Bates Family Part 11

[SweetFellowshipper]

42 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Wouldn't shock me. I picked up on that in the last episode, big time.  

I'm curious about this (haven't watched the episode yet). Could you expand?

[QuiverDance]

10 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I'm curious about this (haven't watched the episode yet). Could you expand?

I did in an earlier post.  It's not that he behaves inappropriately on camera, it's that SHE is so skittish about his reactions to things she does without him.  She seems to have a strong personality within her family, so to see her hesitate about moving her own freaking furniture because Brandon might object was weird to me.  Of course, none of that means a thing.  It was probably staged.  I just know it got my attention.  Maybe that was projectio, or maybe it was recognition.  

[Mela99]

49 minutes ago, refugee said:

Sheesh. After I got married, every time I talked to my dad on the phone he liked to ask (jokingly), "Are you pregnant yet?"

I didn't think it all that funny -- but then, I didn't think a heck of a lot of his jokes were funny at all.

I feel you. My dad keeps commenting that he'll probably never live to see me produce a child. Last week he told me "You wouldn't understand because you're not a parent. If you had chosen to, maybe you would." He's unaware of our fertility issues but it's still a shitty thing to say to your kid.

[ladyaudley]

3 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

I did in an earlier post.  It's not that he behaves inappropriately on camera, it's that SHE is so skittish about his reactions to things she does without him.  She seems to have a strong personality within her family, so to see her hesitate about moving her own freaking furniture because Brandon might object was weird to me.  Of course, none of that means a thing.  It was probably staged.  I just know it got my attention.  Maybe that was projectio, or maybe it was recognition.  

Maybe it's just her desire to please, but I agree with you. It stood out for me particularly when she surprised him during their engagement and immediately got really defensive about how she hadn't lied to him. Brandon also creeps me out a bit, but that's unsubstantiated. 

[mstee]

3 minutes ago, ladyaudley said:

Maybe it's just her desire to please, but I agree with you. It stood out for me particularly when she surprised him during their engagement and immediately got really defensive about how she hadn't lied to him. Brandon also creeps me out a bit, but that's unsubstantiated. 

I was just about to post about that. That stood out to me so much when Michael was trying to explain to him that she hadn't lied about surprising him. You could tell she had her defensive statement all worked out beforehand, like she expected him to accuse her of lying. But If I remember correctly, a couple of episodes prior he had surprised her at her own house! No one accused him of lying. Double standard much? I really hope that he treats her well and what we're seeing is her trying to be a super submissive wife. And the whole furniture thing was odd to me. Obviously all men aren't the same, but if my fiancé had come home to the house rearranged, he'd probably say it was fine the way it was, and then not care. Most men I know are like that. Brandon seems very particular. 

[HRM1216]

I, personally, don't get the abused or mistreated vibe from her. She reminds me of when people get their first serious partner in their teens and yearn for their approval over every little thing. Obviously this doesn't occur to everyone, but Michaela reminds me quite a bit of a 16 year old trying to impress her boyfriend at all times, so she's unnecessarily concerned with his opinion on even the smallest details. I would also assume that since she had been nothing but anxious and excited to get married that she wants to avoid all possible disagreements because married life is supposed to be happy happy sunshine all the time.

I could be completely off base, but I just don't get the shitty-guy vibe from Brandon.  

[punkiepie]

After watching her brother and two younger sisters get married, and then all have children, before she ever got married- I think she's just incredibly relieved she found a guy and got married and she's terrified of doing anything to jeopardize that.  Everything she does concerning Brandon is all about making him happy, to not rock the boat in the slightest.  No one else in her family has a marriage like that- where the woman has totally changed her personality, becoming meek and not thinking about anything else besides her husband.  I'm hopeful that this change to Michael is just a temporary one.  

[QuiverDance]

58 minutes ago, HRM1216 said:

I, personally, don't get the abused or mistreated vibe from her. She reminds me of when people get their first serious partner in their teens and yearn for their approval over every little thing. Obviously this doesn't occur to everyone, but Michaela reminds me quite a bit of a 16 year old trying to impress her boyfriend at all times, so she's unnecessarily concerned with his opinion on even the smallest details. I would also assume that since she had been nothing but anxious and excited to get married that she wants to avoid all possible disagreements because married life is supposed to be happy happy sunshine all the time.

I could be completely off base, but I just don't get the shitty-guy vibe from Brandon.  

At the risk of sounding like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, it's not that I get a "shitty-guy" vibe from Brandon.  I just get a kind of... fastidious?  controlling?  particular?  authoritarian in an aw shucks understated way? vibe from Brandon.  And, as I said.... that could be projection.  I don't think he's like AN INTENTIONAL DICK.  I get the feeling he is particular, and that his wife is bending over backwards to make sure he is pleased at all times, which is really... ugh... just not healthy for her.  

 

I also know, from my own experience as a young woman, that it is easy to get caught up in the competence/capability/ability to provide/outwardly expressed good intentions/seeming "good guy" aspects of a man, only to find, upon being in closer quarters with him, that he's actually a controlling asshole who seems so competent and capable because he's a controlling asshole who will make you suffer greatly in his quest to seem always competent and capable.  Sorry.  Maybe that's too much projection.  

[MissBitters]

31 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

After watching her brother and two younger sisters get married, and then all have children, before she ever got married- I think she's just incredibly relieved she found a guy and got married and she's terrified of doing anything to jeopardize that.  Everything she does concerning Brandon is all about making him happy, to not rock the boat in the slightest.  No one else in her family has a marriage like that- where the woman has totally changed her personality, becoming meek and not thinking about anything else besides her husband.  I'm hopeful that this change to Michael is just a temporary one.  

I hate to use the word, but she came across as so desperate in her pre-wedding episodes. It was very off-putting to me because of it. I know her reaction is the result of her parents not letting her date like a normal teenager, but, combined with her sanctimonious behavior, it made it hard for me to like Michael. Brandon seems like a quiet, thoughtful guy, but he's just as much as stickler about their rules as Michael is. His comments about how she "lied" about visiting proved that. I hope they relax a little over time, though, even if they are still drinking the ATI Kool-Aid.

[Dandruff]

I think both Brandon and Michael are the fundiest within their ultra-fundie families, and that it spawns rigid perfectionism.  They both seem intent on seeing/saying/doing everything right all the time.  I don't think Brandon is a bad guy, though he did come across as kind of dickish during the surprise visit in Texas episode.  He also seemed more nervous in front of the cameras than he has more recently, so maybe that was it.  Michael, meanwhile, still seems to be in the throes of full-blown teenage crush.

I believe Brandon deeply cares about Michael, but also needs everything to be just so.  Michael is trying to make sure that everything is.

I hope, for the sake of their kids (whenever that happens), that they're all inclined to be as fundie as their parents.  I think they'll be very uncomfortable otherwise.

[HRM1216]

1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

At the risk of sounding like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, it's not that I get a "shitty-guy" vibe from Brandon.  I just get a kind of... fastidious?  controlling?  particular?  authoritarian in an aw shucks understated way? vibe from Brandon.  And, as I said.... that could be projection.  I don't think he's like AN INTENTIONAL DICK.  I get the feeling he is particular, and that his wife is bending over backwards to make sure he is pleased at all times, which is really... ugh... just not healthy for her.  

 

I also know, from my own experience as a young woman, that it is easy to get caught up in the competence/capability/ability to provide/outwardly expressed good intentions/seeming "good guy" aspects of a man, only to find, upon being in closer quarters with him, that he's actually a controlling asshole who seems so competent and capable because he's a controlling asshole who will make you suffer greatly in his quest to seem always competent and capable.  Sorry.  Maybe that's too much projection.  

Don't be sorry, we all have different opinions. I think we all project a little bit here and there. Also, I think it's fine to say we disagree on this, if you get that vibe from him and I don't, that's okay. It's why this board exists. I don't have that kind of experience so it's very possible I am not as enabled to see those sorts of smaller signs.

[19 cats and counting]

1 hour ago, HRM1216 said:

I, personally, don't get the abused or mistreated vibe from her. She reminds me of when people get their first serious partner in their teens and yearn for their approval over every little thing. Obviously this doesn't occur to everyone, but Michaela reminds me quite a bit of a 16 year old trying to impress her boyfriend at all times, so she's unnecessarily concerned with his opinion on even the smallest details. I would also assume that since she had been nothing but anxious and excited to get married that she wants to avoid all possible disagreements because married life is supposed to be happy happy sunshine all the time.

I could be completely off base, but I just don't get the shitty-guy vibe from Brandon.  

This. 

Also the Michael you see on BUB is not the one that's appeared on the Duggar shows early on.  She was a very quiet and behind the scenes type, and really embraced her role as sister mom (look at Callie in tears at the wedding for evidence). She's also used to raising the littles (didn't she potty train them?) and is probably bored during the day.  Honestly I think Brandon brought her out of her shell.

Brandon seems like a good guy for her.  Honestly, I'm drawn to that type (intense, quiet, nerdy) without the ATI beliefs so this could be my bias speaking.  I don't see anything malicious about him, just that he's camera shy and a lot of things could be staged.  Will they leave ATI?  Let's just say there's a better likelihood of me voting for Donald Trump.  

[Snarkle]

While I certainly hope that Brandon does treat Michaella well (especially with Chad as a brother-in-law), I also wonder how much her family has to do with it.  Michaella was adamant that Brandon might not like the changes, but considering she had only been living with him for a short time after pining for him so long and her family just swoops in and wants to change everything when they don't even live there or use the space themselves - that could explain some of that.  It's a tiny apartment and she seemed to have a reason for each piece of furniture and where it was (like Brandon's desk and their morning time chair), yet her visiting family pretty much told her everything was wrong and she needed to change it.  While Brandon grew up in a large family, too, I'd imagine when a number of the Bateseses come to visit, it's overwhelming, especially Carlin who is rather outspoken.  So while there may be some undercurrents of tension regarding perfectionism, it must be difficult when every time he sees Michaella's family they overwhelm him, often literally overrunning him (like when he visited her for holidays at the family home).  Who knows - they might have moved everything back by now anyway.  Sometimes you have to live with change to see if it works for you (and this is advice from the professional organizer I work with).

[punkiepie]

1 hour ago, Snarkle said:

While I certainly hope that Brandon does treat Michaella well (especially with Chad as a brother-in-law), I also wonder how much her family has to do with it.  Michaella was adamant that Brandon might not like the changes, but considering she had only been living with him for a short time after pining for him so long and her family just swoops in and wants to change everything when they don't even live there or use the space themselves - that could explain some of that.  It's a tiny apartment and she seemed to have a reason for each piece of furniture and where it was (like Brandon's desk and their morning time chair), yet her visiting family pretty much told her everything was wrong and she needed to change it.  While Brandon grew up in a large family, too, I'd imagine when a number of the Bateseses come to visit, it's overwhelming, especially Carlin who is rather outspoken.  So while there may be some undercurrents of tension regarding perfectionism, it must be difficult when every time he sees Michaella's family they overwhelm him, often literally overrunning him (like when he visited her for holidays at the family home).  Who knows - they might have moved everything back by now anyway.  Sometimes you have to live with change to see if it works for you (and this is advice from the professional organizer I work with).

I totally get what you're saying. And if it were me, with my family coming to my first apartment for the first time and wanting to change everything I'd done, I'd be like screw all of you! But not as nicely.  Eventually, I would consider their ideas, but it would most likely be after I was all alone, as to not give them the satisfaction of admitting they were right and I was wrong.  But with Michaela, the anger/unwillingness/fear that she experienced at the thought of moving the furniture around without Brandon was very abnormal.  She didn't care how the room looked; she only cared that Brandon would be happy with it.  If it were me, I'd be pissed that my family thought they knew more about design and style than I did and wanted to fix my mistakes.  With Michaela, she was the-fundie-version-of-pissed; she was afraid her family was undermining Brandon and he would get mad at the changes they'd made.  Her voice has been replaced with Brandon's voice.

It would be unfair to place the blame for this entirely on Brandon's shoulders.  But at some point, some point soon, he really needs to use the power of his headship to give Michaela a comfortable space to express herself- differences, agreements and all.  Until she feels safe and secure in her role as his wife, she won't ever feel like she can just be herself.

 It's like Julia Roberts in The Runaway Bride, circa 1999.  With every single guy, her character changes to become the perfect partner to that particular person. This was best seen with how she liked her eggs; each of her fiancée said that she liked her eggs the same way [he] liked them- one was scrambled, one was egg whites only, etc.. But none of those versions were her actual favorite (eggs Benedict) she only told them that because she thought it was what the guy wanted to hear.  

[GoneDownTheRabbitHole]

I see Josie and Carlin seem to be visiting Alyssa and she is -gasp- wearing pants around them! I wonder how they feel seeing their big sister blatantly changing the family rules. I was under the impression the party line was "Alyssa decides what to do in her own family, but abides by our rules when she's with us." I wonder if it will encourage them to question rules in their own little ways. I'm sure they hear an earful from Mom and Dad talking about Alyssa wearing jeans, changing her hair often, and generally living a little bit of a more mainstream life. 

[justmy2cents]

33 minutes ago, GoneDownTheRabbitHole said:

I see Josie and Carlin seem to be visiting Alyssa and she is -gasp- wearing pants around them! I wonder how they feel seeing their big sister blatantly changing the family rules. I was under the impression the party line was "Alyssa decides what to do in her own family, but abides by our rules when she's with us." I wonder if it will encourage them to question rules in their own little ways. I'm sure they hear an earful from Mom and Dad talking about Alyssa wearing jeans, changing her hair often, and generally living a little bit of a more mainstream life. 

There are no rules in place for how she dresses around her siblings.  Either she or Kelly has said that she would be respectful of her mother when visiting their home (paraphrasing).  Alyssa has put up pictures on Instagram wearing Jeans around Carlin during an earlier visit and while Lawson visited in the summer.  She went to Kelly's sister's wedding in a sleeveless dress.

[punkiepie]

4 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

At the risk of sounding like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, it's not that I get a "shitty-guy" vibe from Brandon.  I just get a kind of... fastidious?  controlling?  particular?  authoritarian in an aw shucks understated way? vibe from Brandon.  And, as I said.... that could be projection.  I don't think he's like AN INTENTIONAL DICK.  I get the feeling he is particular, and that his wife is bending over backwards to make sure he is pleased at all times, which is really... ugh... just not healthy for her.  

 

I also know, from my own experience as a young woman, that it is easy to get caught up in the competence/capability/ability to provide/outwardly expressed good intentions/seeming "good guy" aspects of a man, only to find, upon being in closer quarters with him, that he's actually a controlling asshole who seems so competent and capable because he's a controlling asshole who will make you suffer greatly in his quest to seem always competent and capable.  Sorry.  Maybe that's too much projection.  

I vividly remember my first experience with changing myself for a man. I was recently out of a very long-term relationship and I thought this guy was "different." In truth, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing; a product of a very wealthy boarding prep school and equally pretentious college.  Having attended an Ivy League college, I assumed we were an equal match. It never even dawned on me, not once, that I would be the one who was deemed inferior, or "less than."

It wouldn't be honest if I said that he forced me to change; it was much more insidious than that.  I was never a stereotypically preppy person, but I also wasn't a trendy girl; I wore what I liked, what looked good on me.  But I didn't like to look like everyone else either. If I had to pin it down, I'd say that while I blended in, something about me stood out, made me different than every single other girl.  When I started dating this guy, his comments began as underhanded compliments..." You should wear something like that more often" and "You look amazing- why don't you always wear clothes like that?"  Then they became more pointed... "Are you sure that's what you want wear?" and "I'll take you shopping and help you pick out an outfit to wear tonight." 

Slowly but surely, I changed from confidant and self-assured to an indecisive and co-dependent girl. I didn't realize it was happening at the time, I was like the frog in the boiling water; I didn't see it until it was too late. I bought an entire new wardrobe to better fit in with his old money preppy friends. I didn't speak to the men unless spoken to first- something I learned the hard way by being told to "know my place" by one of his friends. I straightened my curly hair every day because natural curls are "low class."  I wore ribbons in my straight hair, pearl earrings always in my ears, and never let on I was more intelligent than his male friends, lest they feel emasculated by a smart woman.  As sad and embarrassed as I am to say this, I completely changed myself to fit into the mold he wanted me in.  And I didn't even know it until I was someone I no longer recognized.

I'm back to me now. It took some time, but the real me was there underneath all that fakeness.  Hopefully, Michaela will find her voice again and feel secure enough to assert herself when she doesn't agree with Brandon. It probably won't be today or tomorrow, but you can only deny yourself, to yourself, for so long before you have total breakdown.  

 

[Jana814]

I think in some way Michaela is still trying to figure things out. She is away from the only home she has known. She had never been alone with Brandon till now. I hope she finds herself. She always seemed like the shy one to me, more then happy to stand in the background & watch the children. 

[JillyO]

5 hours ago, punkiepie said:

I vividly remember my first experience with changing myself for a man. I was recently out of a very long-term relationship and I thought this guy was "different." In truth, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing; a product of a very wealthy boarding prep school and equally pretentious college.  Having attended an Ivy League college, I assumed we were an equal match. It never even dawned on me, not once, that I would be the one who was deemed inferior, or "less than."

It wouldn't be honest if I said that he forced me to change; it was much more insidious than that.  I was never a stereotypically preppy person, but I also wasn't a trendy girl; I wore what I liked, what looked good on me.  But I didn't like to look like everyone else either. If I had to pin it down, I'd say that while I blended in, something about me stood out, made me different than every single other girl.  When I started dating this guy, his comments began as underhanded compliments..." You should wear something like that more often" and "You look amazing- why don't you always wear clothes like that?"  Then they became more pointed... "Are you sure that's what you want wear?" and "I'll take you shopping and help you pick out an outfit to wear tonight." 

Slowly but surely, I changed from confidant and self-assured to an indecisive and co-dependent girl. I didn't realize it was happening at the time, I was like the frog in the boiling water; I didn't see it until it was too late. I bought an entire new wardrobe to better fit in with his old money preppy friends. I didn't speak to the men unless spoken to first- something I learned the hard way by being told to "know my place" by one of his friends. I straightened my curly hair every day because natural curls are "low class."  I wore ribbons in my straight hair, pearl earrings always in my ears, and never let on I was more intelligent than his male friends, lest they feel emasculated by a smart woman.  As sad and embarrassed as I am to say this, I completely changed myself to fit into the mold he wanted me in.  And I didn't even know it until I was someone I no longer recognized.

I'm back to me now. It took some time, but the real me was there underneath all that fakeness.  Hopefully, Michaela will find her voice again and feel secure enough to assert herself when she doesn't agree with Brandon. It probably won't be today or tomorrow, but you can only deny yourself, to yourself, for so long before you have total breakdown.  

 

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Something very similar happened to an old college friend of mine.

He comes from "old money" and thinks he's something better for it. Dropped out of law school (here you go straight to law school after high school, so he doesn't have an undergrad degree either - nothing post-high school) and still thinks he is smarter and better than her, who has a master's degree. They work in the same position, which is where they met; except for him this is probably as high as he will ever climb without going back to school (he is mid-to-late 30's), whereas for her it is her first job out of grad school and I am sure she could work her way up quite fast, if he'd let her.

There are/were so many warning signs. Old friend lived with one of my best friends for a while and never, not once, did she bring the guy home because she didn't want him to see "the squalor". Let me assure you, this is a VERY nice, modern apartment in really good condition in an up-and-coming neighborhood (I'm guessing that's part of the problem - must live in old-money neighborhood). He also informed old friend, little by little, that her teeth were crooked, she dressed like a little girl instead of a grown woman, walked like a duck, etc. etc. Also, when she confronted him about flirting with another girl in a bar when she was sitting a few feet away with some of his friends, he told her to know her place and not to dare question him again in front of his friends. Lovely, right?

Unfortunately, this old friend is now married to this "lovely" man. He proposed on their first anniversary (this isn't even taking into account the two months they were separated in between) and they got married shortly thereafter. No one from college has any contact with her any more, as far as I know. This is such a train wreck waiting to happen. From the stories she told us before they got married, best friend and I were always worried that he would start beating her at some point. I just hope that's not true...

[Iokaste]

11 hours ago, mstee said:

I was just about to post about that. That stood out to me so much when Michael was trying to explain to him that she hadn't lied about surprising him. You could tell she had her defensive statement all worked out beforehand, like she expected him to accuse her of lying. But If I remember correctly, a couple of episodes prior he had surprised her at her own house! No one accused him of lying. Double standard much? I really hope that he treats her well and what we're seeing is her trying to be a super submissive wife. And the whole furniture thing was odd to me. Obviously all men aren't the same, but if my fiancé had come home to the house rearranged, he'd probably say it was fine the way it was, and then not care. Most men I know are like that. Brandon seems very particular. 

I really didn't see that at all. It wasn't the visiting him, that was joked about as a lie, it was that Michael had said she'd see him for his birthday and so given him the impression, that they wouldn't see each other before then, that could be seen as lying by omission.
Since honesty is pushes as important in every case (execpt of course if you are in a leadership role), I can see how it would be important for her not to use even a coverstory to be able to surprise him. 

About the moving around furniture, I really did see Michael's hesitation as a nervousness aimed at Brandon, probably more an irritation with having to deal with Carlin's hyperness again, having finally gotten out of the chaos and in to a much calmer situation more suited to her personality.

[MotherOfDragons]

I binge-watched BUB last night (no, I'm not particularly proud of this fact, but I streamed the episodes for free online). I'm a nursing student, and I never have time to actually watch the episodes when they air. I was struck by something, and I'm now very curious. How do the Bateses reconcile their affinity for Nathan Bedford Forrest with the fact that Kelly has 2 adopted African American sisters? At the wedding shower they threw for the one black sister, the kids showed a real closeness to their aunt. Erin went into a seemingly genuine speech about how the aunt was more like a cousin because they grew up together so close in age. Janey obviously adores ALL her children. 

Anybody have any insight on this situation?

[Jenirishdancer]

17 hours ago, mstee said:

I was just about to post about that. That stood out to me so much when Michael was trying to explain to him that she hadn't lied about surprising him. You could tell she had her defensive statement all worked out beforehand, like she expected him to accuse her of lying. But If I remember correctly, a couple of episodes prior he had surprised her at her own house! No one accused him of lying. Double standard much? I really hope that he treats her well and what we're seeing is her trying to be a super submissive wife. And the whole furniture thing was odd to me. Obviously all men aren't the same, but if my fiancé had come home to the house rearranged, he'd probably say it was fine the way it was, and then not care. Most men I know are like that. Brandon seems very particular. 

This! He really does seem particular.  Also, the surprise/ lying thing is absurd! Hellooooooooo it's a surprise- if a fib was told it was so you could be surprised! I mean seriously isn't it super sweet and fun to be surprised like that??!! Weird to say the least!!

[Georgiana]

9 minutes ago, Jenirishdancer said:

This! He really does seem particular.  Also, the surprise/ lying thing is absurd! Hellooooooooo it's a surprise- if a fib was told it was so you could be surprised! I mean seriously isn't it super sweet and fun to be surprised like that??!! Weird to say the least!!

She's not wrong when she implies that not everyone likes surprises.  And this isn't a little surprise like "Hey honey!  I'm treating you to lunch!".  This is like "Hi!!  Drop any and all plans you had for the next 3 days!  I'm here!"  The thing about surprises is that surprises, done wrong, are actually really dismissive of the other person.  And some people are more sensitive to that than others.  

I had a friend in college get mad when her long distance bf surprised her.  She had two major midterms on Monday, one of which was for O Chem (which boasted a 50% failure/incompletion rate), and she just didn't have time to hang out with him.  And like Michael, he didn't have anyone else to hang out with if his partner was busy.  I mean, yeah he was going for cute and sweet, but it was also really dismissive of his gf and her schedule/life...as if he could just show up any weekend and expect her to just drop everything to host him.  

I also hate surprises, so I guess I have more sympathy for Brandon.  I would hate it if my long distance bf showed up without telling me (hello, I have a life, and I shouldn't need to choose between feeling guilty for cancelling my plans and feeling guilty for being a terrible gf), and I would hate it if someone re-arranged my/our furniture without discussing it with me.  I mean, I wouldn't be mad, but you would be better served to couch it in "So I'm just trying things out with the furniture.  Take a look and let me know what you think.  We can always move it back!"

[Natalie22]

26 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

She's not wrong when she implies that not everyone likes surprises.  And this isn't a little surprise like "Hey honey!  I'm treating you to lunch!".  This is like "Hi!!  Drop any and all plans you had for the next 3 days!  I'm here!"  The thing about surprises is that surprises, done wrong, are actually really dismissive of the other person.  And some people are more sensitive to that than others.  

I had a friend in college get mad when her long distance bf surprised her.  She had two major midterms on Monday, one of which was for O Chem (which boasted a 50% failure/incompletion rate), and she just didn't have time to hang out with him.  And like Michael, he didn't have anyone else to hang out with if his partner was busy.  I mean, yeah he was going for cute and sweet, but it was also really dismissive of his gf and her schedule/life...as if he could just show up any weekend and expect her to just drop everything to host him.  

I also hate surprises, so I guess I have more sympathy for Brandon.  I would hate it if my long distance bf showed up without telling me (hello, I have a life, and I shouldn't need to choose between feeling guilty for cancelling my plans and feeling guilty for being a terrible gf), and I would hate it if someone re-arranged my/our furniture without discussing it with me.  I mean, I wouldn't be mad, but you would be better served to couch it in "So I'm just trying things out with the furniture.  Take a look and let me know what you think.  We can always move it back!"

To be fair to Michael, she did coordinate it with at least one of Brandon's sisters and I think some people at his school.  If he was in the middle of big midterms or finals, I'm sure they could have spoken up about maybe surprising him for his birthday the week before or after.  Also, because Michael has to be chaperoned, it isn't like there were no other people there; again at least one of Brandon's sisters was there, so if he had something he had to do, he could still get it done and she could have done something else.

[nausicaa]

6 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

To be fair to Michael, she did coordinate it with at least one of Brandon's sisters and I think some people at his school.  If he was in the middle of big midterms or finals, I'm sure they could have spoken up about maybe surprising him for his birthday the week before or after.  Also, because Michael has to be chaperoned, it isn't like there were no other people there; again at least one of Brandon's sisters was there, so if he had something he had to do, he could still get it done and she could have done something else.

Yeah, but as an introvert, that would still be a big imposition for me. What if he were looking forward to having a couple days to himself? What if he had just bought a great book he wanted to read? It's a bit awkward to say, "Hey, now that you've come all the way out here, could you go hang out with my sisters for a couple hours while I go for a run and read a book?" He also seems like a more Type A planner, and so probably didn't like his schedule being thrown off so much. As soon as he sees Michael, Boom, any and all plans for the next three days need to be chucked on the spot.

To me, that was a classic case of how our society, and Fundie society especially, allows extroverts to walk over introverts and not respect their boundaries. 

(If there's any lesson I can impart on this thread--for the love of God do not assume it's super fun and sweet to surprise another person. I have heard so many horror stories about this from other introverts.)