Seewalds 27: Playing not Cleaning

[VelociRapture]

46 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

@VelociRapture I almost didn't recognize you with your new avatar. Love it!

Lol! Thanks! I like to change my look up every once in a while. It was too perfect an opportunity to pass up. 

[HarryPotterFan]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Geeze. Way to blast my address all over the interwebs! 

Sorry about that! How rude of me.

3 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I'm that way with the Princes in the Tower. What happened? Who did it?  

I wish I knew!!! I went to the Tower of London recently and got to peek into where they were held. 

My favorite mystery is who wrote the infamous Harry Potter FanFiction "My Imortal?" Is it a troll fic, or was someone THAT bad at writing? Recently it came out that the was was going to publish a memoir, but she turned out to be a fake. And I don't know if this is one of those mysteries that was meant to be solved.

1 hour ago, catlady said:

if you're in the mood for some reading, i've gone to this wikipedia entry a few times.  interesting stuff on people whose whereabouts are unknown--

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_disappeared_mysteriously

 

Oooh, this is a rabbit hole we can all disappear into for years...

ETA: Oooh, Roanoke and Amelia Earhart... 

[singsingsing]

@HarryPotterFan Yes! My sister and I got so many hours of enjoyment from My Immortal back in the day, and it still cracks me up. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it was written as a parody, and it was brilliant. "STOP IT NOW YOU HORNY SIMPLETONS!" shouted Professor McGoggle. 

[Carm_88]

33 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

ETA: Oooh, Roanoke and Amelia Earhart... 

I was just coming back to say I forgot Roanoke!  Ooops my bad! Now I want to watch Supernatural! 

[Lurky]

1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

My favorite mystery is who wrote the infamous Harry Potter FanFiction "My Imortal?" Is it a troll fic, or was someone THAT bad at writing? Recently it came out that the was was going to publish a memoir, but she turned out to be a fake. And I don't know if this is one of those mysteries that was meant to be solved.

ME TOO!   I kind of don't actually want to know the truth, because it's so perfect.  Every few years I re-read it and howl with laughter.

Have you seen the webseries based on My Immortal too?  I really, really love it (ETA I really love the diverse cast too.  This is my favourite Hermione, for sure!)

 

[Kleine Vampirin]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I was just coming back to say I forgot Roanoke!  Ooops my bad! Now I want to watch Supernatural! 

I am watching Supernatural right now. *gets another wine glass and pours @Carm_88 a large one*

[Jenn The Heathen]

6 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I'm that way with the Princes in the Tower. What happened? Who did it?  

Richard III

(or according to Phillipa Gregory, it was Margaret Beaufort...)

[LegHumperBibleThumper]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

@VelociRapture I almost didn't recognize you with your new avatar. Love it!

@VelociRapture I agree! your old avatar was so easy to identify. you are throwing me off!

[VineHeart137]

Glad I'm not the only one thrown by @VelociRapture's avatar change! I have to admit though, I'm gonna miss the Jana the Virgin avatar. That thing was gold.

[Glasgowghirl]

4 hours ago, Jenn The Heathen said:

Richard III

My money is on him killing them or ordering someone to do it. I personally wish they had kept his remains buried in that car park after what happened to those young boys. 

[singsingsing]

I think there's just no way we'll ever know what happened to those two boys. Even if we found some kind of written documentation, or could resurrect one of these people to tell us, we could never trust them to be honest. Richard and his supporters definitely had incentive to kill them, but it was also a time when children unfortunately died of natural causes on a fairly regular basis.

[SportsgalAnnie]

One of mine is the connection between Marilyn Monroe and JFK

 

[PumaLover]

Ooh conspiracies! Reading about all the different ones has been fascinating!

I too have wondered about the missing Malaysia airlines flight. I've read every article I could on the subject and still can't decide what is most likely to have happened.

Also definitely Amelia Earhart. And I've been reading a lot about the Atacama Humanoid. No I don't think it's an alien but I definitely want to know more about it. http://siriusdisclosure.com/evidence/atacama-humanoid/

I also believe there may be a Bigfoot like creature out there somewhere. There have been so many sightings. My dad claims he saw Bigfoot in the Santa Cruz mountains back in the 60s/70s. I doubt drugs were involved because my dad has always been pretty straight laced. But who knows. I want to believe!

[VelociRapture]

37 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I think there's just no way we'll ever know what happened to those two boys. Even if we found some kind of written documentation, or could resurrect one of these people to tell us, we could never trust them to be honest. Richard and his supporters definitely had incentive to kill them, but it was also a time when children unfortunately died of natural causes on a fairly regular basis.

Exactly. It was a horrifically violent period of time to be alive in Britain. Those who weren’t killing were being killed and being related was no guarantee of safety. 

One thing I’ve never understood is this - if Richard did kill his nephews, why keep it secret? Why not display the bodies in order to prevent pretenders from coming forward and prove you’re the only fit male heir left? And if he didn’t actually kill them, why not bring the living boys forward to prove it to everyone claiming otherwise? 

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

One thing I’ve never understood is this - if Richard did kill his nephews, why keep it secret? Why not display the bodies in order to prevent pretenders from coming forward and prove you’re the only fit male heir left? And if he didn’t actually kill them, why not bring the living boys forward to prove it to everyone claiming otherwise? 

That's my issue too! Even if Richard III were a murderer, it wouldn't be the first time that someone had murdered to get the throne. King John supposedly did the same thing with his nephew, who also was under capture and then just disappeared. 

Richard III clearly had the most to gain from them being dead. But why not say it? 

[VelociRapture]

3 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

That's my issue too! Even if Richard III were a murderer, it wouldn't be the first time that someone had murdered to get the throne. King John supposedly did the same thing with his nephew, who also was under capture and then just disappeared. 

Richard III clearly had the most to gain from them being dead. But why not say it? 

Not necessarily. I think Henry Tudor had a lot to gain as well, even if he himself never did anything about it. 

[Jenn The Heathen]

I think Richard’s grasp on the throne was flimsy at best and perhaps proclaiming he was a child murderer wasn’t the best way to win over his citizens. 

For something like this, I think the simplest explanation is most likely the right explanation.

[singsingsing]

4 minutes ago, Jenn The Heathen said:

I think Richard’s grasp on the throne was flimsy at best and perhaps proclaiming he was a child murderer wasn’t the best way to win over his citizens. 

For something like this, I think the simplest explanation is most likely the right explanation.

Agreed, and the simplest explanation is that Richard III had them killed to eliminate the threat they posed. But we'll still never know for sure.

Unless the Sasquatch got 'em.

[Georgiana]

20 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Not necessarily. I think Henry Tudor had a lot to gain as well, even if he himself never did anything about it. 

Henry Tudor needed them dead more than Richard, I think. Richard already had power. Would he have been able to keep it/have his son succeed him with them alive? Maybe not, but it certainly wasn't outside the realm of possibility. Plus, there were so many ways to off political rivals back then, and it would have served Richard far better to use one that could pass as an accident or could be blamed on someone else. 

Henry was never going to see power unless those boys were dead. His claim was too weak. It took 5 coffins to bring Henry Tudor to power, and even one less would have caused him serious problems. But killing the Princes would have helped Henry in two ways: by getting them out of the way AND by seriously damaging Richard's reputation, which up until that point was fairly decent albeit flimsy.  

The loss of the Princes in the Tower was a huge hit to Richard, who by all accounts was a smart and calculating man. Is it possible he made a terrible mistake? Of course. But I think it is more likely that someone in Henry's camp saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone and took it...or two children with a pillow. 

[singsingsing]

I don't know. Henry obviously had motive, too, but it would've been a lot harder for him to pull off. Have any of you ever played Crusader Kings II? If so, you'll know what I mean when I say that there were so many people with a motive to see those kids dead that plot power must have been at like 300% and it was only a matter of time.

[Jenn The Heathen]

14 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Unless the Sasquatch got 'em.

Or Nessie!

[Carm_88]

7 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I don't know. Henry obviously had motive, too, but it would've been a lot harder for him to pull off. Have any of you ever played Crusader Kings II? If so, you'll know what I mean when I say that there were so many people with a motive to see those kids dead that plot power must have been at like 300% and it was only a matter of time.

Me! It's so hard to kill people. And you can't kill your heir anymore.  Of course perhaps the Aliens abducted them! 

[Demonfan]

I lean towards the Henry Tudor theory. It just seems to fit his approach. It would have been so easy to bribe someone to make it happen, that it could have been anyone. I also think it could have been a supporter of Richard thinking that they would win his favor, like  what happened to Beckett

[singsingsing]

Conspiracy theory: Richard and Henry conspired together to kill the princes. Like on Survivor when people would form an 'alliance' but there could only be one winner, and they would always eventually turn on each other.

Mmmhmm. I'm writing this fan fiction now.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I think there's just no way we'll ever know what happened to those two boys. Even if we found some kind of written documentation, or could resurrect one of these people to tell us, we could never trust them to be honest. Richard and his supporters definitely had incentive to kill them, but it was also a time when children unfortunately died of natural causes on a fairly regular basis.

Josephine Tey disagrees with you...

Which, I suppose is my conspiracy theory of choice. I think The Daughter of Time makes great points. And New Coke was a marketing ploy all along.