Dillards 28: A Walk Down Memory Lane

[bal maiden]

There is so much that makes me uncomfortable with the idea of a (potential) father 'making' a teenage girl undergo painful, and not risk-free, procedures on her reproductive organs. 

[jerkit]

I have a Paragard IUD (never had children) and when I was in my Mark Driscoll phase, I thought I was going to hell because he had a sermon about how IUDs are "abortive murder."

That fucked me up for awhile.

[socalrules]

I don't get why a teenage girl needs to be on any type of births control if the only reason is that dad decided before her birth that she will be. It's one thing if she is having sex or it is medically necessary but otherwise, I don't see why he would be so hardcore about it. I wasn't having sex as a teenager and there was not a medical reason for it, so it would have been strange if a parent demanded I be on Birth control. I had no need for it. I am happy that a potential father would be open to his daughter being on birth control but I do not understand why he feels it is so necessary regardless of need.  To me, birth control is like abortion, neither should be forced on a girl/woman because someone else believes she should or should not do it. No invasive, elective, procedure should be forced on anyone because someone else thinks it's a good idea even though there is no need for it. 

[Carm_88]

My Dad wanted me to be on birth control and I was put on it as a teen. Was I having sex? For the majority of the time, no. Was I learning how to be responsible with the pill? Yes. When I did start having sex, I knew that I was protected. I wasn't forced to take birth control, I was given the option but my parents advocated for it. 

[singsingsing]

Wow. A father should never be able to 'decide' what his daughter's reproductive choices should be. I'm trying to imagine my father saying, "Singsingsing, I'm taking you to the doctor so you can have an IUD inserted. I don't want any teen pregnancies in this house." And I'm simultaneously disturbed and bewildered.

If your teenager is having sex but they can't figure out what to do about birth control without you mandating their choice for them, there's a much bigger issue at hand. Many teenagers don't even have sex. Many others aren't okay with involving their parents in their sex lives. I'm not talking about, "Mom, I think I'm ready to start having sex, and I want to go on the pill." Or, "Honey, I just want to make sure that you're being safe. Can we talk about it?" But telling your kid - "You're going on the pill." "You're getting an IUD." Nope. Just nope. I know some will read this and exclaim, "They're my kids, they're minors, and as long as they live in my house they'll follow my rules!" Still nope.

[ivyalba]

If my boyfriend and I stay together, our potential teenage daughter will be deciding on her own whether or not she takes any form of birth control, I will let you all know!!!  I guess through a very small view of him, he seems like a terrible person, and initially, he did say, "she's getting an IUD" with no explanation. When I freaked out on him, he explained it was because he didn't want her to jeopardize her future by becoming pregnant, which further lead me to educate him that even though his girlfriend finds an IUD to be the best form of birth control, many many others find other forms to work better. I promise he's not stupid or against giving women the right to choose. I guess we both need to work on explaining our views/opinions better 

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, ivyalba said:

If my boyfriend and I stay together, our potential teenage daughter will be deciding on her own whether or not she takes any form of birth control, I will let you all know!!!  I guess through a very small view of him, he seems like a terrible person, and initially, he did say, "she's getting an IUD" with no explanation. When I freaked out on him, he explained it was because he didn't want her to jeopardize her future by becoming pregnant, which further lead me to educate him that even though his girlfriend finds an IUD to be the best form of birth control, many many others find other forms to work better. I promise he's not stupid or against giving women the right to choose. I guess we both need to work on explaining our views/opinions better 

Just want to say that I wasn't trying to attack your boyfriend specifically. I think we all say things like that about our [potential] children, like we're going to be hard asses and demand that they act a certain way or somehow we're going to magically raise them to never deviate from our personal wishes or expectations, but most of us know reality doesn't really work like that.  

[BeaSnarky]

On 4/10/2017 at 11:42 AM, Stormy said:

Did Michelle get pregnant on the pill? Or did the second pregnancy occur because she'd purposefully stopped taking it? That'd be way more insidious if the doctor claimed the Duggars miscarried as a result of using birth control at any point, period.

Fair warning, this is just a re-telling of what I've been told, so I don't know how it'd apply to someone else: My cousin got pregnant very soon after having her IUD removed and wound up having a miscarriage. After the fact. she admitted that the doctor had warned her against getting pregnant too quickly after the removal, and she either didn't listen or got pregnant to soon accidentally (it was a wanted pregnancy). I'm guessing it was a hormonal IUD, because she was told that the fact that her body hadn't adjusted back to normal is what caused the miscarriage. From my understanding, her doctor didn't engage in shame tactics or try and talk my cousin out of using birth control ever again, but informed her that the pregnancy had failed for mechanical reasons -- not spiritual failings.

I elected to have an IUD in my 30s after I had a heart attack and was not allowed to take hormonal birth control as a result.  I was given the Paraguard (the copper id).  I had no children, but it was too dangerous for me at that stage to get pregnant.  If someone passed out from that pain, they have a very LOW pain threshold.  It was uncomfortable, like a menstrual cramp.  Nothing more.  I spotted for about 4 hours, and then never even noticed it was in until I had to have it removed nearly 10 years later.  (Yes, Paraguard lasts 10 years).  I had no horrible side effects.   

[Four is Enough]

I rather imagined the "she's going to get an IUD" as being what many parents, including my husband, have said about their daughters:

"She's going in a convent at seven"... as in, "that's how I'm going to protect her"

Except there are fewer convents now, so an IUD seems a better option.. 

[singsingsing]

50 minutes ago, BeaSnarky said:

I elected to have an IUD in my 30s after I had a heart attack and was not allowed to take hormonal birth control as a result.  I was given the Paraguard (the copper id).  I had no children, but it was too dangerous for me at that stage to get pregnant.  If someone passed out from that pain, they have a very LOW pain threshold.  It was uncomfortable, like a menstrual cramp.  Nothing more.  I spotted for about 4 hours, and then never even noticed it was in until I had to have it removed nearly 10 years later.  (Yes, Paraguard lasts 10 years).  I had no horrible side effects.   

Different women have different experiences. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with pain threshold.

[Coy Koi]

11 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Different women have different experiences. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with pain threshold.

Yes. I've both given birth (with an epidural, but they shut it off quite a while before I started pushing...ugh) and had strep throat. Both were very painful, but for me, strep throat was the worse of the two experiences. That does not mean anyone who has ever had strep throat can go around saying childbirth must not really be that bad!

Also, my sister and I got matching tattoos in the same place at the same time by the same artist. I've ALWAYS thought of her as having a MUCH higher pain threshold than I do, as well as not being scared of needles like I am. Still, she found the experience more painful than I did. You just never know.

[nastyhobbitses]

Re parents deciding birth control: my mom encouraged me to start using birth control when I was 17 and had my first real boyfriend (at that point she figured I was sexually active -- she was right, and apparently saw through my lies about how late musical rehearsal went) and my periods were awful; kind of wish she'd encouraged me sooner than she did, because I think that getting on some form of birth control would have saved me a couple of years of period-related misery. I love my IUD because it's saved me a bundle on laundry and I don't spend a few days each month barfing from pain or feeling like Violet Beauregard from bloating (I exaggerate, but ugh, I hated being on my period).

[jozina]

Hell yes on women having different experiences and different pain thresholds!  Pain is such a complicated thing with so many different things feeding into it, every woman has a different uterus and a different experience.  It's luck of the draw.  I definitely notice a difference when I've put them in women but every something as simple as putting in an IV or taking blood can have an enormous range from people climbing up the bed screaming when the needle touches them to people sitting there super chilled when they get a giant cannula put in their hand with no anaesthetic.

[Scrabblemaster]

Me having migraine headache: ouch, everything is okay, I am used to that. 

Me chopping a piece of my finger of: I behaved and cried like a child, I was 21. 

Me having otitis media: I behaved and cried like a baby, I swore like a trooper, I was 20. 

[bal maiden]

19 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I rather imagined the "she's going to get an IUD" as being what many parents, including my husband, have said about their daughters:

"She's going in a convent at seven"... as in, "that's how I'm going to protect her"

Except there are fewer convents now, so an IUD seems a better option.. 

I get that people say that kind of stuff, and I know it is meant in humour, but I do think those kind of comments are a reflection of a generally patriarchal society where women's sexuality is something to be, I dunno, controlled? Afraid of? Not celebrated? I have heard those types of comments much more when living in the US/UK than in Western Europe, where in many countries the prevailing attitude leans more to inviting your teen daughter's boyfriend to stay over to give them a safe place to explore each other, rather than telling them that Sex Is Bad And You Should Wait and so on. Obviously that's a massive generalisation and no more than anecdata, disclaimer, disclaimer. 

[singsingsing]

I'm not sure inviting your kid's boyfriend/girlfriend over so they can have sex is really the right response, either. Again, many teens, even those who have long term partners, are not having sex. Now if your teen is the one suggesting it and you're just saying, "Sure!" That's another story. But am I the only one who would have never been comfortable having sex with their parents in the house as a teenager? Especially knowing that they were expecting you to be doing it? Yeesh, if that's not a mood killer I don't know what is.

I just don't think teenagers should be unduly pressured either way. My parents didn't expect me to not have sex, and they didn't expect me to have sex. They didn't lecture me about abstinence, pressure me to go on birth control, or ask me if I wanted my boyfriend to stay the night. They trusted and respected me enough to give me the freedom to make my own sexual decisions.

[fluffernutter]

Our experience so far with our 3 daughters- girl #1 one went on the pill on her own, i happened to find it one day digging through her purse looking for my keys. She was in high school and i'm honestly not sure how she got it, but she wasn't too communicative with us during that time so i was just glad she was protecting herself. Girl #2 asked me to go on it when she started college, and girl #3 who is in 10th grade hasn't asked for anything and doesn't have a steady boyfriend. I did tell them all that i would be supportive in getting them on something when the time ever came or that they could go to their grandma or aunt if they weren't comfortable discussing it with me or my husband. My bff has/had three teen girls too and she always kept condoms in the bathroom in a basket and just kept it filled, which i thought was a good idea.

[HarleyQuinn]

Pain thresholds are a curious thing.

When I was in grade school, I had a wart froze, then cut off the bottom of my foot. I repeatedly screamed at the doctor to put me to sleep because the pain was too much.

A few months later I broke my arm in several places and didn't shed a tear. You'd think it would be the other way around. 

[candygirl200413]

I feel you @HarleyQuinn, I can't handle period cramps or headaches (some people can tough it out, I need any pain killer the moment I feel it. Anything else affecting my body? I'm like eh!

[epic fail]

in response to teenagers being encouraged to have sex in Europe:

European parents in my experience do not expect there kids to have sex! They normally also don't actively invite boyfriend/girlfriend over (and I have never heard of it without their child's consent or even as a favor to the child).

But bringing people over and staying the night is generally more relaxed here. This is of coarse my own background so it might be different in very conservative regions/family's.

Interestingly, when I got ready to live in the US as an exchange student (during high-school) two "rules" were explained to us:

1.Your host parents might have a problem with you closing our room door (most of all if you have friends over) and 2.you have to ask your host parents before inviting friends over. 

At home at the same age  I never asked  if my friends could come by, sometimes they came without me even knowing. We always closed my room door and if it got late  they just spend the night (all without talking to any parents).

But these seem to have been reoccurring issues important enough to mention at a seminar preparing all kinds of teenager from Europe to go to all regions in the US.

So there is defiantly a cultural difference there.

[Four is Enough]

8 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I get that people say that kind of stuff, and I know it is meant in humour, but I do think those kind of comments are a reflection of a generally patriarchal society where women's sexuality is something to be, I dunno, controlled? Afraid of? Not celebrated? I have heard those types of comments much more when living in the US/UK than in Western Europe, where in many countries the prevailing attitude leans more to inviting your teen daughter's boyfriend to stay over to give them a safe place to explore each other, rather than telling them that Sex Is Bad And You Should Wait and so on. Obviously that's a massive generalisation and no more than anecdata, disclaimer, disclaimer. 

With all due respect, bal maiden, do you have a daughter? I do. Mine was in a "controlled" sexual relationship when she was not yet 15, with a boy just a bit older, who really did a number on her head. She and I had many long talks about sex afterwards, its meaning and place in relationships, casual and otherwise. We also talked about how sex changes relationships. We are DEFINITELY not "celebrating" her sexuality until she is able to support herself and whatever consequences of her sexual behavior  happen to occur. There is no way I will be inviting anyone over to explore my daughter OR my sons. Our stance, whether or not you agree to it,is that Sex is For Committed Relationships, and Does Not Belong In Our Basement.

While others are more relaxed about it, I do not apologize for this stand. My daughter was sexually active at a young age, and it hurt her, and I wouldn't have actually put her in a convent to protect her from that, but I would have tried to protect her from that, rather than being the mother of the male of the pair, who allowed them access to his bedroom so that she "knew where he was and what he was doing."

 

I don't think of protecting her as "patriarchal", but as "parental." And you can see that by protecting her, I was not prohibiting her from having sex, but trying to inform her and give her information to make a really solid choice.

[FundieCentral]

I think parents everywhere generally try to do the best job they can raising their children. 

As a European young adult having lived in the US/Canada, I would agree that the messages communicated about sex are slightly different, but so are the conceptualisation of what a "teenager" is genereally. 

In my experience, in Europe you stop being a child around 14 and transition into young adulthood then. At age 16, you can drink alcohol, begin drivers training, begin job training, and yes, be in committed relationships and have sex. In my circle, the years between the 14-16 were the time of exploration, first heartbreaks, first parties, first negative experiences with drugs and alcohol. At around 16-18, that development is expected to be finished and young adults  are now full adults. So it is assumed that teenagers will experiment sexually between 14-16, and then probably have the first serious relationship around 17-18. Many of my friends (I'm in my early 20s) Are still with those serious boyfriends/girlfriends. 

In the US from what I can tell, that development appears to be somewhat delayed. The age of experimentation seems to be between 18-20 mostly, and thus people aren't really expected to have sex before then. But people do "date around" a lot more, thus often having had several relationships during their experimental times and somewhat more sexual partners/STDs/early pregnancies. It also seems that people really less comfortable talking about what they want and like in sex but comparably more comfortable with "hook ups" in adulthood than European 20 somethings. But that's just an subjective observation. 

Again, this is a purely anecdotal judgment from my personal friend circles and acquaintances. I'm sure this varies greatly depending on where you live and how you grow up. 

[Lurker]

4 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

I feel you @HarleyQuinn, I can't handle period cramps or headaches (some people can tough it out, I need any pain killer the moment I feel it. Anything else affecting my body? I'm like eh!

I was always able to deal with cramps, and had both of my kids without epidurals or other pain blockers.  I was able to cope with the pain, certainly not happy, but I got through it.

However, dental work is terribly painful for me.   I need extra shots of novocaine to get numb enough to permit fillings, etc.   Last year I needed to get a deep scaling and my dentist recommended I take a tranqulizer before each of my four quadrant appointments.  My primary care MD who knows me as a pretty relaxed low drama patient did not want to prescribe the few pills I needed to do the dental work. She only did it because I started hyperventilating in her office when I was just thinking about the deep cleaning.

[Rachel333]

6 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

I feel you @HarleyQuinn, I can't handle period cramps or headaches (some people can tough it out, I need any pain killer the moment I feel it. Anything else affecting my body? I'm like eh!

I've had a caffeine withdrawal headache all day so I was thinking about this. I generally have a pretty high pain tolerance but some pains I just can't handle, and it doesn't seem to have to do with the severity of the pain. Period cramps for me aren't really terribly painful per se, but there's something about them that is just so unpleasant that I immediately go for a pain killer, but I can handle sharper pains no problem. Headaches vary. Some I can handle, some I can't, and again it's more about the type of pain than the severity of the pain.

[Georgiana]

I really don't care about sexual activity of other people, but I've had conversations with the sibs (who both live with my parents) about using my house for sex when I'm gone.  It's just a boundary for me. 

I don't have kids, but I imagine it will be more of the same: take care of yourself, be educated, make your own decisions...but you are NOT allowed to invite people over for sex to my house. 

Like my dad used to tell me: "Some perks come with paying your own rent.  Not having to deal with my rules is one.  I gotta give you SOME incentive!"