Counting On Season Two - Part 2

[nausicaa]

9 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

The speculation that Jeremy will cheat on Jinger is a little premature (and IMO, distasteful). In fact, all the speculation on their relationship dynamic is premature. For all we know, he loves her, will treat her like a equal, encourage her to spread her wings, and support her in any thing she chooses to do. When they first announced the courtship, people began speculating about Jeremy based on a photo, announcement and social media. I think we still have no credible information to make such judgements but YMMV.

Except that he follows a belief system that states that women are not equals to men, but are helpmeets.

I get what you mean about people making far fetched speculations based on little evidence. I have no idea if he's a total creep, or abusive or a philanderer. But I do think stating that their marriage is not one of equals and that Jinger's primary responsibilities will be as a wife and mother is fair, since it's an ideology both openly support.

[Chickenbutt]

You may be right that his belief system will mean he treats her as a helpmeet. But who is to say that Jinger won't be happy with that arrangement since that is all she knows?

I don't agree with their beliefs, but we (global we) want Jinger to fit into our mold of what a wife should be. Unfortunately she was born into a particular mold and she may be perfectly happy and content with the "assigned" role she has. I know we (again, global we) want so much more for Jinger and all the rest of the 2nd generation Duggars, but realistically (in my mind), they will all conform to their assigned roles and live a life much like their parents.

I don't think I am explaining myself well, but the imagined future transgressions of Jeremy just rubs me the wrong way.

[AshleyMadison]

The autistic remark was a joke! If he was truly mentally challenged I would not be commenting about it on a site like this. Wow. 

I haven't taken the time to read through the various threads here but it seems like my sense of humor is too 'distasteful' for some of you. 

I'll save my thoughts for Twitter where people don't seem to be closeted Duggar sympathizers. 

Thanks for the warm welcome! 

[calimojo]

Well, speculation is a huge part of what goes on here.  I personally don't think I have speculated he will have an affair,  but I do speculate that there is something off about him.  Part of this is because even before the scandal,  anyone, who as an adult would seek out being a part of this circus is suspect.  And, even more so since the scandals.  Why would anyone willingly associate and agree to court one of these kids?  Obviously the main reason to seek this out is for fame.  Now,  that being said,  it is entirely possible that Jeremy was trying to connect with the family for whatever fame or career seeking reason, and coincidentally he honestly fell for JInger.  She is a pretty girl and off camera, she might have much more personality than what we see now.  But, that still doesn't take away that this is a man who willingly sought out the duggars.  HE willingly  became a part of this, which includes agreeing to lie and misrepresent many many things in front of God and everyone.  Even if it is just playing fast and loose the continuum of time,  as these assholes are fond of saying, all sins are equal before God. 

 

I think Jinger and Jeremy do seem to be into each other, at least they seem physically attracted.  They seem very comfortable with affectionate touch.  That's a good thing, and I hope they have crazy sexual chemistry because they face some rough times ahead. 

 

[Chickenbutt]

@AshleyMadison My comment was not directed at you in particular. And I am far from a Duggar sympathizer.

All opinions are welcome here, just some are more well received than others.

[OrchidBlossom]

I don't think anyone is telling you what you can or cannot say... but I really don't think that mental illness is funny or an appropriate topic for a joke, and I think that it may be a prevalent feeling here, so I suppose that particular joke just isn't well received. It doesn't mean your other thoughts aren't welcome or wouldn't be appreciated, but I just fail to see how calling someone autistic is funny. 

I also don't see how some people expressing that the joke makes them uncomfortable means we are closet Duggar sympathizers. I'll snark all day about the Duggars but I won't stigmatize mental illness or disability by using that as a vehicle for my snark.

[Destiny]

6 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I don't think anyone is telling you what you can or cannot say... but I really don't think that mental illness is funny or an appropriate topic for a joke, and I think that it may be a prevalent feeling here, so I suppose that particular joke just isn't well received. It doesn't mean your other thoughts aren't welcome or wouldn't be appreciated, but I just fail to see how calling someone autistic is funny. 

I also don't see how some people expressing that the joke makes them uncomfortable means we are closet Duggar sympathizers. I'll snark all day about the Duggars but I won't stigmatize mental illness or disability by using that as a vehicle for my snark.

This. I'm the first to advocate for few rules and for community policing, but for that to work, we have to have lines. That means if someone in the community says something problematic, we call them on it per our standards. For me and many others, jokes and stigmatising mental issues are a line.

@AshleyMadison If you read our rules, you can see that members are allowed to say what they like within the rules, but saying something outside the community standards will get you called out. If you weren't allowed to say what you want, we might have hidden the post, or taken punitive action toward you. We did neither of those things. You were called out per our community standards. 

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, AshleyMadison said:

The autistic remark was a joke! If he was truly mentally challenged I would not be commenting about it on a site like this. Wow. 

I haven't taken the time to read through the various threads here but it seems like my sense of humor is too 'distasteful' for some of you. 

I'll save my thoughts for Twitter where people don't seem to be closeted Duggar sympathizers. 

Thanks for the warm welcome! 

You are more than welcome to take your comments elsewhere if you choose to do so. I'm sure there are other sites that will be more accepting of that type of comment. The Admins here try very hard not to limit speech or ban users - you have to really try hard to get them to do that. So you are more than welcome to stick around as well if you want to.

Many posters here are the furthest thing from sympathizers though (and disagreeing with your comment does not make us sympathizers by the way.) If you take the time to look around you'll see that. 

Our opposition regarding medical condition speculation is really because of basic respect - not just for the person being spoken about (because everyone - even Fundies - have a right to medical privacy), but for anyone who actually does have the condition. Many of the comments or jokes made about those conditions are rooted in negative stereotypes about the condition or those living with it. It's a line that we as a community have unofficially decided really shouldn't be crossed. It's one of the few topics most of us seem to be in agreement on.

[Arix]

46 minutes ago, AshleyMadison said:

The autistic remark was a joke! If he was truly mentally challenged I would not be commenting about it on a site like this. Wow. 

I haven't taken the time to read through the various threads here but it seems like my sense of humor is too 'distasteful' for some of you. 

I

"Haha, he must be autistic"  doesn't become less of an asshole phrase if you're joking. It actually seems worse, because instead of treating autism like a difference/disability, you're treating it like a punchline/insult.

 

 

 

(Arix is on the spectrum, go fuck yourself.)

[Timetostoplurking]

Speaking of autism.....why is using the phrase "autism spectrum" an insult???  It shouldn't be an insult.  I have a son with autism and I hear people use the word " autistic" as an insult all the time.  Makes me angry!!   He is a beautiful happy young man, nothing about him is "wrong".  I occasionally hear the word "retarded" used as an insult too.  Not funny!!!  Calling someone bipolar, schitzo, psycho, etc...isn't funny either.

OK....I'm done with my rant.....carry on!  

7 minutes ago, Arix said:

"Haha, he must be autistic"  doesn't become less of an asshole phrase if you're joking. It actually seems worse, because instead of treating autism like a difference/disability, you're treating it like a punchline/insult.

 

 

 

(Arix is on the spectrum, go fuck yourself.)

Well said!!  We were typing at the same time!!  

[nst]

1 hour ago, calimojo said:

Well, speculation is a huge part of what goes on here.  I personally don't think I have speculated he will have an affair,  but I do speculate that there is something off about him.  Part of this is because even before the scandal,  anyone, who as an adult would seek out being a part of this circus is suspect.  And, even more so since the scandals.  Why would anyone willingly associate and agree to court one of these kids?  Obviously the main reason to seek this out is for fame.  Now,  that being said,  it is entirely possible that Jeremy was trying to connect with the family for whatever fame or career seeking reason, and coincidentally he honestly fell for JInger.  She is a pretty girl and off camera, she might have much more personality than what we see now.  But, that still doesn't take away that this is a man who willingly sought out the duggars.  HE willingly  became a part of this, which includes agreeing to lie and misrepresent many many things in front of God and everyone.  Even if it is just playing fast and loose the continuum of time,  as these assholes are fond of saying, all sins are equal before God. 

 

I think Jinger and Jeremy do seem to be into each other, at least they seem physically attracted.  They seem very comfortable with affectionate touch.  That's a good thing, and I hope they have crazy sexual chemistry because they face some rough times ahead. 

 

Is it possible that Jeremy has been around the duggars before the scandals, just never thought about hooking with jinge until the other girls were married. Or that they needed her to hook up with.

[Arix]

We actually as a society seem to have a problem re: that with disabilities in general, @timetostoplurking. 

In the Legally Blonde Musical, Elle Woods says "We've got to buy this, what, are you blind?" ''Dumb' has gone from a neutral word (for unable to speak) to a synonym for stupid. 

[feministxtian]

I'm on the spectrum too...however, since I am utterly and totally twisted, I prefer to refer to myself as "fucking weird". But that is for ME to say...and close family/friends. 

If someone else wants to make unfounded speculation as to the identification and/or seriousness of my neuro/psychological oddness, they can go fuck themselves too. 

[foreign fundie]

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

This, this, this. All of it.

I think it's important to remember that all of these dudes have the option to date women who are their peers, with similar experiences, independence, and educations, but they willingly choose to be part of the Duggar-borg and marry a woman who has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old, is helpless, jobless, and uneducated. 

That is very different from Anna's situation, and is one of the reasons I have the most sympathy for her as a Duggar in-law. It's also the reason I gave the side eye to people who thought Derrick would bust Jill out of Fundie-town. 

Seriously, imagine one of your late twenty-something guy friends telling you he's dating a young woman who has never worked, has to have her father oversee the relationship, and can't do anything without a man's permission? Wouldn't you immediately start wondering about that guy's views on women?

Yes, that and about many other things too. I would wonder why he would be willing to give up his privacy. Why he would play along with his creepy father -in-law. Why he at least pretends he approves and would raise his kids the same way. How he is willing to stake a decent reputation on a scandal ridden family which have a show that make the tellie tubbies seem both academically advanced and exiting.

As much as I hope he will be a great hubbie for her, giving any adult who joins the Duggars, without being forced at gunpoint, the benefit of the doubt is kind of hard for me. 

6 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

The speculation that Jeremy will cheat on Jinger is a little premature (and IMO, distasteful). In fact, all the speculation on their relationship dynamic is premature. For all we know, he loves her, will treat her like a equal, encourage her to spread her wings, and support her in any thing she chooses to do. When they first announced the courtship, people began speculating about Jeremy based on a photo, announcement and social media. I think we still have no credible information to make such judgements but YMMV.

We don't and we won't. As long as they seem fine on camera they can either be fine or totally miserable. Not until a Joshlike scandal erupts can we say with certainty that something was wrong. The point is that they are so fake and scripted on camera that anything they say could be either true or not. Because we have no way of telling, assuming Jeremy makes her unhappy is as reasonable as assuming he makes her happy. Distrust is the price you pay for insincerity.

[nastyhobbitses]

After Derick turned out to be Hippie John Shrader instead of the I CAN SHOW YOU THE WOOOOORRRRRLLLLLD liberator for Jill everyone seemed to think he'd be, I'm going to lean towards the assumption that Jeremy is a creep and would laugh at the suggestion of treating Jinger like anything but a Roomba/microwave he can also have sex with.

[JillyO]

While I agree that claming Jeremy will cheat on Jinger is going a little too far for my taste, I fail to see a single reason why we should give these people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, they could turn around and become amazing people tomorrow and decry all the harm they have done so far and apologize to everyone they have hurt with their misguided "ministry". The could also develop wings and fly up into the clouds to visit their invisible friend up there.

Nope. Predicting that Jeremy will turn out to be a patriarchic tool who will regard Jinger as nothing but his arm-candy, meek helpmeet and broodmare is not unfair. It is par for the course until proven otherwise. IMHO of course.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

While I agree that claming Jeremy will cheat on Jinger is going a little too far for my taste, I fail to see a single reason why we should give these people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, they could turn around and become amazing people tomorrow and decry all the harm they have done so far and apologize to everyone they have hurt with their misguided "ministry". The could also develop wings and fly up into the clouds to visit their invisible friend up there.

Nope. Predicting that Jeremy will turn out to be a patriarchic tool who will regard Jinger as nothing but his arm-candy, meek helpmeet and broodmare is not unfair. It is par for the course until proven otherwise. IMHO of course.

Yup. Better to be pleasantly surprised than to be disappointed.

[Fundie Bunny]

So, today i'm so fucking stressed it was either start punching the wall or binge watching the duggars. And you guys were soooo right. Harina spurgeon is so much worse than reading it.

[lomo6]

I think what skeeves me out about Jeremy is that he is *well* into adulthood with a legitimate-ish career, and is pursuing a seemingly docile, very sheltered younger woman who is completely under the thumb of her father/family. The "physical chemistry" to me reads more like a tween crushing on a boy-band heart throb, and a slightly lecherous older guy eyeing his prey. I've had one relationship with a bigger age gap than Jeremy and Jinger, and witnessed similar age gaps amongst friends. But it's different when the woman is so sheltered and inexperienced, and the relationship is on a 3-months-to-marriage timeline.

Jill/Jessa's suitors simply did not seem to be...suppressing their dominant tendencies so much.

Ben is probably more clueless than Jessa - she clearly wears the pants in that relationship (so to speak).

Derick was a missionary dork/probable virgin. Derick is most my type out of the three of them so I don't mean this as an insult, but I doubt he had a lot of luck with the ladies during undergrad so he just kind of came off as an innocent Jesus hippie, and Jill seemed like a good match for that in theory.

 

[December]

1 hour ago, lomo6 said:

I think what skeeves me out about Jeremy is that he is *well* into adulthood with a legitimate-ish career, and is pursuing a seemingly docile, very sheltered younger woman who is completely under the thumb of her father/family.

Yeah, I agree it raises some questions when someone who has lived in the "normal world" would pursue a relationship with someone so sheltered (where the girl having that characteristic is a bonus for them). But then again, it's not exactly a secret the family is pro-patriarchy... chances are none of the kids have spent much time around people who don't have similar views, so it's quite unlikely they'd wind up dating someone with different views. 

Who knows what the real backstory is with them anyways, though, seeing as how this courtship/engagement seems just as manufactured (if not more) than the previous ones.

[sophie10130]

45 minutes ago, December said:

Who knows what the real backstory is with them anyways, though, seeing as how this courtship/engagement seems just as manufactured (if not more) than the previous ones.

This is how I feel. I think so much of it is, if not completely scripted, then manufactured.

We know they did not start courting when they said they started courting. We're pretty sure they didn't get engaged when they said they got engaged. 

I highly doubt the meeting between Jeremy and Jim Bob was honest and the first talk they had about it. Same with Jeremy asking her to court.

We see through the clothing that the timeline is being SEVERELY misconstrued.

I'm just not inclined to believe that anything they show on TV is truthful about what is going on. 

[lomo6]

I think the issue with this one is based on his age/career, it seems like Jeremy could really take Jinger out of JimBob's orbit and subject her to who knows what. Perhaps he is as sweet and loving as he pretends to be on camera, but the way he parrots DuggarSpeak makes me feel like he is just saying what he needs to say to get DimBulb to transfer his authority over Jinger to him, so that he can then do whatever he wants (which, again, could be living a Fundie Lite life in Laredo, with 5-6 kids decently spread apart). 

As effed up as JimBob's control over his adult offspring is, the expression 'the devil you know...' comes to mind. 

Both Bin and Derick just did not seem to have the financial independence and, in Ben's case, the basic common sense/maturity to exert too much dominance over their respective wives.

[mizandry]

21 minutes ago, lomo6 said:

I think the issue with this one is based on his age/career, it seems like Jeremy could really take Jinger out of JimBob's orbit and subject her to who knows what. Perhaps he is as sweet and loving as he pretends to be on camera, but the way he parrots DuggarSpeak makes me feel like he is just saying what he needs to say to get DimBulb to transfer his authority over Jinger to him, so that he can then do whatever he wants (which, again, could be living a Fundie Lite life in Laredo, with 5-6 kids decently spread apart). 

As effed up as JimBob's control over his adult offspring is, the expression 'the devil you know...' comes to mind. 

Both Bin and Derick just did not seem to have the financial independence and, in Ben's case, the basic common sense/maturity to exert too much dominance over their respective wives.

THIS. That's why I see it as fair game to be critical in the "searching for red flags" sense when it comes to these cult courtships -- the power dynamics they come pre-packaged with already set the groundwork for concern, because no person who actually WANTS an equal relationship with their partner would sign up for this shit... and if they did, they'd have to actually challenge and restructure the entire system they've subscribed to. It just makes the age gap and vastly different world experience a huge point of contention because there's no room for them to really address those things in a fundie relationship like this, imo, on top of everything else. 

Everything about the courting bullshit is designed to be in Jeremy and Jim Bob's favor, largely at Jinger's expense (she may as well live up the infatuation stage now, cause...), so long as Jeremy can mimicry the right things at the right time and be a promising figure for their TV brand. So far, I really believe that is exactly what he's doing, precisely for the reason you've mentioned. This very much feels like a transaction on his end and I don't know if it's the scripting of the show or if it's indicative of an ulterior motive, but I wouldn't be surprised if things go sour in the marriage. 

I mean, who knows? Maybe Jeremy will surprise us all and turn out to be okay. But I'm not putting my bets on it, especially when he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt by any stretch (being a man is not enough).

[MsSourPickle]

Who knows, Jimbob might be unhappy that the family won't be close enough to control the newlyweds.  Jeremy is his own man. He is very worldly, he can give Jinger a life where she has choices and can express herself.  With Jinger marrying into an Italian Family she will get the culture shock of her life but She may embrace the warm family lifestyle Italians are known for and become her own woman. Jeremy has to have many friends from Ithaca College and Syracuse University that get together' so Jeremy can help Jinger adapt to his non religious friends as well.  Perhaps Jeremy won't take kindly to Jimbob and Michelle sticking their nose in his business , especially Jimbob, after all Jeremy is a grown man with a mind of his own and he has a father he can go to if he needs advice.   I wish Jinger and Jeremy well and hope they will live a happy married life and hope Jinger spreads her wings and becomes her own person without her parents interference.

Now to discuss the Reception. I wonder if TLC will pay for Jinger and Jeremys wedding reception.  Perhaps Jeremy's parents.  A sit down luncheon or dinner would be wonderful and Italians love to drink and dance so Jimbob better get use to the Italian Familys customs . Italians sure put on great weddings where the food is plentiful, the wine flows easy and drunk Uncle Vito grabs the bride and spins her around the dance floor.  Maybe We all can assume that Jimbob will only offer to pay for ice cream floats in subzero weather under tents in Walmarts parking lot. That's JB's style.

[divadivine]

We all know Jinge loves her some coffee. The reception will be a coffee and dessert reception. Maybe biscotti, muffins, scones and cookies. Like Starbucks. Buggie Eyed Sierra needs to get her coffee urns & desserts lined up. Throw out some hay bales and fall decorations & walla ( because that's how the fundies think it's spelled) Jeremy lurves Jinge Foreva Reception. They can put that on their personalized cup sleeves.