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I while back I was in Target and saw a family of four kids.  The oldest could not have been more than 10 and she had a baby strapped to her chest. So very Duggar.

[singsingsing]

My personal evaluation of Jill? She's not so much a goody-two-shoes as a know-it-all. So for example, her comments to her sisters about 'finding contentment', and her constant interrupting/correcting/pontificating during the talking heads could be taken one of two ways: 1. She's a goody-goody, an ass-kisser and a total people-pleaser aspiring to be the Most Perfect Fundie, or 2. She's a know-it-all, she loves being able to share her knowledge, maybe she's actually a pretty intelligent person but is so stifled by her upbringing that the only thing she has to be knowledgeable about is... her religion. 

I wish I could dig it up now, but I made a post a few weeks back about Jill being the Duggar sister most open to trying new things and having new experiences. I still believe this. The nose stud kind of confirms my belief. I also still believe that Jill is more intelligent than she appears. I think what has been done to Jill is criminal. She had a boat load of potential. She could have been a nurse. She could have travelled the world with an actual charitable organization providing actual medical care to people in impoverished places. She could have embraced her hippie side, made new friends, had new experiences, maybe met a guy without the interference of her fool of a father. She could have done all this and still remained a conservative Christian, if she chose. But that choice was stolen from her.

Maybe in Derick she saw what she wished she could be: an independent, idealistic young person who'd had the opportunity to get a higher education, and was travelling and living this sort of bohemian lifestyle, helping people and having adventures. And instead she wound up with an typical angry, whiny, entitled manchild who worships the Republican party and would rather insult people on Twitter and beg for money from strangers on the internet and relive his college glory days than take the initiative and make something of his life.

I honestly think that Jill, out of all the older sisters, was the one most likely to want to leave the confines of fundamentalism if she hadn't been so brainwashed. I think Jessa is perfectly happy with her life and her belief system as it is. I think Jinger is perfectly happy being the trophy wife of a borderline-fundie-lite pastor who will buy her cute clothes, encourage her artistic side, take her on trips, but not push her too far out of her comfort zone. Jana admittedly is an enigma at this point. Joy seems drunk as a skunk on the kool-aid and thrilled to have Austin and her trailer and her honeymoon baby. Time will tell.

Jill obviously wanted more, and she could have done more, but she followed her own advice and worked on her contentment. But notice how she was always trying to find a loophole? "I can't be a nurse. Okay... I'll be a midwife. I can't travel and do mission work myself. Okay... I will marry this adventurous missionary." 

Maybe she truly loves Derick and is happy with her life the way it is now. I hope so. She looks happy. That still doesn't stop me from wishing she would dump his sorry ass and forge a path on her own. Very difficult with her upbringing, lack of support, and two babies in tow, but not impossible.

And I'm not saying all this to argue that Jill is a saint. She has her own issues. But aside from Josh, I think she's the most glaring example so far of the catastrophe that comes with being brought up in that cult.

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

My personal evaluation of Jill? She's not so much a goody-two-shoes as a know-it-all. So for example, her comments to her sisters about 'finding contentment', and her constant interrupting/correcting/pontificating during the talking heads could be taken one of two ways: 1. She's a goody-goody, an ass-kisser and a total people-pleaser aspiring to be the Most Perfect Fundie, or 2. She's a know-it-all, she loves being able to share her knowledge, maybe she's actually a pretty intelligent person but is so stifled by her upbringing that the only thing she has to be knowledgeable about is... her religion. 

I wish I could dig it up now, but I made a post a few weeks back about Jill being the Duggar sister most open to trying new things and having new experiences. I still believe this. The nose stud kind of confirms my belief. I also still believe that Jill is more intelligent than she appears. I think what has been done to Jill is criminal. She had a boat load of potential. She could have been a nurse. She could have travelled the world with an actual charitable organization providing actual medical care to people in impoverished places. She could have embraced her hippie side, made new friends, had new experiences, maybe met a guy without the interference of her fool of a father. She could have done all this and still remained a conservative Christian, if she chose. But that choice was stolen from her.

Maybe in Derick she saw what she wished she could be: an independent, idealistic young person who'd had the opportunity to get a higher education, and was travelling and living this sort of bohemian lifestyle, helping people and having adventures. And instead she wound up with an typical angry, whiny, entitled manchild who worships the Republican party and would rather insult people on Twitter and beg for money from strangers on the internet and relive his college glory days than take the initiative and make something of his life.

I honestly think that Jill, out of all the older sisters, was the one most likely to want to leave the confines of fundamentalism if she hadn't been so brainwashed. I think Jessa is perfectly happy with her life and her belief system as it is. I think Jinger is perfectly happy being the trophy wife of a borderline-fundie-lite pastor who will buy her cute clothes, encourage her artistic side, take her on trips, but not push her too far out of her comfort zone. Jana admittedly is an enigma at this point. Joy seems drunk as a skunk on the kool-aid and thrilled to have Austin and her trailer and her honeymoon baby. Time will tell.

Jill obviously wanted more, and she could have done more, but she followed her own advice and worked on her contentment. But notice how she was always trying to find a loophole? "I can't be a nurse. Okay... I'll be a midwife. I can't travel and do mission work myself. Okay... I will marry this adventurous missionary." 

Maybe she truly loves Derick and is happy with her life the way it is now. I hope so. She looks happy. That still doesn't stop me from wishing she would dump his sorry ass and forge a path on her own. Very difficult with her upbringing, lack of support, and two babies in tow, but not impossible.

And I'm not saying all this to argue that Jill is a saint. She has her own issues. But aside from Josh, I think she's the most glaring example so far of the catastrophe that comes with being brought up in that cult.

Very interesting...

Your last paragraph being the most telling. Josh and Jill, the ones who have been out of the fold the longest, and both presenting as struggling and so miserable. Both Josh and Jill have hit brick walls in dealing with the conditions of life in the real world. Neither has seemingly been able to handle life away from Duggarville.

Now, Jinger seems to be doing better. Maybe the fact that she has been allowed to grow up a bit without an infant hanging off  of her? 

The dynamics are interesting-

[bananabread]

13 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I wish I could dig it up now, but I made a post a few weeks back about Jill being the Duggar sister most open to trying new things and having new experiences. I still believe this. The nose stud kind of confirms my belief. I also still believe that Jill is more intelligent than she appears. I think what has been done to Jill is criminal. She had a boat load of potential. She could have been a nurse. She could have travelled the world with an actual charitable organization providing actual medical care to people in impoverished places. She could have embraced her hippie side, made new friends, had new experiences, maybe met a guy without the interference of her fool of a father. She could have done all this and still remained a conservative Christian, if she chose. But that choice was stolen from her.

[ . . . ]

Jill obviously wanted more, and she could have done more, but she followed her own advice and worked on her contentment. But notice how she was always trying to find a loophole? "I can't be a nurse. Okay... I'll be a midwife. I can't travel and do mission work myself. Okay... I will marry this adventurous missionary."

I agree with this completely. More than any of the Duggar girls (and even fundies in general), Jill seems to have an interest in studying new/challenging topics and working outside the home. She clearly loved midwifing and tending to others. She clearly loved traveling. In fact, it seems to me like she enjoyed both of those things far more than she enjoys the daily tasks of stay-at-home-motherhood. It breaks my heart that in some alternate universe Jill is married to a Christian (but not fundie) doctor/dentist/scientist/professor, works as a nurse or real midwife, and has the number of children of her choosing. Because I think that is what she really wants.

If her husband was Ben or Jeremy, maybe even Austin, Jill MIGHT one day have the emotional and financial support to move away from fundamentalism, get a nursing degree, and live a relatively normal life. Instead, she is stuck with D-Wreck, who either doesn't realize (or worse - doesn't care about) Jill's true dreams and potential.

[TuringMachine]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I give Jill zero credit for baby wearing after she wore Israel like a purse, then shared that lethargic looking photo of him from the same day. 

Nope. 

For those who don't remember:

(Turd warning)

Spoiler

 

[singsingsing]

I mean, I do give her credit for apparently learning how to do it right. That counts for something. 

Oh man, the rest of that photo, though. You've got Jill with, uh, whatever that is, Derick looking like he's itching to gtfo so he can get back on Twitter, Anna clinging to her disgusting husband, and Michelle doing her very best 'adoring gaze' as her headship addresses the masses like the he's Pope. (I have no idea what's actually happening in the photo, but damn.)

[MoonFace]

20 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

It wouldn't surprise me if they justify pants as "well, I have a wedding ring and therefore men cannot lust after me" or something of the sort. 

I was thinking along similar lines but more toward 

The sacred V has now been violated so therefore I can wear pants now.     Men were only tempted when it was pure. 

 

However, I'm more interested in why skirts that reach the knees are now ok when before they all had to be down to their ankles.   We now see shins as well as knees. 

[catlady]

@TuringMachine, "turd warning" is right; what a collection of crappy people in that photo.

on a completely unrelated note, i just realized for the first time that your user name is *not* TurningMachine.......

[MoonFace]

On 30/11/2017 at 7:34 AM, Sky with diamonds said:

Knock me over with a feather. 

Gotta wonder if she did it and wear pants to deflect from Derick? 

It's a start - but she'd have to wear a micro bikini and shave one side of her head to take the heat off Dimwit

 

[socalrules]

So now that Jill has one upped Jinger in the style department, is she now considered more mature? I don’t see how clothing or a nose ring changes anything for any of them. Let me know when someone has a real job or is at a real accredited college. 

i think it’s unfair to say Jinger is somehow doing better than Jill as though she should somehow be put on a pedestal for Jill to look up to. I normally wouldn’t defend Jill, as she always annoyed more than any of them, but she has kind of had to deal with crap after crap after crap.  She has two tough pregnancies/births, was stuck in a foreign land where she was clearly unhappy and scared, she has an asshat husband who attacks children on Twitter and, to top it off, TLC released a statement saying he won’t be featured on their TV show. I would think that would be somewhat embarrasing. I think she is handling it pretty well all things considered.

Jinger gets to wear pretty clothes and is married to someone with horrible views she probably totally agrees with. She hasn’t faced any real adversity in her marriage.  Jessa has had it pretty easy other than the emergency after Spurge’s birth and her husband seems more caring and appears to actually enjoy his children instead of finding them manipulative. The sisters’ circumstances are completely different. We have no idea how Jinger or Jessa would have reacted under the same circumstances as Jill. If anything, Jill is showing herself to be a stronger than I previously thought. I think it has to sometimes be hard to get up everyday, put a smile on her face and keep going. 

[adidas]

3 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I know! What else do they have to shock us before 2017 is over?

Don’t tempt them.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm not a baby-wearing person, but that most-recent photo of Jill wearing Sammy... That kid is adorable!

I didn’t think I’d be into baby-wearing either, but I’ve loved getting to do that with Velocibaby. It was great when she was a newborn since she was a preemie (it made Kangaroo Care a little easier on my arms.) Now that she’s older, baby-wearing gives her a different point of view when we’re out somewhere and it usually discourages strangers from touching her. 

@singsingsingI’m very much of the same opinion as you. Jill absolutely has major issues - for instance, a seriously bad case of White Savior Complex - but I also think she was one of the kids who did have the most drive and potential. The fact that she was denied a decent education, denied real choices in life, and was even denied a childhood is appalling. 

[SamiKatz]

I realize that jeans and nose pins mean nothing compared to their loathsome belief system, but I'm still surprised to see it.  I don't follow  a lot of fundies (Duggars, Bates, Rodriguii for the most part), and I haven't seen any other nose pierced women in those circles.

It would be nice if maybe Jill (and definitely Derick), would perhaps learn a bit of humility and become more accepting of other people while they are in the college environment. I won't hold my breath though.

I also feel that Jill (and all of the kids), were majorly stunted and ripped off by their childhoods and education.  One would also hope they would be able to see for themselves how limited they were and act differently with their own kids.

 

[AtlanticTug]

We can't fully see it but the ring sling looks appropriately placed and adjusted which is a massive step in the right direction following the Izzy clusterfuck.

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Recently he retweeted a post from Jasmine L. Holmes (an African-American Christian blogger, who actually seems pretty cool even if I don't think she and I would see eye-to-eye on everything) saying that women are "allies in the dominion" and the co-heir to the promises of God, not maids or cooks, and that our notions of femininity and masculinity shouldn't be so based on those strict roles.

Yikes.  Don't get your hopes up too high.  "Allies in the Dominion" should have tipped you off.  We know Jasmine well on FJ and she does seem to be moving forward a bit.  

Ben's family and upbringing always seemed more in tune with Reformed Baptist and Christian Reconstructionism.   Dominionism not Gothardism. It also counts as extreme Fundamentalism. 

In other words, IBLP and VF were parallel and equally destructive parachurches involved in Christian Patriarchal Movement.  See Doug Phillips, Scott Brown, Geoff Botkin and others for more about the Former VF. 

IBLP and VF people overlap a lot and Ben's upbringing and beliefs were obviously acceptable to JB Duggar. 

Jasmine Holmes is Voddie Baucham's daughter and was featured heavily in the Botkin film "Return of the Daughters."  Voddie was the token minority in VF circles and is a despicable person in his own right.  However, he did believe in educating Jasmine.  VF was generally less hostile to education than IBLP - but just as keen on subjugating women. 

Jasmine is now married with children and, we are very pleased to see, working outside the home as a teacher.  Her husband was one of Voddie's acolytes, however, so I don't think she has moved too far from core Christian Patriarchal beliefs.  Ben isn't risking much by retweeting her.

[Feministe9000]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

My personal evaluation of Jill? She's not so much a goody-two-shoes as a know-it-all. So for example, her comments to her sisters about 'finding contentment', and her constant interrupting/correcting/pontificating during the talking heads could be taken one of two ways: 1. She's a goody-goody, an ass-kisser and a total people-pleaser aspiring to be the Most Perfect Fundie, or 2. She's a know-it-all, she loves being able to share her knowledge, maybe she's actually a pretty intelligent person but is so stifled by her upbringing that the only thing she has to be knowledgeable about is... her religion. 

I wish I could dig it up now, but I made a post a few weeks back about Jill being the Duggar sister most open to trying new things and having new experiences. I still believe this. The nose stud kind of confirms my belief. I also still believe that Jill is more intelligent than she appears. I think what has been done to Jill is criminal. She had a boat load of potential. She could have been a nurse. She could have travelled the world with an actual charitable organization providing actual medical care to people in impoverished places. She could have embraced her hippie side, made new friends, had new experiences, maybe met a guy without the interference of her fool of a father. She could have done all this and still remained a conservative Christian, if she chose. But that choice was stolen from her.

Maybe in Derick she saw what she wished she could be: an independent, idealistic young person who'd had the opportunity to get a higher education, and was travelling and living this sort of bohemian lifestyle, helping people and having adventures. And instead she wound up with an typical angry, whiny, entitled manchild who worships the Republican party and would rather insult people on Twitter and beg for money from strangers on the internet and relive his college glory days than take the initiative and make something of his life.

I honestly think that Jill, out of all the older sisters, was the one most likely to want to leave the confines of fundamentalism if she hadn't been so brainwashed. I think Jessa is perfectly happy with her life and her belief system as it is. I think Jinger is perfectly happy being the trophy wife of a borderline-fundie-lite pastor who will buy her cute clothes, encourage her artistic side, take her on trips, but not push her too far out of her comfort zone. Jana admittedly is an enigma at this point. Joy seems drunk as a skunk on the kool-aid and thrilled to have Austin and her trailer and her honeymoon baby. Time will tell.

Jill obviously wanted more, and she could have done more, but she followed her own advice and worked on her contentment. But notice how she was always trying to find a loophole? "I can't be a nurse. Okay... I'll be a midwife. I can't travel and do mission work myself. Okay... I will marry this adventurous missionary." 

Maybe she truly loves Derick and is happy with her life the way it is now. I hope so. She looks happy. That still doesn't stop me from wishing she would dump his sorry ass and forge a path on her own. Very difficult with her upbringing, lack of support, and two babies in tow, but not impossible.

And I'm not saying all this to argue that Jill is a saint. She has her own issues. But aside from Josh, I think she's the most glaring example so far of the catastrophe that comes with being brought up in that cult.

I love this! You couldn't have said this better.This analysis is exactly why I have always had a soft spot for Jill, and always felt compassion towards her.
And especially the furthering education/learning/interest in new subjects thing, she really is the only Duggar daughter who has married so far and ever expressed interest in higher learning, and factoring that in makes even more sense!

I imagine in another life, Jill may have been one of those students at UofAR, and maybe part of one of the student church groups, and maybe even would have run into Derick Dillard, been able to see him for what he really is, just a scrawny preachy guy, maybe she would have been attracted to him, maybe impressed with his "passion" for missions,  maybe even enjoy listening to his preaching and his nonsense, but that would be it. No obligation, no immediate marriage, Derick could have been just a passing thought.

Then she could have turned on her appropriate shoe wearing heel, and walked off with her jean wearing girlfriends to go have some fun, or prepare for an exam the next day, in her NURSING degree, without any other care in the world.
*sigh* but no point in ruminating on something which will never be.

~Forgive me for the depressing alternative-story there guys!  Every time I see a wide eyed grinning gummy picture of Jill, it always makes me feel incredibly sad for her. I just want to put my arms around her, pick up the laundry and tell her that she doesn't have to pretend all the time....like her mother.

As it stands, if the pants and nose stud are a media distraction from her dickhead husband or a genuine expression of changes (keeping in mind, as many others have said, these are all "outer" changes, surface-level, material, etc.) or if it's both of those things, I'm happy for her.