John Shrader Part 11 - God's Grifter Falling Apart

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Did he explain why?

I don't think he really went into it and I can't find the post now. I wish FB made it easier to search for stuff. If I remember correctly he just said something about renting since due to laws he couldn't purchase land for a church.

5 hours ago, BobTheWalrus said:

She may not think things are amazing, but she has been raised to believe that her husband is her ruler, and that she has to submit to his every whim. And if she doesn't then it's her fault things are bad because she wasn't submissive enough.

ITA. She may not think things are going great, but I doubt she realizes that what John is doing isn't normal. The people in her family who might tell her that what he is doing isn't okay are also people she has been raised to view as godless and not trustworthy. Churches are still sending money, his parents act like nothing he is doing is wrong and it appears so do her parents, so she will probably repress any thoughts she might have that John needs help and to change how he behaves. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

There's also not a lot she can actually do at this point. I'd be shocked if she even has her own bank account.

Leaving relationships is hard. Leaving without resources in a foreign country is even harder. Leaving with 10 children in tow is harder still. 

Could she just turn up at the embassy and ask to be sent home? IDK how that would go over. 

Her realistic options might be leaving without her children, or trying to survive as a single mother to 10 children in Zambia. Her current situation sucks, but probably not as badly as her other options.

[SuchABlessing]

In regards to Esther, remember she was raised by the same people who blamed Anna for her husband's infidelity and shamed her into staying with him, 

[slickcat79]

John has said before that he's aware he can't buy land as a non-citizen. I'm not sure how that plays into the ownership of the "church" property. I have to admit, I hadn't really considered the fact that John's church could be the owner of the land, mostly because I never imagined that John would even make an attempt at registering his church legally. 

https://www.facebook.com/john.shrader.125/posts/10207655117126184?match=ZXN0aGVyIHNocmFkZXIsbGFuZGxvcmQsc2hyYWRlcixlc3RoZXIsam9obiw%3D

It makes me wonder if this isn't John's big concern about this push to register under one of the 3 Zambian mother organizations. As long as the church owns the property, John basically has control over it. If they have to register the church differently, it may not meet established standards because it doesn't include enough of a Zambian citizen presence. If the church is shut down, what happens to the land?

I looked over the "about us" section of the Evangelical Fellowship of Zambia.

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Mission

EFZ exists to identify, empower and mobilize evangelical churches and mission agencies for the effective evangelization and transformation of Zambia.

EFZ Objectives

To provide spiritual fellowship and unity

To provide humanitarian response to disaster situations supported by long-term development interventions.

To provide a prophetic voice in matters of justice and peace

To empower the poor, marginalized and vulnerable persons and households.

To undertake research on various issues on which basis to provide theological reflection and application.

To maintain the unity of purpose.

 

I wouldn't say that John meets those standards, but I can't really see why he'd find them objectionable. The organization doesn't even seem to have an actual doctrinal statement, so I'm not sure how they could be "doctrinally corrupt". I would imagine they keep their mission statements broad on purpose, so as to not overly curtail freedom of religion while maintaining some bare minimal standards. 

[Jess]

19 hours ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

 

Could she just turn up at the embassy and ask to be sent home? IDK how that would go over.

Good question. I know the US will pay to send you home if you get stranded after they make you call everyone you can think of to beg for money. Then they get you the cheapest ticket and you lose your passport till you pay the government back with interest. I doubt they would let her take the children over his objections since they wouldn't want to interfere in a custody dispute. She is probably good and truly stuck. 

[Palimpsest]

21 hours ago, slickcat79 said:

John has said before that he's aware he can't buy land as a non-citizen. I'm not sure how that plays into the ownership of the "church" property. I have to admit, I hadn't really considered the fact that John's church could be the owner of the land, mostly because I never imagined that John would even make an attempt at registering his church legally. 

Yes, the mystery of the land ownership is as complex as the disappearing plane.  And John has always been as clear as mud over it.

I did a search and I think this is where we started to discuss it: 

He claimed back then that he bought the land for $6,000, and brushed off the concerns of other missionaries about the legality of the deal.  He then immediately starts improving the land (that he later concedes he is not allowed to buy) with a baptism pool, a well, the new Timothy House, the chicken house, and a roof over the concrete pad for his church.

We discussed whether he had registered as a church then.  It did not seem likely looking at the regulations.  He now discloses that he is not registered as an independent church.   

So who actually "owns" the land?  Did John lie about buying it?  Does Valley Liberty Baptist "Mission" own it?  Was the land purchase  put in the names of nationals?  If so, John has a nerve if he is really changing the locks on the Timothy House if his converts annoy him.  They may actually own the land.

21 hours ago, slickcat79 said:

It makes me wonder if this isn't John's big concern about this push to register under one of the 3 Zambian mother organizations. As long as the church owns the property, John basically has control over it. If they have to register the church differently, it may not meet established standards because it doesn't include enough of a Zambian citizen presence. If the church is shut down, what happens to the land?

It makes me wonder whether this push for prayer to register John's church independently has to do with the great schism with Rea.  And a fear that if he doesn't do something soon he will be shut down.

Significantly, Valley Baptist in Washington was his original sending church.  The one that dropped him.  He also discloses now that he is there legally through Valley  Liberty Baptist "Mission" (which I couldn't find) but could be the church that sponsored TeamZambia.  

John may be up shit creek.  If Valley Baptist no longer want him and he doesn't want them he has the choice of registering independently (good luck with that) or caving to a mother church.

But he is resisting being under one of the corrupt "mother churches" and I don't think his  church fits the criteria for being registered independently either.

Also his residency permit as a missionary was dependent on the sponsorship of Valley Baptist Church.  He needs to change his sending church on his Zambian paperwork.  Otherwise he's there under false pretenses. 

Chickens coming home to roost again.

[formergothardite]

16 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

So who actually "owns" the land?  Did John lie about buying it?  Does Valley Baptist "Mission" own it?  Was the land purchase  put in the names of nationals?  If so, John has a nerve if he is really changing the locks on the Timothy House if his converts annoy him.  They may actually own the land.

I wish there was a way to find who owns the land. I think John did lie about buying it, but I think in his mind he really did own it, especially if the land is in the name of one of his followers. John seems to view them all as extensions of himself, not actual people. He is the Great White Missionary coming to save these ignorant souls, I doubt the idea they could and would stand up to him ever crossed his mind. 

If Valley Baptist is tired of him(or Rea is pressuring them to drop John), then it would explain John's desperation. If they drop him it will be very hard for him to remain in Zambia. 

[formergothardite]

John got this advice in the comments, but it doesn't sound like it would work.

Quote

Brother John you can go to an attorney and create your own Society. They everything is registered under your society. Last time we checked, cost was about $450 for the attorney. Registration of the church itself is K350 and has to have yearly updates at K100. Check with the various banks about accounts for churches because some consider that a business account and require an initial deposit of K5000.

 

[Jellybean]

On 13/04/2017 at 2:38 AM, Carol said:

[snip]

I have a very vindictive cat so no ferrets.  She's just waiting for a chance to shuffle me off my mortal coil.

[snip]

I feel your cat-pain! This was a birthday card from my cat one year:

Spoiler

 

[Palimpsest]

26 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

John got this advice in the comments, but it doesn't sound like it would work.

 

This sounds like the regulations for registering societies:

http://www.homeaffairs.gov.zm/?q=registrar_of_societies

Quote

REQUIREMENTS TO REGISTER 

 

According to the Societies Act a society is defined as an association of ten or more people.  In view this ;

Ten (10) Office bearers / promoters of the society must appear on the application form. 

Ten (10) certified photocopies of the National Registration Card (NRC), Driving Licence or Passport of the office bearers in respect of Zambians.

If office bearers are Zambians,  Police fingerprint certificates of clearance must be exhibited 

If the office bearers are of foreign origin or non Zambians, a valid work permit or resident permit must be exhibited.

Letter of recommendation from the relevant line ministry

Three (3) copies of Constitution in the standard version provided by the department.

The application form must be endorsed by the police and the council secretary.

 

IN RESPECT OF NEW RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES OR CHURCHES

 

Pastors must submit professional qualifications from recognized and reputable bible schools

A confirmation letter from the place of worship

A recommendation letter from the recognized religious/ church mother bodies that are registered with Registrar of Societies.

In case of a branch of a church; a letter of recommendation from its headquarters must be attached and a photocopy of its certificate.

 

John may be hard-pressed to find 10 people who are willing to be Office Bearers at the moment.  It seems they are all being attacked by Satan.

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

But he is resisting being under one of the corrupt "mother churches" and I don't think his  church fits the criteria for being registered independently either.

It's always in plain sight, but I always forget the extent of John's belief that he, and he alone, has been anointed by God to preach the pure, true Biblical gospel in sub-Saharan Africa and Beyond (making him God's special snowflake) and Satan just HATES him for this. I do think this is why John has to "self-pastor" and can't seem to get along with anyone else.  

 I wonder if Rea would rat John out to the authorities?

A side note.  In Mexico in the past, and possibly today, non-citizens may not own land.  However, there is an option for a non-citizen to negotiate a 100-year lease that is a de facto form of land ownership.  Have no idea if Zambia allows something like this, but in foreign countries there might be different ways that a non-citizen can "own" land without technically owning it. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

A side note.  In Mexico in the past, and possibly today, non-citizens may not own land.  However, there is an option for a non-citizen to negotiate a 100-year lease that is a de facto form of land ownership.  Have no idea if Zambia allows something like this

A quick google tells me that Zambia does have "leasehold" or long term tenancy. But then why did John originally claim to have bought the land?  Even if he thought his American leg-humpers wouldn't understand leasehold it is still a lie.  

John has often been dishonest with his donors.  His flips and flops over embarrassing omissions and spins of the truth should eventually catch up to him but his remaining supporters seem to be as thick as planks.

[Gobsmacked]

Pastors have to submit recognisable qualifications from real bible schools. Can John do that? I suspect not.

He also has to agree to regular inspections. Once again no. That is not a John type thing to agree too.

 

[formergothardite]

John will not serve under anyone or answer to anyone. I think he will be moving to another mission field in the next year.

Quote

Men are fickle. They will thank you and thank God for your service and sacrifice in one breath, then castigate you in the very next

Or maybe they are just seeing you for who you really are John.

Quote

The Lord will Judge (and hopefully praise) us for our faithfulness, not our seeming "success" or "failure."

Even under John's own conservative beliefs he is only faithful to himself. 

Quote

In the eyes of men, including myself, I am a failure right now.

No way John actually views himself as a failure, but it appears pretty much everyone else does. 

Quote

Let us continue looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our Faith, no matter what others think or say about us...positive or negative.

Jesus actually helped people John, you only accumulate treasures for yourself.

Quote

A heart cry from a isolated, but not forsaken missionary in Sub-Saharan Africa

Why does he constantly mention he is in Sub-Saharan Africa? 

[Evangeline]

39 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

John will not serve under anyone or answer to anyone. I think he will be moving to another mission field in the next year.

Or maybe they are just seeing you for who you really are John.

Even under John's own conservative beliefs he is only faithful to himself. 

No way John actually views himself as a failure, but it appears pretty much everyone else does. 

Jesus actually helped people John, you only accumulate treasures for yourself.

Why does he constantly mention he is in Sub-Saharan Africa? 

My theory: so nobody is surprised when he abandons Zambia and takes the pure, unadulterated Historic Biblical Baptist Gospel to another country. I think John has known for a while that Zambia is not going to work out the way he planned. I believe God will be calling him somewhere else as soon as he can figure out how to get there.

[formergothardite]

I clicked on one of John's friends FB page and found this guy who shows the instruments he uses to beat his children. 

 

[Gobsmacked]

That is truly awful.

 

John is an isolated missionary in person only. His church or whatever is in a large town, two hours journey away from a rather large city. It's only two hours because of the traffic volume. If he is forsaken it's all of his own doing. Stupid great oaf that he is.

[formergothardite]

Looking at that guy's FB  it is clear why John can keep supporters and why none of the supporters have ever shown any concern for John's children. Guys like that are the reason John can stay in Zambia or whatever mission field he can get himself to. 

[Aine]

Not only is that supporter of Shrader's taking photos of his rods for discipline but he's also out and out sharing crazy theories on the 'harm' of education. At the least the Duggars half-pretend that their kids will get maybe some kind of training in something.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

15 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Chickens coming home to roost again.

Wait. So, the chicken business mysteriously stopped being mentioned, but now the chickens are coming home to roost? It all sounds very fowl to me. 

(I just couldn't resist.)

[formergothardite]

John gave some people a ride to Lusaka, spent the whole time making them uncomfortable by basically telling them they are going to hell, and then rants that Zambians tend to lie to be polite when they took his tracts, vaguely agreed to perhaps contact him and bolted. That really isn't a Zambian thing, though. Here in America people tend to fake politeness when someone who is helping them out tries to pressure them into doing something they don't want to do, especially if that person just won't take no for an answer. 

Quote

Even as careful as we are in our ministry, taking hours and sometimes months going through the Gospel, we still have some who have made professions that later seem to possibly be false.

John should take this as a sign that he doesn't understand the culture and/or that pressuring people into salvation like John most surely does doesn't create true conversions. 

Quote

I'm seeking to also be very honest with those who truly care for and pray for us (knowing that our enemies are even now mocking and denigrating us). That's ok, Jesus says were actually "blessed" when this happens.

I'm sure John reads here, but I suspect other people are calling him out for his lying too. You can't just drop a chicken business and a magical ministry well like it never happened and expect people to forget. 

Quote

Our hearts are broken by men who once professed that we were the very answer to their prayer for "God to send someone with the truth," and that they would "forever be grateful for our sacrifice," and now calls us hurtful names and say we are deceiving or conning people, while their very lives and words exalt and glorify what the Bible calls wickedness.

Because John did con and deceive people. He also exploited them. John always has to get a little dig at anyone who dares to not worship him. He is vindictive like that, not very Christ like, John.

Quote

Others, such as the men we were crying out to God to help us reach into Burundi with the Gospel, are going their own way and not following God's Word in their lives.

Maybe they realized Burundi didn't need John, they don't need John and that John isn't God so they don't have to follow him. This is less about them not following God and more about them not following John. 

So to sum it all up, after all his time in Zambia, John managed to create converts who turned on him, lost a plane, lost a chicken business, had a well ministry that went no where, and never did get around to building that Bible display case. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

This is less about them not following God and more about them not following John. 

Bingo! I can't imagine what kind of impossible standards John sets for his converts, or what kind of completely normal behavior counts as wickedness in John's book. Kindness, tenderness, mercy and compassion are not words we've ever used to describe John, because it seems he has never exhibited those traits. People leave because he's just not a very nice guy. He hides behind his extreme version of the Bible because he just doesn't know how to love people. 

Idle speculation here: There could be some non-quantifiable weirdness/creepiness with John that is off putting once his converts get to know him a bit better. 

ETA: Or they work like dogs to bring John's flights of fancy to fruition, only to realize that John didn't think things all the way through, and probably blames failure on them.  So many ways that things can go wrong with Bro. John. 

[Gobsmacked]

Does he even mention his fake bible college anymore? I suspect his students have run for the hills.

[Palimpsest]

14 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

Pastors have to submit recognisable qualifications from real bible schools. Can John do that? I suspect not.

He also has to agree to regular inspections. Once again no. That is not a John type thing to agree too.

 

John does have a diploma for an online "Masters" from a non-accredited Bible College in the US.  I'm pretty sure it was Emmanuel Baptist Theological Seminary in CT.  it is now defunct.

12 hours ago, Evangeline said:

My theory: so nobody is surprised when he abandons Zambia and takes the pure, unadulterated Historic Biblical Baptist Gospel to another country. I think John has known for a while that Zambia is not going to work out the way he planned. I believe God will be calling him somewhere else as soon as he can figure out how to get there.

Let's start a book on it.  I still think he'd rather stay in Africa so if he's burned his Zambian bridges where will he go? I think Burundi is out.  It's too dangerous for John at the moment with an unstable government and he isn't known for his courage.  Also Arcade can spread the word that he's unreliable.  

My vote is for Botswana.  It seems to be the next hot spot for fake "missionaries."

Quote

I'm seeking to also be very honest with those who truly care for and pray for us

That's a first!

Quote

Others, such as the men we were crying out to God to help us reach into Burundi with the Gospel, are going their own way and not following God's Word in their lives.

So John has confirmed that Arcade and Jolis have blown him off.  Perhaps they have discerned that you are a false prophet John.  That is why they are following "God's Word" not your twisted version of scripture.

Another missionary in Kenya responds to John's protracted whine.

Quote

Scott Laurie Hall Well written and a major problem in Kenya as well. Most will just do what the "white man" says, just to make him happy. Just read a letter of a man that was in Kenya recently. Said he led 60 people to Christ and "that wasnt even my intention". Makes the work even harder for us that labour full time in these countries to sort it all out. Im glad Gods qriting all the names down. Only He knows.

Jolis's reply to both is priceless!  

Quote

Kapolo Jolisman Act17:26.,

"And has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;"

A scriptural way to say "Get back to your own country, you assholes!"

[samurai_sarah]

24 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

(snip)

A scriptural way to say "Get back to your own country, you assholes!"

Or "learn and listen", which sadly he is unlikely to do.