Jinger/Jeremy: Not as Interesting as Jingerbread

[nausicaa]

On 4/13/2017 at 11:14 PM, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

Yeah, us Anglicans don't have officially prescribed days of fasting and abstinence, nor do we do the Stations of the Cross, but that doesn't mean Lent isn't a big deal, it's just that the way that looks is different.  We are encouraged to use Lent as a time of contemplation and prayer,and some definitely practice some form of abstinence during Lent. Some of the prayer etc. is done privately, but there are some extra (sometimes rather somber because if the season) services held at the church.  As far as fish Frys and Stone Soup Suppers, I suspect that varies from parish to parish rather than being a Catholic/Protestant thing. My Anglican church has done the Stone Soup thing during Lent, my husband's Catholic church doesn't usually do any social functions during Lent. 

I go to an Episcopalian church and my understanding is that the Episcopal Church prescribes fasting and abstinence on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, just like the Roman Catholic Church. 

I'm surprised at the people saying they don't think Anglicans/Episcopalians do as much during Lent as Roman Catholics. At my church nearly everyone is talking about what they are giving up/taking on for Lent, there is a special Wednesday prayer supper throughout Lent, and other charity drives and Bible reading efforts. My church also won't marry anyone during Lent. And we are considered low church, not high church. 

I was raised Catholic and it is the same as what I grew up with. 

[nausicaa]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:08 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Not really meaning to snark at you specifically, but I've seen several people say that the only way she's going to be really free is to go to college. 1. these kids aren't going to any college anytime soon, not with the SOTDRT "education" they won't pass entrance exams. 2. Xan we stop the bull shit notion that you MUST have a college education to be successful. The U.S. is facing a MAJOR crisis in employment sectors of skilled trades, plumbesr, electricians, HVAC, welders, mechanics etc.. those dirty looked down upon jobs that "poor" people do. Many of these trades are saying by 2020 they will be in such high demand that the trained ones can be making close to 6 figures because they are in that high of demand. Any one of those Duggar men and women can get a trade job and make more than enough to support themselves, and a family, no 4 year degree and 10s of thousands of dollars in debt required.  Yes it is dirty back breaking work but we need to get away from the notion that the peole who do this are less than, because with out them we'd be living in tents and swimming in shit & piss. //hops off soap box 

I think people focus on college for the Duggars because JimBob and Michelle have been so vocal in putting it down, so a daughter going would be like the ultimate finger to their parents. Also, if it were a public liberal arts university, the kids would have to take classes like philosophy, biology, world religion, women's studies, or psychology. (As an aside, I think there is something to be said for the exposure a liberal arts degree forces you to have to different subjects and viewpoints.)

It would be totally kick ass for Jinger or Joy to become a journeyman carpenter or certified plumber and I'd be fist pumping up a storm at my computer. I just want them to be able to think for themselves, have an identity outside of their husbands, and have some job skill that they could use if they ever needed to support themselves.

I've long wondered why the deadbeat Quiverfull fathers don't go to a two year trade school and actually learn a trade that they could support their large broods on. They could avoid loans, possibly set their own hours, and it's "manly" enough to fit their worldview. Honestly, I think most of them are just too lazy. 

[SeekingAdventure]

I'm a bit behind on the discussion about the Wifey Shirt.

Obviously, for the Fundies (Jessa etc) it is just something that says: yay, look at me, I'm married and I have kids, because really there's not much more she can bring to the table (sorry, thats a bit mean, but...).

I recently did a training to work as a flight attendant and one of the other girls had almost the same shirt. She's a newlywed, but she's also an actress and she is working as a flight attendant as well now, and when I saw the shirt I found it very cute. So i sort of find it cute on Jessa too, only she doesn't have anything else than that. That is what I find sad.

 

On the topic of university degrees. I am 25 years now, I never went to Uni, just because I did not know what I wanted to study exactly and I am not spending a lot of money and at least 4 years for a degree I do not want to work in (also, unnecessary...) I ended up working in a transport company for 4 years, managed to pay for trips to Australia, New Zealand, the States and Interrail in Europe for each 3 or 4 weeks, and buying a car, and then being able to travel through South America for a year without having to worry about money, which I think is pretty good. I work as a flight attendant now, and I earn less money than before, but I love it, and I think thats the most important.

But I have so many friends who go to University just because everyone does it and if they do not know what to study then they study business studies and 90% of them will not use the degree, so I really see no point in it. And I think it is even more bizarre in the states. But yea

 

[Jana814]

57 minutes ago, SeekingAdventure said:

 

But I have so many friends who go to University just because everyone does it and if they do not know what to study then they study business studies and 90% of them will not use the degree, so I really see no point in it. And I think it is even more bizarre in the states. But yea

 

II feel I went to college because it was expected of me. I did not graduate though. If I had to do it over again I think I would have done community college first. 

[AlternativeVoice]

49 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

II feel I went to college because it was expected of me. I did not graduate though. If I had to do it over again I think I would have done community college first. 

Same here. I did it because there was no conversation about any alternatives. It was just the natural process in my family. High school, college, grad school, job, then marriage etc. Instead I did college , baby, a few different jobs not in my field, marry, job,  another baby. My husband never went to college but makes a pretty decent enough living so that I don't have to work right now while the kiddos are young. I've never made anything close to what he did even with my degree. 

[Percy]

My oldest is at university and loving it.

My youngest did one year and left.  She did not like her course and I did not like her piling up debt for no reward.  She has taken this year off uni and is working in retail and volunteering until she decides what she wants to do.

People need to do what is right for them, I think a lot of people go to university because they can not think of what else to do.

Jinger will not go to college, in my opinion, she will get caught up in being the ministers wife and all that goes along with that role.

[ak1188]

On 4/11/2017 at 1:19 AM, PainfullyAware said:

Although I don't stay home by choice, it's really made me reevaluate my feminism around work/home. I used to pay lip service to the choice to work or stay at home but really wondered why anyone would choose the latter. I didn't have a lot of respect for that choice. But now I think about all the valuable contributions made and personal satisfaction gained by spouses who stay at home.

So true.  When I was much younger, I literally could not wrap my head around why anyone would choose to stay home if working was an option.  Now as an adult, I can say that  my house ran so much more smoothly before I started working and I miss having the time to pursue outside interests, not to mention having quiet time to myself to recharge.  I'm on a 6 week LOA from work right now, and thought that I would use this time to get the house back into shape, but instead I'm on FJ and watching weekend movies on E!.  We can put that under personal satisfaction, right? Because I am 100% satisfied right now.

 

I got a 4 year degree in anthropology because everyone said that employers only cared that you had a degree and the subject doesn't matter, so I used the time in college to follow my interests.  But I graduated in the middle of the Great Recession, found out that I had gotten fantastically bad advice and was basically unemployable outside of retail.  Went back, got an associates in an allied health field, and am working in a rewarding career and making a comfortable living in a high cost of living area.  I loved my anthro coursework and my entire college experience, I just wish I had been better prepared for the economic reality post graduation.  Now I try  to make sure the college-bound kids I run into are aware that a 4 year degree isn't necessarily the end all be all.

[Four is Enough]

I have always admired people who are content to stay at home. I must admit that I am not. I have actually resented the expectation that because I was not working for wages, I'd be happy and satisfied to clean floors and toilets, grocery shop, do laundry, and cook for people. Nope. Don't like any of that, and me not working has not changed any of that.  And... kids are boring, including, sometimes, my own. Or at least the interests I have , like sewing and reading and actually watching a television show to the end, my children do not share. 

While I spent hours on the floor piling up blocks, reading "Hop on Pop", and playing with Play Doh, Godzilla, or the Rescue Heroes, my heart wasn't always in it.

[jqlgoblue]

I totally agree that college doesn't make sense for everyone, but I also agree with the idea that the fastest and most impactful way for a Duggar to get socialized in main stream society would be to go to either community or a state college. 

I think it's also clear that if they are in search of a decent job and paycheck there are many faster / better ways to go about it, basically any type of trade school.

[calimojo]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I have always admired people who are content to stay at home. I must admit that I am not. I have actually resented the expectation that because I was not working for wages, I'd be happy and satisfied to clean floors and toilets, grocery shop, do laundry, and cook for people. Nope. Don't like any of that, and me not working has not changed any of that.  And... kids are boring, including, sometimes, my own. Or at least the interests I have , like sewing and reading and actually watching a television show to the end, my children do not share. 

While I spent hours on the floor piling up blocks, reading "Hop on Pop", and playing with Play Doh, Godzilla, or the Rescue Heroes, my heart wasn't always in it.

I appreciate you sharing this very honest post.  I worked part time when my kids were small, and I always felt pulled between one world and the other, never feeling like I was getting it right in either one.  Many days were great.  I would have been happy staying home full time, for awhile.  But doing it part time, meant that I could not really find a rhythm.    Parenting is hard and I think it is helpful when parents can admit that and be open and not judge each other when we admit there are some days that are not filled with sunshine and rainbows. 

 

One word of caution though, from my own life experience.  One time, several years back,  my mom confessed to me that she found parenting to be a bore.  Those words still bother me greatly.  While I am all for honesty,  in general,  I do think there are some things that parents shouldn't say to their kids as it hurts.    No child, even one that is fully grown up, wants to know that her mom or dad, found raising them to be boring.  Even though I as an adult and a parent could understand what she meant to some degree it was still a hurtful thing to hear. 

[just_ordinary]

4 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

While I spent hours on the floor piling up blocks, reading "Hop on Pop", and playing with Play Doh, Godzilla, or the Rescue Heroes, my heart wasn't always in it.

I read Hop on Pop to my nephew when we visited. Little did I know. This book will never ever set foot only home! So so happy that Dr. Seuss is not well known in my country. I love reading to children but my rule is only to read books that I can enjoy too. There a thousands of wonderful books for every age that are fun to read for adults too. I believe Dr. Seuss just hated parents.

 

Happy Easter, everyone 

[Greendoor]

On 4/13/2017 at 0:39 PM, Georgiana said:

That's true, but Lent is much longer than just the week before.  Lent actually ends mid-way through Holy Week (and before most of the Holy Week celebrations), so Holy Week is generally treated as it's own season and not part of Lent.  

Lenten activities/the Lenten season is most commonly associated with Catholic and Orthodox communities.  Some Protestant denominations do observe Lent, but I do not believe many treat it as the same season of fasting, penance, etc. that Catholics/Orthodox do.  Catholics also often have Lenten social activities such as Stone Soup Suppers, Stations, Fish Frys, etc.  It is a very busy time for a parish, and while I've heard of Protestant churches doing extra things during Lent, I've never gotten the impression it's treated as the huge deal it is in Catholicism.  

Holy Week is generally busy for everyone, but I feel like there may have been less eye rolling if the person was asking Jinger about Holy Week/Preparing for Easter at her church instead of asking about something that it is very unlikely she observes.  

Anglican (Episcopal) is teasingly said to be Catholic-light.  We have much Liturgy in common.

 

[nastyhobbitses]

6 hours ago, calimojo said:

I appreciate you sharing this very honest post.  I worked part time when my kids were small, and I always felt pulled between one world and the other, never feeling like I was getting it right in either one.  Many days were great.  I would have been happy staying home full time, for awhile.  But doing it part time, meant that I could not really find a rhythm.    Parenting is hard and I think it is helpful when parents can admit that and be open and not judge each other when we admit there are some days that are not filled with sunshine and rainbows. 

 

One word of caution though, from my own life experience.  One time, several years back,  my mom confessed to me that she found parenting to be a bore.  Those words still bother me greatly.  While I am all for honesty,  in general,  I do think there are some things that parents shouldn't say to their kids as it hurts.    No child, even one that is fully grown up, wants to know that her mom or dad, found raising them to be boring.  Even though I as an adult and a parent could understand what she meant to some degree it was still a hurtful thing to hear. 

My mom has openly admitted to me that she didn't enjoy several aspects of motherhood; the way she put it to me was that she loved when I was an infant, and then when I became an adult, and the in-between was a real chore. She obviously loves me a lot (and I love her), but she basically admitted that she started to enjoy motherhood when I had gotten old enough to have a real conversation and be self-sufficient. I told her that the years she didn't enjoy as much were all getting me to that point. I think that's shaped the sort of philosophy I will have about parenting if I ever have children; yes, it's going to suck having to watch the same movie over and over and endure the dirty looks when my kid starts screaming bloody murder at Costco, it's going to suck having to nag my kid to do her damn homework, and it's going to suck dealing with teenage hormones, but it's all going to be with the goal of molding my kid into an honest, engaging, and self-sufficient person.

[purjolok84]

Healthcare here is good. Our government is trying to gut Medicare but they won't get all the changes through they want. 
Heres an example of our care. Yesterday I found a lump on my neck. So, Monday. I have a GP appointment on Thursday that will be bulkbilled. I will have to pay for blood tests if I need them. They will be approx $100. 
I also have rheumatoid arthritis and depression. My meds for my RA run me $30 a month and my depression meds $40. I don't pay to see specialists for either, being a public patient just means having to wait occasionally but NOT in an emergency. If god forbid my lump is something, I will be treated straight away without payment.
so yeah, universal health care works. And I can speak from experience, unlike you vegancupcake 

Medicare is pretty good - I went to hospital for the first time ever a month or so ago and my girlfriend laughed at me when I was surprised that we just walked out without needing to pay a cent. [emoji14]

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I read Hop on Pop to my nephew when we visited. Little did I know. This book will never ever set foot only home! So so happy that Dr. Seuss is not well known in my country. I love reading to children but my rule is only to read books that I can enjoy too. There a thousands of wonderful books for every age that are fun to read for adults too. I believe Dr. Seuss just hated parents.

 

Happy Easter, everyone 

Noooooo!!!! I love Dr. Seuss!!! 

His books are actually pretty helpful for kids starting to read. The repetition and rhymes may drive parents crazy, but apparently they're excellent for beginners.

I do prefer "On the Night You Were Born" and "You're Here For a Reason" though. And "Ada Twist, Scientist" is a good book too. But my new favorite is "The Bear Ate Your Sandwich." It has a great twist ending I didn't expect. Lol!

(Happy Easter to you too!)

@Four is EnoughI appreciate the honesty in your posts about parenting. I'm new to all this, but I already know how tough it can be - the constant worrying, the hoping you're doing a decent job, the monotony of doing the same thing every day.... I love all of it, but it's still nice to see posts like your's. It reminds me it's ok or to not love all of it all the time. 

[Fun Undies]

I think from the outside, I look like a stereotype sometimes:  I love being a SAHM, hated working even from my home.  And actually love to deep clean, do laundry, and plan family events.  I know, I know, I'm a 50's robot ;]  But I don't love being a mom, or staying at home, because I'm a woman - I love it, because I'm a caregiver, and just happen to have a nurturing personality (I'm an extrovert, and love communal living, being by myself is boring to me!).  I love to clean, because it allows me to use natural, green products because taking care of the Earth is close to my heart as well.  I love planning family events, because I'm good at coordinating between various personalities of my extended family, and finding a good (usually free) event around town.

BUT here's the difference, I have a choice, just like every woman should have a choice (I'm not referring to just a bad day, or being bored here or there), but in general women should be allowed to contribute in whatever way works for that family, based on her strengths, not on what's between her legs.  I really feel strongly that being a SAHM is just one way a woman contributes to her family - no better or worse, than many, MANY other ways.  And obviously things can change, or shift as the family's need changes.  I doubt I'll be staying at home when my kids are in school, if anything because I'll be bored in an empty house ~ I need people around me <3

As for college vs. trade school ~ I hope my kids go to college, BUT I will ecstatic if they at least do a trade school, because when people aren't hiring academics, you can still get a job as a welder (or insert other trade job) just fine (at least around here).  My hubby is a grinder/welder in his 30's, and he's been told he's got a job for the foreseeable future by his company (been with them for four years now), because most of the trained ones are retiring - and there's simply not enough to meet demand.  Too bad he hates it, and would like to be able to make custom furniture (which he went to college for) :/
 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

I think from the outside, I look like a stereotype sometimes:  I love being a SAHM, hated working even from my home.  And actually love to deep clean, do laundry, and plan family events.  I know, I know, I'm a 50's robot ;] 
 

I am a single working woman, and I also love to deep clean, do laundry, sew, and organize things (not so much cooking or planning family stuff though). I have this mutant Martha Stewart gene and I don't know where it comes from. I just really like being at home and get a lot of satisfaction out of making things look nice and getting things organized. 

With no kids I suppose I could get bored if I were at home full-time, but in an ideal (independently wealthy!) world, I could totally see working part-time and spending the rest of my time on homemaker things and personal hobbies.

But ever since I was a kid, I've never had an issue with getting bored, I always had some personal project I was working on. I wonder if internal versus external stimulation needs has a lot do with people's differing levels of satisfaction in staying home?

[Bad Wolf]

6 hours ago, Greendoor said:

Anglican (Episcopal) is teasingly said to be Catholic-light.  We have much Liturgy in common.

 

Episcopalian here. We call ourselves Catholic without the guilt. No disrespect intended.

[BackseatMom]

My Episcopalian family calls is "Catholic Lite - now with 1/3 less guilt"

[calimojo]

5 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

My mom has openly admitted to me that she didn't enjoy several aspects of motherhood; the way she put it to me was that she loved when I was an infant, and then when I became an adult, and the in-between was a real chore. She obviously loves me a lot (and I love her), but she basically admitted that she started to enjoy motherhood when I had gotten old enough to have a real conversation and be self-sufficient. I told her that the years she didn't enjoy as much were all getting me to that point. I think that's shaped the sort of philosophy I will have about parenting if I ever have children; yes, it's going to suck having to watch the same movie over and over and endure the dirty looks when my kid starts screaming bloody murder at Costco, it's going to suck having to nag my kid to do her damn homework, and it's going to suck dealing with teenage hormones, but it's all going to be with the goal of molding my kid into an honest, engaging, and self-sufficient person.

I enjoyed every phase of my kids life.  Not necessarily every day of it, but I truly did enjoy all ages.  Probably the hardest age for me was the age of 3.  At that age, they have moments of being reasonable and of course many moments of being adorable. But just as they start to give you hope that you can reason with them,  then suddenly they are back to being like they were at 18-24 months.  Unreasonable and oppositional.  

 

The one stage that I found the most surprising, in terms of parenting, is phase that I am in now,  the Launching phase.  I could be wrong, but in my generation I felt like we got to a certain age, and we left.  We were adults. Not saying we didn't struggle, but it was expected that we would and that we would handle it and eventually come through it.  But with my kids generation,  it seems like the norm for launching into adulthood is stretched out over several years.  My three are all still someone dependent on us to a degree.  They are on our health insurance still, or car insurance, and all are still on our Cell phone plan.  They still have bedrooms in the house just like always, even though only our youngest technically still lives there when not in college.    The older 2 have jobs, not well paying obviously, both are in grad school, and living on very little money.  They budget fairly well, but then know if they fall short, that Mom or Dad has an extra car payment on standby, or a little cash to tie them over until they get paid next.    And it isn't just the money,  it is the other stuff that as adults they should be doing, but I feel like they still rely on us a bit to remind them.  Like go to the dentist, get the oil changed on the car, etc. 

And the funny thing is we do far less of that kind of thing for our 'kidults' than a lot of parents I know.  And, no, not complaining,  just saying that this has turned out to be the most surprising part of parenting so far.  I guess, I naively thought that at some point between 18-21 they would become completely independent and we would then enter the phase of  of anticipating weddings, or significant relationships, grand kids, purchasing first homes, etc. 

 

 

[MayMay1123]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Episcopalian here. We call ourselves Catholic without the guilt. No disrespect intended.

My Lutheran church says the same LOL 

[ak1188]

2 hours ago, calimojo said:

But with my kids generation,  it seems like the norm for launching into adulthood is stretched out over several years.  My three are all still someone dependent on us to a degree.

This!! When she was my age, my mother had already started her career, gotten married, and was pregnant with her first child. I wasn't financially independent until I was almost 26 (I'm 28 now), and my 26 year old brother has just finished his MBA but is still living with our mom while he gets on his feet. My stepfather still supports his 3 children in one way or another, and they're 21, 28, and 30.

A lot of people have wondered why it's taking so long for our generation to "launch," as you put it, and I know in our area a huge part of it has been the cost of housing. Rent where we live is averaging $2500 for a ONE bedroom apartment, which is literally 3x more than my future in-laws pay for their mortgage in the rural Midwest. A down payment for a home here will buy a home outright in many other areas of the country. It's been pretty well documented that wages here, and I would imagine in other places as well, have stagnated in relation to cost of living. But I think we're also starting to see the gap between what our educational system provides and what our economy needs, and with that gap it's going to take longer to establish yourself financially.

As a side note, my brother lived in Japan for 3 years while in school, and he said the idea of moving out on your own as a young adult was seen as a very "American" thing and wasn't as common over there.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

3 hours ago, BackseatMom said:

My Episcopalian family calls is "Catholic Lite - now with 1/3 less guilt"

I once heard it referenced as "All of the pageantry, none of the guilt", as in the Episcopalean church.

[Kak]

5 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I wonder if internal versus external stimulation needs has a lot do with people's differing levels of satisfaction in staying home?

Yeah, I think so too. I attribute my home body tendencies to being an introvert. 

[HermioneSparrow]

23 minutes ago, Kak said:

Yeah, I think so too. I attribute my home body tendencies to being an introvert. 

I love staying at home too. I think cooking, organizing and doing laundry is like my happy place, most people my age are still partying but I seriously can't wait to have a partner/husband and just be happy at home baking and watching movies, talking and drinking wine. I have to force myself to go out because I need to meet people but I truly hate it. I would be happy with a part time job/part time being at home maybe because I haven't found a job that I can enjoy.