Seewalds 26: Marketing her cute growing (?) family

[Rachel333]

I'm sure there will be plenty of kids who were on reality TV who turn out fine. A lot of people who had their parents make mistakes turn out fine too, but that doesn't mean it's okay.

There are serious ramifications to putting your life on TV for public consumption. Adults can choose to do it anyway, but I maintain that it is wrong to do it to children who can't understand what it means and who can't consent anyway.

[calimojo]

1 hour ago, KelseyAnn said:

Cute pic of the kids! But what is that ugly growth growing they're sitting on? 

Funny!

I do have to say though,  JB's hair is looking better lately.  It is less helmet looking than before.  It is unfortunate that someone with such poor judgment, and ugly beliefs gets a full head of hair, while his sons, suffer from unfortunate hair lines. 

The dirt on JBs pants makes me think he must actually do some physical labor.  Early on in the show,  JB was often shown working outside, and he strikes me as someone who probably knows how to do many things when it comes to home maintenance, lawn care, etc.  He also strikes me as someone who will always take the cheapest and easiest option, even when it isn't going to last long, or work well for a long time. 

I am of the belief that in the past both JB and Michelle were likely to be hard workers.  I still think that JB works hard for his family.  Not in traditional ways, but I think he is constantly planning, scheming etc ways to support the family, ways to keep the money rolling in.  I suspect he plays fast and loose with rules and laws when it comes to his diversified business ventures, but probably not so much that it would around suspicion or provoke an investigation.  Having several children of majority probably makes that even easier as he can name them on things, and likely have income and taxation spread out so that he stays in a lower bracket or even in the red on some things for tax breaks.  I mean do any of us really believe that on her own Jana bought a building that used to be an old tattoo parlor?  Or that Jason was really independently able to buy a house?  Between JB and his mom who appears to be 'sweet old lady', I think they are a pretty shrewd and cagey duo, who buy, trade, sell much like little kids do their baseball or pokemon cards.  They are always negotiating, trading in services, promises, learning just enough basic home renovation and building skills to pass through.  I don't like the man, but he certainly has been successful in  supporting his family and I just have to think that as it grows, he is working overtime, by his definition, to keep building up the businesses because he has more and more mouths to feed that will depend completely ( Josh's brood, and the remaining kids at home) and partially on him or the brand to keep them housed, fed, mobile, and covered with insurance. (Jessa/Ben, Jill/Der, Jin/Jer, Joe/Ken, Joy/Aus)

I am actually kind of surprised that JB isn't in more obvious distress, because that really is a lot of pressure.  And then I think the ongoing dis-enchantment everyone seems to be feeling towards Derick, from the Fans to probably members of the family must really make him crazy.

[Palimpsest]

52 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I'm sure there will be plenty of kids who were on reality TV who turn out fine. A lot of people who had their parents make mistakes turn out fine too, but that doesn't mean it's okay.

Quite.  Just like all working children in the entertainment industry.  Some will be OK, although their childhood fame, or notoriety, will follow them all their lives.

I posted this excerpt from Paul Petersen's testimony to the PA Legislature in 2008, fairly recently on another thread. 

Quote

 

Permit me to gently point out that in the mind of a child these are distinctions without a difference. Children are not Meerkats. They are decidedly not the same as a pride of lions being filmed by a naturalist on an African plain. They are aware…and if you’ll just close your eyes and remember when Dad took out the movie camera to film you playing in the back yard and the way you mugged for the camera…you’ll know to a certainty that even a two year old toddler knows when a camera is present.

Cameras and microphones alter behaviors. The presence of a working film crew alters the dynamics within a home. When money is thrown into an altered reality things can become extremely complicated. For the developing child who finds themselves in the voracious maw of the media there is literally no concept of the life-long consequences they will have to live with for the next sixty, seventy of eighty years of their lives.

Let me blunt about this: There is no Delete button on the internet. Once your identity becomes public there is no going back. Images can be manipulated, and even the most innocent activity can be changed to suit the mind of the consumer of popular entertainment. It is a dangerous world out there, my friends, and all of us need to be constantly reminded that the consequences of fundamentally and publicly altering the life of a growing child will have consequences. Each of us is directly connected to every day or our lives.

I repeat, the rules are different for children. We do not hand an eight year old the keys to the car. Children have bedtimes and rules. Kids are not equipped to deal with things like taxes and salaries, publicity shoots and travel arrangements…and they do not ordinarily have to deal with autograph seekers and fans.

 

More information at http://aminorconsideration.org/.

We do not know the long-term effects of participation in Reality TV on children, but they cannot be good.  A short documentary is one thing.  Even a single series probably doesn't do a whole lot of harm.  However, having every move you make on a semi-scripted and edited unReality show, where you are playing an assigned character with your name attached dissected on the internet long-term must be detrimental in many ways.

@SilverBeach, I enjoyed the Little Couple prior to their allowing the children to be filmed.  I think it is a very poor parenting decision to put the kids out there however they want to wrap it up in pretty paper and tie a bow of "education" on it.  I also gather that they have returned to TV this year and both their parenting and the children are being strongly criticised.  Especially young Will.

It is unfair to the children who have no say in whether they want to be filmed or not.

[KelseyAnn]

1 hour ago, Smoochie said:

 

Remember there are no protections in place for children 'acting' as themselves on reality TV.  No rules, regulations or protections that need to be adhered under laws that those professional children actors in the Guild are provided.  The TV contract is signed by the parents of all underage children and the underage children themselves are not compensated, their parents are and there are usually provisions that all must be available during filming hours. 

 

2

Not to mention the kids have no agency or power to dictate which parts of their lives they would rather be left out of filming. They literally have no agency in this matter. If parents decide they want an embarrassing clip broadcast to millions of people, it will be, kid's feelings be damned. 

[ophelia]

I don't only think that about kids in reality tv, but also about a lot of famous mommy bloggers and youtubers and the way they completely ignore their kids privacy. Especially our dear friend Kendull comes to my mind, who shares everything on her vlog. She even talked about her oldest daughter's period-emergency-kit in case she gets it for the first time during a sleepover. I think it is wonderful if you prepare your daughter and talk about in an open way (which I never could have done with my mother), but sharing it with the whole world on youtube?? I would have been so embarrassed at the age of 13/14. I just hope her daughter is fine with it now and will still be okay with it in the future.

[Palimpsest]

12 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

Not to mention the kids have no agency or power to dictate which parts of their lives they would rather be left out of filming. They literally have no agency in this matter. If parents decide they want an embarrassing clip broadcast to millions of people, it will be, kid's feelings be damned. 

Yes, and the contracts the parents sign are iniquitous.  They have to allow filming whether the children are sick or not, and most of them retain no control over what is shown on TV.  It is child exploitation at its finest.

@opheliaHeck, even Christopher Robin Milne had problems with his father exploiting him:  

Quote

 He believed, he would later reveal, that his father "had got where he was by climbing on my infant shoulders, that he had filched from me my good name and had left me with nothing but the empty fame of being his son."

http://www.countryliving.com/life/entertainment/a43801/real-christopher-robin-hated-winnie-the-pooh/

[Carm_88]

I do think that reality tv isn't a good idea for kids. Is it a good idea for anyone? I'm not sure. Kids don't have any say in it and there are moments that I am sure when they look back, they won't want out there. I'm sure the Duggar girls are looking back wishing their perms and frumpers aren't out there. Josie will likely look back and wish her seizure wasn't out there. Whichever kid (Jordyn maybe?) that got her head stuck in the railings of the stairs won't want that out there. Yet, they have no choice in the matter, which is completely unfair. 

[Incognito22]

I imagine Joise isn't going to be too happy about the poop episode and Jim Bob holding her by her legs like she was a rabbit with poop dripping out.  The poor kid.  

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Yet, they have no choice in the matter, which is completely unfair. 

And they are not even fairly compensated for it either.  It bears mentioning again that the "Coogan Law" does not cover children in Reality TV, and Federal Law does not cover children working in entertainment at all.  A few states have now closed this gap but not all.

In most states it is up to the parents to decide what money, if any, they set aside for working children in entertainment.  And performing on Reality TV is definitely work.

[calimojo]

1 minute ago, Incognito22 said:

I imagine Joise isn't going to be too happy about the poop episode and Jim Bob holding her by her legs like she was a rabbit with poop dripping out.  The poor kid.  

Exactly.  That is very exploitative in my opinion.  The fact that any parent would allow this to be filmed is terrible.  Parents have a responsibility to protect their children and to teach them how to protect themselves.  Parents who place 'cute' videos  of their kids having meltdowns, or acting funny after anesthesia, or throwing a fit when having to get a shot ( just a few things I have seen on FB in the past few days), are not protecting their children.  It may be funny and it might be a cute thing to film and share with the family once they are older and able to laugh at themselves, but to intentionally out your child's most embarrassing moments on Social Media is wrong.  Yes,  that is my opinion and I realize many disagree. 

[Stormy]

I'm a bit torn on the issue of family vloggers; I mainly began watching for the spectacle, but I found that I genuinely like most of them (of who I watch, anyway). I feel like a lot of people went into it as though YouTube were like any other social media--sharing cute videos of their kids and whatnot--and then took off from there when they realized they could make an income from it (lots of stay-at-home moms with 5+ kids). Most of it's just little kids doing their thing while their parents try and make something compelling out of it with a clickbaity title. (Like putting "Conquering his Greatest Fears!!!" on a video of their three-year-old mustering up the courage to go down the slide at the playground.) Personally, I think the more boring the content, the better.

That said, there's still that issue with consent no matter how innocuous the content. Even though most of the kids are very aware that their videos are seen by countless people in an era where being on YouTube's the coolest thing ever, we don't know what the long-term ramifications will be or how their opinions might change. While I don't think many of my favorites see their kids as cash cows, per se, I do get a vibe of overall naivete; their families are great and their lives are great, and they're able to show everyone while helping subsidize their lifestyle. What could go wrong?

[Seahorse Wrangler]

All this is why I'm glad I never had social media when my kids were smaller. There's nothing out there to embarrass them that I put out.

Anything they put out there now is on their own heads. But we have constantly told them no to over share on places like Facebook, instra, snapchat, etc.

[nst]

10 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

All this is why I'm glad I never had social media when my kids were smaller. There's nothing out there to embarrass them that I put out.

Anything they put out there now is on their own heads. But we have constantly told them no to over share on places like Facebook, instra, snapchat, etc.

I can't imagine having facebook, instagram a blog nada when I was a teenager way back in the 80's. It was a big deal if you had a sleepover and a boy phoned or if you phoned him...it was an even bigger deal if boy showed up...

 

[ophelia]

I remember being at sleepovers (00-05) and preparing with your friends to call that special boy on his landline. The fear in my heart that one of his parents could answer the phone!! It still gives me shivers, but it was somehow character building.

[of_the_lioness]

I have five kids, and three of the four who are old enough to talk are DYING to start a family YouTube channel. (The oldest teen sees why it might be a bad idea.) They watch a lot of those YouTube families and think it looks so fun. I, on the other hand, get upset when their Nana posts public pictures of them on Facebook (I don’t think she knows how to change her privacy settings even though I’ve told her a million times and asked her not to do it) and feel like my privacy is being invaded when my daughter FaceTimes with her friends in public areas of the house. And I never share (or photograph/video) embarrassing things about them on social media - because I am an adult who cares about my children as actual human beings and has the foresight to recognize that privacy and discretion are in everyone’s best interest. Unlike pretty much everyone we talk about here at FJ!

[Mrs.Right]

1 hour ago, of_the_lioness said:

I have five kids, and three of the four who are old enough to talk are DYING to start a family YouTube channel. (The oldest teen sees why it might be a bad idea.) They watch a lot of those YouTube families and think it looks so fun. I, on the other hand, get upset when their Nana posts public pictures of them on Facebook (I don’t think she knows how to change her privacy settings even though I’ve told her a million times and asked her not to do it) and feel like my privacy is being invaded when my daughter FaceTimes with her friends in public areas of the house. And I never share (or photograph/video) embarrassing things about them on social media - because I am an adult who cares about my children as actual human beings and has the foresight to recognize that privacy and discretion are in everyone’s best interest. Unlike pretty much everyone we talk about here at FJ!

I loathe the YouTube family channels that make videos of their children being disciplined or even worse making a video of your kid in the freaking ER! Limits people!

[adidas]

3 hours ago, ophelia said:

I remember being at sleepovers (00-05) and preparing with your friends to call that special boy on his landline. The fear in my heart that one of his parents could answer the phone!! It still gives me shivers, but it was somehow character building.

In the 80s/90s (and before that too I guess) if a parent answered you could just hang up. There was no way to tell who was calling!

Please note - I didn't do this. But I would have if I needed to

[nastyhobbitses]

I'm OK with the occasional cute picture or short video of your kids on your at least somewhat privacy'd-up social media, since hey, it's part of your life and IMO, it's the modern version of showing people your family photo album. The mommy bloggers and vloggers who share every little detail about their kids unnerve me. I get that your bread and butter is being a parent and producing content about that, but you don't need to share every little thing about your kids. If they're old enough to say that they want to do a family YouTube channel or have their own blogging/social media, I think it's OK to consider it and set parameters (privacy settings so only people you know can see it, only put up content that you approve of, the time it takes to work on it does not distract from school work or family time, etc.). Learning to edit videos, write/manage a blog, write and direct video skits, etc. are all good, useful skills and can help kids foster creativity and learn some marketable skills to get jobs later on in life, and I think social media is ubiquitous now - we're not going back to the 80s where you had to use a landline to contact people - so I think it's something that's going to be a part of kids' lives. Do what you can to keep them safe and with a healthy perspective on it, but this is how things are now.

[Eternalbluepearl]

15 hours ago, calimojo said:

I am actually kind of surprised that JB isn't in more obvious distress, because that really is a lot of pressure. 

I couldn't agree more. I do wonder if Jim Bob and Michelle ever think about the situation they've gotten themselves into. They had SO many kids, didn't educate them well, put them on reality tv, and encouraged them to marry young and made birth control taboo. That really sets JB and M up for supporting completely or partially, a LOT of people. I wonder if they are self-aware enough to see that.

[singsingsing]

I set a personal rule for myself, if I ever have kids, that I'll only post on Facebook what I'd be comfortable putting on my living room wall. For profile pictures and cover photos, only what I'd be comfortable putting in the newspaper or sending out as a Christmas card. 

I know some people who are huge oversharers when it comes to their kids. I'm talking really embarrassing pictures, anecdotes, partially naked photos, photos of them on the toilet, etc. It's really uncomfortable and unfortunate (in my mind) and I always wonder how annoying that's going to be for the kid when they grew up and have to deal with it.

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, of_the_lioness said:

I have five kids, and three of the four who are old enough to talk are DYING to start a family YouTube channel. (The oldest teen sees why it might be a bad idea.) They watch a lot of those YouTube families and think it looks so fun. I, on the other hand, get upset when their Nana posts public pictures of them on Facebook (I don’t think she knows how to change her privacy settings even though I’ve told her a million times and asked her not to do it) and feel like my privacy is being invaded when my daughter FaceTimes with her friends in public areas of the house. And I never share (or photograph/video) embarrassing things about them on social media - because I am an adult who cares about my children as actual human beings and has the foresight to recognize that privacy and discretion are in everyone’s best interest. Unlike pretty much everyone we talk about here at FJ!

Same here. I asked that our families not share photos or videos of our daughter on social media and I rarely share stuff about her on Facebook where her face is visible. I share more on Instagram, but that’s because the privacy settings are way more straightforward - my account is private, I don’t use hashtags, and only about 30 people I approve of can see what I share. 

 

15 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I set a personal rule for myself, if I ever have kids, that I'll only post on Facebook what I'd be comfortable putting on my living room wall. For profile pictures and cover photos, only what I'd be comfortable putting in the newspaper or sending out as a Christmas card. 

I know some people who are huge oversharers when it comes to their kids. I'm talking really embarrassing pictures, anecdotes, partially naked photos, photos of them on the toilet, etc. It's really uncomfortable and unfortunate (in my mind) and I always wonder how annoying that's going to be for the kid when they grew up and have to deal with it.

That’s the approach I’ve taken. Husband too. I figure we can always loosen up a bit if needed, but it’s impossible to completely get rid of stuff you’ve already shared once it’s out there or get people to forget what you shared. 

[VineHeart137]

31 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I know some people who are huge oversharers when it comes to their kids. I'm talking really embarrassing pictures, anecdotes, partially naked photos, photos of them on the toilet, etc. It's really uncomfortable and unfortunate (in my mind) and I always wonder how annoying that's going to be for the kid when they grew up and have to deal with it.

Yup. My daughter is potty training and I have managed to resist the increasingly common "I'M SO PROUD SHE PEED IN THE POTTY" post with accompanying picture. Nope, not happening on my account.

Even better are the ones that show the child's poop in the potty. Yes, we ALL needed photo evidence that your child is capable of pooping in the toilet.

[sansan]

On 10/4/2017 at 8:01 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I may not shave my legs again until spring. I don't wear dresses very often and I'm prone to ingrown hairs. Blurred legs would be handy, from time to time. 

Ahhh, the benefits of aging, hair growing slows way down, at least on my legs. Friends have said same thing. Although there are actually few benefits, discounts mostly but I will take them when I get them. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I know some over-sharers on Facebook too and I cringe when they relay stories of very personal things about their children. Here is what they are struggling with in school, this is what the teacher told me about my child, this is what their doctor said, this is what a psychologist said. All of these deeply private details are given out usually under the guise of asking for parenting advice. It's too much. Ask for advice privately. Your kid is trusting you. I can't imagine being any age and having my mom publicly asking a big group of friends, relatives and acquaintances for advice on my anxiety, eating habits, trouble with math or friends, or that she got a call from the school that I was in trouble. Just no. 

[front hugs > duggs]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I set a personal rule for myself, if I ever have kids, that I'll only post on Facebook what I'd be comfortable putting on my living room wall.

That's great and all until you remember your mom put a picture of your naked baby brother spread eagle up on our entry way wall