Maxhell- Summer with the Maxwells Pt 3

[Jessie E]

On August 5, 2016 at 7:46 PM, bertnee said:

Did the Maxwells really white-out the lyrics to Row Row Row Your Boat?? The blog with the Maxwell summary said that, but that sounds beyond ridiculous...even for the Maxwells. 

I just started looking at the maxwells blog last week. I remember the post about whiting out the Row Your Boat lyrics. That post was pretty far back in the blog. I think it may have said something about song lyrics like that taking up room in your mind when you could be focused on more important things. I will try to find it again tomorrow for you if I get the chance. The Maxwells are a total train wreck!

[molecule]

Did we already talk about the latest Seriously article? 

Quote

 

Have you noticed how the definition of words change over time?

Adult

High

Mature

Grass

Believer

“For I am the LORD, I change not…” (Malachi 3:6)

 

Is there supposed to be a message in here somewhere?

[socalrules]

46 minutes ago, molecule said:

Did we already talk about the latest Seriously article? 

Is there supposed to be a message in here somewhere?

Well to be fair, the Maxwells have changed the meaning of "adult" to only married, male offspring who continue to live under Steve's rules. 

[delilahdog11]

On August 6, 2016 at 9:16 AM, VodouDoll said:

She did? Wow. That's really low. Did she say why?

The woman who mentored her decided to send her kids to school instead of continuing to do home schooling. 

I went back to find a quote, but there wasn't a good one to pull out. It is more of the entire tone of the article and the judgmental attitude she takes as she uses this woman's choice to demonstrate that the only right choice for a truly godly, Christian woman is to keep her chikdren's heart at home by homeschooling them. 

Teri does touch on feeling resentful that she can't be just a mommy and that she doesn't have time to herself (like her friend) when the kids go to school.  But Teri suggests that those feelings can be prayed away. It does seem like she is resentful of her friend and maybe felt betrayed by her. 

 

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

To be fair Row Row Row Your Boat does have people rowing merrily.  That sounds dangerously close to fun.  

I think he would object to life being but a dream too.  Life is not a dream.  It is just marking time until you Know Where You Will Go When You DIE!

If Steve is a guaranteed shoo-in for Heaven then I will be much happier in Hell with all my FJ friends.

Of course I don't believe in either heaven or hell ...

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I think he would object to life being but a dream too.  Life is not a dream.  It is just marking time until you Know Where You Will Go When You DIE!

If Steve is a guaranteed shoo-in for Heaven then I will be much happier in Hell with all my FJ friends.

Of course I don't believe in either heaven or hell ...

 

If there is an afterlife I'll be standing at the dispute window trying to argue myself into any circle but three.  And how is the poop circle not the worst circle?  Seriously?  Level 9 get you Satan with scaly wings ...not nearly as scary as an eternity in yuck.

Stop by and say hi if you see me.

But I'm with you, if Steve is right and he's getting in I don't think it will be a good fit for me.  Isn't Heaven supposed to be no suffering, eternal bliss, no anger, just love and peace and joy?  Or did my mom make that up?  Entirely possible.  If that's right it will be quite the culture shock for the Maxwells.

[Rhetorica]

On August 6, 2016 at 9:59 PM, WonderingInWA said:

That photo of her with Ellie screams "build me a Match.com profile!".  Poor Sarah.  Heck, even Christopher's ex (Sara Smith) ended up meeting her husband online.  She would have hated Maxhell, for sure.

Speaking of Sara Smith, do we have any idea how she and Christopher met? Sara was/is neck deep in IBLP/ATI, and although the Maxwells have a ton of similarities with ATI, there doesn't seem to be any formal association there. Were they in ATI and then left because it was too progressive for them what with young people going on service trips and all? Maybe it didn't allow their family to be insular enough???

[usmcmom]

So I guess today is Steve's birthday and Sarah has this to say about her father:

Quote

I, Sarah, want to take a minute to express my deep gratitude for a dad who always took time for us. One of my fondest memories growing up was our Sunday meetings. This was when we could share our hearts with him about anything. I firmly believe the consistent time cultivated a bond between us and Dad and kept those lines of communication open.

Really, Sarah?  You could share your hear about ANYTHING?!? What about marriage?  How did those Sunday meetings go when you shared with your father how much you'd love to be a wife and mother?  

Steve sickens me for the way he has sabotaged his daughters' lives and deprived them of the very thing they were raised to do and be. 

Crappy Birthday to you, Steve! 

[AmazonGrace]

It seems  somewhat contradictory to say he always took the time and then go on to say there was one meeting once a week when  the kids could share their thoughts.   I dunno... couldn't he have talked with them during the daily scheduled meals or something?

 

 

[molecule]

5 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

Quote

One of my fondest memories growing up was our Sunday meetings. This was when we could share our hearts with him about anything. I firmly believe the consistent time cultivated a bond between us and Dad and kept those lines of communication open.

Really, Sarah?  You could share your hear about ANYTHING?!? What about marriage?  

This strikes me as incredibly sad. While it is wonderful to be able to share about truly anything with your parent, I find it heartbreaking that this sharing is limited to one time a week. If she could share about anything whenever she needed to, she wouldn't be mentioning it as the significant part of their weekly meeting. 

While kids do need to learn self-control and it isn't a good idea to let emotions drive your actions all the time, I can't imagine having to store up a thought or feeling for days while waiting for a weekly meetin. And I keep thinking this, too: if the only time a daughter is truly able to share her heart about anything is once a week with her father, that suggests an emotional intimacy that seems a little off. If you live in a big family and the only person you can share your heart with is just one person, does that make you unhealthily attached to that one person? Does it diminish the relationships you  have with your other parent or with your siblings? And what happens when you  think about leaving home to becoming emotionally intimate with someone else who doesn't have the same experience with hearing your heart?

Furthermore, in a marriage there should be reciprocal intimacy. That is, both spouses should be able to share their hearts with each other. If the only time you could be truly open was with one person and it was one-directional (daughter sharing with father but father not sharing with daughter...I hope), then how do you even know how to reciprocate?

What a limited and lonely life that sounds to me.

 

[Howl]

On 8/2/2016 at 1:34 PM, Jessie E said:

So far they just seem like a boring hot mess to me.

Oh, please, please, please let Maxhells: Boring Hot Mess be the next thread title. 

[Palimpsest]

19 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

It seems  somewhat contradictory to say he always took the time and then go on to say there was one meeting once a week when  the kids could share their thoughts.   I dunno... couldn't he have talked with them during the daily scheduled meals or something?

 

 

Yes, indeed.  I'm sure he did.  I think what Sarah meant to say was:

"One of my fondest memories growing up was our Sunday meetings. This was the time on the schedule when we could had to share our hearts with him about anything and everything.  Our daily Family Prayer and Bible time was not sufficient for him to examine the state of our hearts properly so we needed extra dedicated time one-on-one with him on Sundays.  I firmly believe the consistent time cultivated a bond between us and Dad and kept those lines of communication open."

i think Steve was (and is) incessantly in his children's business.  I don't think he left a stone unturned in their hearts or a cobweb unswept in their minds.

Teri, whether at the height of her depression or not, has always seemed a rather detached parent.  Steve's need to be the omnipresent Patriarch probably contributed to her detachment - because he made all the decisions and administered all the discipline. 

[AmazonGrace]

49 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

i think Steve was (and is) incessantly in his children's business.  I don't think he left a stone unturned in their hearts or a cobweb unswept in their minds.

 

You tell me all that you did, felt or thought last week, and I'll tell you why it's a sin.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes, indeed.  I'm sure he did.  I think what Sarah meant to say was:

"One of my fondest memories growing up was our Sunday meetings. This was the time on the schedule when we could had to share our hearts with him about anything and everything.  Our daily Family Prayer and Bible time was not sufficient for him to examine the state of our hearts properly so we needed extra dedicated time one-on-one with him on Sundays.  I firmly believe the consistent time cultivated a bond between us and Dad and kept those lines of communication open."

i think Steve was (and is) incessantly in his children's business.  I don't think he left a stone unturned in their hearts or a cobweb unswept in their minds.

Teri, whether at the height of her depression or not, has always seemed a rather detached parent.  Steve's need to be the omnipresent Patriarch probably contributed to her detachment - because he made all the decisions and administered all the discipline. 

To the bolded - this is very interesting.  I almost wonder if it's a which came first the chicken or the egg kind of thing.  Did Teri detach because he was so controlling, or did he become so controlling because she was so detached he felt he had to commandeer the parenting.

Not excusing Steve's level of control - he's clearly off the charts.  I've just seen some families where one parent looks bossier on the surface but in reality it's due to the inability of the other parent to share the work and responsibility so to prevent neglect they do it themselves.

Instead of, I don't know, letting her get help and not forcing her to have more kids when she was struggling with the first three...and letting them go to school so perhaps Teri wouldn't have been as overwhelmed ..maybe she'd have been a better mom if she wasn't trying to meet these impossible standards.  

[Jessie E]

2 hours ago, molecule said:

This strikes me as incredibly sad. While it is wonderful to be able to share about truly anything with your parent, I find it heartbreaking that this sharing is limited to one time a week. If she could share about anything whenever she needed to, she wouldn't be mentioning it as the significant part of their weekly meeting. 

While kids do need to learn self-control and it isn't a good idea to let emotions drive your actions all the time, I can't imagine having to store up a thought or feeling for days while waiting for a weekly meetin. And I keep thinking this, too: if the only time a daughter is truly able to share her heart about anything is once a week with her father, that suggests an emotional intimacy that seems a little off. If you live in a big family and the only person you can share your heart with is just one person, does that make you unhealthily attached to that one person? Does it diminish the relationships you  have with your other parent or with your siblings? And what happens when you  think about leaving home to becoming emotionally intimate with someone else who doesn't have the same experience with hearing your heart?

Furthermore, in a marriage there should be reciprocal intimacy. That is, both spouses should be able to share their hearts with each other. If the only time you could be truly open was with one person and it was one-directional (daughter sharing with father but father not sharing with daughter...I hope), then how do you even know how to reciprocate?

What a limited and lonely life that sounds to me.

 

Question, are these once weekly meetings to share your thoughts & feelings a fundie thing? I know this is dealing with a different family, but I remember hearing about Anna Duggar and when she was still living at home her family did the same thing.  Anna had one hour one day a week to discuss whatever was on her mind with her family.

[molecule]

53 minutes ago, Jessie E said:

Question, are these once weekly meetings to share your thoughts & feelings a fundie thing? I know this is dealing with a different family, but I remember hearing about Anna Duggar and when she was still living at home her family did the same thing.  Anna had one hour one day a week to discuss whatever was on her mind with her family.

They must be a fundie thing--or they're just a Duggar and Maxwell thing. The Maxwells and Kellers are the only ones I recall mentioning this.

[sophie10130]

2 hours ago, molecule said:

They must be a fundie thing--or they're just a Duggar and Maxwell thing. The Maxwells and Kellers are the only ones I recall mentioning this.

Who only got 15 minutes? Am I making that up? I seem to remember one family said it was only 15 minutes per kid. Which is like, nothing. That doesn't even cover half of my more long-winded jokes.

[kpmom]

An hour a week devoted to each child, and only that child, honestly doesn't sound bad to me.  Especially in a large family where it would be easy to overlook a quiet child.

But only if the children were honestly able to share anything with Steve without fear of judgement or reprisal.

I don't like the fact that he continues these meetings with his adult children.  At this point they should be able to say, "Hey mom or dad, can I talk to you a minute?" if they need advice.

Having set meetings adult with children seems like forcing them to share, rather than them wanting to share.  They've earned some privacy (I know, I know, this is the Maxwells we're talking about).

[nokidsmom]

On 8/4/2016 at 7:06 AM, Eternalbluepearl said:

<snip>

They really do live in the land of odd. So much of what we see from the Maxwells wouldn't typically apply to adults, yet here they are. I swear there is a fundie food additive or something that keeps these adults in a permanent childhood.  It must be those family values we heathens don't understand. 

I remember seeing a post maybe a year or so back that depicted the single and still at home adults in the back seat with ice cream cones or something.  It was really jarring, this should be a scene from when the kids were young children not fully grown adults.  It was so weird.  I remember when my mom got nostalgic for our old family trips and insisted we take another trip in the family camper, which by now was too damned cramped for five adults versus 2 adults and 3 children.   While I always enjoyed our family trips as a child / young teenager, I just hated this particular trip, between lack of privacy and just overall being forced back into something that just didn't work anymore.    I look at Maxhell and think this is like that trip but every.single.day.  

This is not a life that full grown adults should be living, even if they are living in their parents' homes.  I don't understand how any of them can stand it.  It just doesn't work to keep your children in perpetual childhood.   It does no favors to either the parents or the kids.  Though the parents may feel better for it (feeling needed, important, and in control) it's the kids who really end up paying the price in terms of achieving true independence, following their own life's mission whatever that is, and lost opportunities.

And as far as the holding to the strict schedule aggravating Teri's depression and anxiety issues, well, if they would let go of their kids, then the demands would be a lot less.  But somehow letting go is a worse option than holding on to things that just don't work.

[Palimpsest]

8 hours ago, Rhetorica said:

Speaking of Sara Smith, do we have any idea how she and Christopher met? Sara was/is neck deep in IBLP/ATI, and although the Maxwells have a ton of similarities with ATI, there doesn't seem to be any formal association there. Were they in ATI and then left because it was too progressive for them what with young people going on service trips and all? Maybe it didn't allow their family to be insular enough???

I don't think the Maxwells were ever affiliated with IBLP/ATI (I could be wrong.)  My impression is that it was pretty much the Church of Steve from the beginning.  They did start out with quite mainstream church affiliations but Steve's desire for control and extreme sheltering gradually pushed them towards a smaller and smaller group of "the right kind of Christian" - and he has now officially started his own church.  

Steve definitely marketed their products to IBLP and Vision Forum followers. They also drew some of their conference attendees from the same sources. 

Steve Maxwell was also part of an unofficial Patriarchal Think Tank (for want of a better expression) a while ago and associated with fellow Patriarchs like Pearl.  There was a parting of the ways with Pearl at one point and I could probably find documentation if you want.  Steve decided to disapprove of Pearl's beating the pulp out of children and Pearl retaliated by attacking Steve for overly sheltering his family.

They did (and do) associate with other families occasionally who are acceptably "Christian" enough for Steve.  Sarah Smith's family may have attended a Maxwell Conference and made the cut.  Like the Muncks.

4 hours ago, Jessie E said:

Question, are these once weekly meetings to share your thoughts & feelings a fundie thing? I know this is dealing with a different family, but I remember hearing about Anna Duggar and when she was still living at home her family did the same thing.  Anna had one hour one day a week to discuss whatever was on her mind with her family.

Fundies of various stripes do share ideas and "best practices" among themselves about "managing" those mega-families.  There are a lot of conferences run by different parachurches, but also private forums, groups and lists where they talk about all this stuff.  Some members here have been involved in those and can give more information. 

The weekly meetings and the buddy system seem quite widespread to me, and it is hard to identify exactly where the ideas originated.  Above Rubies http://aboverubies.org/ also has a huge subscriptions list although we don't mention it often these days.  God, I detest Nancy Campbell.

39 minutes ago, kpmom said:

I don't like the fact that he continues these meetings with his adult children.  At this point they should be able to say, "Hey mom or dad, can I talk to you a minute?" if they need advice.

Being fair to Steve Maxwell practically kills me, but we don't "know" he continues those scheduled meetings to this day.  Sarah was talking about her memories.

I still think he is very over-involved in all their lives but he has allowed Nathan and Christopher a bit of freedom after marriage.  They actually read a science fiction book without getting Steve's permission.  Steve (or was it Teri) wrote a whole post about how they also read the book and found it dangerous!

14 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

<snip for space>

And as far as the holding to the strict schedule aggravating Teri's depression and anxiety issues, well, if they would let go of their kids, then the demands would be a lot less.  But somehow letting go is a worse option than holding on to things that just don't work.

No, no, no!  The Holy schedule cured Teri's depression!  That, OTC progesterone cream, prayer, and giving up all responsibility for decision making to the Lord  Steve.

Actually, speaking from experience, keeping to the schedule probably did help a bit with functioning during the depression.  Force yourself out of bed,  go on auto-pilot,  watch the clock or set a reminder to move to the next activity - or remind the children to move on to the next activity.

I personally don't think Teri is depressed these days, although obviously she was deeply depressed in the past.  A bit detached, introverted (which is not a character flaw), avoiding conflict at all costs, and letting others take care of things but she seems pretty functional to me.  Just overly rigid and dependent on the schedule that helped her in the past.

[Jana814]

I think I've said it before but I'll say it again. I think the reason why Steve started the nursing home church was so he can control everything. The only influence on the children would be him. Also I'm sure he felt people in a nursing home were perfect because some don't get a lot a visitors so listing to him or one of the kids would be nice for them.    

[Foudeb]

Having to set aside some time with each child means you have too many children imho. There were five of us growing up and we didn't need meetings, our parents sensed it the moment we felt off and took us aside to discuss things. My mother used to be able to sense when one of us was about to get sick too.

Weekly meetings are perfect for a work setting - not for young children at home. Just no. Just get on the pill and enjoy the kids you already have.

[silverspoons]

2 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Who only got 15 minutes? Am I making that up? I seem to remember one family said it was only 15 minutes per kid. Which is like, nothing. That doesn't even cover half of my more long-winded jokes.

A People magazine had a quote about Anna Duggar getting 15 minutes a week. I also remember the Duggar's talking about scheduling time to have talks with their kids (but not specifically 15 minutes).

A few weeks ago Wendy Williams, during her ask Wendy segments told a mom in the audience who wanted to have a good serious talk with her teenagers to take them on a long car ride and have a talk. My daughter heard that and commented that our best mom/daughter talks are in the car. It shouldn't be about all this scheduling even if you have a boatload of kids. It is usually after kids do or see something new when they are out that they have questions and want to talk and the car rides can be a perfect time.

[MamaJunebug]

7 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes, indeed.  I'm sure he did.  I think what Sarah meant to say was:

"One of my fondest memories growing up was our Sunday meetings. This was the time on the schedule when we could had to share our hearts with him about anything and everything.  Our daily Family Prayer and Bible time was not sufficient for him to examine the state of our hearts properly so we needed extra dedicated time one-on-one with him on Sundays.  I firmly believe the consistent time cultivated a bond between us and Dad and kept those lines of communication open."

i think Steve was (and is) incessantly in his children's business.  I don't think he left a stone unturned in their hearts or a cobweb unswept in their minds.

Teri, whether at the height of her depression or not, has always seemed a rather detached parent.  Steve's need to be the omnipresent Patriarch probably contributed to her detachment - because he made all the decisions and administered all the discipline. 

Yep. I bet she checked out emotionally and honestly I can't blame her. When your life is 24/7. The. Very. Same. Thing. 365. Thru. Eternity., the old man taking each of the 8 kids in for their Sunday confessional -- er, heart-sharing has to be a time of … more naps? 

[Jana814]

18 minutes ago, silverspoons said:

A People magazine had a quote about Anna Duggar getting 15 minutes a week. I also remember the Duggar's talking about scheduling time to have talks with their kids (but not specifically 15 minutes).

A few weeks ago Wendy Williams, during her ask Wendy segments told a mom in the audience who wanted to have a good serious talk with her teenagers to take them on a long car ride and have a talk. My daughter heard that and commented that our best mom/daughter talks are in the car. It shouldn't be about all this scheduling even if you have a boatload of kids. It is usually after kids do or see something new when they are out that they have questions and want to talk and the car rides can be a perfect time.

I remember the comment on her show. She has talked about this before that she & her son always talk in the car.  She has also has talked about how she & her son have a lunch date every Saturday just the two of them and have since he was a baby sometimes they even go to see a movie. This is someone who only has 1 child and struggled to have him.