Maxhell- Summer with the Maxwells Pt 3

[Foudeb]

12 minutes ago, Chevreuil said:

My mom used to record the stories she was reading on cassette for my brother. I mean, she still read to him every night but once she was done, she'd put on his "mommy stories." i was too old for that when she started doing it so i didnt get any (i could read already and preferred to listen to music). Once, our babysitter watched us overnight and she would not let him listen to his stories (i hid my walkman from her so was spared) and he sobbed until my mom came home.

That's genius! in my family we nearly drove our parents insane by demanding that they read the same favourite book over and over and over again. They can both still recite whole children's books by heart now, over twenty years after we all learned how to read. I'm definitely doing that when I get children of my own!

[formergothardite]

On 8/8/2016 at 5:11 PM, Palimpsest said:

I don't think the Maxwells were ever affiliated with IBLP/ATI (I could be wrong.)

I think they might have been. Their material was sold through IBLP and was heavily promoted back in the day. 

If you scroll to the bottom of this flyer about the yearly conference from 2005, you can see that Managers of Their Home was one of the recommended resources.

http://ati.iblp.org/ati/events/regionalconferences/resources/2005/catalog.pdf?show=true

I know OCC is a really shitty organization, but it seems to be the one "fun" thing this family can do each year. I think they would be lost without this glimmer of joy. 

[nastyhobbitses]

5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

This is classic Maxwell - they take themselves far too seriously and re-invent the wheel constantly.  Then they pat themselves on the back for having a brilliant idea.   A long, long, time ago I taught elementary school and the first week of school was pretty much getting organized and reviewing materials to see how much the kids had forgotten over the summer break.  That is a given and is reflected in your lesson plans.  if you start with expectations that are too high and swamp the children with new material then you are bound to be disappointed.  

Yes.  The Maxwell concept of learning is about 60 years out of date.  In their world learning should never be fun.  Your backside should be glued to a chair as you memorize dull facts or Bible quotes and spew them back.

The Maxwells are doing much better with the OCC boxes these days. Notebooks, pens, and pencils for school are highly valued in developing countries.  Cups can be useful and prized too.   Add a toy like a soccer ball with a pump, and a toothbrush, and most kids will be overjoyed.  

Did Steve delete the reference to buying expired candy for OCC at the Dollar Store when the Maxwells got called out a couple of years ago?  At least they link to OCC recommendations now and Mary got to see what other people put in boxes.  She had that wonderful trip away from home under Joseph's umbrella of protection to pack up boxes for OCC this year.

I am not keen at all on OCC, BTW.  It teaches privileged first world kids to be generous, granted, but they stuff the boxes with tracts too.  They use them to bribe families and children to their particular brand of Christianity.  I feel most sorry for the kids in some small town that don't get a box at all because they are not on some missionary's approved list.

I think it would be better to collect money to buy and send big boxes of supplies to local schools or hospitals instead, but I am strange like that.

Better yet, use the money to buy supplies and toys in-country so you actually support the local economy and save a boatload (literally) on shipping costs.

[SparkleMomma]

Just curious, does anyone have any info about why OCC isn't a good organization? We've always participated through church (and through my Christian high school about a decade ago!) and I've not ever thought to really question it much *embarrassed* I'd love to know more though!

[FloraKitty35]

In my imagination, the local NORML chapter (apparently the nearest one to Maxhell is in Kansas City, MO) is also at the fair and they are way more popular than the Maxwell clan.  

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Better yet, use the money to buy supplies and toys in-country so you actually support the local economy and save a boatload (literally) on shipping costs.

If the goods/toys are available and manufactured in that country absolutely.  If they are already imported than buying in-country might be cost prohibitive.  I was more thinking of medical goods and pharmaceuticals, which are still mostly manufactured in the Global North - so you would essentially be paying import duty twice.  With stationary, you might be able to argue that you are still supporting local businesses, but in Africa at least most goes through Dubai.  http://www.africa-business.com/features/stationery.html

One of my Medical Missionary father's most popular ideas was to have Sunday Schools work towards buying a mule, purchased in country, for a heath worker.  This was so they could visit year round in places where there were no roads - or the roads were impassible in the rainy season.  The kids loved coloring in a picture of a mule from tail to nose to show how much money they had raised.  Then they got to name the mule and got a photo of it.  

This one was called Paddington (or so it said on the back of the photo because I don't remember!):  

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, SparkleMomma said:

Just curious, does anyone have any info about why OCC isn't a good organization? We've always participated through church (and through my Christian high school about a decade ago!) and I've not ever thought to really question it much *embarrassed* I'd love to know more though!

AFAIK, OCC is not corrupt.  Opinions vary about it, and I pretty much said what my objections were above.  If I were you I would check out the tracts they include and see whether you approve of them before participating again.  

The boxes you pack are all reopened to check for things not on the approved list (toy guns, expired candy, lotions that could spill, etc) and tracts stuffed in before they are sent on.

[princessmahina]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Better yet, use the money to buy supplies and toys in-country so you actually support the local economy and save a boatload (literally) on shipping costs.

That's something that's always baffled me about the Duggar mission trips. They take HOW many suitcases stuffed with basketballs and toys to Scary America? They could save the money on the baggage and buy things down there. It would also save them having to lug that stuff around the house, onto their bus, and through the airport. 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I think they might have been. Their material was sold through IBLP and was heavily promoted back in the day. 

If you scroll to the bottom of this flyer about the yearly conference from 2005, you can see that Managers of Their Home was one of the recommended resources.

http://ati.iblp.org/ati/events/regionalconferences/resources/2005/catalog.pdf?show=true

 

That's really interesting.  I knew the Maxwells targeted ATI members for products and conferences but I wasn't aware they were officially endorsed.

There is also the product placement of the Maxwell Chore Chart on 19k+C and Jim Bob wrote a Foreword for Buying a House Debt Free.

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, SparkleMomma said:

Just curious, does anyone have any info about why OCC isn't a good organization? We've always participated through church (and through my Christian high school about a decade ago!) and I've not ever thought to really question it much *embarrassed* I'd love to know more though!

I participated in it for years without really even thinking about it!  Here are some links discussing some issues with OCC and Samaritan's Purse. For me, I don't like supporting an organization like SP because Franklin Graham is a pretty icky person and his awful beliefs are pushed by the organization. There is also the problem that OCC isn't just going to Christian children and helping them enjoy Christmas, they are targeting non-Christian children by luring them with gifts and trying to get them to reject the beliefs of their family, which I find pretty revolting. 

Just imagine if you were living in a poverty stricken country and another religion  floods your area with gifts for children, but the gifts come with the string attached that they tell your kids your sacred beliefs are wrong and then work hard to convert them away from your religion. 

http://richardseesthis.blogspot.com/2011/11/70000-gift-filled-operation-christmas.html

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/7-reasons-not-to-participate-in-operation-christmas-child-this-year-hesaid/

https://paulwilkinson.wordpress.com/tag/operation-christmas-child/

 

[Palimpsest]

16 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

There is also the problem that OCC isn't just going to Christian children and helping them enjoy Christmas, they are targeting non-Christian children by luring them with gifts and trying to get them to reject the beliefs of their family, which I find pretty revolting. 

Just imagine if you were living in a poverty stricken country and another religion  floods your area with gifts for children, but the gifts come with the string attached that they tell your kids your sacred beliefs are wrong and then work hard to convert them away from your religion. 

Yes, this.  A thousand times this.  Thanks @formergothardite for the links.

I don't know - I always dislike crapping on people's parades.  People who support OCC and the like, or Habitat, or those who have been on short term missions, tend to take it very personally.  They mostly do it with good intentions but they don't necessarily know how useless - or even destructive - it is in the long run.

I prefer to educate rather than yell at people about giving usually. 

In my donations - I mostly give to organizations I know and trust.  A small hospital for the treatment of obstetric fistulas in Africa, which is Christian but ecumenical and I personally know the trustees.  Secular clean water projects and women's entrepreneurship development projects.  Heifer International does good work too.  They are all macro not micro in their approach.

 

[formergothardite]

With the Maxwells I would almost feel bad if Steve decided OCC was evil because it really does seem to be one of the tiny bits of joy in their lives. They focus on it all year long.  

But in general, it really isn't the best idea. There could be ways to make it better, but the goal of SP doesn't seem to be doing what is best for children or respecting the cultures where the boxes go , their goal seems to be trying to convert people  no matter what. So I doubt they will ever go through the hassle of changing how they run OCC.

Plus, there is still Franklin Graham who is just as bad as Donald Trump running this whole thing. I think a lot of people don't know a lot about him and think he is like his father. 

[freejugar]

Haven't we heard the first day of homeschooling story a couple of times already?

They are really running out of material

[anachronistic]

Whenever I go to their blog I start by typing 'titus' into my search bar, and the first words,to come up are Titus 2, but the second auto fill in is Titus andromedon, a flagrantly gay, hilarious character from a Netflix sitcom. I love this.

[CyborgKin]

36 minutes ago, anachronistic said:

Whenever I go to their blog I start by typing 'titus' into my search bar, and the first words,to come up are Titus 2, but the second auto fill in is Titus andromedon, a flagrantly gay, hilarious character from a Netflix sitcom. I love this.

I need to remind myself not to type Tits2.

[RoseWilder]

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I don't know - I always dislike crapping on people's parades.  People who support OCC and the like, or Habitat, or those who have been on short term missions, tend to take it very personally.  They mostly do it with good intentions but they don't necessarily know how useless - or even destructive - it is in the long run.

What are your objections to Habitat for Humanity (I assume that was what you were referring to when you said Habitat)? 

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

What are your objections to Habitat for Humanity (I assume that was what you were referring to when you said Habitat)? 

See, I knew I'd upset someone.  

I don't object so much to HfH projects when they are kept local, although I'd frankly rather not live in a house that my SIL helped renovate because she doesn't know what the heck she is doing.  I object when people (many of whom don't know one end of a hammer from the other) travel to developing countries as a feel good project to build or do projects inefficiently.  

The money they spend on travel would be much better spent on hiring locals to do the project properly.  Also, the time and money spent supervising, feeding, and housing the volunteers is often far more than their labor is worth. IMO.  People should take a vacation instead if they want to see how the rest of the world lives, although it probably won't make them feel as virtuous and morally superior.

HfH at least doesn't see evangelism as its primary goal.  Don't get me started on the short term "mission" craze and why they are not always a good thing.  

If you look at the Miss Raquel threads (although she is an extreme example) you will see a lot of discussion about the disadvantages of short-term "missions" to cuddle orphans.  Many orphanages are now beginning to understand that a series of short-term attachments can be destructive to the children.

Again, IMO, people should not call themselves "missionaries" unless they have a real skill to offer or teach in developing countries.  Evangelizing should be a very distant second to that.  John Shrader types drive me nuts.

Sorry, I went off on a rant.  More than you asked.

[louisa05]

16 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I participated in it for years without really even thinking about it!  Here are some links discussing some issues with OCC and Samaritan's Purse. For me, I don't like supporting an organization like SP because Franklin Graham is a pretty icky person and his awful beliefs are pushed by the organization. There is also the problem that OCC isn't just going to Christian children and helping them enjoy Christmas, they are targeting non-Christian children by luring them with gifts and trying to get them to reject the beliefs of their family, which I find pretty revolting. 

Just imagine if you were living in a poverty stricken country and another religion  floods your area with gifts for children, but the gifts come with the string attached that they tell your kids your sacred beliefs are wrong and then work hard to convert them away from your religion. 

http://richardseesthis.blogspot.com/2011/11/70000-gift-filled-operation-christmas.html

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/7-reasons-not-to-participate-in-operation-christmas-child-this-year-hesaid/

https://paulwilkinson.wordpress.com/tag/operation-christmas-child/

 

I just find it so wrong to target children with evangelism of any sort. Evangelicals are so paranoid and upset at the thought of anyone challenging their belief system and even more so at their children being exposed to anyone who challenges it--hence isolation and homeschooling--yet they think it is not only fantastic and ethical but basically mandatory to do all they can to target other people's children with evangelistic activities. 

So so wrong. 

[RoseWilder]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

See, I knew I'd upset someone.  

Oh no, you didn't upset me. I just wanted to know more about your reasons. 

I agree about the missionary stuff. And the orphanage stuff - I read an article once about the negative effect missionaries have on orphanages. 

Does Habitat for Humanity build house in other countries? I don't know anything about it and I assumed they only operated in the U.S. 

[Odd1Out]

So I noticed 1 of the commenters on the Back To School post was a public school teacher another mom it seemed whose kids went to public school. Did they not get that the post was targeted to homeschoolers or someone just trying to get a rise out of the Maxwells?

 

In the photo of them around the table in the meal schedule post, do you see the decorations in the middle of the table? Have those been there before? Probably a Mary/Anna idea. But very Munck style to me. 

[Snarfblatt]

I lost all respect for OCC when I read a blogger who was happily posting about how much she enjoyed giving Christmas to the children of Senegal. I lived in Senegal. No the children of Senegal do not celebrate Christmas. You know why? Because it's a predominantly Muslim country. So you aren't giving Christmas to a child who wouldn't have it otherwise. You are trying to convert small Muslim children with gifts. They have a religion. They celebrate their religious holidays which means that they don't need ours. The small Catholic minority celebrate Christmas. 

Sorry but I have to get this off my chest periodically. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

On 8/11/2016 at 10:01 AM, kpmom said:

Or, as the lone male sibling in that family, is Drew being rewarded for becoming a command man, taking dominion over the subservient females around him?

I think it's mostly Sarah not knowing how to deal with a toddler who acts like a normal toddler instead of an automaton. I can imagine something similar happening with Christina, who seems like a feisty little kid. In the world of the Moody books (i.e. the Maxwell family), children are always perfectly well-behaved. If they complain or disagree with a sibling, they are quick to apologize and correct themselves. One of the preschool-aged Moodys even corrects her own speech impediment!

Nathan and Melanie's kids, although being raised fundie, are a lot closer to normal. Sarah probably isn't used to this.

[Jana814]

The Maxwell's have issues when kids act like kids. They think if a child is raised in a Christian household they will act differently from a child who is raised in the world. 

[SPHASH]

My church does a shoebox Christmas but it's kept local and no putting in tracts.  We fill the boxes with little toys, Christmas candy, gloves, mittens, and stocking caps.  We take the boxes to a nearby Native American reservation and hand them out at their school.  If we put any school supplies in them its usually crayons , coloring pencils, and coloring books.  We also make a big box full of school supplies for the teachers as well because they always need those.

[bertnee]

I like your version,@sphash!