Jinger and Jeremy: She's in Shorts?!

[ValeryVal]

13 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

Oh crap...do you all think he did a, "Stephen Hammer"?!? I just thought about that. Completely forgot how he found Meredith while lurking on the internet. So far Stephen is progressing with his education. Meredith is progressing with staying meek and pregnant. Stephen could have had anyone, but it appeared he was very selective.

I'm afraid I am not familiar with Stephen Hammer. Who is he?  

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Replies to some stuff:

1. Erin is more dominant than Chad (pink bedroom) Oh please! Some guys just don't care. Others just want their wives to be happy. I wouldn't read ANYTHING into a pink bedroom. Goodness.....

2. Fundamentalism--very few Americans who call themselves fundamentalist Christians believe the whackadoodle stuff Bill Gothard teaches. I know NO ONE. NOT. ONE. who doesn't approve of birth control and and almost no one who would not work outside the home if necessary. Many CHOOSE to be at home.  A small number wear only skits--like the Amish or the Mennonites. A tiny few do headcoverings. NONE would have a clue what the Umbrella of Authority is and almost NONE would believe a personal relationship with God is only offered to the man.  NONE charts their menstrual cycle on the fridge except MAYBE when trying to conceive kid # 1. The only people who generalize a "fundie" as a Duggar-type really need to understand that the OTHER fundamentalists are your neighbors who just go to church a lot and maybe try to  invite you. The Duggar type don't associate with anyone. They mostly live rural in a family compound--though damned few have as nice of a home unless they have a very successful business. Most such families live almost hand-to-mouth trying to achieve debt free life with a 8 or so kids. (Few women are as fertile Michelle). Most everyday, garden variety fundamentalists' kids can and do go to college if desired by the KID. Gothardism is off-the charts nuts.

3. Jeremy--my take? Super full of himself controlling asshole who found Gothardism, they way it was intended to be found--a way to have a perfect marriage and a perfect family.  Lured in by the control promised to husbands. Ironically, its mostly the WOMEN who lead the way INTO Gothardism.

4. Derrick--got WAY more than he bargained for in terms of "crazy" and is stuck. I think HE sincerely wants to be a missionary, but Jillymuffin is so, so over it and scared witless 99% of the time. I also think she's desperately lonely. She's been conditioned to never be alone and in dangerous Sin-tral America she often finds herself either alone with the kiddo and HER THOUGHTS (something she's NEVER had to deal with--always kept busy) or with non-English speakers creeping her out hanging out at the "ministry" [i.e. "Her home"]

 

[halcionne]

20 hours ago, BrandoBarks said:

In my opinion, from what I saw on the show or online, he is a very controlling person. I can't get over the fact why (even if he converted) a college educated, "love experienced" person who travelled and met lots of different people would marry a woman who was raised with fundamentalist (+ Duggar) values. To me, he looked specifically for someone he could easily controll and for a meek (his own words) helpmeet. Pure speculation on my side, Jinger also serves as an attraction to his new church. All this is very sad and I really don't think that she has not a mind of her own. But I think that her being a follower is a bigger part of her character. Maybe Jeremys values differ in some ways from the Duggars' (wearing shorts) but birth controll seems too unlikely to me...

This sentiment has been expressed by many different members here, so I'm not trying to call you out specifically, BrandoBarks, I'm just using your post as a jumping-off point.  

Jinger had a spark so bright that it inspired the name for this website. To many it seemed that that spark faded or was extinguished over the years. What if Jeremy saw that spark, or what remained of it, and fell in love with it? For all we know, she was quite lively off camera but withered onscreen for whatever reason.

I think saying Jeremy wanted a certain kind of wife and Jinger fit the bill dehumanizes her, and Fundy women have enough of that from within that I don't want to contribute to it.

PS: Let's not forget that "meek" is a garden-variety compliment for these folks; I think some members are reading too much into Jeremy's use of that word to praise Jinger.

[singsingsing]

I think the reality is probability more complex. Jeremy may have wanted Jinger for problematic reasons while also feeling genuine affection for her.

[ValeryVal]

2 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

That's not fundamentalist catholic, that's called being conservative. Have you Heard about the Opus dei? Or the Neocatechumenal way, which is Just weird as hell? Those are fundamentalist catholic denominations. By your definition the tenth part of my country would be a fundie

Ok so, I grew up in Italy as a Catholic and my parents are what you may call "Catholic fundie" since they are part of the Neocatechumenal movement. I am no longer part of the movement since I started questioning believing in God therefore I quit. I have been part of that lifestyle for more than 15 years.

Now even if the Neocatechumenal movement shares some ideologies (modesty, anti abortion, homosexuality) with IBLP by no means they are the same thing nor they can be compared. For instance we are a big family but by any means my parents obliged me to wear skirts only! I always wore what I wanted to wear nor they had some screwed up rules like "no kissing before the wedding" . Also there is no homeschooling and pursuing a college education, for women, is not an extraordinary thing. Many women that I know have a university degree (even medicine, science, math), work and raise their family, others choose to quit their job to become stay at home moms. But it's their own choice. No one is there to tell them what to do. Yes they do hold conservative values (and are quite narrow minded about certain issues) and yes they are anti abortion but we definitely have more freedom than any of the Duggars put together. As far as birth control, pills are frowned upon however many use other methods in order to avoid a pregnancy.

Please forgive my broken english but it'snot my first language  

[formergothardite]

45 minutes ago, ValeryVal said:

For instance we are a big family but by any means my parents obliged me to wear skirts only! I always wore what I wanted to wear nor they had some screwed up rules like "no kissing before the wedding" . Also there is no homeschooling and pursuing a college education, for women, is not an extraordinary thing. Many women that I know have a university degree (even medicine, science, math), work and raise their family, others choose to quit their job to become stay at home moms. But it's their own choice. No one is there to tell them what to do. Yes they do hold conservative values (and are quite narrow minded about certain issues) and yes they are anti abortion but we definitely have more freedom than any of the Duggars put together. As far as birth control, pills are frowned upon however many use other methods in order to avoid a pregnancy.

Not all fundies are skirts only, homeschooling, anti-birth control, anti-college types. The Duggars/Bates are one tiny narrow section of the fundie universe. There are fundies who drink, dance, have small families and have no issue with college education. I was in ATI and I wasn't skirts only either and my parents always expected me to go to college and get a job, yet they were still fundie as hell. 

Just because people have more freedom than the Duggars doesn't mean they aren't fundie. VF crowds had more freedom(and  better clothes!), but I think we can all agree they are very fundie. 

Your English is great! 

[Palimpsest]

50 minutes ago, halcionne said:

Jinger had a spark so bright that it inspired the name for this website.

Nah.  Jinger's spark has never been that bright.  It's more of a coincidence.  We could just have easily been Free Jennifer if she had been born when this forum started.

Ancient history:  Jinger went through a phase of rolling her eyes and a few people at TWoP noticed.  That combined with the Godawful spelling of her name inspired some posters to start saying "Free Jinger!"  Some of those posters were disciplined or banned from TWoP by Howard for going off topic and daring to discuss things other than the show itself, so they started Free Jinger.  I never posted on the Duggar thread on TWoP (Howard terrified me) but followed the naughty posters over to yuku.

1 hour ago, halcionne said:

I think saying Jeremy wanted a certain kind of wife and Jinger fit the bill dehumanizes her, and Fundy women have enough of that from within that I don't want to contribute to it.

I agree and I think some people are taking it way too far.  However, I think Jeremy was certainly looking for a Godly Christian Woman who would fit in with his church and share his beliefs.  Why would he not?

He looked around for women who fit the bill and picked Jinger.  Her looks, personality, and possibly her upbringing to be a submissive wife,  attracted him.  And, while not Gothardite, I would still call his beliefs pretty damn Fundie.  There is no reason to believe that he doesn't love her for herself though.  There are plenty of others who would have fit his overall criteria.

[BrandoBarks]

I see your point @halcionne and I really hope that he fell in love with her spark instead of chosing her as a wife because she fits his needs, she does not deserve that.

[ValeryVal]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Not all fundies are skirts only, homeschooling, anti-birth control, anti-college types. The Duggars/Bates are one tiny narrow section of the fundie universe. There are fundies who drink, dance, have small families and have no issue with college education. I was in ATI and I wasn't skirts only either and my parents always expected me to go to college and get a job, yet they were still fundie as hell. 

Just because people have more freedom than the Duggars doesn't mean they aren't fundie. VF crowds had more freedom(and  better clothes!), but I think we can all agree they are very fundie. 

Your English is great! 

 

Yes, I definitely agree with you.

However I just wanted to clarify that even though Neocatechumenals are fundie they are not as hard core as the Duggars.

Well thanks  

[nausicaa]

7 minutes ago, BrandoBarks said:

I see your point @halcionne and I really hope that he fell in love with her spark instead of chosing her as a wife because she fits his needs, she does not deserve that.

Despite my dig about the Duggar daughters earlier, I genuinely hope so too.

I just have my skepticism in a family that is about making all members as homogeneous as possible that enough sparks are allowed to spark at the right moments in their limited and supervised interactions with others. But stranger things have happened.

I think Sing is probably right in that it's a blend of each reaching at stage where they feel they need a spouse, Jinger fitting some problematic and not-so problematic criteria, and genuine attraction. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

2 hours ago, ValeryVal said:

I'm afraid I am not familiar with Stephen Hammer. Who is he?  

There's a nice summary in the Who's Who: Fundamentalist Family and Organization Summaries in the SOTDRT forum:

And there's a current discussion in Quiver Full of Snark:

If someone mentions a fundie you aren't familiar with yet, the SOTDRT is a great place to check first. Using "search" and a name can also work. 

 

[Palimpsest]

4 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

There's a nice summary in the Who's Who: Fundamentalist Family and Organization Summaries in the SOTDRT forum:

Thanks.  I'm afraid the snark really ran away with me on that summary. I wish it wasn't so long.

@ValeryVal, welcome.  I wasn't familiar with the Neocatechumenal Way so I googled.  Very interesting.

[ScorpiousMalfoy]

4 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

That's not fundamentalist catholic, that's called being conservative. Have you Heard about the Opus dei? Or the Neocatechumenal way, which is Just weird as hell? Those are fundamentalist catholic denominations. By your definition the tenth part of my country would be a fundie

Yeah, Opus Dei is kinda weird. I know a guy whose family is high in "ranks" in Polish OD - he took a vow of purity, even though he's not a monk, just a "civillian" - and I think a few of his siblings did it too. It made stuff a bit weird, because he did not talk to any non-related girl if he didn't have to - so he is not  tempted by them ( "Nike" much?). It was so awkward, when I asked him something about a class and he did't even look at me answering. (But I think the purity vow isn't for all in OD  - you choose if you were called by God to have a family or not.) They've got this groups for young people - of course STRICTLY segregated by gender.  The group for boys organised some pretty cool meetings with bosses of big companies, etc - one could go even if they're not a member of Opus Dei, but of course you need to be male. I was pretty annoyed  by that, because the people they were meeting were super interesting.

[jerkit]

A few things:

1. I think J&J's lack of social media increases the intrigue, at least for me. I do wonder if Jeremy runs the Grace Community Church Laredo FB page or if it's some other lackey. 

2. I've listened to a few of Jeremy's sermons and they're really bland. Just run-of-the-mill conservative Christian stuff. The giant "what we believe" on the church website was even bland. I was honestly expecting more extreme/shocking sermons. But I did spend a few months listening to nothing but PP sermons, so my barometer is definitely off.

3. I don't think the shorts are particular meaningful, but I think Jinger looks great in them. I also rescind my previous prediction that she's pregnant. She didn't look it in that picture, in my opinion. 

4. I wonder how Jeremy's flock feels about their pastor being a reality TV personality. I would be really uncomfortable if my pastor was on a reality show. 

[Audrey2]

When I think of Fundies, I add two more things to the discussion. They are creation literalists, who truly believe the Earth is around 6000-6500 years old, and they talk about God/Jesus all of the time. They struggle to have a conversation without mentioning one or the other. (I was at the crowded mall yesterday and Jesus found a parking spot for me.) Evangelicals are the ones who want to convert you.

[unicorncastle]

Yes we disagree and everyone is entitled to their opinions.   I am not keeping someone hostage in my home forcing them to support abortion or lgbtq rights or into an arranged marriage with someone against their will. 

Don't you think that is a bit hyperbolic? If we were talking about FLDS or the Kingstons, then yeah, I believe that's happening, but you literally think Jermey is in an arranged marriage (that Jinger had no choice or say in) and now she is being held hostage? Come on now.

[ladyamylynn]

17 hours ago, unicorncastle said:

 They think gay people/feminism/etc is wrong and we are clearly misguided and living our lives wrong.  We think fundamentalism is wrong and they are not living their lives the right way. Isn't it the same thing?

Fuck no, it is not the same thing. Religious fundamentalism isn't just some thing I decided not to like, like thinking Justin Beiber sucks or whatever. Christian religious fundamentalists, if you haven't noticed, are causing real life problems here in the U.S.  MY rights are being infringed upon. I have suffered real, actual consequences from growing up in a fundamentalist environment. And shows like Counting On and 19 Kids and Counting serve to normalize actual harmful ideologies by packaging them as harmless quirks. Or did you forget about Michelle Duggar's anti-gay, transphobic robo-calling? Or the fact that the Bates family has a a painting of the leader of the goddamn KKK in their fucking house? And these are the most TV friendly families they could find! So before you go and call me intolerant for opposing their bullshit, maybe you should brush up on the concept of false equivalence. This should get you started.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

[unicorncastle]

Fuck no, it is not the same thing. Religious fundamentalism isn't just some thing I decided not to like, like thinking Justin Beiber sucks or whatever. Christian religious fundamentalists, if you haven't noticed, are causing real life problems here in the U.S.  MY rights are being infringed upon. I have suffered real, actual consequences from growing up in a fundamentalist environment. And shows like Counting On and 19 Kids and Counting serve to normalize actual harmful ideologies by packaging them as harmless quirks. Or did you forget about Michelle Duggar's anti-gay, transphobic robo-calling? Or the fact that the Bates family has a a painting of the leader of the goddamn KKK in their fucking house? And these are the most TV friendly families they could find! So before you go and call me intolerant for opposing their bullshit, maybe you should brush up on the concept of false equivalence. This should get you started.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Whoa. Everyone needs to chill. I was asking a simple question. This fucks with my life too. I'm a woman married to a woman and we have children together. (If you want to Obama me, I can release my marriage license [emoji849])

It's sad that the pitch forks come out when someone tries to expand the thought bubble because honestly nobody ACTUALLY knows what is happening. We know what some fundamentalists do, we know what some believe, but largely there is a lot of discussion about things we assume about their lives.

I'm gay, but that doesn't mean that all gay people live/believe/act the same way.

[ValeryVal]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

There's a nice summary in the Who's Who: Fundamentalist Family and Organization Summaries in the SOTDRT forum:

And there's a current discussion in Quiver Full of Snark:

If someone mentions a fundie you aren't familiar with yet, the SOTDRT is a great place to check first. Using "search" and a name can also work. 

 

thank you for the info, I appreciate it!

 

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Thanks.  I'm afraid the snark really ran away with me on that summary. I wish it wasn't so long.

@ValeryVal, welcome.  I wasn't familiar with the Neocatechumenal Way so I googled.  Very interesting.

Thank you     yes, it is quite interesting. unfortunately we have our share of fundie here in Italy as well. my parents are still deep into it however my sisters and I are no longer in the Neocatechumenal Way whatsoever.

 

[unicorncastle]

I think there's value in this video. It's from a woman that grew up in the Westboro baptist church. I understand this is a anti-fundamentalism forum, but in case someone actually wants to do something besides complain.

[ladyamylynn]

Just now, unicorncastle said:

 

Whoa. Everyone needs to chill. I was asking a simple question.

 

Well the answer to your question is no.

 

3 minutes ago, unicorncastle said:

(If you want to Obama me, I can release my marriage license )
 

 

 I think a more apt analogy is Trump releasing his tax returns, because I think you're fucking lying.

[unicorncastle]

 I think a more apt analogy is Trump releasing his tax returns, because I think you're fucking lying.

Feel free to check your PMs.

[ladyamylynn]

Doxxing yourself is weird. 

[Destiny]

Doxxing yourself is weird. 

Also a really bad idea. :/

[Palimpsest]

18 minutes ago, unicorncastle said:

Whoa. Everyone needs to chill.

I think you really need to calm down too.  Your tone is not getting you anywhere.