Seewalds 27: Playing not Cleaning

[Jenn The Heathen]

If my husband’s tree is accurate, he’s related to King Edward III (which means I’m related to my pet royal, Elizabeth of York, through marriage).  My tree is literally all poor European immigrants (mostly Italian, but also some German).  My husband really married down.

ETA: I read somewhere that pretty much everyone with European ancestry would be able to trace their lineage back to Charlemagne given enough information.  

[SportsgalAnnie]

I think my family is linked to King charles ii, I know my great great grandma was a full blooded Cherokee. I wish I knew more family history but no one's really kept it up over the years. 

Anyone else interested in the JFK Papers?

[JordynDarby5]

According to Ancestry.com I'm related to John, Henry II through one of his mistresses, Edward III, several early Scottish kings and Charlemagne all on my mother's side brother through her paternal side. I'm really not sure how much I believe it. I believe it until it hits Europe. Some of the information matches family stories and the census seems matches up.  But once it gets back to Europe I'm just not sure. Do I believe my mother's family is from England, Scotland and France? Yes, throw in a little Irish and German. Is it possible one or all of those links are true? Sure. Its also just as possible they were just normal people.  One of the links is my mother's maiden name all the way back to supposedly the first person who used it way back in Wales. On one hand it would be really cool. But is it true? Is it wrong? Or is it just the best information that they have at the moment (which is possible). My mother and I love the idea that its all true. But she hates the idea being descent through a mistress. She insists no matter what era it was no woman in our family ever would sleep with a married man. I try to point out that her own brother was married to three different women in one year, her grandparents got had two wedding ceremonies because they weren't sure her grandmother was legally divorced (there was a mix up with the paperwork) and other family misdeeds that maybe its not our place to judge. She wasn't amused.

[CarrotCake]

Wow, how do all of you know your familytree that far back? I don't know anyone of my friends that know theirs. I know maybe up until my grandparents grandparents and that's it.

I also don't think that anyone cares enough to explore.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

William Shakespeare did not agree with that woman in the documentary. That is for certain.  

William Shakespeare also most likely wrote Richard III when Elizabeth was Queen. No way was he about to piss off the Queen by writing Richard as a sympathetic character in any way, regardless of who he actually was as a human. History is written by the winners. 

My best guess is he was somewhere in between. He wasn’t a Saint, but he wasn’t the monster Shakespeare painted him as either. I believe contemporary reports described him as brave in battle and a decently effective ruler. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do horrific things, but it does mean he wasn’t one dimensional either. 

10 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Wait, that's kind of weird to think about, if it's true. Like I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Eleanor of Aquitaine. What if there's an afterlife and I meet her there, do I have to call her Grandma, or does she prefer Nanna, or what?

Probably Your Royal Highness. You’re just a dirty peasant now. Welcome to the club! 

ETA: Most interesting part of my family tree is the ancestor who fought at Gettysburg and the part that ended up in Australia.

Gettysburg ancestor had three kids and a wife when he left. Two kids disappear off the census while he was gone (meaning they likely died) and his wife died very shortly after he returned home. He married her sick nurse just a few weeks later and had two kids with her. The third kid from marriage one disappears from the census after that. For a long time no one had any idea what happened to him, but a few years ago I found a list of men who went to war with my ancestor and one person listed had the same last name. We aren’t positive, but we think it’s possible that was his son and he just left town at some point.

The Australian relatives... that’s a bit sad. It’s the same side of the family (Irish) and was the 1800’s. It’s likely the son got caught committing a crime of some sort and was shipped there as punishment or that he got into a fight with his father and left forever. The story our side told was he went out for shoes and never came back, which may have been a gentler way of describing the pain his family may have felt. 

As for husband... I’m not giving names, but his Great-Great-Uncle was a well-known mob boss in New York before he was murdered. His Great-Grandma was actually given permission to take her daughter and leave that life because everyone hated her husband (the boss’ brother) so much. His family has newspaper cuttings about the funeral (gaudy, even by Trump standards.)  

So, among others, my kid is descended from at least one mafia boss, a Civil War veteran, and horse thieves (as Dad jokingly refers to his FIL’s family.) 

[Screamapillar]

I have an Aunt who is a huge genealogy hobbyist and she claims to have traced us back to an illegitimate son of George II. And my husband claims he's descended from Genghis Khan (Who, of course, is the "Charlemagne" of people of Asian descent.) This all might slightly explain why my child is such a little tyrant.

This thread yesterday got me thinking about all of my favorite unsolved mysteries. Sodder children, anyone?

[Carm_88]

I'm mostly of hearty Irish Farmer, aka peasant, stock. I have a dash of English and a sprinkle of French via a great great grandfather but otherwise, not much!  

My best ancestor story so far is the many times great grandfather who was transported for stealing.

[AlwaysExcited]

One of my father's cousins believes that our family comes from Vikings. Only if Vikings had time machine and could travel to 19th century. 
 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I, too, have many family members whose "job" is genealogy research. Couple that with DNA testing and lots of research, and it's easier for those of us who come after avid genealogists.

I've recently found another nobleman with a link to James VI/I. This however-many-great-grandfather was one of the Scottish noblemen who participated in the Raid of Ruthven and captured James. lol

[Carm_88]

11 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm from Edward III through John of Gaunt - I know JofG was Duke of Aquitaine... How does Eleanor of Aquitaine tie in?

I meant to answer this last night but forgot.

Eleanor of Aquatine and Henry II -> John I -> Henry III -> Edward I -> Edward II -> Edward III -> John of Gaunt.

Richard II gave Aquitaine to John of Gaunt; it was Eleanor's and supposed to stay separate but due to family feuding and death, it became a part of England. 

 

[bekkah]

I keep reading this topic as "Praying not cleaning" 

[singsingsing]

Yeah, never trust other people's family trees on Ancestry (or anywhere else). Only trust records. Even then, stay at least a little skeptical! And don't take things at face value. And please don't be disappointed if it turns out that your great-great-grandma wasn't actually Native American. Everyone's great-great-grandma was supposedly Native American, and most actually weren't.

I discovered a few years back that one of my great-great-grandfathers was adopted. His parents were 'unknown'. This was quite surprising, as I'd never heard a hint of a rumour of this fact in our family. I was corresponding with a cousin on that side, and I broke it to him, and laid out all the reasons I had to believe that g-g-grandpa was adopted. The guy continued to correspond with me but just completely ignored that subject. I was flabbergasted! I think he was in denial because he had that side of the tree traced back to the 1500s and just couldn't process/accept that those probably weren't his ancestors.

[SapphireSlytherin]

6 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

never trust other people's family trees on Ancestry

Truer words were never spoken. Some of those "trees" are more like feather dusters - they've grabbed EVERYTHING they can, but little of it is useful or true.

[singsingsing]

7 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Truer words were never spoken. Some of those "trees" are more like feather dusters - they've grabbed EVERYTHING they can, but little of it is useful or true.

I've seen people whose 'parents' were like 80 years older than them and who were born and died on a different continent. I mean, come on... at least try! 

[Carm_88]

I also hate the people who get offended on ancestry when you try and correct them. "No that's not right. I did my research." Um it is right, you're talking about my grandfather, I'd know! Try not to be a dick about it.

[SapphireSlytherin]

19 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

people who get offended

I met a "new" cousin (my great-great-grandfather is her great-grandfather) for lunch one day. She was adamant that our shared ancestor was married to a "Cherokee princess."

I mentioned that I have zero Native American DNA (even though this particular line has been in the USA since the late 1600s).

And she says to me:  "Well, I did that test on Facebook where they analyze your face and it said 60% Native American."

 

30 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

born and died on a different continent

Plausible. Ships' manifests and "transports" and all that.

[Carm_88]

@SapphireSlytherin My distant cousin was telling me that my great aunt, who she had never met, was dead. She argued and argued. So I responded with "I saw her yesterday, you may want to inform her that she is in fact, dead."  

I get that after a while the overuse of certain names makes it confusing but when someone is generally, trying to be helpful; they have no reason to lie. 

[singsingsing]

52 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Plausible. Ships' manifests and "transports" and all that.

Not if they're 80 years older than their children, though!  

[SapphireSlytherin]

Just now, singsingsing said:

80 years older

Well CLEARLY it was an adoption. Sheesh.

 

LOL

[singsingsing]

6 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Well CLEARLY it was an adoption. Sheesh.

 

LOL

But adoption isn't REAL in genealogy! The only ones that count are your biological ancestors! 

First off, I have a spooky fact for genealogists who think this way: it only takes one broken link for an entire branch of your tree to collapse. If great-great-great-Grandma Mary had a secret affair in 1860 and conceived your great-great-granddad Bob and nobody ever knew, guess what? That whole side of your tree is 'wrong' and you'll probably never know, and there's nothing you can do about it! And the reality is, at some point back along your family tree, this WILL be the case! 

Second, my grandpa was adopted, and I feel much more connected to his adoptive family than his biological ones, who are strangers to me. His adoptive family raised him, imparted their values, interests, quirks, language, traditions, etc. on him and I think have had a much larger influence on who he is and who I am than those who contributed his DNA. So while I may not be descended from them biologically, I am absolutely descended from them in every other sense.

[ViolaSebastian]

I love talking with people about their ancestory, especially after it comes out about my grand mother's profession. But once I was discussing genealogy with a young man (about 25 at the time) who wanted to start. As a matter of course, I warned him that you can find things in your family tree that be disturbing--and you can't unlearn them. Being curious, he asked me, "like what?" Fair enough. I told him about my family tree, which is rotten with Confederates, or, I said, "you could find out one of your relatives was a guard at Auschwitz." To which she replied, "what's Auschwitz?" Record scratch. 

I was upset about this for a good three days. I even gave him my copy of Night, which I sincerely hope he read. I still marvel at the fact he got out of high school without knowing the most infamous Nazi concentration camp. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Just now, singsingsing said:

If great-great-great-Grandma Mary had a secret affair in 1860 and conceived your great-great-granddad Bob and nobody ever knew, guess what?

My hubby's tree. Almost exactly. And then she married the brother of the guy who fathered her illegitimate son. The son then married his stepfather's daughter. You ought to SEE the connecting lines on that one.

Just now, ViolaSebastian said:

rotten with Confederates

Same. And Union soldiers too.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

Just now, SapphireSlytherin said:

My hubby's tree. Almost exactly. And then she married the brother of the guy who fathered her illegitimate son. The son then married his stepfather's daughter. You ought to SEE the connecting lines on that one.

Reminds me of the FLDS. I grew up with genealogical charts and I can't make heads or tales of how theyre all related to one another--and God help me, I've tried because  they're fascinating. Truly the best example of a "family bush" out there. 

10 hours ago, SportsgalAnnie said:

Anyone else interested in the JFK Papers?

Yes! I was thinking about starting a new thread just to discuss them. What's come out so far has been fascinating. 

[singsingsing]

7 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Reminds me of the FLDS. I grew up with genealogical charts and I can't make heads or tales of how theyre all related to one another--and God help me, I've tried because  they're fascinating. Truly the best example of a "family bush" out there. 

Not nearly as bad, but I like to call this the classic French Canadian family wreath:

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I got nothing here, My mom's family is German/Swiss 100% they can go back to the 1500's all from that area. My dad's family we have no idea, his mom was born in Cuba, her parents were as well, her grandparents came from somewhere else, 1 from Spain she's was never sure where the other one came from.  My dad's father wasn't sure his grandfather or grandmother were biologically his grandparents, as the grandfather has several "families" around the south, and he thinks either he grandmother had an affair or he is one of his grandfathers many kids from many "wives".  So we can't trace my paternal grandmother because all her records are in Cuba, my dad was an only  child raised by his aunt & father his aunt had 1 child who never married or had children so there is no family to do any background as the aunt is dead and she never told anyone anything about her parents or grandparents, big shame in Central Arkansas in the early to mid 20th century.  My grandfather & great Aunt had very "native" look about them we think their DNA is Native American or Native to Mexico from their looks, but have no confirmation.  I did a DNA test and mailed it off this week so hopefully by the end of the year we will have some more info.  Depending on that my dad or brother might do one of the kits for males to get more info on our background.