"RadicalFemininity," a treasure trove of fundie cliches

[L1o2u3]

He could really  be Jim. Somebody on his Facebook page called him Jim, congratulating on his engagement/betrothal. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I'm amazed he passed the test of getting through Daddy Washburn since he's so new to the religion. But I imagine they don't have many suitors coming around and he probably wants to get them married off young.

[Rachel333]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm amazed he passed the test of getting through Daddy Washburn since he's so new to the religion. But I imagine they don't have many suitors coming around and he probably wants to get them married off young.

There really can't be many marriage options that fit their strict standards since it's such a small community.

[Bretta]

On 2017-6-4 at 11:37 AM, L1o2u3 said:

She even publicly committed to "not withhold herself from him except by mutual agreement". The whole vows are very, very awkward, with lots of helpmeets, weaker vessels etc. in it. 

Did he vow the same thing? Because in the Bible it's actually written don't withhold yourselves from each other, implying something mutual and equal rather than how fundies usually interpret it

[L1o2u3]

Yes, he did too. 

[L1o2u3]

Abigail Washburn (18) got married to Silas LaGoy (19) yesterday. 

 

They are  both so young... 

[JMarie]

17 hours ago, L1o2u3 said:

Abigail Washburn (18) got married to Silas LaGoy (19) yesterday. 

 

They are  both so young... 

I don't know this fundie, but I googled the new husband and found an old pic. 

(Caution:  matching outfits, names all start with S)

http://www.camusofamily.com/Files/Lagoys.html

[L1o2u3]

Yes, the Lagoy family has a lot of kids. 

 

I don't know what Silas does for a living. I've got a friend that is friends with them, but I think it would not be fair to ask her und put that information on here. I just know that they want to have kids straightaway because they said it somewhere in a comment on facebook. 

[Pianokeeper]

Silas's sister runs this blog. http://www.virtuousdaughters.com/about/

It includes a link to the family's courting questionnaire, so presumably Abigail was found worthy and answered correctly regarding card games, etc! 

http://www.virtuousdaughters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Updated-Questionnaire1.pdf

[smittykins]

Ho. Lee. Shit. 

That is all.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I can't get over the name 'LaGoy' for a family of fake Jews!

[meee]

Side note: I looked at the Virtuous Daughters blog and she has a blogroll on the side.  I'm always surprised when fundies of the "only we are doing it right" type advertise others' blogs, and I've never heard of any of them, so.......new fodder for snarking?

[EowynW]

"When you are married, how do u expect conflicts to be handled in your own family?"

how do u. Haha! 

[BobTheWalrus]

On 05/06/2017 at 7:53 PM, Rachel333 said:

. A lot of them, probably even the majority, came from Judaism first. Anecdotally, the really odd ones were usually the ones who came from Christianity to Messianic Judaism. It was a couple like that who grilled me on whether I was ready for the rapture.

This is always weird to me. My understanding was that messianic by definition meant Jewish people who believe that their Messiah had come (Jesus). So they're still culturally Jewish because you can't change that, but they would celebrate in a slightly different way. I do get Christians wanting to understand the Jewish faith because Jesus was Jewish, but it seems weird to co-opt it in that way. Especially as the process of actually converting to Judaism is very strict and taken very seriously. And also as there is a lot in the New Testament about how the Law brings death and we are not required to keep it because it's been fulfilled in Jesus. I think these people just like the cool-sounding Jewish festivals but if you actually required them to live as Chassidic Jews, for example, they would flip out. I don't mean that to sound derogatory to Jewish people at all. I just think that a lot of these "messianic" Christians have no clue what they are doing.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

OMG, my eyes!  Those matching outfits burned my retinas.

In that 2006 photo, several of those children (Suzannah, Seth, Samantha, Sharon,) looked awfully old by fundie standards to still be single.  

I wonder if they still are 11 years later.

Edited to add:  I looked at the VD blog,

1st:  Samantha is now 30 and looks destined to be a SAHD like the Botkin and Maxwell daughters. This must be so so so hard in a world where your 19 year old brother gets married, and where a woman's worth is defined only by marriage and children.  She is, by their standards, a non-person.

2nd:  SOTDT srtikes again "It wasn’t an easy challenge to live a set apart live for Him in this sinful world."

And 3rd how does a Christian describe him/herself as "Torah observant"?  That strikes me as the essence of being Jewish.

Edited to add again:  The comments on the About page date from 2011, and Samantha says she is 30, That makes her now 35-36.  Probably definitely no marriage in her future.  And she needs to stop referring to herself as a young lady.  She's not old, but not a young lady any more.

[CuttySark]

3 hours ago, BobTheWalrus said:

My understanding was that messianic by definition meant Jewish people who believe that their Messiah had come (Jesus).

Messianic "Judaism" has nothing to do with Judaism. It is a Christian evangelical sect deliberately misrepresenting themselves as Jewish in order to encourage conversions within the Jewish community. They don't follow any form of Rabbinic law, ignore the mishnah and Talmud, and directly break the requirement in Judaism not to proselytize. They're massive pains in the ass.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianic-judaism/

http://jewsforjudaism.ca/7-answers-to-jews-for-jesus/

[Pammy]

"Torah Observant" Christianity usually implies that an Evangelical Christian has decided to follow various rules/laws found in the first few books of the Old Testament.

They don't follow all of them (Obviously! They aren't sacrificing animals or stoning teenagers or anything.) but they are into the sabbath, 'clean and unclean foods', festivals, and other similar lifestyle-oriented requirements.

I have some respect for them at least not claiming to be "Jews" of any kind. They don't incorporate any post-OT Jewish traditions (except maybe Hanukkah?).  They consider the OT more binding than most Christians do, and are quite a bit more legalistic about it. The application of the Torah is highly selective and implemented without much respect for original contexts.

It's not an unexpected extension of the standard fundie, "God said it, that settles it." approach to the Bible.

[FeministShrew]

In the last 10 yers, a friend of mine went from being raised mainstream Southern Bapist, to nondenominational charismatic, to proclaiming herself a Messianic Jew, to now suddenly discovering "hidden memories" of her mom, aunts, & grandmother practicing what she calls "Appalachian Traditional Witchcraft." She has opened a "metaphysical" shop where she sells crystals, oils, wands, jewellry, special candles made during the full moon, etc., etc.
Her latest move seems to be toward using peyote and other halluncinogens as part of a Native American church.  She's talking about moving to a commune in Washington, where there will be a "Native American" temple. Her son is leaving June 20th to go out & help clear the land.

I think some people are genuinely searching, and some just want to be Sooper Speshul Spirtial Snowflakes.

[Letgo]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:55 AM, Pianokeeper said:

Silas's sister runs this blog. http://www.virtuousdaughters.com/about/

It includes a link to the family's courting questionnaire, so presumably Abigail was found worthy and answered correctly regarding card games, etc! 

http://www.virtuousdaughters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Updated-Questionnaire1.pdf

Just read that questionnaire. I've known my husband for over 41 years and been married for 38 and have NO idea what his answers would be on so many questions. In fact, much of it has never even come up in our relationship. Heck, I don't even know what my answers would be. How does anyone pass muster?

[BobTheWalrus]

 

Messianic "Judaism" has nothing to do with Judaism. It is a Christian evangelical sect deliberately misrepresenting themselves as Jewish in order to encourage conversions within the Jewish community. They don't follow any form of Rabbinic law, ignore the mishnah and Talmud, and directly break the requirement in Judaism not to proselytize. They're massive pains in the ass.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianic-judaism/

http://jewsforjudaism.ca/7-answers-to-jews-for-jesus/

Maybe it's a difference between UK and US? I mean, I know one or two Christians who like to pretend follow Jewish laws without really doing it, as you described. But over here I've only ever heard messianic to mean Jewish people who also follow Jesus. As in, they're definitely Jewish by heritage, but accept Jesus as the messiah promised in the writings of the Prophets; they're not Gentile Christians pick and mixing from Torah.

[CuttySark]

 

Maybe it's a difference between UK and US? I mean, I know one or two Christians who like to pretend follow Jewish laws without really doing it, as you described. But over here I've only ever heard messianic to mean Jewish people who also follow Jesus. As in, they're definitely Jewish by heritage, but accept Jesus as the messiah promised in the writings of the Prophets; they're not Gentile Christians pick and mixing from Torah.

I'm not in the US. But Jesus-focused "messianic Judaism" is an absolute contradiction in terms, because as far as Judaism is concerned, Jesus did not fulfill any of the requirements to be moshiach.

Some of the followers of the Lubavitcher Rebbe are veering pretty close to this as well, for a more modern example of a messianic cult mindset gripping some Jewish communities. (Also see Shabbatai Tzvi in the 17th century. This sort of thing happens fairly regularly.)

The people you're referencing would be ethnically Jewish, converting to a Christian sect which has appropriated aspects of religious Judaism as a smokescreen. Followers of Christ are by definition Christian, and embrace a core theology incompatible with Judaism. 

It's like saying... 'vegan meatloaf.' You can mess with the texture and add ingredients to change the colour and taste all you like to make it seem like meatloaf, but it'll never change the fact that there's no meat involved. 

[Rachel333]

I've often seen people distinguish between Jews for Jesus, which is a group known for being deceptive--including actually lying--to try to convert Jewish people, and other Messianic "Jews," who don't necessarily proselytize or lie about their beliefs.

[FundieFarmer]

Holy Moses, that thing was 11 pages long. That's more than the paperwork than we did to join our church.

[lilah]

On 6/14/2017 at 7:25 AM, BobTheWalrus said:

This is always weird to me. My understanding was that messianic by definition meant Jewish people who believe that their Messiah had come (Jesus). So they're still culturally Jewish because you can't change that, but they would celebrate in a slightly different way. I do get Christians wanting to understand the Jewish faith because Jesus was Jewish, but it seems weird to co-opt it in that way. Especially as the process of actually converting to Judaism is very strict and taken very seriously. And also as there is a lot in the New Testament about how the Law brings death and we are not required to keep it because it's been fulfilled in Jesus. I think these people just like the cool-sounding Jewish festivals but if you actually required them to live as Chassidic Jews, for example, they would flip out. I don't mean that to sound derogatory to Jewish people at all. I just think that a lot of these "messianic" Christians have no clue what they are doing.

Agreed. The way they approach Jewish traditions/holidays are very different from how most Jews would approach it. There always seems to be a certain amount of double Consciousness in trying to use Jewish rituals without really understanding the whole Talmudic rationals behind it.

 

I've always gotten the impression that most Messianic Jews are Christians who really really like being legalistic and so they start appropriating Orthodox Jewish ideas but often with weird interpretations. Kind of like Lina who wanted to perform mikveh in a swimming pool and wear a tichel when she was unmarried as just practice

[Bretta]

16 hours ago, CuttySark said:

It's like saying... 'vegan meatloaf.' You can mess with the texture and add ingredients to change the colour and taste all you like to make it seem like meatloaf, but it'll never change the fact that there's no meat involved. 

Kosher bacon, anyone?

 

Edit: I'm not against kosher bacon