Counting On Season Two - Part 2

[AshleyMadison]

Hello Everyone! I remember this site from many years ago and I'm happy to see that it's still going strong. I've watched The Duggars since the very first documentary and have so many thoughts on everything.

This Counting On show is nothing more than a loophole for the network to keep airing these people's lives. What's with the boys getting more and more screen time? I'm not sure how John David (who I am positive is on the autistic spectrum) talking about his lack of interest in women a relationship qualifies as relevant for this show's theme.  No one wants to see these creeps driving around their small town in trucks. All the girls talk about is the prospect of courting and marriage, babies, housekeeping, and more babies. It's sickening. I want cousin Amy to have an intervention with Jana and introduce her to a bad boy that buys her jeans and takes her to second base before marriage. I want him to encourage her to go to school and have a career of her own. I want her to have kids in her late 30s. Only 2.5 of them! 

Jinger's man is hot but there's something majorly wrong with him. I fear he might be the most evil of all of them. He clearly has ulterior motives and is looking for a wife that he can completely control. I guarantee he cheats on her once they are married.  So much snark, so little time! Thanks for having me

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, paulypepper said:

I think he is going with a younger girl that he can mold into being the woman of his dreams.

More to the point, a younger, emotionally immature, poorly educated girl from a patriarchal culture/religious group whom he can control and hold power over. It's the same reason creepy guys always try to get mail-order brides from Southeast Asia; they think that women from those countries, due to relative poverty and fairly patriarchal cultural practices (and fetishistic stereotypes about Asian women), will be submissive, subservient, and pliable. You'd think they'd just buy blow-up dolls off of Amazon; basically what they want, but no risk of causing trouble with Johnny Law over immigration, human trafficking, or domestic abuse. 

[Gobsmacked]

You explained that very well Nastyhobbitses.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

1 hour ago, paulypepper said:

I think he is going with a younger girl that he can mold into being the woman of his dreams.

Ding ding ding we have a winner! Turn her into that pretty, but meek and subservient preacher's wife.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 9/9/2016 at 0:38 PM, Gillyweed said:

Well, he is right. They're getting married like 6 months after "courting"

I don't see why people make such a big deal out this? I know several people, including myself, who are NOT fundie and never were who marred after a short dating period.  I married 9 moths after meeting my husband, I worked with a lady who married her husband 2 months after meeting him and they were still marred 40 years alter. It happens a lot and those relationships have just as good a chance of survival as anyone else. Not everyone wants to date for years and years before getting married. Having the same convictions and morals on family roles/size, religion, politics goes a long way. 

I'm not calling you out you are just the 7th or 8th post I've sen saying this. 

[Gillyweed]

10 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I don't see why people make such a big deal out this? I know several people, including myself, who are NOT fundie and never were who marred after a short dating period.  I married 9 moths after meeting my husband, I worked with a lady who married her husband 2 months after meeting him and they were still marred 40 years alter. It happens a lot and those relationships have just as good a chance of survival as anyone else. Not everyone wants to date for years and years before getting married. Having the same convictions and morals on family roles/size, religion, politics goes a long way. 

I'm not calling you out you are just the 7th or 8th post I've sen saying this. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with a short dating/engagement period, it's just that Jim Bob was like "You're moving too fast there" in regards to the couple touching each other. It's super ironic that touching each other is "too fast" but they don't think of their road to the alter as being fast when compared to most couples (at least that I know) who've been together at least a year before marrying. 

[Four is Enough]

15 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I don't see why people make such a big deal out this? I know several people, including myself, who are NOT fundie and never were who marred after a short dating period.  I married 9 moths after meeting my husband, 

I'm not calling you out you are just the 7th or 8th post I've sen saying this. 

Not sure, but I'm betting that the difference is that you, or your friend, or the people who have married after a relatively short time of kknowing  the spouse is different than fundy style "6 months and married" culture is that you have probably had the opportunity to meet, evaluate, get to know, possibly date, possibly sleep with more than one eligible spouse, whereas the fundies haven't. They got the "daddy selected, daddy approved" version, and went wild.

If you met, loved, married, and have remained happy with the very first eligible person you met, GREAT! I just don't think it happens for most people. That's all most people are saying, IMHO.

[Bad Wolf]

We married 4.5 months after our first meeting. Not the first relationship for either of us and we were both 27. It's worked for the last 41 years. Having said that, what worked for us might not work for other people. As for fundie courtships and marriages, I think it's too soon to tell how successful they might be, (except for Joshley) but definitely not my cup of tea.

[choralcrusader8613]

3 hours ago, AshleyMadison said:

This Counting On show is nothing more than a loophole for the network to keep airing these people's lives. What's with the boys getting more and more screen time? I'm not sure how John David (who I am positive is on the autistic spectrum) talking about his lack of interest in women a relationship qualifies as relevant for this show's theme.

 

Re bold text: Let's not go down that road. Most of us aren't therapists, and we sure as heck aren't the Duggars' therapists (thank everything haha).

[Alisamer]

I've met people who got married just a day or two after meeting who have had long, happy marriages. That said, I think there's a HUGE difference with two people who have grown up with friends outside their family, plenty of social experience, and probably a good bit of dating experience choosing to marry quickly compared to a pair of fundies (or one, in this case, since Jeremy has had some normal life experience) who have been isolated and sheltered, taught that the "world" is dangerous, that "dating" is terrible, barely allowed friends outside the family, chaperoned at every second and barely given a chance to get to know each other at all. I'd bet even most tipsy Las Vegas "hey let's get married even though we just met" couples at least have probably talked to each other privately (even if it's in a crowd), and have probably kissed or more also.

I think the criticism about them moving so quickly is less about them "moving quickly" and more about the fact that the Duggar kids really have very little life experience. If Jeremy and Jinger (or any of their couples, really) had experience with relationships, time spent alone to get to know each other, and didn't have the whole "going through Jim-Bob" situation, people would think "that's a little faster than I'd be comfortable with, but how romantic!" but instead it's "wow they barely know each other but have to get married so they can bang. Hope they have chemistry once the horniness wears off."

[AshleyMadison]

53 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Re bold text: Let's not go down that road. Most of us aren't therapists, and we sure as heck aren't the Duggars' therapists (thank everything haha).

You can go down whatever road you choose & I'll stick to calling it as I see it. Sarcastically saying a grown man with obvious social issues comes across as autistic is uncalled for? This is a snark board, correct? I don't want to argue with anyone especially since I am brand new here but I just don't appreciate being told what I can't say. Do you all take yourselves that seriously here?

[Destiny]

1 minute ago, AshleyMadison said:

You can go down whatever road you choose & I'll stick to calling it as I see it. Sarcastically saying a grown man with obvious social issues comes across as autistic is uncalled for? This is a snark board, correct? I don't want to argue with anyone especially since I am brand new here but I just don't appreciate being told what I can't say. Do you all take yourselves that seriously here?

Uh. No. it's not a rule but as many of us have said, we aren't the in touch comment section. We try to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Since you are new, I would highly recommend that you take the time to look round and see how we conduct ourselves here. 

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

More to the point, a younger, emotionally immature, poorly educated girl from a patriarchal culture/religious group whom he can control and hold power over. It's the same reason creepy guys always try to get mail-order brides from Southeast Asia; they think that women from those countries, due to relative poverty and fairly patriarchal cultural practices (and fetishistic stereotypes about Asian women), will be submissive, subservient, and pliable. You'd think they'd just buy blow-up dolls off of Amazon; basically what they want, but no risk of causing trouble with Johnny Law over immigration, human trafficking, or domestic abuse. 

This, this, this. All of it.

I think it's important to remember that all of these dudes have the option to date women who are their peers, with similar experiences, independence, and educations, but they willingly choose to be part of the Duggar-borg and marry a woman who has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old, is helpless, jobless, and uneducated. 

That is very different from Anna's situation, and is one of the reasons I have the most sympathy for her as a Duggar in-law. It's also the reason I gave the side eye to people who thought Derrick would bust Jill out of Fundie-town. 

Seriously, imagine one of your late twenty-something guy friends telling you he's dating a young woman who has never worked, has to have her father oversee the relationship, and can't do anything without a man's permission? Wouldn't you immediately start wondering about that guy's views on women?

[VelociRapture]

47 minutes ago, AshleyMadison said:

You can go down whatever road you choose & I'll stick to calling it as I see it. Sarcastically saying a grown man with obvious social issues comes across as autistic is uncalled for? This is a snark board, correct? I don't want to argue with anyone especially since I am brand new here but I just don't appreciate being told what I can't say. Do you all take yourselves that seriously here?

Firstly, welcome back (and welcome in general)! 

As @Destinymentioned, not speculating about medical conditions isn't a formal site rule - we have very few of those and the admins take adding new ones very seriously because they don't want to stifle discussion. The board culture, however, has moved away from that specific type of speculation though - so it's more of an informal, unwritten rule that posters have unofficially agreed upon. 

We also rely heavily on self-policing here too. So if you make a post that others don't agree with or that do violate actual rules (or unwritten rules), it's very likely someone will call you out on it. It happens to everyone at some point. 

I know it can be difficult to learn board culture at first. Especially since we have so few official rules and so many varying opinions about different topics. Give it a bit of time and you'll likely fit in just fine. 

[Bad Wolf]

@Velocirapture. Nicely put.

[Destiny]

@Velocirapture. Nicely put.

Cosign. I should have gone into more detail but I was making lunch. Thank you@velocirapture

[doubleT]

8 hours ago, Arix said:

It's possible that Jeremy wanted to talk to her at a certain time in a "Babe, I'm busy. I'll call you at (time), but I can't talk right now, I'm working." kind of way.

It didn't seem like this.  He seemed to be encouraging her to talk to him all the time, not caring that she was there to bond with siblings, learn survivor skills or, to draw a paycheck. 

 

6 hours ago, AshleyMadison said:

<snip>   Jinger's man is hot but there's something majorly wrong with him. I fear he might be the most evil of all of them. He clearly has ulterior motives and is looking for a wife that he can completely control. I guarantee he cheats on her once they are married.  So much snark, so little time! Thanks for having me

Jinger is his image builder.  He's getting great PR right now and she will be his perfect helpmeet and supporter.  He will probably cheat on her later, once some babies have come and she is occupied in their home.  He has seen first hand that the family puts all cheating blame on the female so he's probably not worried if he is ever caught.  I hope this isn't the case as no woman, not even Jinger, deserve such. 

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I've met people who got married just a day or two after meeting who have had long, happy marriages. That said, I think there's a HUGE difference with two people who have grown up with friends outside their family, plenty of social experience, and probably a good bit of dating experience choosing to marry quickly compared to a pair of fundies (or one, in this case, since Jeremy has had some normal life experience) who have been isolated and sheltered, taught that the "world" is dangerous, that "dating" is terrible, barely allowed friends outside the family, chaperoned at every second and barely given a chance to get to know each other at all. I'd bet even most tipsy Las Vegas "hey let's get married even though we just met" couples at least have probably talked to each other privately (even if it's in a crowd), and have probably kissed or more also.

I think the criticism about them moving so quickly is less about them "moving quickly" and more about the fact that the Duggar kids really have very little life experience. If Jeremy and Jinger (or any of their couples, really) had experience with relationships, time spent alone to get to know each other, and didn't have the whole "going through Jim-Bob" situation, people would think "that's a little faster than I'd be comfortable with, but how romantic!" but instead it's "wow they barely know each other but have to get married so they can bang. Hope they have chemistry once the horniness wears off."

For me, these fundie "quicky" marriages are problematic, because the couples involved are so heavily chaparoned for purity's sake that they never get a chance to actually know who the other person is. It seems like the underlying premise behind fundie courting is that any "godly" man should be able to have a successful marriage with a "godly" woman, as long as they stick to their gender roles. Hence, there's no point in getting to know a prospective spouse, because the only things that matter is whether they spout the right canned phrases about "having a servant's heart" or "accepting Jesus" at an absurdly young age. If something goes wrong, like with Josh and Anna, then all that needs to be done is for both parties to recommit themselves to following the fundie formula (i.e., submit more for her, be a proper headship for him), which doesn't address any underlying relational issues.

[Bad Wolf]

Did TLC give any reason as to why these kidults might need survival skills? Now that they're not traveling on the TLC dime, the scariest place they're going to go to is Walmart. And Walmart has plenty of food and camping equipment. They will be safe there.

[BeccaGrim]

So now that Jinger is all but married (any minute anyway) who is the next one?  Any guesses (I know this is pure speculation).  I can't see Jana getting married. They need her home to raise the kids and the Duggar boys are all staying single.  So Joy-Anna? 

[Alisamer]

I didn't think of it before, but there's also the fact that divorce is not a real option for any of the Duggar children... not without the chance of serious reprisal from their family and ruining their "brand".  That makes rushing into marriage an even scarier proposition for them. Most people have a way out, if things go bad, without the prospect of losing their entire support system.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

This, this, this. All of it.

I think it's important to remember that all of these dudes have the option to date women who are their peers, with similar experiences, independence, and educations, but they willingly choose to be part of the Duggar-borg and marry a woman who has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old, is helpless, jobless, and uneducated. 

That is very different from Anna's situation, and is one of the reasons I have the most sympathy for her as a Duggar in-law. It's also the reason I gave the side eye to people who thought Derrick would bust Jill out of Fundie-town. 

Seriously, imagine one of your late twenty-something guy friends telling you he's dating a young woman who has never worked, has to have her father oversee the relationship, and can't do anything without a man's permission? Wouldn't you immediately start wondering about that guy's views on women?

Yeah, while I don't want to discount the agency that women of any walk of life have, Jinger is emotionally and intellectually a teenager AT BEST. The fact that a 28-year-old dude who's cute and successful enough to have his pick of 20something women with similar life experience to him would go for essentially an uneducated cult member taught from childhood to submit to a man's authority (and had a mother who publicly all but declared that marital rape is OK) speaks volumes. 

[calimojo]

I wish I knew if Jinger's behavior on the last few shows are really how she is all the time, of if she has received some direction and strong suggestion from her producer and daddy to really play it up.  I can believe either scenario could be true.  Knowing that the ratings last season were not great,  I think they really felt the need to amp up  the 'cutesy' factor for this new courtship. 

 

Sometimes I secretly wish I worked on the show, because honestly, I would have such better stories.  Instead of making Jinger look like a stage 5 clinger,  I think it would have been more interesting showing how a couple, who have had very different upbringings go about learning of each other.  It would make great TV if we actually saw Jinger and her betrothed stand up to JB and M.  To actually use their own words against them, ( ie, we let the couple make up their own courting rules), on national TV and basically say, we are making up our own rules.  We will see each other alone,  We will hold hands and cuddle as we desire and kiss if we want to.  Not that I want to be a voyeur on watching them makeout, but I would love to have JimBob's own words thrown in his face and watch him react to that.  Jeremy has to have part of him that thinks the rules are stupid.  He is a grown man.   

 

My gut feeling isn't very good about Jeremy.  There is something  off about him.  But, honestly, I think given their narrow world, I imagine that Jessa is jealous that Jinger has a decent looking guy, with a nice body, and is actually able to work as a minister because he can successfully string 2 sentences together using fairly decent grammar.    It just makes Ben look even more like an immature kid when you see him next to Jeremy. 

 

I feel badly for Jill.  She has lost her spark.  I hope that Derick is sensitive enough to see that his wife is not happy in CA.  I don't know if Jill's issue really is related to their personal safety concerns, of if she is understandably very ill equipped to manage life as an independent adult.  Is she suffering from lack of being surrounded by the dysfunction she thrived in?  Or is she suffering truly from real or perceived dangers in her day to day life. 

 

And while some may feel her comments about having to have conversations with Derick about what to do if he were to be killed were silly, I understand her concern.  I don't think she meant that  no one dies in the US, but I think she meant that what would she do, as a relatively unworldly young woman, unable to speak the native language if her husband were killed or kidnapped.  I get that they would need to have those discussions.  They would need an exit strategy if they were threatened, or if the local political  or criminal culture took a sudden change for the worse.     Obviously Jill isn't very culturally sensitive and they are both idiots if they think what they are doing is of use to anyone.  But I do think her fear or discomfort is real for her.  Whether it is based on something she experienced or witnessed or if it just something internal for her, or a result of long hours alone with baby and a husband off the grid for long hours , who knows?  Jill isn't a good actress.  And while they belabor the point of the danger they are in,  something is different about Jill now, compared to when they left.  And while she is supposedly unable to oppose her husbands desire to return to mission work,  I hope as her headship that he is paying attention to his wife's personality change.

 

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

1 hour ago, BeccaGrim said:

So now that Jinger is all but married (any minute anyway) who is the next one?  Any guesses (I know this is pure speculation).  I can't see Jana getting married. They need her home to raise the kids and the Duggar boys are all staying single.  So Joy-Anna? 

I can see Joseph or even John-David courting/marrying a meek servant of God soon. I think Josiah is going to take a break from relationships (he might even be waiting for Marjorie to finish school so they can court again?). I don't see Joy courting for awhile and I don't see Jana courting ever....

[Chickenbutt]

The speculation that Jeremy will cheat on Jinger is a little premature (and IMO, distasteful). In fact, all the speculation on their relationship dynamic is premature. For all we know, he loves her, will treat her like a equal, encourage her to spread her wings, and support her in any thing she chooses to do. When they first announced the courtship, people began speculating about Jeremy based on a photo, announcement and social media. I think we still have no credible information to make such judgements but YMMV.