RC Sproul Jr, 2016 MERGED

[acheronbeach]

|?  You mean MADD could tip off the local media?  I mean, anyone can do that - you or me or anyone.  Usually in smaller towns the local reporters are pretty happy to hear about any interesting case to write about.  

[MamaJunebug]

Lisa's FB shows a much-trimmer Spanky (Spanks has less need for Spanx?), FWIW. Alcoholism is a stinker of a disease and especially for a guy trained his whole life to be the precious heir to dad's sizeable kingdom.

I hope the courts aren't fooled by his healthful, happy new appearance and I hope any changes are long-lasting.

So, our insider visitor says the house belonged to Lisa's most recent ex-? Check out the subdivision lake in the FB posts. Nice work, Ruth/Lisa! I barely got the single-wide!

 

[Howl]

If Spanky had half a brain and I'm sure his lawyer encouraged him to do this, he'd have gotten the alcohol-monitoring ankle bracelet and done rehab on his own, so he'd show up in Drug Court looking like he cared about a serious DUI.  Be interesting to see what happens.  Ms. Spanky II is a nutritionist, so guessing the Spankster is eating a more healthful diet. 

In a town just south of my city, a car crash fatality caused by a drunk driver with two previous DUIs was upgraded to a murder charge, and yesterday the judge handed down a 20-year sentence.  Pretty rare occurrence, but I'd like to see it happen more often.  Amazed that with such a history of serious drinking, Spanky has not had a DUI (that we know of) or been in some type of accident. 

[hoipolloi]

14 minutes ago, Howl said:

In a town just south of my city, a car crash fatality caused by a drunk driver with two previous DUIs was upgraded to a murder charge, and yesterday the judge handed down a 20-year sentence.  Pretty rare occurrence, but I'd like to see it happen more often.

Speaking from family experience, someone has to die in order for there to be serious legal consequences. The loser who hit my in-laws -- putting FIL face first into the steering wheel & then into the windshield, requiring months of ICU & acute care -- got 24 months, IIRC. It supposedly came with alcohol rehab which is why the family objected to a proposed release at 18 months for good behavior; we figured he needed all the reinforcement he could get before being turned loose.

Re: Mrs. Spanky's FB page. While I hope that the photos reflect reality for the family, it struck me that they will also look nice in court.

[MamaJunebug]

45 minutes ago, Howl said:

Amazed that with such a history of serious drinking, Spanky has not had a DUI (that we know of) or been in some type of accident. 

The parenthetical portion is crucial, of course...

[Jasmar]

Drinking and driving is what gave me the courage to finally leave my emotionally abusive asshole husband. It took as long as it did because I had no work history since the mid-90s and three young kids. But as stressful as poverty is, I have my kids and we're safe.

So Spanky? I hope he gets to spend some quality time behind bars. No one ever caught my XH, so he's still out there. He's too high-functioning, and no one else thinks he has a problem. Hopefully when he finally causes an accident he'll be the only one hurt. \sorrynotsorry

[starfish]

MADD gets involved in a case and they show up in force at all the hearings.  They are not lawyers, but they show up and watch, and the judges know that the case won't fly under the radar. In Texas, we elect our judges. They fear the wrath of MADD. If the MADD members show up, the judges take the case seriously and sentence accordingly.

As a young prosecutor, I had a drunk driving case that was in another county for a hearing (I'm leaving out a ton of details). I knew the defendant had a bunch of people showing up in support of him. I called the local chapter of MADD, explained what was happening with the hearing, and several members showed up and sat right behind me.  I have always appreciated their support.

[Howl]

Spanky's hearing in Drug Court for DUI is scheduled for today (Tuesday, May 30th) at 1:30 Eastern Daylight Time.  Be interesting to know if Drug Court will take him or if it's jury trial for Junior.   Spinderella  Sproul should be tracking the outcome: https://rc-sproul-jr.blogspot.com/ or one can follow along at Junior's  mycase.IN.gov here. 

Also of interest from the summary of actions.  An in limine action was filed by the State of Indiana on May 23rd

My google legal advisor states: "A motion in limine is a motion filed by a party to a lawsuit which asks the court for an order or ruling limiting or preventing certain evidence from being presented by the other side at the trial of the case."

Would this likely be related to the Drug Court hearing or a jury trial?  Any degreed or almost law professionals wanna comment? 

Spanky has four lawyers listed for his case. 

Lisa & RC are now conjoined on facebook at RC-Lisa Sproul. 

 

[DomWackTroll]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

Lisa & RC are now conjoined on facebook at RC-Lisa Sproul. 

How typical. Can't man up on his own page, so he weasels his way back to Facebook on Lisa's. The comments here are so obviously his and not Lisa's that it's laughable: 

Just like PhilDoug, playing the manly man when times are easy, but hiding behind his wife's skirts whenever the going gets tough. 

And you'll notice that he doesn't initial or sign the comments. That will be for Lisa to do while he'll be the assumed default poster. Because ween. 

[mirele]

To my great surprise, the unofficial court record was updated and the result is: Defendant in Person / Ineligible for Drug Court.

So the next step is a status conference on Thursday, June 2 and a jury trial on Tuesday, June 6.

No surprise here; I think someone mentioned above that RC Jr.  didn't qualify for the Drug Court diversion.

[Howl]

Hoo boy!  Interesting that this ploy failed, but I guess the defense is firing off Hail Marys to justify their hourly rates (or do they bill by the quarter hour?).   I still want to know what the prosecution filed to suppress.  

 

[mirele]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Hoo boy!  Interesting that this ploy failed, but I guess the defense is firing off Hail Marys to justify their hourly rates (or do they bill by the quarter hour?).   I still want to know what the prosecution filed to suppress.  

 

He's probably paying by the hour, unless he's got a good, longstanding relationship with the firm, then they might bill in quarter-hour increments.  Hard to say what's going on here. I would suspect R.C. Jr. is paying more per hour than a simple DUI since he's now going to jury trial.

ETA:  You know, I don't blame R.C. Jr. or the attorneys for trying the Hail Mary. Sometimes it works. But even if Spanky had gotten out going to trial, he'd still have to go to rehab, he'd probably have to install an ignition lock on the car for a set period of time, he'd be on probation and subject to drug testing. None of this would be a picnic.  If I were his attorneys at this point, I'd see if the prosecution wants to deal on Thursday at the status conference. 

[CyborgKin]

1 hour ago, mirele said:

To my great surprise,

No surprise here;

I take it the first part is unmarked sarcasm?

[mirele]

Just now, CyborgKin said:

I take it the first part is unmarked sarcasm?

The great surprise was that the court record was updated the same day. I thought it might be overnight before the record updated.

I fully expected Spanky's case not to be tossed to Drug Court, because he didn't qualify. So this is not a surprise. You can apply the /sarcasm label there.

[Howl]

Hope Indiana is capable of bearing down hard on a man who was driving shit-faced, stumbling drunk with his two sons in the car. 

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

Hope Indiana is capable of bearing down hard on a man who was driving shit-faced, stumbling drunk with his two sons in the car. 

Yes.

Sadly, Spanky doesn't seem to be capable of dealing with his sickness on his own. Nor, for that matter, does it appear that Lisa can be the bad cop here.

One wonders if others in the family -- Daddy & Mama Sproul, Spanky's adult children -- have previously tried but failed to get Spanky to go through treatment & rehab.

[Jellybean]

Before this DUI do you think it was clear to Spanky's nearest and dearest that his drinking was problematic? I don't know much about alcoholism but is it possible that RC could have been functioning adequately enough that those around him could convince themselves that it was ok? I know there are often warning signs (defensiveness about drinking, needing a drink first thing in the morning, etc) but could those perhaps be hidden from others? Could he be spinning this as an unlucky 'one time only' (or at least not frequent) occurrence for which he happened to be caught?

[Howl]

I suspect that Spanky has skated all these years by being enabled in EVERYTHING by his dad and possibly mom. Spanky normalized heavy drinking among his congregants; apparently this is common knowledge to anyone that knows him.

Spinderella Sproul has posts from 2005 and 2006  about R.C.'s drinking and the drinking culture at his church.  Check out these posts: Drinking with R.C. Sproul, Jr. and  Party On! (or you might cause RC Sproul Jr to stumble)

Whether Ms. Spanky II realized he was an alcoholic....who knows

[Jellybean]

Thank you for those specific posts, @Howl - I just started reading Spinderella but was feeling a bit daunted by the number of posts and not really being sure what, if anything, I was specifically trying to find. You doing the hard work for me is very much appreciated!

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, Jellybean said:

Before this DUI do you think it was clear to Spanky's nearest and dearest that his drinking was problematic?

Yes, I do.

As @Howl pointed out, there's quite a public track record which makes blatant alcohol abuse in private all the more likely, IMHO.

[Jellybean]

There's a comment by the author after the second blog post that @Howl shared:

Quote

 

[snipped by me]
RC and Laurence also have some really weird ideas of "manliness." Drinking lots of beer and whiskey is "manly." There are even certain foods that they call "man food" and certain movies that they call "man movies." If you want to be a "real man" at St. Peter you have to do certain "man things," and drinking a lot of booze is one of them. If you don't want to drink you're not a real man. So for any men who come to St. Peter who already suffer from any insecurities in their manhood they're likely to be terribly vulnerable to all the "be a man" talk. DT was one of those insecure guys. Worse yet DT came to St. Peter with a lack of self control for booze. 

DT's story reads a lot like the story of the young man you mentioned above (whose initials are MC). For MC and DT joining St. Peter was like pouring gasoline on a fire. Like DT, MC routinely drives "under the influence," RC and Laurence know it and they don't care. Little wonder. They too have been known to get behind the wheel after having had too much to drink. 

In DT's case he's had at least two DWI's since coming to St. Peter. He lost his driver's license as a result, but kept on driving anyway. Obviously that means he's also driving without insurance too. If he gets pulled over, or if he's involved in an accident, he'll be going to jail for a long time. Any number of people at St. Peter know it, and they also know that RC and Laurence know it and don't care. Why should they? DWI's are "manly" aren't they? In a real church DT's licentiousness wouldn't be condoned. Unless he repented (which he never has) he'd be under church discipline. But St. Peter isn't a real church.

[snipped by me]

 

I'm really astonished by the idea that being arrested for DUI/DWI could be seen as anything other than stupid, irresponsible, uncaring and thoughtless. It shows an utter disregard for the lives and property that are at risk every time someone gets behind the wheel after too many drinks. That doesn't come anywhere close to my definition of manly.

I'm glad that he wasn't accepted for drug court (I was afraid that the usual rules might bend in the presence of rich, white male) but I'm surprised that we haven't seen any evidence of (even just surface) contrition. As @Howl said a few posts ago, if Spanky had any sense, he would have taken himself off to rehab and sorted out the monitoring bracelet and ignition breathalyser. I can't believe that his team of lawyers didn't recommend this. As I'm sure Spanky is aware, looks matter, and from the little I can see, he is making it look as though he doesn't think this is even remotely important or serious. How much denial can any one person exhibit?!

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Jellybean said:

he is making it look as though he doesn't think this is even remotely important or serious. How much denial can any one person exhibit?!

If you've ever had direct experience with a hard core alcoholic, the ability to deny the problem is pretty close to infinite.  Plus, R.C. has been assured of a soft landing all his life. When he was "suspended" from Ligonier Ministries for a year, he was still pulling down six figures.  Even though he's been "fired", I suspect there's still an income stream from somewhere, because he can afford a cadre of high-priced lawyers.  He might very well feel as manly and invincible as ever, because all his b.s. has worked out so far.  We'll find out next week (or maybe even tomorrow) if those lawyers are worth the money.  However, if he goes to trial and the jury sees the footage of him so drunk he can't stand up with two kids in the car....

[Howl]

Spinderella Sproul is reporting that Spanky pled guilty and took a plea deal. From their page to your eyes:

Quote

Having failed to meet the legal criteria of having his criminal case accepted by the Allen County Drug Court, RC Sproul Jr appeared on June 2, 2017 in Allen County Indiana Superior Court before Judge Samuel Keirns for a pre-trial status conference. In that hearing RC Sproul Jr plead guilty to one of four criminal charges against him:

9-30-5-3(a)(2)/F6: Operating Veh. While Intox or Controlled Substance: Passenger Under 18

His three other criminal charges, two misdemeanors and one other felony, were dismissed under a plea agreement in exchange for his pleading guilty to the one felony.

He was sentenced to 1 year and 183 days incarceration. That prison sentence was suspended and he was remanded to "1 year active adult probation." 

...At the time of this publication we have no details on what the specific terms of his probation will be. As that information becomes available we'll post it as an update here.

If Spanky screws up, he's on the hook for 1 year and 183 days and possibly facing the remaining charges that were dropped when he took the plea deal.  All that money for lawyers paid off.  

RC-Lisa posted "It's a GREAT day" on FB, along with a smiling selfie. This is the day RC became a convicted felon.  Is that something to celebrate?  I guess the happy is about the plea deal being accepted. Had he gone to trial, he could have gotten a maximum of 7 years. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

If Spanky screws up, he's on the hook for 1 year and 183 days and possibly facing the remaining charges that were dropped when he took the plea deal.  All that money for lawyers paid off.  

Yes, the money spent on lawyers paid off for now. 

The challenge is going to be keeping Spanky on the straight & sober narrow for at least the next year & 183 days.

If he isn't in one already, he needs to enroll in a serious rehab program NOW, under the supervision of an experienced professional counselor who knows how to deal with addicts. Otherwise, his chances at longterm success are very slim indeed.

[Howl]

I'm guessing total alcohol abstinence will be required as a condition of probation. 

Wonder how Lisa will enjoy being with a newly sober husband -- probably the first time he'll have been dried out and alcohol free in, oh, 30 years or so.  

Another thing.  Lisa works, as far as I can tell and Spanky doesn't.  So is he the de facto house dad?  Patriarchy? Headship?  Hellooooo?

Again, with these people.  A frank accounting of their life, the struggles and insights (if there are any) dealing with change would be fascinating and even helpful.  By "these people", I'm referring to people who make their living or gain influence on the lives of others through books, blogs, preaching, sermon audios, conferences, radio shows, ministries and whatever the hell else they do.

Instead? I'm now a felon. It's a GREAT day.