Jana's Future 5 - The More Things Seem to Change...

[LillyP]

I remember Laura being in the last episode and getting introduced as helping out....but what exactly is her official role in the family?? What family is she from and if she's of marriageable age and attractive why is she living with the Duggars and not married off already?

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

She works for ATI in some capacity. JB and Michelle keep hiring "help" in the form of unmarried 30 something year old Gothard females. I think Laura is there because 1) JB&M want the extra help for the upkeep of the house and the remaining kids 2) Jana is her best friend and it makes Jana being the oldest girl easier 3) it gives her a break from her regular job and she can practice her hobby of being a fundie wedding coordinator. 

She'll leave once she is married or goes back to whatever her position was at the ATI headquarters. I really think Jana will start courting someone once Laura leaves because it'll probably get really boring w/o her sisters and limited freedom. A garden can only do so much. 

[Coconut Flan]

Didn't Laura leave already?  I thought I saw an Instagram photo where people were saying it was goodbye to her.  I'll go look for it if I find the time.

[Jenn The Heathen]

Why do the Duggars need to hire help?  Realistically speaking, Jana, JD, and Siah should be free to go out and live their lives away from the TTH. That would leave 10 kids 18 years old and younger.  Michelle can’t manage that with them all pitching in?  Wasn’t that the premise of the original specials? Free Laura, whoever she is.

[Coconut Flan]

I found the goodbye Laura but I don't know it's original source so can't post it here.  It was a photo liked by Jinger though if helps the sleuths.

[VBOY9977]

Laura is in the Bahamas celebrating John Webster’s sister’s birthday. they should’ve invited Jana too, but i guess she isn’t that close to the Websters

[Smoochie]

19 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

Laura is in the Bahamas celebrating John Webster’s sister’s birthday. they should’ve invited Jana too, but i guess she isn’t that close to the Websters

She was on the cruise with them?  I don't know all the other people in the picture posted on John's instagram (Bates 22 thread), but, there does seem to be an 'extra' female there.  

I don't think Jana would have been allowed to go, even if asked.   I would love for her to be able to, but, I'm even surprised that John & Alyssa were on a cruise to the Bahamas!  Not that there's anything wrong with cruising, I do, however I'm a heathen (by fundie standards) ... they do seem to be breaking free of many of their imposed restrictions of the past.

[VBOY9977]

There are various couples and then there is Laura, Tori Webster and her bff Kayla... Laura posted pics too

yeah, I don’t think Jana would’ve been allowed to go with all the people in bikinis and shorts there lmao. But I think she could’ve used a trip out of the house for a while, and now that Laura left she must have a lot of work in her hands.

[MoonFace]

If Jana were able to start a relationship that leads to courting don't you think that at her 'advanced' age (what, 27?) that she should have earned enough trust and experience that she would no longer need a chaperone? 

I know that Ma and Pa Duggar believe in accountability and all that happy horse $hit - but come on!   

If a woman is widowed and starts dating again does she have to go back to having a chaperone? 

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

If Jana were able to start a relationship that leads to courting don't you think that at her 'advanced' age (what, 27?) that she should have earned enough trust and experience that she would no longer need a chaperone? 

I know that Ma and Pa Duggar believe in accountability and all that happy horse $hit - but come on!   

If a woman is widowed and starts dating again does she have to go back to having a chaperone? 

Nope. There's no trust at any age. She could be fifty years old and she would still require a chaperone. 27 is no different than 17 to them. 

[anjulibai]

Reminds me of that scene in Gone with the Wind, when Doctor Meade says that Scarlette needs to stay with Melanie until Melanie gives birth, and Aunt Pitty Pat says "Without a chaperone?! It simply isn't done!" These were married/widowed mothers, who had been working as nurses in an army hospital, in some pretty awful conditions, but they still needed a chaperone in her mind. 

Then of course Doctor Meade says "Damnit, this is a war, not a garden party!"

I think fundies would take risk bringing Melanie on those roads, because no way would they leave her and Scarlett alone. 

[calimojo]

In a picture of John and Alyssa Webster, they were drinking something out of a pineapple.  Is it possible that they were having a tropical cocktail?  Do you think Alyssa may actually indulge in a drink now and then?  If so, that seems to be a pretty big break with family tradition.   

As to Jana,  I don't know.  Maybe she is really just content with where she is.  None of the kids, except for Jinger, seems to be all that interested in getting away from the compound.  Even those who don't live on the compound still  seem to spend a great deal of time there. 

I think we all want Jana to break free because we feel sorry for her.  But she does seem to be generally content.  She has been exposed to enough to life outside the compound that if she were desperately unhappy, she could have left.  She no doubt has friends who have become more independent.  There is that Krista girl, who she could reach out to if she really felt oppressed or  at the breaking point. 

Like many of us,  I have a soft spot for Jana.  I would love to see her living her own life, but we can't assume that she hasn't had the chance, and has chosen to stay put. 

 

[SassyPants]

I think any cocktail can be made virgin style sin alcohol. My bet would be those are virgin drinks.

[calimojo]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I think any cocktail can be made virgin style sin alcohol. My bet would be those are virgin drinks.

Maybe, but  Do we know if the Websters abstain from Alcohol?  Does Pence?  I mean he is a religious zealot fundie nut job, but does he avoid alcohol? 

 

Alyssa seemed very ready to shed the skin of her upbringing in some ways.  Maybe like Jeremy,  they see nothing wrong with a wee bit of happy juice now and then?    I would imagine this could be upsetting to mama and daddy Bates though.  That might be a step too far. 

 

It is a shame Jana couldn't or didn't go on the cruise with her friend.  That might have been a really fun thing for her.  We will never know if she makes her own choices or if she is guided and instructed by JB and M, in all things.  the dynamic is just so odd

 

 

[BullyJBG]

7 hours ago, MoonFace said:

If a woman is widowed and starts dating again does she have to go back to having a chaperone? 

I hope one day Grandma or Debbie Query can answer that question. I do wonder if they've had opportunities for dating/courting again, and how it would work. We saw very little with that when Kelly Bates' mom re-married her third husband. Only that Kelly didn't seem to mind THEM kissing before marriage.

[Snowless]

On 11/4/2017 at 2:52 PM, MoonFace said:

If a woman is widowed and starts dating again does she have to go back to having a chaperone? 

I’d be shocked if it was like that.  I mean, it’s kinda like being a “born-again virgin”: what’s the point?  Unless the husband died before they got to consummate the marriage, she will have already seen what a man looks like naked, so there’s nothing to shield her from.  It’s like trying to put the wrapper back over the cottage cheese after it’s already been opened!  And it’d be even more pointless to force a widow to do that if she already had kids.  And this is not just a fundie thing either...I had the same reaction to hearing that Ciara and Russell Wilson were “saving” their sex for marriage (when she’d already had a kid with her ex-fiancé Future and Russell was already divorced from his first wife).  The only way I could see this making sense is if the guy was marrying for the first time and still a virgin.

I would hope that a widow who wants to marry again would at least get a little more compassion from the Fundies in Charge.  But then again, the Fundies in Charge have already shown little compassion for women to begin with, so what’s a little more devaluing and emotional trauma?

[singsingsing]

12 minutes ago, Snowless said:

I’d be shocked if it was like that.  I mean, it’s kinda like being a “born-again virgin”: what’s the point?  Unless the husband died before they got to consummate the marriage, she will have already seen what a man looks like naked, so there’s nothing to shield her from.  It’s like trying to put the wrapper back over the cottage cheese after it’s already been opened!  And it’d be even more pointless to force a widow to do that if she already had kids.  And this is not just a fundie thing either...I had the same reaction to hearing that Ciara and Russell Wilson were “saving” their sex for marriage (when she’d already had a kid with her ex-fiancé Future and Russell was already divorced from his first wife).  The only way I could see this making sense is if the guy was marrying for the first time and still a virgin.

I would hope that a widow who wants to marry again would at least get a little more compassion from the Fundies in Charge.  But then again, the Fundies in Charge have already shown little compassion for women to begin with, so what’s a little more devaluing and emotional trauma?

Nope. They don't prize chastity only in the context of virginity. Believe it or not, it's actually not all about virginity. Sex outside of marriage (I'm speaking from their perspective) is absolutely wrong, whether you're a virgin or not, whether you've never been married or been married 3 times. How would they approach a courtship between older, widowed or divorced people? I honestly don't know, but they most definitely wouldn't say, "Oh, you two aren't virgins anymore anyway - okay then, go crazy! Enjoy yourselves!" Doesn't work like that.

[Rachel333]

In the wedding of Daniel Brooker (widower of Lyndsie, who we talked a lot about on FJ) and Brittany Price, who is a widowed mother of three children, the pastor asked who gives Brittany away and made a big deal of how her father was her God-given authority figure and had decided that Daniel was the man for her.

Now they're not Duggar-level fundies and don't do chaperones and stuff, but they still buy into the patriarchal bullshit that a woman always needs to have a man above her, and Brittany having been married before didn't change that.

[jqlgoblue]

Mike Pence doesn't drink and he doesn't attend events with alcohol unless his wife is with him. Articles make it seem like he would have a drink at events where his wife is present, but his doctor's note says he doesn't drink at all. Not that I necessarily believe the doctors' notes broadly ... but I guess that is true with anyone's word on anything.

Honestly, I think Jana can't go on these things because JB is cheap. The only vacations are honeymoons and mission trips and I assume TLC has footed the bill for most of these. John David has done some stuff, but he has his own income stream (presumably). In principle I think Jana would be allowed to go if she and one of her brothers were invited, then they could watch each other. BTW did Joe have chaperones with and Kendra?

[Firebird]

@jqlgoblue Joe and kendra had chaperones. They made a huge fuss over the holy hand holding while rollerblading. It was less defrauding for her to hold a j'brother's hand or to fall on her face while skating then for her to do more than lightly touch joe's arm if she were to lose her balance.

[Chewing Gum]

2 hours ago, Firebird said:

@jqlgoblue Joe and kendra had chaperones. They made a huge fuss over the holy hand holding while rollerblading. It was less defrauding for her to hold a j'brother's hand or to fall on her face while skating then for her to do more than lightly touch joe's arm if she were to lose her balance.

The fact that they actually talked about it with her (I think her) parents before rollerskating shows how deep they feel about that. 

[CarrotCake]

If a fundie-man dies and the wife has quite some children, does she move back to her parents with the whole gang? Or can she stay by herself (considering she has the financial funds)?

And what if her parents (especially the father) already died? Does she have to move in with a brother? Or with a son if they are of age?

[Firebird]

@CarrotCake I don't think your question has a blanket answer as each fundamentalist denomination can differ greatly on that belief. Unfortunately most fundamentalist females are vastly under prepared to support themselves and tons of kids.  I know the church will sometimes step in and offer some support as well, maybe not financial, but meals and childcare etc. 

 

[Lurky]

@CarrotCake The interesting thing is most families we talk about have been started by converts.  So the Duggars/Bates/Maxwells/Andersons etc, the patriarch and matriarch are the ones who converted and chose the life, and so they probably haven't got this far in their thinking.

When Katie Morton (of the S'Mortons)'s husband went to jail, she divorced him and moved back under the protection of her parents - and the same thing has happened to Kelly after the Bradrick! divorce, as far as we can tell - and Anna Duggar moved back into the Duggar girls' dormitory when Josh was in Jesus Jail.   So I am pretty sure the plan is they move back to parents in most of the families.

I have no idea what they all expect to happen after the parents die, especially when the 2nd Gen young men are being stunted in education and money-making opportunities.   It's going to get interesting about what will happen to the 2nd Gen unmarried daughters - will they move into a brother's house to look after his children?  Or in with an unmarried brother to keep house for him?

It's like something out of a Georgian/Victorian novel, where the oldest unmarried sister has been used to running a family home, and doing things her way, and she doesn't know how she can move in with a married brother and be under their rules.  I can't imagine Jana, for example, who's been running the TTH for so long, having to defer to one of her sister-in-laws.  Or the Botkinettes bwing unpaid servants for their brothers. 

But I don't think the Patriarchs have thought this far ahead.   The plan for their daughters is to get married, and because they're Godly, nothing bad will ever happen to them.  Divorce is forbidden, so that's not going to happen /sarcasm.   If they don't get married, well, they can look after their parents into their old age, and because the patriarchs are the centre of the universe, once they die, the world will end.

[Marly]

22 minutes ago, Lurky said:

I have no idea what they all expect to happen after the parents die, especially when the 2nd Gen young men are being stunted in education and money-making opportunities.   It's going to get interesting about what will happen to the 2nd Gen unmarried daughters - will they move into a brother's house to look after his children?  Or in with an unmarried brother to keep house for him?

My maternal grandfather came from a line of very strict Catholics. He had 12 siblings, of whom four never married. Two of his sisters never married because they chose to devote their lives to Christ and became nuns, so they spent their entire adult life in a monestary. (In those days it was normal for large catholic families to have at least one sibling become a nun or monk.) The two other siblings that never married were his youngest brother and sister. They lived with their parents until the parents died, at which point brother and sister were both still under 30 years of age, and after the death of their parents they moved in together. This was the only option they had besides joining a monastery, as it was considered improper for an unmarried woman to live alone, and an unmarried man couldn’t be expected to (be able to) take care of himself. If the sister wouldn’t have had an unmarried brother to move in with, her options would have been limited to moving in with a married sibling (most likely the one with the largest family, so she could have functioned as an extra pair of hands to help with household chores and raising nieces and nephews), or becoming a nun. Same goes for the brother; without an unmarried sister, he would have had to move in with a married sibling (who would’ve most likely ended up pressuring him into a marriage with any available female), or join a monastery.
While both of them would still have been able to get married after their parents’ death, neither of them did. They both seemed to be very content with their lives. My great-uncle died aged 89, when I was about 9 or 10 years old, and my great-aunt died aged 88, when I was about 14 years old. She lived the last four years of her life on her own.
Of course, they grew up in different times, when cultural norms and values were still fairly close to religious norms and values. However, since fundies seem very fond of those ‘good old days’ when religious morals largely dictated people’s lives, I think that parallels can be drawn between these situations.