Shannon: another adoption crazy.

[ChunkyBarbie]

Shannon even admitted that she is out for revenge against this boy. What. The. Eff!  She also basically  wants to look into his eyes and shame him and tell him how damages he is before he boards the plane back home.  Yeah, Jesus would totally love that Shannon.  I don't think I can keep reading her blog. 

[Jess]

I really hope the kid is allowed to keep his US citizenship after everything he went through. I am sorry but the kid is the victim here not her. If he wants to go back to the Ukrain then I hope that happens if he wants to stay and try to build a life here then I hope that happens. This lady does not get that isn't about her it's about th child. No matter what he did he was  child. She the adult that made the mistake and the bad reprocussions should fall on her not the kid. I tried reading her blog but it made me to angry so I didn't get very far.

[Black Aliss]

Someone asked if an adoptee from another country was automatically a US citizen, and the answer to that is "not necessarily if the adoption took place before 2000 and only after 2000 for children under 18 years of age". Before  then it was the responsibility of the adoptive parents to have their children naturalized. It's surprising how many parents didn't bother with that. Recently a man in my part of the country was deported back  to South Korea, where he was born. He has a wife and children here, but he did  stupid stuff years ago that got him arrested, and eventually deported late last year.

It's a really tragic story, but not one that would come as a surprise to anyone on FJ. He was adopted at age 3 by abusive fundies who then passed him on to another fundie family who were also abusive, so much so that they were later convicted of criminal mistreatment, assault, and sexual abuse. Still, it was this 16 year old kid who, after being kicked out of his home, broke in to retrieve his personal belongings, was charged with burglary, and served 25 months in jail. Search the internet for "Adam Crapser" if you want to know the whole ugly saga.

[crawfishgirl]

2 hours ago, heidi said:

That's not true? Once the adoption papers are signed the adoption is finalized. The adoptee is even reissued a new birth certificate with their adoptive parents listed as their parents. Was your coworker maybe talking about fostering?

That is why she told me that she was adopting internationally.  She did not foster.  As I mentioned, I was repeating her words and rationale for adopting internationally instead of domestically (maybe coworkers aren't always correct??   ).  I just googled it and skimmed over the results, and here are a couple of interesting articles that I found:  http://www.laurachristianson.com/laura/what-happens-when-birth-parents-want-their-child-back/ and http://family.findlaw.com/adoption/state-adoption-information.html  

 

 

[Terrie]

There is a time period between surrender and finalization when bio parents can revoke their surrender. Minimum length varies by state. Some shadier agencies purposely try to have bio moms give birth in states with shorter time periods. However, the majority of stories you see where an adoption is challenged and undone by a bio parent involve the bio father. Again, shadier agencies play fast and loose to cut out bio fathers. So, really, the lesson should not be "go international if you're afraid of birth parents reclaiming" but "Avoid shady agencies and make sure both bio parents are on board with the adoption plan."

[imokit]

Um she adopted a foreign 14 year old with a language barrier because was cute.  What did she expect him to do?  And I don't get the whole sending him back and changing his name business.  If she adopted him, then he's her's.  If things don't work out because he's out of control you give him to CPS and they take him.  You don't strip their name away and spend thousands trying to get them deported.

[Carm_88]

@Black Aliss That is so heartbreaking. That poor man, the American system definitely failed him.

[SoybeanQueen]

19 hours ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

 Is it because there's less oversight? Or because they can introduce them to Jesus?

Ding ding ding ding!

Also, international adoption provides a whole orphan narrative for their blog, fundraising opportunities so they can advance their savior story, and even sometimes a child that is obviously a different race than the rest of the family so they get extra oohs and aaahs and "you're so selfless" compliments at the grocery store.

U.S. kids are also harder to cut off from their birth families. It's more difficult to pretend they were just wasting away and waiting for their savior parents to arrive. Fewer convenient and believable "dropped off at the orphanage gate" stories.

Forgive my bitterness on this topic right now. Someone I know recently rehomed a teenager from Ukraine after less than a year. CLaimed there were no resources available to help him. Bless her heart, she even announced that I couldn't know what it was like because my kids were younger when they were adopted (through foster care) and so they don't have the same issues. Sure, Jan, I don't know a damn thing about traumatic pasts. I'm so angry I could scream.

[Mercer]

In addition to the reasons that have been mentioned, sometimes prospective adoptive parents who have some internalized fears of or prejudices about minorities in America imagine that transracial international adoption will somehow be a different or better experience.

It can be a pretty big shock to those adoptive parents when, for example, their cute little Ethiopian tot is not distinguished by society from any other African American young man after having grown up in the United States.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every adoption (and may or may not apply to Z, since there are multiple races in Ukraine) but it's a factor for some.

[Lurky]

So, I'm especially wondering why, when people adopt older children internationally, they don't bother to learn the language.  Is there any justification for it?  I can't for the life of me understand the trauma of a kid having to shift cultures anyway, especially when there are marked racial differences, and the kid is suddenly surrounded by people who look so different - but the added problems of suddenly not being able to communicate must really hurt.

I know some adoptive parents do make efforts to learn the language of the area they're adopting from, and make big efforts to connect with communities of the same origin, when they're back in the USA, but there seem to be more who just don't bother.  Does anyone have any insight why this is? It seems like such a bare minimum - and not just learning woods like hungry, thirsty, where's the toilet etc, but enough language so the child can talk about his or her feelings.

It feels like there's an expectation in our bad-adoptive parents that they've raised the cash and are giving the child SO much, that the child SHOULD do a lot of work to assimilate and become American - is this being unfair?  Is it ignorance rather than intention?  And why on earth don't people who can raise all this cash not make the effort to go to some kind of parenting classes to help them with these things, if they feel they really have to take an older child away from everything they know?

[Foudeb]

So, she basically bought a kid off a catalogue because he's cute. Ripped him away from his home under false pretences (that he could bring his mum along) and then, when he learned the truth and lashed out, abandoned him and is now engaging in court battles with him. And all the while he's still a kid. Wow. What a piece of work.

The Child Catchers should be mandatory reading for anyone who wants to adopt internationally.

[starfish]

I think this whole international adoption is a real thing with fundie families now. They have their fundraising garage sales at the church, various other fund raisers, get the whole church praying for them, blog about it,  get the child over here and then you never hear from them again unless it's to re-home them because RAD.

[Anonymousguest]

I have been in a community where there are lots of adopted kids, both domestically and internationally. A lot of the people I know adopted internationally to avoid having to do a home study with the state. I would say that's the biggest reason I've heard for people choosing to go international. Second would be involvement of the birth family. There were a whole bunch of people from church who adopted from Liberia several years ago. One family got 4 or 5 kids. It's been a nightmare for them. No one had birth certificates, so no proof of ages, and with the agency, or the country, someone was really pushing to get kids out of there. Once they got their kids home it turned out that they were probably closer to 20 than the 12-15 they thought. After some decent nutrition they gained weight, started menstruating, etc. They had trouble with drugs and alcohol, prostitution, etc almost as soon as they got then home. They were violent and dangerous and a that to the other kids in the home. They did at least get professional help and the parents stuck with them, but it's been very difficult and at least one of them ended up in an institution. 

I think the savior syndrome is strong. And I understand the feeling. I have SO much, shouldn't I share it with the Less fortunate? The whole adoption thing is often presented as a duty. I do sometimes feel guilty for not being willing or able to do it. Adopting older kids is really really hard, and I think most people (at least ones I know) going into are completely unprepared for how incredibly hard it is. Even if you adopt a child from your own state and don't have the language barrier they likely aren't going to see you as a self sacrificing saint, opening your home to them. In many cases you are part of the enemy, part of the system that took them away from their parents. Even kids who are fairly young when they are adopted still go through this later. There are some great stories out there, but most I know would say it's the hardest thing they have ever done, even the ones who were prepared and receive counseling and have great support. And some of the families I know won't even seek help because they are afraid of mainstream psychology. They won't go to a counselor or child psychologist because they don't want to be told not to spank their kids. Or things are so bad they are afraid cps will get involved.

 

[FormerlyFundyLite]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:27 PM, Joyleaf said:

Does the adoption make him a US citizen? And if that's the case, can he bring his mom, as immediate relative, to the US?
Or is she not his immediate relative then anymore because the adoption cuts the family ties?

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 2:11 PM, Black Aliss said:

Someone asked if an adoptee from another country was automatically a US citizen, and the answer to that is "not necessarily if the adoption took place before 2000 and only after 2000 for children under 18 years of age".

Yes to both of these. Some of my siblings came home in 2000 and although they were technically US citizens the second their feet hit American soil (that was seriously how it was explained to us...like in The Terminal with Tom Hanks, it only counted once they were "officially" in the US--international transit didn't count), because the law was so new, my mom spent several months (years?) fighting with INS to get them their citizenship paperwork. They had received green cards, but they were technically citizens and should have been issued citizenship documents, not green cards.

I wish I could say "If you have questions, I'd love to chat," but at this point, I really do feel that their story is theirs, and although their adoption impacts my story in some interesting ways, I can't talk about my side of it without compromising their right to tell their own story in their own way. Suffice it to say that my parents adopted internationally twice--several years apart, I was almost/already an adult, all the kids were older adoptees, and my evangelical parents didn't adopt internationally for any of the reasons yet mentioned.

12 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

I have been in a community where there are lots of adopted kids, both domestically and internationally. A lot of the people I know adopted internationally to avoid having to do a home study with the state.

Interesting. My family (whole family since my sister and I were over a certain age) had to do government home studies (multiple...they're only valid for so long) and background checks. Didn't realize there are states that don't require a home study for international adoptions.

[Anonymousguest]

33 minutes ago, FormerlyFundyLite said:

Yes to both of these. Some of my siblings came home in 2000 and although they were technically US citizens the second their feet hit American soil (that was seriously how it was explained to us...like in The Terminal with Tom Hanks, it only counted once they were "officially" in the US--international transit didn't count), because the law was so new, my mom spent several months (years?) fighting with INS to get them their citizenship paperwork. They had received green cards, but they were technically citizens and should have been issued citizenship documents, not green cards.

I wish I could say "If you have questions, I'd love to chat," but at this point, I really do feel that their story is theirs, and although their adoption impacts my story in some interesting ways, I can't talk about my side of it without compromising their right to tell their own story in their own way. Suffice it to say that my parents adopted internationally twice--several years apart, I was almost/already an adult, all the kids were older adoptees, and my evangelical parents didn't adopt internationally for any of the reasons yet mentioned.

Interesting. My family (whole family since my sister and I were over a certain age) had to do government home studies (multiple...they're only valid for so long) and background checks. Didn't realize there are states that don't require a home study for international adoptions.

I think it's more that some countries don't require a state home study. All agencies/countries require some kind of home study, but not all of them use the DHS study, they'll do their own. 

[Bad Wolf]

If a child is in foster care, the parents have 12 months to get their act together. In my state, if someone is giving up their baby for adoption, they have 72 hours to change their mind and the adoptive parents don't get the baby until after then

[LeftCoastLurker]

Hi All, I decided to give my input on several items discussed. As background, my husband and I have two children, both adopted internationally. We did not even try to pursue domestic adoption.

1. Our children became US citizens as soon as we passed through immigration due to a law that became valid in February of 2001. The US government did NOT send us any paperwork confirming this. I had to jump through hoops to get social security numbers, delayed registrations of birth (birth certificate, basically) and passports. Some steps required petitioning our county's superior court.

2. I know somebody upthread mentioned that one reason people choose international adoption is because they don't have to do a home study. That must be dependent on country, because our adoption required (and I may be forgetting some things since our last adoption happened 13 years ago): letters of reference, financial statements, medical records, full blown home study, and pictures of us and our home. 

3. I thought I'd just add in our reasons for adopting internationally. Please keep in mind that this was what worked for US. We struggled with infertility for seven years. Seven years of medical procedures for both of us, taking temperature, drugs, giving myself shots, etc.... I had great medical insurance and we were able to run through three IVF cycles. Two resulted in pregnancy (one was twins); both ended in miscarriages. SEVEN years of hope/despair/hope cycles can wreak havoc on your mental state. We just wanted to grow our family. During our seven year struggle we watched friends struggle through the private adoption morass and other friends through the foster care system.

I will admit we were being selfish, but also protective of our mental state...we felt we couldn't take any more disappointments that might arise from a birth mother backing out...both of which we saw with our friends.

We needed a "for sure" thing; our first child was 10 months old, two years later we adopted our second. It was long and hard, but oh so worth it.

[Mercer]

12 hours ago, Lurky said:

So, I'm especially wondering why, when people adopt older children internationally, they don't bother to learn the language.  Is there any justification for it? 

I've heard two primary reasons:

1.) They think it'll be easier for the child to learn English quickly with full immersion.

2.) Learning another language as an adult is difficult.

I do think there's some validity to #1 in the sense that at least it's based on a good intention for the child, but I really don't think that learning a few basics of the child's language to ease their transition is going to have a significant impact on the child's long-term English language gain. Plenty of kids grow up in bilingual households just fine and function in both languages, so it's not like use of one language is an insurmountable barrier to another. I also think that when a child first comes home, building attachment is far more important, and being able to have some level of communication is helpful for that.

I think #2 is frankly complete BS. Yes, it is difficult to learn another language, but it's a lot more difficult for the child to leave behind literally everything familiar. At least make some effort to reach out to the child, rather than expecting the child to do all the hard parts.

[Lurky]

@Mercer Thanks for the reply.  I am scratching my head at 1), because as you say, surely the parents knowing some of their language would help the child's English lessons?  But even moreso, as you say, attachment is more important, and also dealing with the child's culture shock. 

Even if, I dunno, the parent being able to speak the child's language delayed the kid becoming completely fluent by, let's say, 6 months (and as you say, this doesn't happen with bilingual kids, and when I learned a language, living in another country as a kid, speaking English to my teacher helped me understand the other language a LOT), that's not a huge deal, compared to soothing the child's trauma.  The "full immersion" method is fine for things like colours, food, basics, but it must be super-hard to learn about the more complicated things related on emotions, context etc etc

ETA re #2, YES, YES, YES!!!

[Mercer]

The more I read of Shannon's blog, the more I think she's either making stuff up whole cloth, or at best wildly exaggerating.

The heroically martyred adoptive parents. The cartoonishly sociopathic adoptee. Every single professional involved being either completely inept or deliberately obstructive. The senator stepping in to save the day because their case is just so damn special that he now wants to completely reform the entire adoption system on their behalf. And on and on.

It frankly seems more to me like someone's feverish imaginings of an adoption melodrama than a realistic situation.

I've also never personally witnessed a probation case being handled in the way she's describing, nor can I imagine the courts and the immigration officials of two different sovereign countries bending over backwards to grant the latest whim of a delinquent teenager. The more I read, the less it makes sense.

So I'm calling bullshit on this one. I know crazy things happen, but all the crazy things she describes as happening to one family are just too much to be believable to me. I wonder if Z even exists.

[desertvixen]

@Mercer, I agree with you om the language.  I learned Russian as a 19-20 year old (with classes for 6-8 hours a day) and it was rough.  However, it also taught me that if you aren't a native English speaker, English is NUTS.  It's ridiculous, like the letters are made up and none of the rules REALLY count.   But that these people can't even learn a little bit, just to help the kids along - that's ridiculous.

[nelliebelle1197]

@Mercer I agree; the whole thing is weird as hell. "Shannon" is lying, either about the whole thing or what really happened with Z. It is weird to keep writing these strange and out of context random posts for who??? No one.

Regardless, she makes Fencin' Kimi look like Mary Poppins.

[katilac]

On 2/1/2017 at 6:49 AM, Terrie said:

  I don't believe those summer visit programs are intended to match children with families.  

That may not be their stated purpose, but I'm pretty sure it's what they hope happens. Around here, they're called "the adoption auditions." 

Which sounds awful, but I do think it's better to meet and spend some time with an older child before committing to international adoption. 

[Anonymousguest]

29 minutes ago, katilac said:

That may not be their stated purpose, but I'm pretty sure it's what they hope happens. Around here, they're called "the adoption auditions." 

Which sounds awful, but I do think it's better to meet and spend some time with an older child before committing to international adoption. 

I do know someone who adopted the teen she had hosted several summers in a row. He was also Ukrainian. Their relationship went well. She had already raised teens, and had adopted previously and knew what she was getting into. 

[Toothfairy]

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Lurky said:

I think the weirdest thing is that this woman adopted a teenager (an older teen?) who had a living parent.  I don't understand how she thought that would work?

International adoption is a huge scam. Most kids have families but they're passed off as orphans. 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Joyleaf said:

Does the adoption make him a US citizen? And if that's the case, can he bring his mom, as immediate relative, to the US?
Or is she not his immediate relative then anymore because the adoption cuts the family ties?

No. There's certain paperwork that must be filed. A lot of adoptive parents don't do it. Their kids risk being deported 

On Thursday, February 02, 2017 at 9:57 AM, SnazzyNazzy said:

I think it was last year, that Netflix had a documentary about a family that adopted three Russian kids at once, The Dark Matter of Love was what it was called.

I found the movie to be quite sad, and a visual interpretation of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". The thing that stood out to me the most, was the crippling language barrier. It was almost like the American parents had the attitude of "I don't need to learn Russian, because these kids will be speaking English", while the kids had the attitude of "why are they making me give up my own language".

I truly felt for those three kids. It has to be a mindfuck of epic proportions, to go from everything that they know, to something entirely different, with absolutely no way to effectively talk about it because of the language barrier. 

Man, that movie gave me the serious sads.

I saw this too. The adoptive parents were assholes. Even changing the child's name without permission