Maxwell 13: And Another One Bites the Dust - John is Engaged

[Captain Obvious]

5 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I’ve long thought that Steve Maxwell is wasted on Protestantism. His anti-fun stance and his frequent bouts of fasting and repenting suggests to me than he’d be more content being a member of some kind of monastic order like the Cistercians or the Capuchins, where he could fast and pray in solitude to his heart’s content, without having to deal with family matters. But since Steve is a Protestant fundamentalist, the monastic option is closed to him, and so he has to make his home a giant monastery, roping his wife, kids, and grandchildren into this lifestyle as collateral.

Nah - he wouldn't get the validation in a monastery. Nor the trappings of a successful debt-free life with a micro-empire of followers and successors.

He'd rather be a Puritan version of the Pope. A whole church around the world hanging on every word, his own nation state, even his own fucking stamps. And he wouldn't have to worry about sex or the emotional needs of women. 

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I suppose it's possible Mary or Anna might eventually question it. But if Sarah hasn't by now, I doubt she will.

I think it will take Jesse getting married to do that. Until that happens, I think all three girls would still be thinking that their time must be coming soon. If all the boys marry before any of the girls, that's when the doubt will really hit. And they'll start to become sad figures in the fundie community, and they'll know it too. 

I always wonder what they say to each other in that bedroom each night, when Steve can't hear them and the cameras are put away. All those fears and doubts, probably left unsaid. Or are they?

[nomoxian]

48 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Considering that monthly cycles are how all these fundie blessings get here, I don't know why periods would be a secret. I guess they just want to buy candy and stuffed animals for the Christmas shoe boxes rather than really helping someone. 

In the last post about the shoeboxes, they expressed disapointment that they couldn't put candy in them anymore. It seems they do it more because it's fun for them to shop, and it's a way to feel good about spreading the Good News.

Do they even do boxes for older kids? It seems like the stuff they buy is more for younger kids, like gradeschool aged. Not that I would ever do OCC, but if there were a secular alternative, I would choose to focus on teens who are less likely to get gifts.

[PennySycamore]

@Cleopatra7,  @Captain Obvious may be right and a Puritan Pope might be just the right thing for Stevehovah.  However, the Carthusians sound pretty much his alley.  They not only embrace silence, but also solitude and spend the vast majority of their lives in isolation as hermits.  Father Thomas Merton was somewhat attracted to the Carthusians, but knew ultimately that he could not live his life like that. He became a Trappist instead.

Carthusians

I could also Stevehovah wearing a hairshirt.  He really needs to add that to his fasting regimen.

[HereticHick]

Maxwells part 14: Editing out Fun-Loving

[neurogirl]

I included more snippets and detail in the Bontrager/Bowers thread, but I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions about Chelsy being a ray of freedom breaking up Maxehll just yet. Her sister Allison just posted on her blog about the Bontrager/Bowers double wedding, and it included a lot of choice bits of her brothers (the grooms) as leaders of their women...blah blah blah. Allison may be spunky but she still has fundie maiden submit speak down. I hope Chelsy isn't quite as zealous, but she probably is. 

https://www.fromallison.com

[acheronbeach]

I might've missed if someone else posted this, but... John's shirt doesn't fit in the Maxwell engagement pictures.  It's enormous!  Even a loose-fit dress shirt shouldn't have a massive rift of extra fabric at the waist and enough sleeve room to fit two additional arms.  

I thought it might be because he's lost weight, but I don't think so because the neck is way too big as well.  I wonder if it's a weird attempt at modesty that just ended up looking sloppy, or if he really just needs to buy new clothes...?  

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

I always wonder what they say to each other in that bedroom each night, when Steve can't hear them and the cameras are put away. All those fears and doubts, probably left unsaid. Or are they?

I imagine the Maxwells bottle shit up more than a Coca-Cola factory. They don't say it. The stuff it deep down inside and try to distract themselves with schedules and tasks.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:26 AM, Tatar-tot said:

 

1. The reason we see the alphabet soup kids and Anna's kids is they need childcare help.  There is no way the SILs can keep the house clean, the kids sparkling, a smiling continence, and home-school without the Maxwell Au Pairs.   Absolutely! After all the eldest son's wife is the family matriarch in waiting! Lady Brideshead!

2. The family dynamic is warped at best.  I think Joseph's wife is well aware, and that is why we see so little of them interacting with the family.    If John & Chelsy do permanently stay in Kansas I hope Elyssa can bond with Chelsy, and support each other.   Why do I think they'll dislike each other? I guess I want a more Dallas-like atmosphere!

3. As for the Maxwell girls:  They will never marry.  There are to many cute, fun, & happy fundie girls out there to jump through the hoops Steve would put before them.  They are all spinsters.  Their future will be as unpaid Au Pairs, unpaid house keepers, and unpaid home healthcare workers.  The 3 would have been better off who they were raised Catholic and joined a group of cloistered nuns.  At least as nuns they would be doing something meaningful with their lives and making life better for unwed mothers or children from impoverished families.   I disagree. I think a widower with young children or  deserted Godly man will be found for ONE of them. ONE. Steve-O will prove his daughter's obedience by making them take this sort of marriage. Probably Anna. Sarah is too old--a man can't get many arrows for his quiver from her. Mary is needed to take care of the 'rents in the incontinent years.

My own post:

4. Ultra bad manners from Steve-O to be so snarky about the engagement. I'm going out on a limb here. I'm thinking he said "no" to marriage until the house was done and John called him on it and had her parents announce it!! [Please, please, please!!!]

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, acheronbeach said:

I might've missed if someone else posted this, but... John's shirt doesn't fit in the Maxwell engagement pictures.  It's enormous!  Even a loose-fit dress shirt shouldn't have a massive rift of extra fabric at the waist and enough sleeve room to fit two additional arms.  

I thought it might be because he's lost weight, but I don't think so because the neck is way too big as well.  I wonder if it's a weird attempt at modesty that just ended up looking sloppy, or if he really just needs to buy new clothes...?  

 

My guess? That photo shoot was thrown together last minute over the weekend because the Maxwell blog needed modest bland pics to make the announcement they didn't actually want to make. John didn't wear his nicest shirt. He just wore the shirt that went best with Chelsy's outfit that was also probably thrown together. If Chelsy does an engagement shoot on the Bontrager farm, it will look very different. It will be colorful, fun, relaxed, and they will be touching. 

[metheglyn]

33 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My guess? That photo shoot was thrown together last minute over the weekend because the Maxwell blog needed modest bland pics to make the announcement they didn't actually want to make. John didn't wear his nicest shirt. He just wore the shirt that went best with Chelsy's outfit that was also probably thrown together. If Chelsy does an engagement shoot on the Bontrager farm, it will look very different. It will be colorful, fun, relaxed, and they will be touching. 

Didn't they already do the Bontrager engagement shoot? That's what she's wearing the red dress for isn't it? If so, it's exactly what you're saying.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, metheglyn said:

Didn't they already do the Bontrager engagement shoot? That's what she's wearing the red dress for isn't it? If so, it's exactly what you're saying.

I was thinking the red dress pictures were from the Aug 28th engagement. Her makeup looked a little smeared like she had cried a bit and she had roses in her hand like he gave her roses when he presented the ring and proposed. 

[Themanda Duggar]

2 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

I might've missed if someone else posted this, but... John's shirt doesn't fit in the Maxwell engagement pictures.  It's enormous!  Even a loose-fit dress shirt shouldn't have a massive rift of extra fabric at the waist and enough sleeve room to fit two additional arms.  

I thought it might be because he's lost weight, but I don't think so because the neck is way too big as well.  I wonder if it's a weird attempt at modesty that just ended up looking sloppy, or if he really just needs to buy new clothes...?  

 

I don’t think either of them are wearing their own clothes. I think these photos were an afterthought, and they borrowed clothes for the event.

[Tatar-tot]

I used to think Sarah, Anna or Mary would marry someone but as time marches on it just becomes more and more doubtful:

Sarah:  5% chance: Too old - too neurotic - too set in her ways - too modest.  Dollars to doughnuts:  suffers from clinical depression like her mother.   My guess Teri suspects Sarah has issues and is concerned about her having children.  I wish I could slip Sarah some Lexapro.  She would probably rock once the meds kicked in and she got some therapy.  That isn't going to happen unless Sarah does something tragic, and ends up hospitalized.

Anna: 35% chance.  If John or Joseph can arrange something and run an end game around Steve, or, if Steve backs off (highly doubtful) she might just "put a ring on it." It is too bad because she seems to be rather spunky & would probably be a wonderful Mom.  [Did give it 40% but as I type this hopes dimmed even further.

Mary: 2% chance:  She is freaking weird.  Her art just seems to have some undercurrent of meanness. Mary is the most bizarre of the 3.  

I agree with you 100% on number 4.  It makes complete sense.  I hope John protects Chelsy.  He has experienced an alternative way of living when he is with her family.  I

It is funny to think I started following them because they seemed to have a handle on organization and raising teens.  As time marched on I realized they just have a handle on keeping their kids from not spreading their wings and soaring.   

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, metheglyn said:

Didn't they already do the Bontrager engagement shoot? That's what she's wearing the red dress for isn't it? If so, it's exactly what you're saying.

I think @JermajestyDuggar is saying that was just a fairly candid shot, and they may do a more professional, pre-planned engagement shoot later, with different locations and outfit changes. Most likely at the Bontragers. So they have a chance of the photos not looking like total crap...

[IReallyAmHopewell]

52 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

Anna: 35% chance.  If John or Joseph can arrange something and run an end game around Steve, or, if Steve backs off (highly doubtful) she might just "put a ring on it." It is too bad because she seems to be rather spunky & would probably be a wonderful Mom.  [Did give it 40% but as I type this hopes dimmed even further.

This would be another way for it to happen. She's the only one who might appeal to a guy I think. You are right on Sarah and Mary. Mary's art is just bad. Like Sarah's writing. 

Sadly, I fear no one would ever give a single thought to Sarah's possible mental state. And no way would any meds be given.  She is just necessary to the 'rents life. Remember the post when Mary (iirc) got braces and was frightened because the poor dentist asked her for her opinion? She could only look helplessly to Mom for the answer. These are not people who care if marriage/motherhood would have issues about anything, let alone about their sacred duty to be wives and mothers Daddy decides that best for them.

Gothard's entire empire started with a simple seminar on avoiding "youth conflicts" and developed into the "Cult of character" in which children can only become adults if they marry and have children, but stay forever under the "Umbrella of Authority"--hence the ridiculousness of the umbrella in the begrudged engagement posts!

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I think @JermajestyDuggar is saying that was just a fairly candid shot, and they may do a more professional, pre-planned engagement shoot later, with different locations and outfit changes. Most likely at the Bontragers. So they have a chance of the photos not looking like total crap...

Yeah that's what I mean. I think the red dress pics were taken like minutes after they got engaged. I wouldn't be surprised if Chelsy wanted to plan a shoot in Iowa with better clothing and backgrounds. 

[SolomonFundy]

The Maxwell pictures look exactly as "good" as their other attempts, so I don't really think that the awkward photography was the result of it being an after-thought. The post/announcement itself was definitely thrown together, but that's hardly a bad thing considering the average quality of their normal content. I suspect that they took these pictures a month or more ago just to generate some "background" fodder for the eventual mid-January wedding/engagement/courtship/friendship recap announcement. When the Bontrager's posted theirs (unexpectedly), the Maxwells had to cobble together the post with just a few pics to work with.

Regarding the clothing, I think that both Chelsy and John are wearing their own clothing, and that it fits fine under normal circumstances. Chelsy was probably wearing some of those high wedges she likes so much with that outfit, and with them off, the skirt is dragging the ground. As for John's shirt, it really doesn't look terribly loose to me. It could be more fitted, but not a whole lot more without being utterly unlike a Maxwell garment. He's definitely lost weight, though, and that's probably exacerbating the fit issues. Aside from the obvious physical change, he's had to ratchet his belt down. You can see the faint line on it in the announcement post. 

[singsingsing]

I actually don't think Sarah's a lost cause. I think there's something there. She's shown some initiative and follow through in the past, with writing, and then getting a dog. I know it sounds weird, and even if it was Steve who suggested and/or encouraged it, she committed to it and did it. She's also not a bad photographer. She's travelled to visit friends. And she's 35, not dead. Yeah, she missed her shot to marry a 22-year-old rising star in the fundie world and have 12 kids, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. She's a good looking woman and I'm sure there are men in their late 20s on up who would find her very appealing. The question is if Steve would let one through.

But also, people have epiphanies and make huge changes at all ages. Who knows, as she approaches 40 she might start seriously examining her life and questioning things she never did. Maybe seeing John 'rebel' a tiny bit might make her think that she can choose her own spouse, too. 

Is any of that likely? I don't know. I'm just not quite ready to count her out completely. 

Honestly, I think I'm just rooting for Sarah. Whether she gets married, starts a career, moves out, goes to college - whatever, I just want her to find a little agency, a little independence, a little confidence, a little success for herself. Considering her upbringing and circumstances, even a small, simple break from her tyrannical father would be a victory.

[lilith]

5 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I just got back from the supermarket, and there was a tampon box spill on aisle 12. I suppose Steve would have had to go to the fainting couch after seeing such defrauding instruments strewn across a public place. The male clerks who had to clean it up were just happy that nothing wet and/sticky had fallen.

I’ve long thought that Steve Maxwell is wasted on Protestantism. His anti-fun stance and his frequent bouts of fasting and repenting suggests to me than he’d be more content being a member of some kind of monastic order like the Cistercians or the Capuchins, where he could fast and pray in solitude to his heart’s content, without having to deal with family matters. But since Steve is a Protestant fundamentalist, the monastic option is closed to him, and so he has to make his home a giant monastery, roping his wife, kids, and grandchildren into this lifestyle as collateral.

But then he wouldn't have a self created group of worshippers to bend to his whims - he would have to follow catholic tradition and doctrine. He couldn't even stick with ATI or VF cause he had to listen to another mans ideas.

if Stevehova was catholic he would have to be the pope.

[lilith]

While I agree that Chelsy is a breath of fresh air in Maxhell, lets not forget that she and her family are still hardcore fundie.

Here is a picture of Daddy Bontrager, Chelsy and Allison with Doug Phillips and various daughters at the infamous Daddy shaving VF Father Daughter Retreat of 2008.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mjkbp6QHLyc/SA0gKvVdiEI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/rxgZ3xqwaf4/s1600-h/IMG_0738.JPG

[singsingsing]

18 minutes ago, lilith said:

But then he wouldn't have a self created group of worshippers to bend to his whims - he would have to follow catholic tradition and doctrine. He couldn't even stick with ATI or VF cause he had to listen to another mans ideas.

if Stevehova was catholic he would have to be the pope.

Exactly, with fundamentalist protestant Christianity Steve can be the King of his own little fiefdom. Sure, technically he's answerable to God, but he gets to decide what God wants, and he gets to be the voice of God for all of his subjects (otherwise known as family members).

[JermajestyDuggar]

24 minutes ago, lilith said:

While I agree that Chelsy is a breath of fresh air in Maxhell, lets not forget that she and her family are still hardcore fundie.

Here is a picture of Daddy Bontrager, Chelsy and Allison with Doug Phillips and various daughters at the infamous Daddy shaving VF Father Daughter Retreat of 2008.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mjkbp6QHLyc/SA0gKvVdiEI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/rxgZ3xqwaf4/s1600-h/IMG_0738.JPG

I really don't think any of us have forgotten how fundie they are. Steve never would have approved a family that wasn't. 

Lots of Steve rules have nothing to do with fundamentalism and everything to do with Steve. I don't think a single person has said they think John and Chelsy will run away from fundamentalism. What many have expressed is happiness that John might actually have a little bit of fun outside of Maxhell. The Maxwells are their very own level of fucked people beyond the typical enmeshed fundie family. 

I think John will enjoy the dynamic of the Bontragers and hopefully they will set some boundaries with Steve. But I have no doubt they will stay fundie. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

They added some stuff to the registry. It's all very practical home stuff. Things they will need to work on the house and its upkeep. No surprise there. 

[Emilycharlotte]

I've been lurking here since the big announcement, and I have a question.

In the picture from the sister's blog post--the one where J & C are working on the house--does it look to anyone else like she is wearing shorts????? I've never seen a cuffed denim skirt.

[Tatar-tot]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Lots of Steve rules have nothing to do with fundamentalism and everything to do with Steve.

I think John will enjoy the dynamic of the Bontragers and hopefully they will set some boundaries with Steve. But I have no doubt they will stay fundie. 

You nailed it with the first one on Steve’s endless rules from buttons to scheduling every minute of every day to the house of dull colors.  Steve really spends a lot of time developing rules and implementing them.  You would think he would have something better to do with his time like plant a vegetable garden (very zen), counsel prisoners, or being a stand in dad for deployed soldiers.  

No.  He stews. He micro manages. He starves. He obsesses over the Bible.  Honestly, Steve would drive me butt f*ck crazy.  I would be riding his ass until he got out my hair with the mile long honey do list, and endless power point presentations on topics such as how to load the dishwasher (all read packaged & previously presented to my hubby when he told me he put his dishes because he did not know how to load the DW).  

Steve - When you get up in the morning praise Jesus you aren’t married to me .  You would be back in corporate America to get a rest because I would not let you sit still for a minute.