Stanford swimmer convicted of rape only gets 6 months b/c it would have a severe impact on him,

[danvillebelle]

12 minutes ago, PsyD2013 said:

Brock was not as shy and innocent as he and his parents would have us to believe.  

Exactly; to me, this confirms my suspicions.  He had been looking for the opportunity to do what he did for a LONG time, he just finally took that last plunge into the abyss and did it.  How much you want to bet that some young woman/women he went to high school with pops up with a similar story to the victim's sister?  

[PsyD2013]

Brock Turner's grandparents also wrote a letter.  They are appalled that Brock is the only one being held accountable.  Newsflash, Grandpa and Grandma your precious grandson is the only one who raped a woman behind a dumpster.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/brock-turners-grandparents-complain-hes-the-only-person-being-held-accountable/

[myhobby]

The mom's letter has pushed me over the edge of rage.  I spent virtually my entire college career alone with boys, and none of them ever raped me, because normal boys don't rape the women they're around.  Even when one or more parties is drunk.   So thanks guys for not raping me when I was stoned out my mind on your couch!  Apparently that was a really big feat.   

[NeverQuivered]

1 hour ago, danvillebelle said:

Exactly; to me, this confirms my suspicions.  He had been looking for the opportunity to do what he did for a LONG time, he just finally took that last plunge into the abyss and did it.  How much you want to bet that some young woman/women he went to high school with pops up with a similar story to the victim's sister?  

I was thinking the same thing. We will probably hear something from the girls he went to high school with at some point and it will show the escalation to rape. Creepy behavior, inappropriate touching, etc. 

this story isn't going away. If he gets out in 90 days, he will be released into a media shitstorm. 

[samira_catlover]

AAAAAnd yet another rape apologist---this one's an ex-girlfriend.  Full text of letter is within the link.

And, like the mother and grandparents of Brock Allen Turner, the Stanford Dumpster Rapist, she doesn't even bother to mention anything about the victim's pain.

Spoiler

The fact I am even writing this letter is something I never saw coming, or could ever imagine, this in itself I believe to speak numbers. You would think a close friendship of 8 years could predict something like this happening, but the type of person Brock is could never deserve this or do anything he has been convicted of in a thousand of his lives. I have never been so angry with God in all of my life, for instilling such pain on such an undeserving soul. I will forever wish the memory of having to write this goes away, I pray everyday for only the best for my dear friend and I live every day in fear of June 2nd, 2016, for the best guy I have ever gotten to know may be taken away from me.

Spoiler

SHE'S angry with God???!!???

[RoseWilder]

Wow, aside from being repulsive, that letter is badly written. The person who wrote that can barely string a coherent sentence together. 

The people who are defending Brock Turner the rapist need to go read a book about sociopaths. They are charming. They come across as being the perfect person who would never do anything to hurt anyone. That's why they're so dangerous. 

[EyeQueue]

I've been posting all of these new developments to my FB recently, and one of my FB friends raised the issue that it's not his parents' or grandparents' fault that he did what he did, and that we can't necessarily blame them for how he turned out.

Which is, to a certain extent, a fair point. I know that if my daughter did something along these lines (or something criminal to another human being), I would try to be as supportive as I could.

However, I think there's one difference that I would note. I would express my disappointment of her actions, and would express empathy/sympathy/remorse to the victim.

In all of these statements coming out by his family and friends, nowhere do they say *anything* about how sorry they are for the survivor, nor do they express any level of empathy whatsoever.

To me, that's pretty fucking telling. Where is their empathy for this other human being whose life is now destroyed?

36 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

The people who are defending Brock Turner the rapist need to go read a book about sociopaths. They are charming. They come across as being the perfect person who would never do anything to hurt anyone. That's why they're so dangerous. 

That's what I said upthread, although I didn't want to commit and call him a sociopath. Those are also traits of narcissists, which I would be ready to commit to, given everything that has now come out. It seems like Brock Turner the Stanford Dumpster Rapist has always been raised to think that he's a special snowflake around whom the world revolves.

[Chowder Head]

medium.com/@susan.speer/stop-making-everything-perfect-for-your-kid-bfba8ccc70a7#.7jp45r2u7

It's a good blog on not making everythign for our kids perfect. How some never say no. Which is an interesting read while thinking about this case.

[EyeQueue]

7 minutes ago, Chowder Head said:

It's a good blog on not making everythign for our kids perfect. How some never say no. Which is an interesting read while thinking about this case.

Word.

You think helicopter parenting is bad? Welcome to lawnmower parenting, where these parents mow down any and all obstacles in their kids' paths, so they never have to learn to get along with others, or manage frustration and disappointment.

It's doing a huge disservice to these kids who end up not being able to function in the real world. I get plenty of them that come into my uni classes and who completely lose it when things don't go their way.

It's one trend that needs to stop now.

ETA: And in relation to that article's mention of "that one Mom in the neighborhood": Most of the parents in my area are That Moms and That Dads. More so than not. It gets really frustrating.

Edited June 11, 2016 by EyeQueue

[MatthewDuggar]

1 hour ago, Chowder Head said:

medium.com/@susan.speer/stop-making-everything-perfect-for-your-kid-bfba8ccc70a7#.7jp45r2u7

It's a good blog on not making everythign for our kids perfect. How some never say no. Which is an interesting read while thinking about this case.

Thank you for this.  I once had a coworker who had a son who was on the honor roll with straight As and became the youngest Eagle Scout in the district.  With only a paper thin cubicle wall between myself an her, I learned very quickly who actually earned the good grades and the scout accolade.  Granted, she brought her son to the office quite a bit and he was always very well mannered and very friendly, I often wondered how he was going to turn out in the "real world" without mom.

[JesusCampSongs]

12 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Exactly; to me, this confirms my suspicions.  He had been looking for the opportunity to do what he did for a LONG time, he just finally took that last plunge into the abyss and did it.  How much you want to bet that some young woman/women he went to high school with pops up with a similar story to the victim's sister?  

Based on everything that's come out---if this is the first time he's raped someone, I'll cheerfully attend the next revival my dad's church hosts. There's just no way he hasn't done something like this before.

[Mercer]

I agree that no one is at fault for Brock's crime except Brock. He was one making decisions that night - not his parents - and it was his decision to commit rape. 

Did his parents contribute to the mindset that made him do it, though? Absolutely! It's pretty clear from their response to the situation that they completely failed to teach him appropriate boundaries and personal responsibility, and gave him a sense of entitlement that anything he wants (including a woman's sexuality) belongs to him. They are at fault for raising a man who lacked the basic human decency to not rape.

Brock is a grown adult, though. He is responsible for his own actions. You can't blame the wrong you do on Mommy and Daddy forever. The fact that his parents failed him is a legitimate wrong too, but it doesn't make him any less culpable for his decision to rape a woman.

[PsyD2013]

John Pavlovitz, a pastor  from North Carolina has responded to this to Brock's father's letter.  http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/08/us/pastor-letter-father-brock-turner-rape-stanford/index.html

"I understand you trying to humanize your son in your letter talking to the judge about his favorite snacks and swim practice," said Pavlovitz, referring to Dan Turner's note, a gesture that may be directly linked to the six-month sentence that is perceived by many to be far too lenient. "There is no scenario where your son should be the sympathetic figure here. He is the assailant, the rapist. I can't imagine how gut-wrenching that reality, but it is true."

Wednesday's interview concluded with Banfield asking Pavlovitz to share how he might counsel Turner were he asked to do so.

"You have to show other men where you went wrong," the pastor offered. "You have to show them that women matter and that the victims of sexual assault need to be the ones who receive the encouragement and the support and they need the wholeness."

 

[AuntK]

All of this has me raging, the sentence, the judge, the parents, but the mother's letter is just unbelievable! Nothing about the victim, instead she talks about everything from her "boy" in his 6th grade musical to her own depressed state which is preventing her from hanging pictures on the walls of her new home! I. Can't. Even. And then to whine about how her rapist son will never have a Stanford degree, go to medical school, or become an orthopedic surgeon, just leaves me stunned. (As if anyone wants a registered sex offender as their doctor!) I will show her as much sympathy as she and her husband have shown the victim. I don't know why these people are so clueless, but they need to acknowledge that their son is a rapist, and there are NO excuses for his barbaric, disgusting and cowardly behavior. They obviously didn't know their son as well as they thought!

[mstee]

Well I just saw that where he grew up is not too far from me. This whole "I'm from a small town, judge, where we don't party with alcohol" line from the rapist is laughable. He is from a suburb that is 10 minutes outside of Dayton. Even the people I knew who literally grew up in a bubble (think farming community with nothing for miles on end) had the opportunity to party. People like to drink in Ohio! Obviously, this has nothing to do with the rape seeing as alcohol doesn't turn you into a rapist. But I just wanted to point out that he is not from some small town in the middle of nowhere that doesn't have teenagers consuming alcohol. And the fact that the judge took that into consideration for his sentencing is a joke. 

[CrazyMumma]

I have one question... why aren't everyone who wrote letters to the judge being charged with trying to pervert the course of justice?  How is this not criminal?

[samira_catlover]

OK, gonna be kinda contrarian (again!).

We've all probably seen the pre-sentencing letters from poor widdle Brock Allen Turner, the "Stanford Dumpster Rapist", a multi-count felony-convicted sex offender, and those from his kinfolk who are oh-so-weepy-about-the-awful-impact-upon-HIM, but they don't seem to really get that his actions seriously hurt others---(you know, felony sex assault with intent to rape kinda tends to get you assigned to Tier Three as a violent sex offender)--plus other consequences.

We've all probably seen the stunning victim impact statement (GIRL! YOUR COURAGE ROCKS! ) and the responses thereto. (Links NOT provided, because I'm tired, and look upthread or on Google.)

 

I challenge FJ readers: take on the role of the mother, father, grandparents, friends, or even that of the Gods-Be-Damned felony sex offender.....

You have a Dearly Loved One who is Majorly Deep in the Doo-Doo. There is absolutely no factual question concerning zis (gender-neutral pronoun deliberately chosen) role in engaging in felony sex assault of an Impaired Person.  But you want to write a statement begging indulgence, pity, compassion, leeway, mercy, or whatever, in the hopes it will affect sentencing.

What would you honestly say while begging mercy, but still acknowledging the evil criminal actions that were done?

(And if you respond to this challenge, it might be wise to indicate it's a modified thought experiment.)

I'd really like to see alternative takes on "I wuz not a good boy, but just inexperienced and all naive on the Big Campus" versus "it wuz da BOOZE and campus promiscuity that made me do it!" versus "I screwed up, BIGTIME, and I accept the consequences of my wrongdoing".

  

 

[EyeQueue]

2 hours ago, samira_catlover said:

What would you honestly say while begging mercy, but still acknowledging the evil criminal actions that were done?

I honestly don't know, but I'm pretty damned sure it would include something about how horrible I feel for the victim/survivor, and how disappointed I am in my kid.

At the very least how horrible I feel for the victim.

That is glaringly absent from any of the statements issued by his family and friends.

And if I were him, I would start with: I know that no amount of apologies can make up for what I did for you, but I am genuinely sorry for the pain I have caused you and your family, and will accept any and all consequences for my actions.

And I get from the survivor's impact statement that *had he just said something like that from the get*, she would have made an argument for leniency. Had he just fucking admitted it and not put her through a year of being re-victimized, I and others could probably have some shred of compassion for him.

[caszandra]

2 hours ago, samira_catlover said:

I challenge FJ readers: take on the role of the mother, father, grandparents, friends, or even that of the Gods-Be-Damned felony sex offender.....

I am a mother to a 21yr old man and if God forbid my son ever done anything like this I would not in a million years respond in the way Brock Turner Stanford Dumpster Rapists family has.

I would still love and support my son but I am not a mother who thinks her children can do no wrong, I would be doing my job of raising them badly if I did not teach them that actions have consequences.

 If my son was as guilty as Brock Turner you can bet your behind I would be writing a heartfelt apology to the victim and I would ask the Judge to give my son a sentence that fit the crime and a plea to get him some help so he would never do anything like that again. I would also spend time in introspection looking at how I raised my son and what if anything I could have done differently.

Mr and Mrs Turner, you are a disgrace to decent parents everywhere and you have done and continue to do your son no favours with your attitude that he is a delicate little flower who can do no wrong, you make me sick!

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, CrazyMumma said:

I have one question... why aren't everyone who wrote letters to the judge being charged with trying to pervert the course of justice?  How is this not criminal?

Not a Degreed Law Professional over here by any means, but I believe those people were writing "character statement" type letters for the defense attorneys. My understanding is its common practice in cases in certain states and they are then read in court or privately by the judge. Same for the victim's/victim''s family's letter on the prosecution's side. I don't think anything was secretly mailed to the judge.

I know someone who was charged with a crime (something boring and business-y, not rape, thank God) and during his trial his defense attorney asked several of his friends with higher up government positions to write character statements about him, as well as asking his wife and a childhood friend to do the same. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by nausicaa

[polecat]

6 hours ago, samira_catlover said:

*snipped for space*

I challenge FJ readers: take on the role of the mother, father, grandparents, friends, or even that of the Gods-Be-Damned felony sex offender.....

You have a Dearly Loved One who is Majorly Deep in the Doo-Doo. There is absolutely no factual question concerning zis (gender-neutral pronoun deliberately chosen) role in engaging in felony sex assault of an Impaired Person.  But you want to write a statement begging indulgence, pity, compassion, leeway, mercy, or whatever, in the hopes it will affect sentencing.

What would you honestly say while begging mercy, but still acknowledging the evil criminal actions that were done?

(And if you respond to this challenge, it might be wise to indicate it's a modified thought experiment.)

4

"Our hearts go out to the victim. We cannot imagine her pain or the amount of courage it took for her to come forward. As a mother, I especially ache at the thought that this young woman was hurt and scared when she should have been cared for. That devastates me, and I don't have words for how sorry I am that this happened at the hands of my son.

"I love my son. I will always love him. As much as I would like to characterize this as a terrible mistake, it was so much more than that. It was a devastating act that will have repercussions on this young woman for life. She did nothing to deserve that. 

"My son knows his actions were wrong. He privately and publicly acknowledges the pain his choices have brought on another person. We hope for mercy from the court, and we pray that some day his victim will be able to forgive him and us. But having said that, he and we are prepared to accept the sentence the court determines is appropriate." 

We've been teaching our sons consent since they were toddlers ("Can mama have a kiss?" "Is it okay if mom gives you a hug before bed?" and things like that.) I'd like to think that this is not something we will ever face. I have raised my sons to know that they have rights to their own bodies, and that other people have the right to theirs. I have not raised them with entitled attitudes, nor have I ever sheltered them from the consequences of their actions. If we ever face this situation (and I hope and pray that we do not), I will love my son and stand beside him the whole way through it. But I will not throw the victim under the bus, ignore her pain or blame her. Nor will I allow him to do it. I will expect him to acknowledge his actions -- in fact, I hope that he would plead guilty and spare her the pain of a trial. 

 

[sparkles]

9 hours ago, samira_catlover said:

<snip>I challenge FJ readers: take on the role of the mother, father, grandparents, friends, or even that of the Gods-Be-Damned felony sex offender.....

You have a Dearly Loved One who is Majorly Deep in the Doo-Doo. There is absolutely no factual question concerning zis (gender-neutral pronoun deliberately chosen) role in engaging in felony sex assault of an Impaired Person.  But you want to write a statement begging indulgence, pity, compassion, leeway, mercy, or whatever, in the hopes it will affect sentencing.

What would you honestly say while begging mercy, but still acknowledging the evil criminal actions that were done?

(And if you respond to this challenge, it might be wise to indicate it's a modified thought experiment.)

I'd really like to see alternative takes on "I wuz not a good boy, but just inexperienced and all naive on the Big Campus" versus "it wuz da BOOZE and campus promiscuity that made me do it!" versus "I screwed up, BIGTIME, and I accept the consequences of my wrongdoing".<snip>

  

 

This is a link to a letter written by Anne Marie Hocholter, one of the Columbine survivors, to Sue Klebold, mother of Dylan, in response to a letter she (Anne) received from Sue (also posted.) Granted, Dylan Klebold was dead so his mother's letter had no impact on his future but it's a textbook example of how to address what your child has done and acknowledge the pain he caused. It still moves me to tears. The Turners would have done well to have used it as an example instead of crying how their son couldn't enjoy a steak or his mother couldn't decorate the house. Victim? What victim?

 

[VelociRapture]

On June 11, 2016 at 11:18 PM, PsyD2013 said:

John Pavlovitz, a pastor  from North Carolina has responded to this to Brock's father's letter.  http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/08/us/pastor-letter-father-brock-turner-rape-stanford/index.html

"I understand you trying to humanize your son in your letter talking to the judge about his favorite snacks and swim practice," said Pavlovitz, referring to Dan Turner's note, a gesture that may be directly linked to the six-month sentence that is perceived by many to be far too lenient. "There is no scenario where your son should be the sympathetic figure here. He is the assailant, the rapist. I can't imagine how gut-wrenching that reality, but it is true."

Wednesday's interview concluded with Banfield asking Pavlovitz to share how he might counsel Turner were he asked to do so.

"You have to show other men where you went wrong," the pastor offered. "You have to show them that women matter and that the victims of sexual assault need to be the ones who receive the encouragement and the support and they need the wholeness."

 

I read this the other day, but didn't realize the author was a Pastor. We need more Pavlovitzs in the world and less clergy who use and abuse their office for personal gain.

 

On June 13, 2016 at 9:31 AM, nausicaa said:

Not a Degreed Law Professional over here by any means, but I believe those people were writing "character statement" type letters for the defense attorneys. My understanding is its common practice in cases in certain states and they are then read in court or privately by the judge. Same for the victim's/victim''s family's letter on the prosecution's side. I don't think anything was secretly mailed to the judge.

I know someone who was charged with a crime (something boring and business-y, not rape, thank God) and during his trial his defense attorney asked several of his friends with higher up government positions to write character statements about him, as well as asking his wife and a childhood friend to do the same. 

That's exactly what they were doing. It's perfectly legal and happens often during sentencing. While the content is extremely objectionable, I see nothing wrong with them actually submitting a statement.

I wrote one once for a young man facing a disciplinary hearing at his university, for something he was falsely accused of (not charges were filed and he was not arrested for anything.)  The school didn't bother reading any of them (he got a ton), didn't bother following their own hearing procedures properly, and made him feel so unsafe that he withdrew. They're now facing a lawsuit from this young man and his family for the shit way he was treated, so my statement will likely be entered as evidence and I may be called to testify on his behalf - which I would gladly do.

[RoseWilder]

Good, I'm glad to see this judge isn't going to have a second chance to enable a sexual predator: 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/14/prosecutor-bumps-stanford-sex-assault-judge/85898742/

[Grimalkin]

     @samira_catlover, I think I would be glad my son got only six months in a county jail as opposed to prison. I would be freaking grateful for it.

      This is a competitive sports parent. Not your average parent. Every great accomplishment  thier son has made has been more about them than thier kid. Look at me, look how great I am, my son is an elite athlete. They are ashamed thier son was so publicly punished, not that he raped a girl. They likely coverd up and downplayed his shit for years because it would be an embarrassment to them to admit thier son is not this great person after all these years. 

       I know this because my kids play competitive soccer and I have sat on the sideline and listened to so much crap over the years. To add to that my husband is a coach who has produced athletes that get scholarships. The lengths parents will go to to have thier kid play on the top team is insane. I can tell you some shocking,horrifying, hilarious, and creepy stories. I don't talk about it in real life because I don't think people would be love me it sounds so crazy. He jokes with other coaches that one day they want to just coach orphans. The parents ruin it for everyone. Always.