John Shrader Part 11 - God's Grifter Falling Apart

[Gobsmacked]

 The people with whom John has come into contact with in Zambia have been kind, intelligent and willing to give a stranger a chance. Unfortunately the trust they have put in John has  been abused  and enabled him to carry out his scams for almost three years now.

 

[clearingthingsup]

Oh John Shrader your chickens are coming home to roost. The locals found free jinger & they are shocked by your ridiculous behavior & deception. It's about time. 

[formergothardite]

@clearingthingsup, do you still support Rea, because he just seems terrible. Like really, really bad. He shows literally no indication of God's love or compassion. He has a very cocky attitude. The cat incident alone is a red flag there is something wrong in his family. And he got a bit snippy about that. 

[formergothardite]

One of the bothersome things about both Rea and Shrader is that the people of Zambia wouldn't have had to search the internet and read a message board to see John's corruption carefully spelled out if the people in IFB had done their due diligence before sending two fools to Zambia. The blame for this is fully in the lap of the IFB churches who gave and continue to give money. 

In the IFB church we went to when I was a child every Wednesday they would read letters from missionaries. I don't remember the missionary or where he was, but there was one guy writing that about how hard it was to sometimes control his annoyance at the people he was trying to convert, but that it was important to make sure to always respond with a Christ like spirit because doing otherwise could drive people away from hearing the gospel. His hat was stolen and the guy who stole it just wore it around. His first reaction was anger, but then he decided it wasn't his hat , but God's hat so he shouldn't worry about it. Eventually he was able to lead the man who stole his hat to Christ and the man said that he was trying to make him angry by stealing the hat, but when he didn't react, the man wanted to know more about his God.*

Compare that to Rea shoving and intimidating someone who he is supposed to be there to convert. And the terrible thing is that no one in the comments seem to think he did anything wrong. Something is very wrong in these churches.

*Like most missionary stories from my childhood, I now often wonder how true these things are. I suspect that there was a whole lot of stretching the truth. And now that I think about it, the hat story is a lot like the pineapple story that was big in IBLP. But at least the message is better than Rea's message of torturing animals and shoving people. 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, clearingthingsup said:

The locals found free jinger & they are shocked by your ridiculous behavior & deception. It's about time. 

Do you know this for a fact?  According to @shraderfriend, Shrader is well aware that we exist but it isn't obvious to me yet that the locals are reading here.  They may have figured him out all by themselves.

I'm also interested in what you think of David Rea's recent performances.  Shoving locals and torturing cats isn't very Christian behavior or behavior becoming to a missionary.

[Gobsmacked]

I can't find the Rea posts at all. Could someone link please? Thanks.

[Palimpsest]

Just now, Gobsmacked said:

I can't find the Rea posts at all. Could someone link please? Thanks.

I can't see them either.  Rea's FB is set to private unless you are a friend of a friend, like FG. 

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

I can't find the Rea posts at all. Could someone link please? Thanks.

His page is private, but you can see if you share mutual friends, which I do. Some local IFB I know are friends with him on FB because their church is supporting him. Unlike John, Rea doesn't accept friend requests from total strangers. 

[Gobsmacked]

Thanks for answering. That's a shame! 

Thanks to everyone who keeps us blocked peeps updated with John boys shennanagins  also. 

[usedbicycle]

20 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

Here's a question. If John brought some people to Christ (I don't believe his way is  the right way, but let's say for the sake of argument it is) they're eternally saved, right? So if they stop kissing John's butt, is their salvation compromised in his eyes? Are they now going to hell if they don't follow him?

I just don't get it. Cause if they're still saved but not following his ways, then why does anyone need to follow his ways? 

Most soul-winners are complete hypocrites for this exact reason. They go around harassing people, making it seem like going to Heaven is the easiest thing ever. It's a 100% free gift! Just say the magic words!  Then you'll be saved forever! You don't even have to stop sinning and be a good person! Who wants to risk burning in Hell? 

And like with any scam, then comes the fine print. Actually, you have to start attending hours-long sermons twice a week, you'll have to either convert or shun most of your friends and family, give 10% of your earnings to church, get approval from church elders before making any life decision, and we're going to control every tiny aspect of your life from the way you dress, to what thoughts are allowed, what you eat and drink, how you have sex, how (not) to dance, what music to listen to, how to teach your kids, how to beat your kids... Or whatever that particular cult/pastor/church's rules are.

When the person goes "Hey, I didn't sign up for this!", the soul-winner can respond "But it's all right here in the Bible. Did you LIE when you said you loved Jesus?" So the person has no choice but to accept it all, or reject it and be condemned to hell by that same person who tried to "save" them.

Ray Comfort and all the Living Waters scammers do this. Steven Anderson does this. Hell, even Jill Dullard thinks this way. From their last mission update : "On one of the recent home visits with the team, several of the ladies and I were able to talk with one young momma who used to come to church but has since stopped coming. We were able to clearly present the gospel and explain to her that “being a Christian” isn’t about just “praying a prayer for God to take you to heaven...”

Dude, that's LITERALLY how you got her to convert in the first place, by telling her all she needed to do was recite the sinner's prayer. If you were requiring her to become a fervent member of your SOS Missions church and follow your exact rules and restrictions, then you should have told her that beforehand. 

The manipulation is intense with these folk. More power to anyone who decides to think for themselves after having been sucked in, like Jolis and Arcade , because it's a tough decision that involves fear of eternal torment in Hell.

 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

And like with any scam, then comes the fine print.

Everything you said.  Also see $cientology.  Classic. The manipulation is intense.

John is actually trying to set up his own "Christian" cult.  He is super-special with his Historic Biblical Baptist scam.  He is so much better than all those other Christians in Zambia who have had it all wrong.  Prosperity Gospel is paramount in John's conversion attempts - because John's donors miraculously provide.  To him - but not to his "converts" who must toe John's line exactly.

John offers all the answers - until he doesn't.  Challenge John and he points to the tiny print.  Then he ban hammers anyone who disagrees with the man who has been hiding behind the supposedly "Christian" curtain.

I think the "converts" who have escaped are lucky.  Let us all send positive thoughts to Roderick and Jacqueline.  May they soon run like hell too from this false preacher.  Very soon.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Sorry did I miss the part where they converts found FJ?

or is this just speculation? (I love speculating don't get me wrong, just want to know!) 

[clearingthingsup]

I guess it's just speculating. It's been awhile since I looked in on John & it seems from handias posting he may have been reading heee but it's just a guess. Things seem to really be going haywire though

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, clearingthingsup said:

I guess it's just speculating. It's been awhile since I looked in on John & it seems from handias posting he may have been reading heee but it's just a guess. Things seem to really be going haywire though

I guess your not even going to try to address if you support the terrible person that is David Rea? If you don't support him anymore, I would think you would just say so. If you do still think he is a good missionary, shouldn't you be able to defend him? If you can't defend his actions, you should think long and hard about why you still support the man.

Think about why Rea treated that guy as someone to be shoved and intimidated instead of someone to shower with God's love and try to save. His whole reason for being there is to bring people to Christ, yet when faced with someone who(in his mind) clearly needed God, he just pushed him away from God, not towards him. According to his own beliefs, he pushed someone towards hell. Tell me, what sort of missionary is he? 

[clearingthingsup]

David Rea would never have even been on your radar if it hadn't been for John. He isn't ATI or IBLP and never has been. His worst faults according to you are occasional cultural insensitivity & disorganization, and his kids laughed at a cat being swung by some other kids (straight outta Looney tunes, I swear) and he glared at a man trying to intimidate him in the middle of the street. I'm not going to address whether I still support him, I mean, I'm not personally sending him any money, so I guess no? Kinda irrelevant though cause I have literally 0 control over who can and will choose to send him money 

Let's talk about Esther & the kids. Let's talk about John's "converts". I am genuinely afraid that they could be in real danger especially as John visibly is becoming more and more unstable. 

I mean recently there was a post on Esther's account along the lines of "let's not duplicate tings, just follow me on John's account". That was NOT Esther posting that I can tell you for sure, it has John written all over it. I'm really concerned that John will eventually close down Esther's account altogether and what little control she does have over it will be completely gone - she will have literally NO connection to the outside world without John's account. I have a feeling John is feeling like he's losing control - he's gonna reign his control in tighter on what he CAN control - his wife & kids. Maybe she's been questioning his decision making skills (though I doubt it knowing her, but maybe) & he decided he was going to take away her ability to message friends or family about it without his interfering. That is some scary stuff. Like you all have already pointed out, she is screwed if she wants to leave because she literally CAN'T with eleventy kids. 

What about the kids? The only kid I've seen John show any actual praise or admiration of other than "you're so cute because you love me & make me feel good about myself" type narcissistic-parent typical crap is Enoch because hes a super spesshhl firstborn. The other kids are lucky if they get a line or two once a year. 

What happens to arcade who's in the middle of a politically unstable country because JOHN SENT HIM THERE & now John is removing all support from him & calling for his leg jumpers to do the same? 

What happens to Jolis who John supposedly threw out of the Timothy house, I'm sure he's literally at a loss of what to do - his family is in Burundi, again politically unstable, wheres he going to go? 

What happens to all the other men of the church that John pissed off & "disciplined"?

What happens to the people who are still supporting him? Roderick & Boyd I think? 

John's not known for his emotional stability - hind sight is 20/20 & I can see quite clearly now (why is it that it's always LATER that we can see clearly!?!? Obviously I'm frustrated with myself for not being aware but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt & assume good intentions) he has fits of rage from time to time - like scary rage that made me uncomfortable to be around him but he somehow managed to fool others into thinking it was just passion - my blinders are off now!!! I am so mad at myself I never saw it before. But narcissistic people are SO deceptive - they never say what they actually mean and they're good at making you like them. John can be likable in person, there's just that 10% of him that's a total butthole. That's what makes narcissists so dangerous come to find out.

All this rant of mine to say the most important thing - what happens if John goes literally off the deep end. Like David koresh off the deep end. I am sick to my stomach just thinking about it. I personally KNOW & grew to love those kids. I am angry that John was ever encouraged to go to Zambia seeing what I see now ... But I cannot blame myself too hard because although my church sent him there, I had zero authority to speak up & voice my concerns - as you all know ifb churches give supreme authority to the pastor/s. Again hindsight 20/20. 

My stomach is in knots because I can literally see him doing this. I wish I could come up with some game plan to help Esther & the kids get away from this sicko *before* the crap really hits the fan but I am at a loss. I have no way of actually contacting her without her husband as the middle man. 

I do want to thank FJers for teaching me about narcissists because I literally had no idea what that actually meant before coming here & y'all prompted me to do a lot of researching & bookworming on the topic. Turns out there are quite a few narcissists in my life & I'm easily manipulated because I'm an empathic personality. Life sucks. Good people get thrown down the crapshoot far too often.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

@clearingthingsupthanks for the post

 

we can all be manipulated by others & admitting you were is admirable. As is your obvious concern about Esther & the kids. I feel horrible for them. John is a real piece of work and he's hoodwinked many people, not just your church. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, clearingthingsup said:

David Rea would never have even been on your radar if it hadn't been for John. He isn't ATI or IBLP and never has been. His worst faults according to you are occasional cultural insensitivity & disorganization, and his kids laughed at a cat being swung by some other kids (straight outta Looney tunes, I swear) and he glared at a man trying to intimidate him in the middle of the street. I'm not going to address whether I still support him, I mean, I'm not personally sending him any money, so I guess no? Kinda irrelevant though cause I have literally 0 control over who can and will choose to send him money 

You realize we don't just focus on ATI and IBLP, correct? John only got picked up because someone discovered Esther's crazy post about radiation. Rea could just have easily have been found. We discuss tons of IBLP missionaries and pastors. He does seem to hide his light under a basket a good bit, so his crazy isn't as obvious. But from what I can see, there is a hell of a lot of crazy with Rea. He isn't one iota better than John. He is just better at keeping it off the public internet so we can't discuss it. 

His worst faults are he is a terrible, terrible missionary. Don't downplay what happened. His children laughed at another child torturing an animal and instead of learning from the people responding, David responded with hate and scorn. Not exactly a man showing any fruits of the spirit, was he? This isn't the first time he has posted about treating animals poorly. 

David didn't just glare, he shoved the man. A man he was there trying to save. The man didn't shove him. And of course, David, had to make sure everyone knew the man was short, so short he could easily cram him in a garbage can. There was no sense in that remark. It was again, David trying to tear down and belittle the very person he was there to save. His worst faults, according to his beliefs is he pushes people towards hell and rejecting Christ. That is a fairly large fault to have in a missionary.

The lesson from John is that you watch for early warning signs that a person is going to be a bad, bad person and missionary. Hopefully before you ship them off to another country.  People downplayed those early signs with John just like you are doing with Rea. Rea is showing himself to be just as terrible as John. The warning signs are there, don't downplay them. 

 

[Palimpsest]

@clearingthingsup, I think you are very upset by this so I'm going to answer your post in detail.

2 hours ago, clearingthingsup said:

David Rea would never have even been on your radar if it hadn't been for John. He isn't ATI or IBLP and never has been.

Rea might not have been on our radar if it were not for John, but we discuss far more than IBLP and ATI here.  We look at anyone who we think to be an "extreme Fundamentalist."  Rea fits our profile.

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His worst faults according to you are occasional cultural insensitivity & disorganization, and his kids laughed at a cat being swung by some other kids (straight outta Looney tunes, I swear) and he glared at a man trying to intimidate him in the middle of the street.

Those are very big faults in a missionary.  And (I can't see his FB myself but I trust @formergothardite's report) I believe Rea was boasting about having "shoved" a shorter man in the street.  Rea is a very large man.  I would not want his hands put aggressively on me, and I'm sure the local felt the same.  Rea is a visitor and a resident alien and should treat all nationals with respect.  Shoving someone is not OK and being an American will not help him if he gets into a fight will a national.

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I'm not going to address whether I still support him, I mean, I'm not personally sending him any money, so I guess no? Kinda irrelevant though cause I have literally 0 control over who can and will choose to send him money 

Well, I am glad you are not personally sending Rea financial support.  Is your church?

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Let's talk about Esther & the kids. Let's talk about John's "converts". I am genuinely afraid that they could be in real danger especially as John visibly is becoming more and more unstable. 

Do you think Shrader could become violent?  I don't think he has guns because if he did he would be shooting snakes instead of running over them with his car.

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I mean recently there was a post on Esther's account along the lines of "let's not duplicate tings, just follow me on John's account". That was NOT Esther posting that I can tell you for sure, it has John written all over it. I'm really concerned that John will eventually close down Esther's account altogether and what little control she does have over it will be completely gone - she will have literally NO connection to the outside world without John's account.

That is troubling.  However, she still has snail mail.  Other missionaries are in contact with the family, and if people like the Sauders are not keeping an eye on Esther and the kids I would be very surprised.

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What about the kids? The only kid I've seen John show any actual praise or admiration of other than "you're so cute because you love me & make me feel good about myself" type narcissistic-parent typical crap is Enoch because hes a super spesshhl firstborn. The other kids are lucky if they get a line or two once a year. 

I share your concern for the children and Esther, believe me.  

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What happens to arcade who's in the middle of a politically unstable country because JOHN SENT HIM THERE & now John is removing all support from him & calling for his leg jumpers to do the same? 

Arcade is Burundian and (granted we can't trust John's word) apparently his visa and work permit ran out in Zambia.  I wonder whether he could have applied for refugee status. The situation in Burundi is very bad.  The President is encouraging a reign of terror over anyone who opposes his government after a hotly contested (and probably flawed) election process.  It is ugly.  

So Arcade is back in Burundi and I really hope he is safe.  However, John did not SEND him there.  John does not have that power. 

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What happens to Jolis who John supposedly threw out of the Timothy house, I'm sure he's literally at a loss of what to do - his family is in Burundi, again politically unstable, wheres he going to go? 

What happens to all the other men of the church that John pissed off & "disciplined"?

What happens to the people who are still supporting him? Roderick & Boyd I think? 

Jolis will have to find somewhere else to live.  He is an electrician and presumably has work. This is not the first time John has chucked people out of the Timothy House.  He evicted his disciples when he needed the original Timothy House for his own family.  Were they living there rent free?  I wouldn't put it past John to have made them pay rent.  John has never given any financial support to his followers, to my knowledge.  He preaches against that.

What happens to all John's supporters?  I think they have been spiritually abused.  Poor Jolis - here he is on FB:

"Kapolo Jolisman:  I can not put myself among the great for the walk in Christ is not easy but it takes the spirit of the Lord to strength me.I can be an enemy to some because of doing right or wrong but may the Lord God correct me if I did what I could to be despised or not taken the scriptures seriously.,Salvation is not what we can do but is what our Lord Jesus Christ already done."

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John's not known for his emotional stability - hind sight is 20/20 & I can see quite clearly now (why is it that it's always LATER that we can see clearly!?!? Obviously I'm frustrated with myself for not being aware but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt & assume good intentions

Well, you are wiser now.  I place more blame on the system and the IFB pastors who should be screening for the narcissistic Johns of this world.  I still don't think Rea is much better that John.

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 But I cannot blame myself too hard because although my church sent him there, I had zero authority to speak up & voice my concerns - as you all know ifb churches give supreme authority to the pastor/s. Again hindsight 20/20. 

Are there literally no "elders" or "deacons" within IFB churches to control for pastors going off the deep end?  Are you still with an IFB church now you see how the pastor can abuse his power?

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My stomach is in knots because I can literally see him doing this. I wish I could come up with some game plan to help Esther & the kids get away from this sicko *before* the crap really hits the fan but I am at a loss. I have no way of actually contacting her without her husband as the middle man. 

Honestly, no you are not that helpless.  If you know her personally send her a letter or a card.   Share your concerns with your pastor and have your church contact John's father or one of the other IFB missionaries in the area.

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Honestly, no you are not that helpless.  If you know her personally send her a letter or a card.   Share your concerns with your pastor and have your church contact John's father or one of the other IFB missionaries in the area.

This is a very good point. @clearingthingsup can do way more than we can. We are total strangers on the internet, you actually know them. Contact Esther and try to maintain contact on a regular basis. Send her FB messages, daily, asking about her and the kids and just making small talk. Even if John is reading them first, it will let Esther know she is not forgotten.  If John refuses all contact with Esther,  call his father's church and start pestering them. Again, daily.  If you know other churches that are sending John money, contact them with your concerns. And keep at it. 

All the IFB churches I know voted on supporting missionaries. It wasn't just the pastor deciding. 

[Palimpsest]

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

@clearingthingsup can do way more than we can. We are total strangers on the internet, you actually know them.

Yes, that was my thought but you put it more clearly.  He or she can do a lot more than we can and can keep in touch with Esther.  

I originally thought Clearingthingsup was a man but I am leaning towards this being a woman now.  If she cannot share her valid concerns for Esther with her pastor and her church - then IMO that is not a church to which anyone should belong.

Back to the IFB "system" for sending out these "missionaries."  Granted, John is exceptionally awful as a missionary, unstable, and should not have slipped through the cracks.

However, the system is deeply flawed and Rea is an accident waiting to happen too.  I disapprove strongly of evangelism-only missionaries and think they should stay home.  However, if they must send the idiots overseas, they should be better trained and educated, better prepared, culturally sensitive, and able to do much more than simply church plant.  

All these supporting churches should look at their responsibilities and priorities.  It is downright irresponsible to sic Reas and Shraders on Africa.  The churches are potentially placing the women and children in jeopardy too.

 

Oh, and in other news, Shrader posted Daddy's Resurrection Sunday sermon because it moved him to tears.  I have not listened to more than a few seconds of it (turn the sound down if you try because it is deafening).  I noticed that Rick Shrader pronounces Sunday to rhyme with Fundie.  Is that a TX accent?

[formergothardite]

23 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

It is downright irresponsible to sic Reas and Shraders on Africa.  The churches are potentially placing the women and children in jeopardy too.

I was thinking about how Rea's dog tried to attack a local who dropped by to visit, but instead ending up attacking Rea's wife, and hurting her pretty bad. What if she hadn't gotten between them, and the dog had torn into the local person? What if it was a local child? Or one of his children? Combine a dog like this with a cocky, culturally insensitive missionary who shoves people and you have a recipe for disaster.

[clearingthingsup]

Unfortunately, no I can't help Esther. FJ is literally my only way of seeing how they're doing because John blocked my Facebook account. So I look to you guys for updates. I have literally no way of contacting her, I don't even have her mailing address. 

As for putting the blame on pastors & leadership for Shrader getting where he is - you absolutely should do that. It was a super stupid decision they made. 

But don't blame so many of the people of the church because in a lot of situations they don't have control. And in a lot of the situations they *are* brainwashed. 

You don't automatically just *know* you're in a cult. And not just stupid people fall into cults. I would think you guys of all people would know that. Maybe try being a little less critical of other victims of crazies. You all seriously have all the sympathy for people in Africa who were conned by John but seem to have nothing but contempt for people in the states who were conned by his contemporaries. 

1 hour ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

@clearingthingsupthanks for the post

 

we can all be manipulated by others & admitting you were is admirable. As is your obvious concern about Esther & the kids. I feel horrible for them. John is a real piece of work and he's hoodwinked many people, not just your church. 

Thank you. 

[SuchABlessing]

35 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Oh, and in other news, Shrader posted Daddy's Resurrection Sunday sermon because it moved him to tears.  I have not listened to more than a few seconds of it (turn the sound down if you try because it is deafening).  I noticed that Rick Shrader pronounces Sunday to rhyme with Fundie.  Is that a TX accent?

I live near Philly and I have a ton of in laws that talk like that. Every day of the week ends in "Dee" (mondee, tuesdee, etc) I always thought it was a low-classish way to talk (also saying "youse guys" and things like that). I know that sounds EXTREMELY snobby of me, but to me it's just one of those dialects that are like nails on a chalkboard to my ears. 

[StacyW]

@clearingthingsup thanks for presenting your perspective. The uneasiness about John's family must be so much greater for someone who actually knows them

[Georgiana]

I don't think something being straight out of Looney Tunes is a great defense.  Even as a CARTOON, Looney Tunes shows it's age and a lot of the material included in it I found problematic as a kid back in the 90s.  

Doesn't mean you can't find it funny AS A CARTOON, but kids should know (and most do) that behavior that happens in cartoons is not always funny in real life.  Violence in cartoons is funny because it is fake and absurd.  No one is hurt, there is no suffering, and often it's predicated on things that are impossible in the real world anyway.

But WATCHING a LIVING ANIMAL suffer and finding it funny is SERIOUSLY DISTURBING.  If someone dropped a piano and crushed a guy, would that be OK to laugh at too?  Or twisted his gun to blow up in his face?  Because that DEFINITELY is straight out of Looney Tunes.