Dillards 27 - Allergies, Fever, and the Dangers of Being a White Baby

[Meridae]

I remember my mom explaining the 2000 election craziness to me in the car one morning because it had been all over the news and I didn't understand how voting worked. 9/11 is very hazy in my mind but I'll never forget my father sobbing when I came home from school that day (my parents decided to let me stay there for normalcy's sake). I also remember watching the news when President Bush announced we were invading Iraq. That was terrifying to me, because I couldn't grasp the ramifications of war but knew it was a horrible thing for a country to go through. I was also scared that my dad would have to go fight (he was too old but to a young child that makes no difference).

[formergothardite]

I remember Princess Diana getting married. That is the first big memory. I remember my mom getting us up really early to watch it. 

We were watching when the Challenger exploded.

I remember being super excited when they found the Titanic. 

Baby Jessica I remember, but mostly because I was terrified after that of falling into some sort of hole. 

Hurricane Hugo was a huge deal in my childhood. Absolutely no one was prepared because we are so far inland and we lost power for a long time. I remember being up with my parents listening to the radio because we had lost power pretty early on. One of the news reports was from Charlotte and I can remember the terror in their voices as they realized one of the massive radio/antenna(?) towers was starting to fall.

[Bethella]

My first news memory is Desert Storm when I had just turned six. We were on our way home from Disney World and there were guys in fatigues with big guns (probably National Guardsmen with AK-47s) patrolling the airport. My parents were worried because they hadn't heard the news yet and didn't know what was going on but I thought they looked like GI Joe which was "really neat!" We got bumped off our flight so we ended up in a sports bar having lunch and watching the news coverage.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 3/18/2017 at 8:25 AM, VelociRapture said:

I liked this and agree for the most part. However, I'm a recent NICU Mom myself - my daughter was (thankfully) born around 34 weeks into my pregnancy. I saw babies in NICU as young as Baby @PennySycamore was at the time. Yes, they aren't trapped in a pipe the way Jessica was - but children born that young can still end up fighting for their lives, even with all the advances in technology and knowledge there have been the past 30 years. I know you were really addressing the negligence aspect and I'm glad you helped clarify, but I don't think it's entirely fair to assume anything about the condition of Penny's child at that specific time.

ETA: Not sure when you joined up, but welcome!  

I know babies in the NICU are fighting for their lives, but they aren't in imminent danger.  They are also in a place that's as safe as can be, receiving direct medical care.  There's a reason that the goal for Jessica was to get her to a hospital, but the goal will never be to put a baby in a pipe.  By far, the more dangerous situation to be in is in a pipe that's so small that it's hard to figure out how anyone older than a newborn can fit in it.

Between having a preemie, even a micro, warm and receiving care in the NICU, or having a toddler in a teeny tiny pipe dozens of feet below ground where even the slightest thing wrong will kill her, which situation is safer?  If you have to be the parent of one, which would it be?  No one wants to be in either situation, but to dismiss the imminent danger another mother's child is in because yours is in the NICU is pretty crass.  An outside force was directly threatening Jessica's life.  

Penny knew the worry about wondering if a child would be okay in the end or not, but chose to get mad that someone else's baby who was in a situation that was directly dire with an imminent risk of death by being crushed was in the media instead of empathizing.  Nothing is worth being the parent of a child in Jessica's situation.  She wouldn't trade positions with Jessica's family  Maybe the parents of a child in Syria would, but no one whose child is in a safe, equipped, properly-staffed hospital would.  Jessica's family wanted to get her to a hospital because that's the safest place for a child in immediate need of medical care.  A baby in the NICU is receiving care.  Jessica got songs sung down a well to try to calm her while she dehydrated, starved, and lost circulation to parts of her body.  She was lucky to lose just some toes.

If anything should come of it, it should be that we're glad we aren't the ones whose children are in such unusual and extreme danger that the world's media are following it as professionals are trying to figure out an emergency situation no one had ever dealt with, rather than angry that another child's much more extreme situation is in the media.  Jessica was an unwitting guinea pig whose family was accused of neglect because her aunt took her eyes off of her for seconds, even though we all do that.

You can worry about someone else's baby while still worrying about your own.  Concern isn't zero-sum.  Hold your NICU-baby's warn hand and be in solidarity with the mother who doesn't know if she'll ever get to touch the warm hand of her child again or if the outside forces threatening her child will be her death.

[PennySycamore]

17 hours ago, Fascinated said:

I remember all of these things!  Shit, I am so old. I remember my Dad yelling upstairs to my mum that the president had been shot. I was very, very young, not much more than an embryo. (Ok. I was seven), but I do remember it. (Kennedy, of course. At least it wasn't Lincoln, amiright?)

 

 

I remember JFK's assassination, as well.  I was in second grade, I think, and they announced it at school.  We were being dismissed early because of the assassination.  We watched the TV coverage non-stop for a few days and, IIRC, we saw Jack Ruby shoot Oswald that Sunday morning.  It was part of the live TV coverage and there was absolutely no time to edit it out.  I vaguely remember the Seattle World's Fair and the Cuban Missile Crisis, but mostly because we had bomb drills at school.  We didn't know they were bomb drills though.  We only knew them as tornado drills where we were taken out to the hall and told to duck and cover.  We never had them after second grade, though, and South Carolina was no safer from tornados in 1964 than they had been in 1963.

I feel lucky to have experienced all the history I have.  I wouldn't want to be any younger than I am.  I was talking to my youngest daughter the other day about what it was like when our school was integrated.  I can still remember the name of the black boy who was in my 4th grade class.  I was lucky to count him as one of my friends.  

Since I mentioned "duck and cover" bomb drills, you young whippersnappers need to see this:

 

[MargaretElliott]

I have a strange memory. My earliest memories are from when I was less than two (I've corroborated the memories with my mother to make sure they're real and I didn't dream them or something) but I can't remember recent things as well (my calendar app is a complete lifesaver!) The first news story I really recall is 9/11. I was in elementary school at the time, but no one really explained it to me. I just remember my guidance councilor coming in and telling the class that a plane had crashed into the world trade center. I assumed it was an accident, because why would someone do that on purpose? It was only after I watched the news for a few days I realized what had actually happened. It's amazing to me that there are kids in high school being taught about it as an event that happened before they were born. I remember it so vividly.

[Thorns]

My first TV memory I actually can't date. I was very young, maybe 4? I remember a female body lying on tre ground with a pool (of blood?) around her, and seem to recall it being some murder in a kindergarten. I doubt that memory tho, I can't belive they actually showed that on television.

Then I remember when the king died in -91, I was 6 and mad because they cancelled the kid programme

9/11, I was watching Home and Away when the first alerts came in...

And, the Utøya shootings and the bomb in downtown Oslo (Norway) in July 2011. I was just home from a boring day at work, so I went from work having refreshed the news papers all day with nothing to read to 15 minutes later and my country never being the same again. And then as the news of Utøya starting coming in as the hours went by. Fell asleep at 2 in the night with the death toll reported as 10-15, and waking up to uncertain numbers and some reporting them to a hundred... I broke down and cried. 

[VelociRapture]

47 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

I know babies in the NICU are fighting for their lives, but they aren't in imminent danger.  They are also in a place that's as safe as can be, receiving direct medical care.  There's a reason that the goal for Jessica was to get her to a hospital, but the goal will never be to put a baby in a pipe.  By far, the more dangerous situation to be in is in a pipe that's so small that it's hard to figure out how anyone older than a newborn can fit in it.

Between having a preemie, even a micro, warm and receiving care in the NICU, or having a toddler in a teeny tiny pipe dozens of feet below ground where even the slightest thing wrong will kill her, which situation is safer?  If you have to be the parent of one, which would it be?  No one wants to be in either situation, but to dismiss the imminent danger another mother's child is in because yours is in the NICU is pretty crass.  An outside force was directly threatening Jessica's life.  

Penny knew the worry about wondering if a child would be okay in the end or not, but chose to get mad that someone else's baby who was in a situation that was directly dire with an imminent risk of death by being crushed was in the media instead of empathizing.  Nothing is worth being the parent of a child in Jessica's situation.  She wouldn't trade positions with Jessica's family  Maybe the parents of a child in Syria would, but no one whose child is in a safe, equipped, properly-staffed hospital would.  Jessica's family wanted to get her to a hospital because that's the safest place for a child in immediate need of medical care.  A baby in the NICU is receiving care.  Jessica got songs sung down a well to try to calm her while she dehydrated, starved, and lost circulation to parts of her body.  She was lucky to lose just some toes.

If anything should come of it, it should be that we're glad we aren't the ones whose children are in such unusual and extreme danger that the world's media are following it as professionals are trying to figure out an emergency situation no one had ever dealt with, rather than angry that another child's much more extreme situation is in the media.  Jessica was an unwitting guinea pig whose family was accused of neglect because her aunt took her eyes off of her for seconds, even though we all do that.

You can worry about someone else's baby while still worrying about your own.  Concern isn't zero-sum.  Hold your NICU-baby's warn hand and be in solidarity with the mother who doesn't know if she'll ever get to touch the warm hand of her child again or if the outside forces threatening her child will be her death.

I was going to respond with a long explanation, but I'm exhausted and not sure I'd be able to explain my thoughts clearly (and I don't want to unintentionally spark a fight or something.) Plus, I don't feel right speculating or speaking for @PennySycamore about why she personally felt the way she did at that time.

I'm just going to say: 

1. I have nothing but sympathy for what Jessica and her family went through. Especially her Aunt. I can't imagine how horrible it must have been for them all or for her Aunt to deal with any accusations of neglect on top of the guilt and terror she likely felt.

2. Of course being in the hospital is preferable. However, as we've both agreed, being in the best hospital with the best care doesn't mean there won't be life-threatening or dangerous situations. 

3. When it's your loved one who is at risk, nothing else really matters - especially when that loved one is your very young child. Of course you can (and should) still have sympathy for others... but we're human and extreme stress can cause us to react in less than admirable ways.

And with that, I shall bow out and wish you a lovely evening.  

[Lurky]

I think my first news memories were the famine in Ethiopia, and some kid trapped down a well.  I think it's because they were both about/focused on children, and I was a child?  Not having enough food, being trapped and maybe going to die - they both burned into my brain.

[lumpentheologie]

7 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

9/11, I was 12. I was supposed to be in school but there was a busing dispute and the parents were keeping the kids out of the school for safety reasons. We spent an hour on the bus before being sent home. That would make it around 9 NST. I remember, I was ust leaving the house as my Mom called out to me and showed me that all the channels were playing the same thing. Being 12, I didn't think it would change life as I knew it. I can remember watching all the coverage and then getting local news that there were 6000 people stranded in Gander. It was surreal. 

Are you in Newfoundland?  I just saw the play "Come From Away" which is all about the people who were stranded in Gander.  Everyone was crying by the end, but it was also really uplifting how the people of Gander banded together and took care of the stranded travelers. Makes me want to go to Newfoundland. 

[Topaz]

My first news memory is Nelson Mandela being released from prison. I has no idea who he was or why his release was significant, I think I picked up on the atmosphere.

My first 'I'll always remember where I was' moment was the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. I was 14 but I'd woken up early and I decided to turn on the TV and watch some kids programmes which were on at that time. So I switched it on expecting to see the Teletubbies and got the BBC's continuous coverage of Diana's death.

[ViolaSebastian]

1 hour ago, Meridae said:

 I also remember watching the news when President Bush announced we were invading Iraq. That was terrifying to me, because I couldn't grasp the ramifications of war but knew it was a horrible thing for a country to go through. I was also scared that my dad would have to go fight (he was too old but to a young child that makes no difference).

I just had a very cringe-inducing memory of the first night of the "shock and awe" campaign, which occurred the same night that my first serious boyfriend and I decided to rent a room so we could have the sex in a hotel. Needless to say we only watched the bombing. 

[Carm_88]

11 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

Are you in Newfoundland?  I just saw the play "Come From Away" which is all about the people who were stranded in Gander.  Everyone was crying by the end, but it was also really uplifting how the people of Gander banded together and took care of the stranded travelers. Makes me want to go to Newfoundland. 

I am indeed and yes, the play is beautiful! Pretty wonderful that something so beautiful can come out of such a tragedy! Newfoundland is a beautiful place! You should definitely come!  

[Kittikatz]

@Jug Band Baby I fully agree that the whole Baby Jessica incident was horrifying. Any time a person is in imminent danger of death is pretty bloody awful. That said, your idea the babies in the NICU are not in imminent danger of death is bullshit. My brother spent most of his 16 months there, and thinking the situation was no worse than usual, my parents took seven year old me on one of our regular after dinner trips to the hospital to visit. Things somehow went south in a hurry, and I had a front row seat to him coding and the intense efforts the staff there went through as they tried, and failed, to save him. 

[Gobsmacked]

My first memory of TV news was the moors murderers coverage about Myra Hindly and Ian Brady.( I'm old!!)

I had just started primary school. We were given stranger danger talks, unusual for the 1960s, especially as we were warned about talking to female strangers.

We lived a few miles away from their hunting ground. Our summer freedom was seriously curtailed after the news broke, even though they has been arrested and locked up awaiting trial by then.

[MyMilkshake]

My first memory of TV news was watching the TV footage about the Mt.St. Helens eruption in 1980. I was 8 years old and living in BC at the time. We were close to the Washington State border and we felt the rumble. 

The first newspaper news that I vividly remember is from when child killer Clifford Olson was still on the loose.  I remember reading a story in the Vancouver Sun about all the missing kids. They had 2 pages with all their photos, their names, ages and where they were last seen. 
And after he was caught and we learned what happened to his victims I remember having nightmares about the kids..definitely changed how I started seeing the world and at a young age.

[Iamtheway]

7 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

ETA: I remember the coverage about Elizabeth Smart as well. She's a few months older than me - I remember that a lot of us kids at the time didn't understand what Stockholm Syndrome was or why she didn't try to escape. 

Stockholm Syndrome is pretty hard to understand even as an adult. And I think we need to see the Duggars in the same way. I think a lot of us can't help but wonder why the adult kids don't try to escape the madness, I know I do. But they are all born with Stockholm Syndrome. 

[purjolok84]

When I was 17 my mum and I had come home from a late night dance class and found dad glued to the tv watching what, to me, looked like some thriller that involved planes crashing into buildings. I was so exhausted I didn't notice that both he and mum were talking about some kind of incident in New York and thought it wasn't real.

However, I get up the next morning and find out that four planes have been deliberately flown into buildings/fields. No work was done at school that day - everyone was milling around, watching it on tv in different classrooms. To make things worse, my class had to go on an excursion to the art museum. I guess the school thought it would be a good distraction but I just felt numb the entire time.

I spent the next few days listening to the news on my walkman constantly - I had a small sister at home and mum had banned the news temporarily at home. I felt bad that I had fallen asleep rather than stay up - I had not realised how serious it was. For a while it just made me so sad.

[twinmama]

On 3/18/2017 at 5:23 AM, Jug Band Baby said:

Whenever you are irked by someone else getting a lot of attention, as yourself if you'd be willing to trade positions with them.  Then be glad you aren't the one in the spotlight.

While I agree in theory, there are plenty of people who lose children (like I believe Penny did) and get no recognition. Baby Jessica is clearly alive and well and while I don't begrudge her the media coverage of her case, it doesn't mean others aren't suffering worse tragedies (which I am not implying is what you were saying!).

3 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

No one wants to be in either situation, but to dismiss the imminent danger another mother's child is in because yours is in the NICU is pretty crass.

Oh LOL you have very clearly never delivered a child you never get to see because they are immediately rushed to the NICU. Have you held a baby weighing 1lb 15oz? Have you watched your child turn blue and need medical intervention to bring them back to life? I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING worse than NICU, except your NICU baby dying. Baby Jessica's parents got to know her, they had happy moments after her birth, they had 58 hours of worrying if she'd be ok. My babies spent NINE WEEKS in the NICU with me worrying if they'd live or die. 

3 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

I know babies in the NICU are fighting for their lives, but they aren't in imminent danger.  

That is complete and utter bullshit and not true. Have you heard of necrotizing enterocolitis? NICU babies are in constant danger from infections while in the hospital.

I've done NICU, I would choose baby in the well for 3 days over 9 weeks in the NICU absolutely any fucking day of the year. There is no comparison at all. That said, the pain Olympics are pointless. No one wants their kids sick or premature and the NICU anymore than they want their toddler stuck in a well. Have some empathy.

[Carm_88]

3 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

You can worry about someone else's baby while still worrying about your own.  Concern isn't zero-sum.  Hold your NICU-baby's warn hand and be in solidarity with the mother who doesn't know if she'll ever get to touch the warm hand of her child again or if the outside forces threatening her child will be her death.

I'm sorry, I'm not a parent nor have I had a child in NICU but I had a brother fighting for his life in PICU. If you have ever sat by a bed and watched as a machine was breathing for your love one, you have an idea of the type of mental and emotional exhaustion that you faced. After 21 days of watching my brother fight for every single breath, watch him crash in front of ours eyes; I didn't have any fucks left to give. I was wore out emotionally and physically; yet I know how lucky we were. 

So given that, I can't imagine sitting beside a much wanted and loved baby, as they struggled as my brother did, to have much sympathy for another set of parents. I feel like as a parent with a sick child, you would be bargaining that if your child got well, you would do everything, you wouldn't let them out of your sight. Have some compassion, you have no idea what she was going through. Being in a hospital doesn't mean that someone will live. 

[twinmama]

2 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Being in a hospital doesn't mean that someone will live. 

How true. My tiny preemies lived, my good friend's baby was also born early, he only lived for a month. Spent every second of that in one of the best NICU's in the country. Didn't save his life, didn't spare his parents the pain of losing him.

On 3/18/2017 at 6:27 PM, Stormy said:

I was born on the exact day and year of Nicole Brown Simpson's murder (June 12, 1994). My mom was upset because my middle name's Nicole and they'd given it to me before they saw the news. Twenty-two years later and the Orlando nightclub massacre happens...I'm not big on celebrating birthdays anyway...

My husband turned 20 on 9/11/01. He says he's happy because he has a really low bar for what makes a good birthday! No mass death? Win!

[Fascinated]

17 minutes ago, twinmama said:

While I agree in theory, there are plenty of people who lose children (like I believe Penny did) and get no recognition. Baby Jessica is clearly alive and well and while I don't begrudge her the media coverage of her case, it doesn't mean others aren't suffering worse tragedies (which I am not implying is what you were saying!).

Oh LOL you have very clearly never delivered a child you never get to see because they are immediately rushed to the NICU. Have you held a baby weighing 1lb 15oz? Have you watched your child turn blue and need medical intervention to bring them back to life? I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING worse than NICU, except your NICU baby dying. Baby Jessica's parents got to know her, they had happy moments after her birth, they had 58 hours of worrying if she'd be ok. My babies spent NINE WEEKS in the NICU with me worrying if they'd live or die. 

That is complete and utter bullshit and not true. Have you heard of necrotizing enterocolitis? NICU babies are in constant danger from infections while in the hospital.

I've done NICU, I would choose baby in the well for 3 days over 9 weeks in the NICU absolutely any fucking day of the year. There is no comparison at all. That said, the pain Olympics are pointless. No one wants their kids sick or premature and the NICU anymore than they want their toddler stuck in a well. Have some empathy.

I actually can't believe this needs to be stated, but you did so very well, @twinmama.  All I will add is that my child was in immediate danger in the NICU.  So much so that he died there.  This conversation seems ridiculous. Babies in the NICU are in immediate danger. Period.  That's why they are there, for fuck's sake.  

[mtc3659]

My first news memory is 9/11. I was 10, in 4th grade and was going to a Catholic school. All the teachers got called out to the office and my teacher came back crying and said we had to start praying the rosary. She never told us what happened. I'm pretty sure only the eighth graders found out at school. Then kids started to be called out of school, one at a time. My neighbor's mom came to pick up the five neighborhood kids from the school. We listened to the radio on the way home. When my sister and I finally got home, both my parents were home. My mom had picked up my baby sister from daycare and my dad had recently had back surgery, but they both cried really hard when they saw us. My baby sister, who was only a year and a half old, has no memory of the day, nor do most of my students (I teach high school). It's weird.

[twinmama]

6 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

I actually can't believe this needs to be stated, but you did so very well, @twinmama.  All I will add is that my child was in immediate danger in the NICU.  So much so that he died there.  This conversation seems ridiculous. Babies in the NICU are in immediate danger. Period.  That's why they are there, for fuck's sake.  

Oh Fascinated, I'm so sorry for your loss. By definition, it's intensive care. I'm sorry your boy isn't here with you, that is just not fair.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Kittikatz said:

@Jug Band Baby I fully agree that the whole Baby Jessica incident was horrifying. Any time a person is in imminent danger of death is pretty bloody awful. That said, your idea the babies in the NICU are not in imminent danger of death is bullshit. My brother spent most of his 16 months there, and thinking the situation was no worse than usual, my parents took seven year old me on one of our regular after dinner trips to the hospital to visit. Things somehow went south in a hurry, and I had a front row seat to him coding and the intense efforts the staff there went through as they tried, and failed, to save him. 

I'm so very sorry for you and your parents' loss.  

1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

Stockholm Syndrome is pretty hard to understand even as an adult. And I think we need to see the Duggars in the same way. I think a lot of us can't help but wonder why the adult kids don't try to escape the madness, I know I do. But they are all born with Stockholm Syndrome. 

 

That's an interesting way to look at things. I don't know if their situation really fits the definition of Stockholm Sybdrome though. To the best of my knowledge, Stockholm Syndrome is developing feelings of attachment to a captor. I suppose it could be argued that their parents are their captors, but I think I view their situation as more of being brainwashed than anything. 

I do agree that it's likely very difficult to even consider separating from the lifestyle - even if they wanted to - because they have those feelings of attachment to their family though. Difficult, but not impossible.

9 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

I actually can't believe this needs to be stated, but you did so very well, @twinmama.  All I will add is that my child was in immediate danger in the NICU.  So much so that he died there.  This conversation seems ridiculous. Babies in the NICU are in immediate danger. Period.  That's why they are there, for fuck's sake.  

I am so, so sorry for your loss as well. No parent should ever have to bury their child.  

----------

ETA: @twinmama I have a friend who turned 16 the day of the September 11th attacks. We didn't realize until he mentioned it at practice that night. Not the greatest birthday he's ever celebrated.