Counting On (everyone being civil in...) - part 2

[Casserole]

My father's annoying rationale was always, "if I drive off the bridge the seatbelt is going to cause me to drown." okay, so unbuckle it for the 3 minutes we're on the bridge if you're really concerned. Then he got a new truck that beeped until you buckled in and he would buckle it behind him. Eventually he caved and could no longer outsmart technology because he wears it now. 

 

He also refuses to get an EZ pass because he insists the government will track him and calculate his time between tolls and mail him a speeding ticket. He's precious... and a source of my anxiety.

[quiverofdoubt]

48 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Daughter was born in 1978. The nurse told me I should hold her on the way home!!! We drove into the parking lot and got her in the car seat. In1982 when son was born, they wouldn't let us leave without a car seat. They weren't as safe as they are now, and the rules about forward or rear facing were different. We did our best with the knowledge we had then.

We can only do the best we can with the information and technology available. You did the best with what was available.   What bugs me is the people who rally against the current research, recommendations and laws. They argue it was fine 20 years ago, or for their first child, so why shouldn't it be fine now? Because we know better, technology has improved, etc. 

20 minutes ago, Casserole said:

My father's annoying rationale was always, "if I drive off the bridge the seatbelt is going to cause me to drown." okay, so unbuckle it for the 3 minutes we're on the bridge if you're really concerned. Then he got a new truck that beeped until you buckled in and he would buckle it behind him. Eventually he caved and could no longer outsmart technology because he wears it now. 

 

He also refuses to get an EZ pass because he insists the government will track him and calculate his time between tolls and mail him a speeding ticket. He's precious... and a source of my anxiety.

Sounds a bit like my dad. He hates wearing his belt, refuses to do so all the time. He's learned to tune out that obnoxious beeping. And brags about how many speeding tickets he's had and fought.  I make him wear a belt in my car at least, because anyone in a vehicle unbelted/secured is a giant 100-200+ lb projectile. 

[Maggie Mae]

6 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

  What bugs me is the people who rally against the current research, recommendations and laws.

I think it's fair to question the research.* Question where it comes from - is it research that was paid for and directed by car seat companies? Who paid for it? Do they have a goal to sell more car seats or plastic or car seat components? Because, at first glance, the recommendations appear to make it very easy for car seat companies to sell more car seats. Who benefits from creating laws to use car seats? (hopefully kids, but does anyone else benefit? insurance companies/car seat manufacturers?) Does the research actually say that every child needs three new, never before used car seats? Does the benefit of car seats and boosters negatively affect the quality of life for people? Etc. Do the pros (living children) outweigh the cons (convenience, expense, kids that aren't strapped down for the first 10 years of their life?) 

 

*I am not saying don't use a car seat. Use a car seat. 

[EmmieJ]

6 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Where is the line? Should all mothers just locked at home in the suburbs with their baby for "safety?" People have traveled with babies for as long as there have been babies. 

I was breastfed until I was 3. Can't stand my mom for more than a few hours at a time. Never had any sort of meaningful conversation. She asks me about my life, I tell her the surface stuff. If I bring up feelings she gets upset and shuts down. PRETTY SURE its because I was breastfed too long, right? Or maybe infant nutrition has nothing to do with bonding?

I would say that being held close and lovingly, either while being fed or not, and having your infant needs met promptly, would encourage bonding.  I don't think it matters whether the baby is being bottle or breast fed.

[BunnyBee]

Honestly I can't wait to snark with yall on Counting On, in less than an hour..... 

I know the Duggars being on TV is wrong for XYZ reasons but the people on FJ and their snarky comments are so damn funny, I just can't help but be excited. 

[Gimme a Free RV]

3 hours ago, cloudycat said:

 My fur babies ride in carriers that I strap to the seat...

Same here!  I took a defensive driving course one time where the cop told the class that loose pets inside a car are dangerous projectiles if you have to slam on the brakes.  He also told us some extremely sad and gross stuff he'd personally witnessed in the aftermath of a fatal accident with a dog in the car.

 

[anotherone]

33 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

We can only do the best we can with the information and technology available. You did the best with what was available.  

 

Also there's plenty more anyone could do to be safe, but let's face it, almost everyone feels it's just too inconvenient. Before I hear the protests that you would do ANYthing to keep your child safe! here are some examples.  1. you could have the best car seats in the world and superglue your kids into them, but if there was a confrontation between you and a semi, the semi would win.  So it is much safer to avoid driving as much as possible - keep the kids at home when you go grocery shopping, hire a babysitter if no one can watch them, have grandma come over every time instead of driving to her house, buy a smaller house closer to school so the kids can walk the 12 years of elem and HS,  etc.  But it's too inconvenient for most people.  2.  Many school buses still don't have seatbelts, and if enough people protested that would change.  But not enough people protest, too much trouble.  3.  We all know the back seat is safer because the airbags in the front are made for an average 165 lb. man.  So that means all women should ride in the back.  When your husband drives, if you want to raise the chances your kids don't go motherless (like what people said about Jessa going to SA or wherever) then every time it's just you and your husband, you sit in the back seat.  4. Do not ever drive in the rain or snow. Ever.  Espeically with the kids ETc. etc.  the list can go on and on. 

It's dangerous to think car seats are the be-all and end-all of safety. 

[Coconut Flan]

Please use the following thread to discuss the new episodes:

 

[nst]

spud's birth is on 

 

[quiverofdoubt]

8 minutes ago, anotherone said:

Also there's plenty more anyone could do to be safe, but let's face it, almost everyone feels it's just too inconvenient. Before I hear the protests that you would do ANYthing to keep your child safe! here are some examples.  1. you could have the best car seats in the world and superglue your kids into them, but if there was a confrontation between you and a semi, the semi would win.  So it is much safer to avoid driving as much as possible - keep the kids at home when you go grocery shopping, hire a babysitter if no one can watch them, have grandma come over every time instead of driving to her house, buy a smaller house closer to school so the kids can walk the 12 years of elem and HS,  etc.  But it's too inconvenient for most people.  2.  Many school buses still don't have seatbelts, and if enough people protested that would change.  But not enough people protest, too much trouble.  3.  We all know the back seat is safer because the airbags in the front are made for an average 165 lb. man.  So that means all women should ride in the back.  When your husband drives, if you want to raise the chances your kids don't go motherless (like what people said about Jessa going to SA or wherever) then every time it's just you and your husband, you sit in the back seat.  4. Do not ever drive in the rain or snow. Ever.  Espeically with the kids ETc. etc.  the list can go on and on. 

It's dangerous to think car seats are the be-all and end-all of safety. 

I was actually letting badwolf know that i wasn't judging past generations for not using modern car seat standards.  I don't think car seats are the end all be all of safety- and the best thing i can do is be a safe driver, with a safe car.  Which is what i do. I'm not saying i make her 100% safe 100% of the time, that's impossible. I refuse to bubble wrap her.  We do have to live our lives and go about regular business.  I never said i'd do ANYTHING to make her safe, regardless. Just that we do the best we can under the circumstances we are given.  Which includes using a modern carseat (not one from say, 1996, which i've seen people try to do, or none at all, which i still see people do). And doing your best to make sure the install is right and the child is secured right.  Yes, it would be safer not to drive at all.   Not having children at all is safest, seeing as i almost died postpartum due to post pregnancy hormones.

[O Latin]

I don't think "we didn't have them in my day and we were fine" is a good argument against car seats, but the ever changing technology and guidelines are probably a big reason why people are ill informed and use them incorrectly. Proper car seat use probably isn't something most people really think that much about until they have a baby and a lot of people probably ask advice from their parents, who will only remember what the guidelines were 20+ years ago when they had kids in car seats. I bet there are a lot of people who mean well and are truly concerned for their child's safety, but just have the wrong information (and this probably applies to a lot of things, not just car seats).

[Bad Wolf]

I bought the first car seat for my grandson, based on DIL's extensive research. He's not quite 3, and still rear facing, though a different car seat. You can teach an old grandma new tricks. 

[anotherone]

24 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

 I don't think car seats are the end all be all of safety- and the best thing i can do is be a safe driver, with a safe car.  Which is what i do. I'm not saying i make her 100% safe 100% of the time, that's impossible. I refuse to bubble wrap her.  We do have to live our lives and go about regular business.  I never said i'd do ANYTHING to make her safe, regardless. ...

   Not having children at all is safest, seeing as i almost died postpartum due to post pregnancy hormones.

Oh, sorry,  I certainly didn't mean you personally, when I said "you," just general people.  And I was exaggerating to make a point (sometimes not clear in text).  I take the kids many places, I don't bubble wrap them either I take calculated risks too, I just see people sometimes getting so wrapped up in the car seat thing they forget there are other methods of safety if they really want to go all out.  

BTW, very interesting point, just giving birth is inherently dangerous.  Many of us are willing to take that risk

[quiverofdoubt]

4 minutes ago, anotherone said:

Oh, sorry,  I certainly didn't mean you personally, when I said "you," just general people.  And I was exaggerating to make a point (sometimes not clear in text).  I take the kids many places, I don't bubble wrap them either I take calculated risks too, I just see people sometimes getting so wrapped up in the car seat thing they forget there are other methods of safety if they really want to go all out.  

BTW, very interesting point, just giving birth is inherently dangerous.  Many of us are willing to take that risk

And i'm taking that risk again. though this time with more precautions.  raise your hand if you knew women are at a much higher risk of blood clots postpartum, and during pregnancy! or that living at high altitude compounds that risk. Seriously, i had zero previous health issues going into pregnancy, was healthy, young, no complications.... and bam....almost died. 

 I think i'm just touchy about this right now: there are twin girls, maybe 3 years old? in my daughter's dance and gymnastics class. can't be much bigger than my daughter, maybe, maybe, 41" tall? 30 odd pounds (guessing after seeing them next to my kid).  Every time dad picks them up or drops them off, it's in the back of his sedan. No seats whatsoever. NOTHING. no booster or anything. and they are always bent double, stretching out the seat belts.  I didn't say anything the last two times i saw them, because i'm super non confrontational.  And they don't have dance for 2 weeks now. And i feel like i should have said something. It's not only dangerous, but illegal. and now it's eating me up. Not my kid, not my choice. But i'd feel really bad if something happened to them.

[QuiverDance]

Totes watching, martini in hand. Gonna take a sip every time they say "walk through."

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Casserole said:

My father's annoying rationale was always, "if I drive off the bridge the seatbelt is going to cause me to drown." okay, so unbuckle it for the 3 minutes we're on the bridge if you're really concerned. Then he got a new truck that beeped until you buckled in and he would buckle it behind him. Eventually he caved and could no longer outsmart technology because he wears it now. 

I know it's your dad not you, but for the record a seatbelt actually has a good chance of keeping you safer even if your vehicle goes into water because it means you're more likely to stay conscious due to not hitting the windshield or getting thrown around in the car. If you're still conscious and alert, you at least have a chance to equalize the pressure and escape the car before you run out of air. If you hit your head and you're out cold, it doesn't really matter that you're free of your seatbelt because you aren't able to get yourself out of the car. (ETA: Same thing applies to a burning vehicle, for the same reason.)

Obviously that's not going to be the case in every situation and there are always risks inherent in driving, and a seatbelt is not a magic bullet that will always save your life and never cause harm, but I am convinced the odds are still a lot better if you're wearing one.

[Casserole]

13 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I know it's your dad not you, but for the record a seatbelt actually has a good chance of keeping you safer even if your vehicle goes into water because it means you're more likely to stay conscious due to not hitting the windshield or getting thrown around in the car. If you're still conscious and alert, you at least have a chance to equalize the pressure and escape the car before you run out of air. If you hit your head and you're out cold, it doesn't really matter that you're free of your seatbelt because you aren't able to get yourself out of the car. (ETA: Same thing applies to a burning vehicle, for the same reason.)

Obviously that's not going to be the case in every situation and there are always risks inherent in driving, and a seatbelt is not a magic bullet that will always save your life and never cause harm, but I am convinced the odds are still a lot better if you're wearing one.

 

I tried to tell him that. I think I researched it as a child because I didn't like his answer and if I had to wear my seatbelt so would he! I think that research led to the reason I (not so) subconsciously open my car windows every time I'm on the bridge. 

[artdecades]

I am not going to watch it. I cut the cord, but I am also not going to stream it because it just isn't fun to even hate watch anymore for me.

I am sure most of the viewers tuning in tonight are hatewatchers or curious onlookers taking in the car wreck

[pnwgypsy]

That didn't take long. JB & M are in the first ep.

[Defrauding Feminist ESQ]

16 hours ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

FWIW:  My father didn't breastfeed me.  To this day, we have a hard time getting along.

I just choked on my coffee.  I love you!

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 7:17 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

BUT FORMULA IS PRACTICALLY LIQUID AUTISM AND AIDS AND CELIAC DISEASE AND SPURGEON WILL GET BAD GRADES IN HOMESCHOOL AND JOIN ISIS BECAUSE JESSA DIDN'T LOVE HIM ENOUGH TO BREASTFEED HIM UNTIL HE'S 18 /sarcasm

Give your baby love and nutrition. How that nutrition is delivered to your baby doesn't matter as long as you're giving your baby the means to grow and thrive.

Dying at formula being the gateway drug to ISIS.  Here's my thoughts on the formula vs breastfeeding debate:

 

IF YOU BREASTFEED: Isn't the human body amazing???  Good for you - you're keeping your baby fed.  You're a great parent!

 

IF YOU FORMULA FEED: Isn't science amazing??? Good for you - you're keeping your baby fed.  You're a great parent!

[Ungodly Grandma]

16 hours ago, Bushes of Love said:

I can't watch it because it's not on in the UK and I can't seem to find out if it will ever be shown here. I will have to rely on the snark of you guys until I can find it online!

I feel certain the snark is more entertaining!

10 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

Totes watching, martini in hand. Gonna take a sip every time they say "walk through."

Oh dear. I hope you are feeling alright today? 

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

Totes watching, martini in hand. Gonna take a sip every time they say "walk through."

Dearly beloved. We gather here today to remember QuiverDance, a beloved member of our forum. May she snark in peace. 

[Gimme a Free RV]

1 hour ago, Defrauding Feminist ESQ said:

I just choked on my coffee.  I love you!

Awww....how sweeeet!  I made you choke!

My father didn't breastfeed me.  He also didn't change my (cloth) diapers except once.  My mother took a picture of him doing it, as proof.

[Arrowoftruth]

Okay so I don't have kids so I was wondering why they aren't supposed to wear puffy coats in carseats? Is it suffocation thing or...? What if it's really cold? How are they supposed to stay warm?

[pnwgypsy]

Okay so I don't have kids so I was wondering why they aren't supposed to wear puffy coats in carseats? Is it suffocation thing or...? What if it's really cold? How are they supposed to stay warm?

If they're wearing a puffy coat you can't get the straps properly tightened. They should be in snug fitting clothes & then you put a blanket over them. (also not a parent, but I've learned this via friends)