Bates Family Part 11

[O Latin]

16 minutes ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I wouldn't say I was frumpy in high school (other than the standard cringeyness that comes when you look back on 15 year old pictures because of now dated fashions) but as someone who has always been an introvert with little interest in parties and clubs, I definitely appreciate what you're saying. If I was on a reality show, people would likely pity my 'lack of social life', but my social life is fine, I'm just the type who has a smaller number of close friends rather than a shit ton of acquaintances I party with and enjoys studying more than drinking. 

Michael definitely strikes me as the biggest KoolAid drinker of the oldest kids and I don't think there is any doubt she was much more content with the lifestyle and family she was born into than Alyssa was. 

You're right that it is a stretch to think Michael would wear PINK Yoga pants, so maybe not the best example. But regardless, there is still just something really.....sad about a then nineteen year old girl (and Erin would have been 17 or 18 here as well) being put on television in a horrid pink floral frumper dress with a frilly collar that matches her kid and toddler sisters at an age when her peers are off discovering their own style and having new experiences that don't involve potty training their little siblings. 

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Even I would never have been caught dead in one of those loud, printed frumpers. 

I have an acquaintance who worked at Victoria's Secret in college and thus wore a LOT of PINK stuff, so she is who I picture when think of girls in PINK yoga pants. She really does fit the stereotype of cute, giggly college girl (although she's not in college anymore), and it was just funny to imagine Michael Bates hanging out with someone like her. 

The fact that fundie kids, especially girls, don't really get to experience the joys of typical teenage life gets brought up a lot and I get where people are coming from, because now I look back and sometimes wish I had done more "typical teenager" stuff, and their lives do seem very limited. But I also remember how frustrated I sometimes got, because not only did I not fit in with my peers, but the adults in my life couldn't understand why I dressed like a grandma and would rather go to church concerts with my parents than out with my friends. I spent a lot of time wishing I had been born into a family like the Duggars (this was before I really understood what the Duggars and fundamentalist Christianity were all about). So when people start saying that so-and-so fundie kid should be shopping for a prom dress or playing on the school soccer team or whatever, sometimes I get the urge to jump in and say, "but maybe she wouldn't want to do those things anyway." I know that what people are really saying is that these kids should have the CHOICE to do those things, and I agree. But even if they did truly have a choice, some of them might choose frumpers and Bible study anyway. 

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, O Latin said:

The fact that fundie kids, especially girls, don't really get to experience the joys of typical teenage life gets brought up a lot and I get where people are coming from, because now I look back and sometimes wish I had done more "typical teenager" stuff, and their lives do seem very limited. But I also remember how frustrated I sometimes got, because not only did I not fit in with my peers, but the adults in my life couldn't understand why I dressed like a grandma and would rather go to church concerts with my parents than out with my friends. I spent a lot of time wishing I had been born into a family like the Duggars (this was before I really understood what the Duggars and fundamentalist Christianity were all about). So when people start saying that so-and-so fundie kid should be shopping for a prom dress or playing on the school soccer team or whatever, sometimes I get the urge to jump in and say, "but maybe she wouldn't want to do those things anyway." I know that what people are really saying is that these kids should have the CHOICE to do those things, and I agree. But even if they did truly have a choice, some of them might choose frumpers and Bible study anyway. 

I second everything you said, O Latin. I have a strong feeling that even if brought up as mainstream Christians in the secular world, Michael Bates would still have been a total homebody, Mom's best friend; the shy and introverted, responsible oldest sister. Erin, I could see being a total whiz in the music department of her school. Oh the ways her talent could have been nurtured and the scholarships she could have gotten!

 Same goes for Lawson who could have joined choirs, the school band etc. I could imagine Tori being the sporty tomboy, who has mainly male friends and plays on the basketball team while excelling in school and applying for a teacher's program at a real college with a real future in teaching. Alyssa fits the cheerleading, homecoming queen stereotype who isn't too fond of academics but excels at organizing events and having an eye for the beautiful and chic stuff.

Zach is lucky to have found a spouse that encouraged him to pursue a more realistic, secular career. However, had he been brought up in my parallel universe, his intellectual abilities could have been fostered in just so many different ways. The Bateses like to praise his responsible and reasonable nature, his love of reading and perseverance. Zach could have gotten a college degree and become detective, or maybe he'd have chosen a military career had he been given the choice. 

I never criticize their choice to have so many children. I'm shaking my head over the potential that they are wasting, though. 

Btw, I don't think this goes for the Bateses only. The Duggars' history could have been entirely different as well. I don't want to speculate on alternative universe Josh but with a different upbringing and different health ed, his life could have gone the other way. He could be a lawyer now without a stained record. Jill could be a college educated RN nurse midwife. Jana a music teacher, Jessa just finishing her degree in business administration or any other career opening major, Jinger going to photography school and Joy-Anna playing on a basketball team with Tori Bates. 

Not everybody needs a college degree, but kids deserve a chance to work their way towards a seminal education if that was their wish. 

There's just plenty of alternative scenarios that could have played out, had the parents not bought into the crazy. However, it's likely that some kids' way would not be entirely different from the path they've taken now.

[colors_outside15]

15 hours ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

Not sure if any of you watch Bringing Up Bates - I do because I need something to snark on in my life and since the Duggars have been off the air I've had to substitute with the Bates'.

Anyway, in last night's episode they went to Zach's police academy and did some stuff - pushups, yelling "sir yes sir", things like that.

Aside from seeing that Alyssa always avoided matching jumpers, was rolling her eyes at Lawson when they sang at Dollywood, and kept her family out of her house when they came to visit (let's pick oranges, let's ride a monster truck, let's go to the beach etc. etc.) - along with choosing new clothes, telling a man if someone wants to sexualize her that it's not her fault (on instagram), and telling other people to, essentially stfu (in a polite manner), about her clothing choices on valentine's day ...

my favorite thing about the whole damn show has to be seeing gil being ordered to yell, "sir yes sir!" i don't know how many times he did it, but every time, i had a huge fucking grin on my face. i wish the kidadults would make him say that at home. "dad, i'm going out with friends (wearing jeans and the boy i have a crush on might be there) - bye!" -- "ma'am yes ma'am!" 

[Ungodly Grandma]

On 3/11/2016 at 3:21 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

There's a porn star named Lexington Steele. He was a stockbroker in New York before he went into porn, and he picked Lexington as his stage name off of a subway map because it sounded cool and distinguished. And it turns out that porn saved his life; had he still been a stockbroker, he may well have died in the September 11th attacks, since his office was in the World Trade Center.

Also, I really want Cherin to start naming their kids after New York neighborhoods and districts (not just boroughs). Tribeca actually sounds like it could be a name. But then you could also have Prospect Park Paine, Astoria Paine, Flushing Paine, Washington Heights Paine, and Staten Island Paine.

Don't forget Hell's Kitchen.

[actuallyjessica]

Has no one mentioned Meat Packing District Bates?

Too far?

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, actuallyjessica said:

Has no one mentioned Meat Packing District Bates?

Too far?

Is it bad my initial reaction is to correct you on the last name? If it's Cherin naming their kids after neighborhoods, it would be Meat Packing District Paine.  

[AnywhereButHere]

Shortened to Meat. Meat Paine. Sounds like the character from Porkys. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

7 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I second everything you said, O Latin. I have a strong feeling that even if brought up as mainstream Christians in the secular world, Michael Bates would still have been a total homebody, Mom's best friend; the shy and introverted, responsible oldest sister. Erin, I could see being a total whiz in the music department of her school. Oh the ways her talent could have been nurtured and the scholarships she could have gotten!

 Same goes for Lawson who could have joined choirs, the school band etc. I could imagine Tori being the sporty tomboy, who has mainly male friends and plays on the basketball team while excelling in school and applying for a teacher's program at a real college with a real future in teaching. Alyssa fits the cheerleading, homecoming queen stereotype who isn't too fond of academics but excels at organizing events and having an eye for the beautiful and chic stuff.

Zach is lucky to have found a spouse that encouraged him to pursue a more realistic, secular career. However, had he been brought up in my parallel universe, his intellectual abilities could have been fostered in just so many different ways. The Bateses like to praise his responsible and reasonable nature, his love of reading and perseverance. Zach could have gotten a college degree and become detective, or maybe he'd have chosen a military career had he been given the choice. 

I never criticize their choice to have so many children. I'm shaking my head over the potential that they are wasting, though. 

Btw, I don't think this goes for the Bateses only. The Duggars' history could have been entirely different as well. I don't want to speculate on alternative universe Josh but with a different upbringing and different health ed, his life could have gone the other way. He could be a lawyer now without a stained record. Jill could be a college educated RN nurse midwife. Jana a music teacher, Jessa just finishing her degree in business administration or any other career opening major, Jinger going to photography school and Joy-Anna playing on a basketball team with Tori Bates. 

Not everybody needs a college degree, but kids deserve a chance to work their way towards a seminal education if that was their wish. 

There's just plenty of alternative scenarios that could have played out, had the parents not bought into the crazy. However, it's likely that some kids' way would not be entirely different from the path they've taken now.

I don't think it is sad at all that Michael is a homebody/introvert (after all, I too would much rather stay at home with Netflix than go to a party), but I think it's sad to see the way fundamentalism took her life in an extreme direction. In a "normal" family, someone like Michael who is responsible and genuinely likes kids would have been the girl who babysat her little cousins/siblings and the neighbours kids for extra cash or worked as a summer camp counsellor. It would have been something she did because she wanted to and enjoyed the extra money, not being her parents expected her to potty train her younger siblings for jesus. She might have always preferred to dress on the more conservative side, but there are plenty of ways to dress conservatively that aren't a frilly frumper that matches her 2 year old sister. 

Michael probably wouldn't have chosen to be head cheerleader or anything and she probably would have been the quiet girl who dressed more on the conservative side and was involved in bible group and choir and that's completely ok, but it's just the way her personality was dragged to the 'extreme' side of the spectrum (aka: being 19 and potty training her siblings in that hideous pink and brown frilly frumper) that I find sad. 

I also completely agree with the other examples you mentioned. I really do hate the way Gil and Kelly and Boob and Michelle completely cut their children's wings and didn't give them any chance to fulfil their potential and have a normal life befitting of their personalities and interests. 

[19 cats and counting]

Alyssa should go into event planning.  She could take the throne from Sierra, and do a hell of a lot better job.

I will admit that as a kid (late 80s/early 90s) I would have been all over those colorful matching frumpers.  I LOVED old fashioned clothing then and wanted nothing more than matching outfits with my American Girl.  

But after 10, hell no.

[eandre31]

I was late and just saw the gender and name reveal. All snark on place names aside, I like the name Brooklyn. I also like the name Elise, although I'm partial because that's my first name 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I think ultimately though, Michael is one of the luckier ones who was born with the type of personality who was able to enjoy her upbringing and lifestyle even if it skewed on the more "fundie" end than she might have chosen for herself. But it does make me sad to think of all the kids out there like Alyssa who quite evidently seemed to dislike the lifestyle that was forced onto them by their parents and started making different choices the very instant they could. 

[Exjw2015deed]

8 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I second everything you said, O Latin. I have a strong feeling that even if brought up as mainstream Christians in the secular world, Michael Bates would still have been a total homebody, Mom's best friend; the shy and introverted, responsible oldest sister. Erin, I could see being a total whiz in the music department of her school. Oh the ways her talent could have been nurtured and the scholarships she could have gotten!

 Same goes for Lawson who could have joined choirs, the school band etc. I could imagine Tori being the sporty tomboy, who has mainly male friends and plays on the basketball team while excelling in school and applying for a teacher's program at a real college with a real future in teaching. Alyssa fits the cheerleading, homecoming queen stereotype who isn't too fond of academics but excels at organizing events and having an eye for the beautiful and chic stuff.

Zach is lucky to have found a spouse that encouraged him to pursue a more realistic, secular career. However, had he been brought up in my parallel universe, his intellectual abilities could have been fostered in just so many different ways. The Bateses like to praise his responsible and reasonable nature, his love of reading and perseverance. Zach could have gotten a college degree and become detective, or maybe he'd have chosen a military career had he been given the choice. 

I never criticize their choice to have so many children. I'm shaking my head over the potential that they are wasting, though. 

Btw, I don't think this goes for the Bateses only. The Duggars' history could have been entirely different as well. I don't want to speculate on alternative universe Josh but with a different upbringing and different health ed, his life could have gone the other way. He could be a lawyer now without a stained record. Jill could be a college educated RN nurse midwife. Jana a music teacher, Jessa just finishing her degree in business administration or any other career opening major, Jinger going to photography school and Joy-Anna playing on a basketball team with Tori Bates. 

Not everybody needs a college degree, but kids deserve a chance to work their way towards a seminal education if that was their wish. 

There's just plenty of alternative scenarios that could have played out, had the parents not bought into the crazy. However, it's likely that some kids' way would not be entirely different from the path they've taken now.

Can you please write fundie "fan" fiction. Please begin with David Waller and his life in San Francisco. And end with Jessa duggar modeling for playboy in college. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

8 hours ago, colors_outside15 said:

Aside from seeing that Alyssa always avoided matching jumpers, was rolling her eyes at Lawson when they sang at Dollywood, and kept her family out of her house when they came to visit (let's pick oranges, let's ride a monster truck, let's go to the beach etc. etc.) - along with choosing new clothes, telling a man if someone wants to sexualize her that it's not her fault (on instagram), and telling other people to, essentially stfu (in a polite manner), about her clothing choices on valentine's day 

I always said I'd never let myself have a pet fundie (adorable Bates grandbabies withstanding) but things like this are rapidly propelling Alyssa into "pet fundie" status in my book. I constantly find myself wanting to do the "YAS......YOU GO GIRL" clap when I look at her instagram/watch her on BUB. 

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, Exjw2015deed said:

Can you please write fundie "fan" fiction. Please begin with David Waller and his life in San Francisco. And end with Jessa duggar modeling for playboy in college. 

Nah, Jessa wouldn't do that. She'd be in the most dominant/prominent sorority at a huge southern state university, major in marketing, and then become an executive or a VP at an investment or marketing firm. She'd marry a hedge fund bro, have two kids with tryndy names, and have an Instagram full of motivational quotes and pictures of her in fancy cocktail dresses.

Jill would do a public health-related stint with Peace Corps and then become an RN.

Jana I could see going into technical theatre. She's very good at very practical, applied arts like sewing and carpentry and seems to prefer being more behind the scenes, so I could see her working at the local community theatre in high school, majoring in theatre with a focus on tech in college (or learning a trade without the Bachelor's), and then going professional/getting an MFA. Or she'd get a day  job and just do tech on the side for volunteering/fun.

[O Latin]

I can definitely picture Erin as being the star of the high school orchestra and then going on to major in music in college. My very first semester in college was at a school that was very well known for its music program and I can imagine alternate universe Erin fitting in very well there. Michael seems like someone who would have spent a lot of time in high school volunteering with either kids or elderly people. I could see her becoming an elementary school teacher. Alyssa I can't really picture as being too involved in either academics or extracurriculars, but I could see her spending a lot of time hanging out with her friends at the local ice cream shop/pizza joint/movie theater, going to the same college as her boyfriend, and changing her major several times before finally finding something she loves (she definitely seems like she would get along with my aforementioned acquaintance who worked at Victoria's Secret). 

[Ofglen]

2 hours ago, Exjw2015deed said:

Can you please write fundie "fan" fiction. Please begin with David Waller and his life in San Francisco. And end with Jessa duggar modeling for playboy in college. 

Just a gentle reminder in case anyone has forgotten or didn't know: it's not a good idea to write fan fics about real people. I think the topic has been covered here before- not sure where.

[OnceUponATime]

26 minutes ago, Ofglen said:

Just a gentle reminder in case anyone has forgotten or didn't know: it's not a good idea to write fan fics about real people. I think the topic has been covered here before- not sure where.

Somewhat recently it has been discussed in the Duggar general discussion threads #13 and #16. It's also covered in the FJ Guidelines aka The Rules.

[HereticHick]

Comments on Anastasia Salyer's Instagram (below) indicate that her family is going to Big Sandy family camp next month.  Will Nathan and Ashley get to hold hands?? SIdehug?  Will anything romantic happen while standing in line at the snack bar?  [that is where Anna met Josh, remember?]

 

 

 

[withaj]

1 hour ago, OnceUponATime said:

Somewhat recently it has been discussed in the Duggar general discussion threads #13 and #16. It's also covered in the FJ Guidelines aka The Rules.

I know it came up during the Joshley Madison threads -- there was some delusional teen writing Josh/Anna reunion fan fiction on Instagram.

[OnceUponATime]

1 minute ago, withaj said:

there was some delusional teen writing Josh/Anna reunion fan fiction on Instagram.

  I know. I left that out because ,

[withaj]

2 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

  I know. I left that out because ,

Oh, I don't want to read it again, but I DELIGHT in knowing that it existed and was terrible.

[Denim Jumper]

On 3/11/2016 at 3:27 PM, QuiverDance said:

I thought Kelly's spanking comment was  hilarious, and I didn't read anything into it, either.  I am not a spanker, and they may or may  not have been, IDK, but I tell my kids all the time, "I should spank your little derriere for that!" when they are being cheeky or sassy, and we laugh.  They know I'm not gonna do it.  LOL.  

+1. It just sounds like normal maternal affection. Let's face it, your kid will still be your baby, even when he/she is eligible for to start collecting a pension.

[PennySycamore]

42 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Comments on Anastasia Salyer's Instagram (below) indicate that her family is going to Big Sandy family camp next month.  Will Nathan and Ashley get to hold hands?? SIdehug?  Will anything romantic happen while standing in line at the snack bar?  [that is where Anna met Josh, remember?]

 

 

 

To the person who wrote that post on Instagram, the word you want is withdrawal, not withdraw.  Withdrawal is a noun; withdraw is a verb.  It's should also be "We girls"...  The Dowager Countess would be appalled by your English!

[socalrules]

5 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

To the person who wrote that post on Instagram, the word you want is withdrawal, not withdraw.  Withdrawal is a noun; withdraw is a verb.  It's should also be "We girls"...  The Dowager Countess would be appalled by your English!

They get to watch downton abbey? That is not fundy at all.

[JillyO]

Well, color me shocked that fundies would watch Downton Abbey. All of the younger women on that show are fiercely independent. Lady Edith, running a magazine, with an out-of-wedlock child. Lady Mary, first sleeping with the Turkish consul (?) as a teenager, later deciding she wants to sleep with a guy before she can decide whether she wants to marry him. She also has a career in running the estate, by the way. Lady Rose, who was very clear on what - and who - she wanted. I won't even get started on the servants. How can the Salyers justify this? I'm clutching my pearls here!