Jill Duggar Dillard Pt 7 - Y'all Wanna Pay for My Vacation?

[EmCatlyn]

I used to work for dentists, and yes, this definition is how "caries" were described to me (last year). 

Interesting.  As I said above, it seems to be a shift in the meaning from the original "decay" to "cause of decay."  (If you look it up online, caries=cavities is still the standard definition, so it would seem a shift that is within the dental profession.)

Language is fascinating.

 

[jqlgoblue]

I don't have kids yet, but I'll say the trends I see from friends is somewhat troubling. There seems to be a lot of 'the kid will tell you what you need to do' like picking up kids from nursery school when they start asking for you, deciding activities purely on what the kid wants to do, etc.

I am a northerner through and through and my parents expected me to tolerate adult things pretty young (holiday parties, regular 'adult' restaurants, treking across cities) quietly with little complaining. There was no physical punishment ever, or even grounding when I was a much older teenager, but the message that I didn't always get to do what I wanted was loud and clear. There was PLENTY of fun kid time in my life, and my mom was always prepared with coloring books and a toy or two, but I knew when I was not in charge. I think that is a valuable life lesson, and I don't see it much with child rearing these days.

[halcionne]

I guess because I still struggle with the whole " fundamentalism" idea, when I see the things they do at home, I still see .... normal Southern raisin'. 

The first time someone mentioned Michelle & blanket training I immediately thought about my own mother. Even when I was pregnant 16 years ago... My goal was an obedient child... I didn't want to beat my daughter the way we were but i wanted a child who was seen & not heard. 

A child who will sit quietly without physical boundaries is one who will sit through church service without fidgeting... one who won't wander out of curiosity...

The way I always perceived training a baby was everything from common encouragement to obtaining perfect obedience... That's what I assume these folk adhere to. (I do understand I might be so way off base it's obscene).

Please forgive me if I sound base some days, there's a piece of me deep down that tries hard to rationalize why some of their behaviors are so bad or unusual.

 

I was raised with very similar methods by my Okie father in California. I was a very sensitive child and I eventually came to realize that those methods didn't work on me and were indeed quite harmful to me. What my dad called discipline, I call physical and emotional abuse. Speaking for myself and my experience only, of course. And it took me many years to come to that conclusion.

[JesSky03]

I don't have kids yet but I will not be using physical punishment on them when I do. My dad didn't know any other form of punishment other than what he called "lickings". I was a sensitive child with strong emotions and those spankings really did damage on me. I always felt like I didn't have a voice or that my feelings didn't matter. He didn't try to understand why I was upset or acting out, it was just stop crying or get spanked. My mom mostly yelled but if she was really angry we would get a slap across the face.  Around age 11 I started sinking into depression and started rebelling. I did whatever I wanted without asking permission and often lied about where I was and what I was doing. My dad has softened up a little in his old age and he often asks why none of his daughters  (5) ever came to talk to him about our feelings or to get advice. We have an okay relationship now so I'm not going to tell  him it was because I was terrified of him and felt like he didn't listen to me anyway, I just blame it on being female and preferring to talk to my mom about stuff. I don't want my kids to ever be too afraid to come to me. 

[Screamapillar]

I agree that quiet obedience in a child of a certain age is an unreasonable expectation (Hence why we can all agree that blanket training is repulsive). When my niece was in her terrible twos and had a tantrum at home, she would throw herself on the ground in front of the front door (always in front of the front door, regardless of where in the house her tantrum originated) and scream it out. Much to the displeasure of my brother's dog, who would promptly run off to find a new place to nap, as the floor in front of the front door is typically his favorite place to lounge. Any attempts to console her during one of these outbursts would be met with a dramatic plea of "Don't look at me!" Her parents would just quietly laugh about it in the room around the corner until she was done crying it out. This child is now a ridiculously sweet and well behaved four year old. I'm not sure if I had a point to this story other than that these tantrums were really, really funny.

[ClaraOswin]

Now that im older I can see the results of my raising ( spankings not time outs) and can see how the time-out kids act. I'm a firm believer in a well deserved smack on the backside. If there's some 5 year old shrieking like a banshee and kicking/screaming in the grocery store, I politely point the parent to the bathroom where they can take care of their child. Be it a spanking or just somewhere to calm down, they need to know their behavior is unacceptable. Spankings are quick and effective.

I was also raised in the 'proper south' during times that neighbor parents and other authority figures could swat my tail of I acted up and my parents weren't around. It gave me a healthy respect for authority as well as consequences. Honestly I plan to raise my children under the same rules. That being said, I do not condone blanket training in any way nor spanking under 2 years old. Also condone use of 'the rod'. A spanking to me is a firm swat on the bottom no more than 2-3 times.

As a parent, that is your choice to discipline in whatever manner you see fit as long as the law doesn't see it as abuse (whether or not I, or anyone else agrees, doesn't matter.)

However, if you seriously point parents to a restroom or whatever as unsolicited parenting advice to a stranger...that kind of crosses a line for me. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone stepping in if you choose to give your child a swat on the butt (which as far as I know, is legal.) So I think the same respect should be given for other parents choosing their own style of discipline (or lack thereof as the case may be.) 

I see parents doing things all the time that aren't necessarily the things I choose to do. But I would never step in and tell them anything. It's not my place. I would only step in if I saw actual abuse.

As for a spanking being effective...that may be true for SOME children. But not all children respond to the same types of parenting. Even children in the same household often need to be dealt with in different manners based on their age and personalities.

Not to mention, meltdowns are typical and normal behavior for children of a certain age.  They call it the "terrible two's" but for my son, the time he had the most number of melt downs was probably from age two to three.  They were related to periods of developmental growth and from the reading I did into the issue at the time, I  understood them to be caused, at least in part, to the child being overwhelmed with mental and physical growth spurts.  My son had a killer melt down once in Target and I just had to leave a cart full of stuff and carry him, kicking and screaming, out of the store.  Incredibly embarrassing of course.  Then once we got to the car, I could not get him buckled into his car seat, so I put the childproof locks on so he could not open the door and I sat in the driver's seat while he kicked and screamed for what felt like an eternity in the back seat.  At intervals, I would tell him that we would get going once he let me buckle him in.  Eventually he tired out, I buckled him in, and we went home.  No punishment.  Poor kid was exhausted.  I learned to always - ALWAYS - have water and some crackers or snacks in the car, in my purse, in the diaper bag.  Melt downs were often associated with him being hungry too.  Anyway, not to write a novel here, but I chose to ride the storms out, comfort him when it was all over, and then move on.  He's a pretty good kid and I get a lot of compliments from people who deal with him, so I think he turned out okay even though I didn't punish him for having tantrums.  I think the reason I gravitated toward this approach is likely because I don't like feeling controlled by others, or having rules rigidly enforced on me, so I had a hard time with the concept of demanding instant obedience from my own child.  It probably helped that I also chose the "non-church" route - so no worries about making my kid sit through an hour or two of church service quietly

Yep...tantrums are very much a part of toddlerhood. Kids of a certain age just can't control all of the things they are feeling and they often don't understand those feelings. It's completely unreasonable to expect a 2 year old to act like a perfect angel at all times.

When I see kids throwing a tantrum at the store...I don't really bat an eye. Kids of ALL ages will throw tantrums. It's not really acceptable behavior, per se. But it's a bit more acceptable the younger they are, in my opinion. 

Don't get me wrong...if I see a 10 year old throwing a fit and then the parent rewarding them...I may nudge my husband in an "eek!" sort of fashion. But really, it's not my problem.

[SportsgalAnnie]

Was anyone else kept on a leash in public as a child? I never got in trouble for much beyond a "Sassy Mouth" and Rolling my eyes

[ksgranola1]

Exhaustion fuels a lot of these temper tantrums, too. I see parents dragging a kid thru the mall by the arm, who has walked twice as many steps as they have, for who knows how long & I do believe sometimes parents forget they are children. They need a nap, a regular meal, some water & rest.

[bingbangboom]

We use 123 magic, and it works even during tantrums. Always ask how he is feeling and why, how to fix it ect when its over. We have to interevene sometimes if things become physically dangerous for my son or others, ( thank god for bubbles, ipad, and only once a physical hold) Although we have a very large preschooler with autism so our methods may seem unusual to outsiders. 

I grew up in the south and was pretty insistent that I wouldn't hesitate to spank my kids if they needed it, especially if I had boys.

Now that I'm a mom, I can't fathom hitting my guys. Time outs and "the look" seem to work really well for our family, even though my dude is different and behaving well in public is a big challenge, we get complemented on his behavior a lot.

[KSmom]

Was anyone else kept on a leash in public as a child? I never got in trouble for much beyond a "Sassy Mouth" and Rolling my eyes

I wasn't, but when my 3rd son was born, my mom gave me one for my 2nd son, then  3 years old. He was SUPER active, he tried so hard to obey, but he was easily distracted and would often just wander off. I only used it once and he hated it so much, that just the knowledge that it was in the diaper bag and if he wondered away, he would have to wear it, was enough to keep him from exploring under the clothes racks in Target!!

[EmmieJ]

I agree that quiet obedience in a child of a certain age is an unreasonable expectation (Hence why we can all agree that blanket training is repulsive). When my niece was in her terrible twos and had a tantrum at home, she would throw herself on the ground in front of the front door (always in front of the front door, regardless of where in the house her tantrum originated) and scream it out. Much to the displeasure of my brother's dog, who would promptly run off to find a new place to nap, as the floor in front of the front door is typically his favorite place to lounge. Any attempts to console her during one of these outbursts would be met with a dramatic plea of "Don't look at me!" Her parents would just quietly laugh about it in the room around the corner until she was done crying it out. This child is now a ridiculously sweet and well behaved four year old. I'm not sure if I had a point to this story other than that these tantrums were really, really funny.

When a young child is going through a tantrum that they cannot control - when it happens not because they are being "bratty" but because they are completely overwhelmed - it's actually pretty hurtful to hear or see their parents laughing at them.  If you think about the times when you're overwhelmed by life's demands, when you might break down and cry or have an adult melt-down - would you like it if your loved ones snickered quietly away at you on the other side of the room?  Or would that make it even worse? 

I have the unfortunate reaction to stress sometimes, in that I will smile.  I'm not happy, I'm not enjoying the stressful situation, but for some reason, it's either cry or smile.  My son would always get more upset when I would accidentally smile when he was very upset - and it bothered me too!  But yes, those outbursts usually have to run their course and I do think just letting the child sort of wear him or herself out is often the way to go, but be nearby to make sure they don't hurt themselves, and be ready to offer comfort when it's over, along with something to drink and eat, and then move on. 

[ClaraOswin]

We bought one of the animal backpack leashes and brought it to Disneyland with us. But our son was only about 16 months and stuff slightly unsteady on his feet so we only used it for a minute and decided it wouldn't work anyway. I bought a wrist one when he was a few months older but still didn't get the concept of holding hands. We basically used it once at an outdoor shopping area. We still made him hold our hands but it was "back up" in case he slipped away. He is dang fast and we were right by the street.

When my son throws a tantrum because he's unable to do something he's trying to do or because he can't find the words (he doesn't talk)...I typically hug him until he calms down. I know this style probably makes some parents cringe. But it works for us.  

[nickelodeon]

Was anyone else kept on a leash in public as a child? I never got in trouble for much beyond a "Sassy Mouth" and Rolling my eyes

Me! Shortly afterwards I got in the habit of barking and licking my sister's face so my parents retired the leash. ~true story~

[EmmieJ]

Now that im older I can see the results of my raising ( spankings not time outs) and can see how the time-out kids act. I'm a firm believer in a well deserved smack on the backside. If there's some 5 year old shrieking like a banshee and kicking/screaming in the grocery store, I politely point the parent to the bathroom where they can take care of their child. Be it a spanking or just somewhere to calm down, they need to know their behavior is unacceptable. Spankings are quick and effective.

I was also raised in the 'proper south' during times that neighbor parents and other authority figures could swat my tail of I acted up and my parents weren't around. It gave me a healthy respect for authority as well as consequences. Honestly I plan to raise my children under the same rules. That being said, I do not condone blanket training in any way nor spanking under 2 years old. Also condone use of 'the rod'. A spanking to me is a firm swat on the bottom no more than 2-3 times.

I would encourage you not to tell other parents how they should parent their child.  It's probably just a matter of time before you say something to a parent who will ream you out for interfering, and that won't be a pleasant experience for anyone.  Would you like someone to step forward and "politely" tell you not to spank your child?  Or would that offend you deeply?

And if anyone (family member, friend or stranger on the street) had ever laid a hand on my child, and took it upon themselves to discipline him, I would have lost it.  In fact, something like that did happen once.  My son was playing outside with a friend, and a neighbor lady had a friend over (also a woman), who did take it upon herself to "correct' my son verbally.  When I learned what happened, I marched over and told her that if she ever had a problem with my son, to bring her concern to me, but that she was never to tell him what to do or take it upon herself to correct him.  I was livid and she could see that I did not appreciate her interfering into my business one little bit.  I won't say all the names I was calling her in my mind, but you can probably guess they weren't very polite.

[notfundy]

https://www.healthcare.gov/young-adults/children-under-26/   LOTS of good info in plain English esp for 20-somethings facing their first independent health insurance decisions. 

Yes, Jill could be on JimBoob's insurance (if he indeed has a regular insurance plan) until she is 26 even if married.  Interesting aspect of the ACA (Affordable Care Act/ObamaCare)!    Many interesting aspects that the kneejerkers shouting "REPEAL OBAMACARE" at every turn may not even know are PART of the law. That, and no pre-existing condition exclusion and no lifetime limits on coverage (used to be common to have a $1million limit, easy to hit it with a preemie or with an organ transplant).

I highly doubt the DuggarsDillards/et al are covered by any plan he may have had as a state legislator; he was not there long enough to be "retired" from his job there, for example.  Of course, Derick was covered by WalMart but couldn't be bothered to keep that job along with probably good benefits.  

 

 

[Karma]

I bought a leash for my son when he started walking, because as soon as he started walking, he started running away.  Trips to the shops were a nightmare.  I only used it a few times though, because he just lay down  on the ground whenever I put it on.  

My son was a very difficult toddler. Nothing has changed much except his size.  As I carried him screaming out of the shopping centre a few times, I did get the look, or comments from people.  I would smile sweetly and say "would you like him?" 

When my kids were older, about 7 and 10 maybe, and I had to take both of them grocery shopping, they would often start arguing.  Many's the time I left a trolley full of groceries in the shop and marched them back to the car and drove them home.  Eventually I realised I was only punishing myself, as i would have to go grocery shopping late at night when DH got home.  My next tactic was to start singing in the supermarket - not too loudly, but enough to embarrass them.  They stopped arguing every time, and I got my groceries done.  Win!

[Bad Wolf]

I like the singing. Clever idea.

[bingbangboom]

Was anyone else kept on a leash in public as a child? I never got in trouble for much beyond a "Sassy Mouth" and Rolling my eyes

We have used one for our oldest. He craved freedom and was active, and a runner. Gave him the freedom he wanted but gave me the safety I felt was necessary. However, we don't use this anymore obviously seeing as how he is almost 5 years old. He seem to like it pretty well, he never thought it at least 

I don't know if I'll use it for my youngest as he can be much more chill than his brother was, but we shall see!

[Bad Wolf]

It might be cultural. It used to be pretty common in England where people walked to the shops a lot. I put one on my grandson here and got a lot of nasty comments that he wasn't a dog. I liked it it gave him some freedom, and I didn't have to worry about him letting go of my hand and running in front of a car. Whatever works is good.

[EmCatlyn]

Was anyone else kept on a leash in public as a child? I never got in trouble for much beyond a "Sassy Mouth" and Rolling my eyes

I don't know how old you were when you were "on a leash" but both my kids were early walkers and they each, in turn, wore a little halter with a sort of leash attached from around age 10 -18 months and a Velcro wrist band attached to a spiral cord after that until they were around 3 whenever we went to places (like a mall) where they could become distracted and wander off.  It gave them more range than just holding our hands, and reduced our fears for their safety.  I never saw it as an instrument of control or discipline.

[singsingsing]

I remember my little sister being on a leash at least a couple of times. I think they gave up on it because she got away anyway, though. I have a very distinct memory of her running full tilt through the mall, the leash trailing along behind her.

[MyMilkshake]

I bought a leash for my son when he started walking, because as soon as he started walking, he started running away.  Trips to the shops were a nightmare.  I only used it a few times though, because he just lay down  on the ground whenever I put it on.  

My son was a very difficult toddler. Nothing has changed much except his size.  As I carried him screaming out of the shopping centre a few times, I did get the look, or comments from people.  I would smile sweetly and say "would you like him?" 

When my kids were older, about 7 and 10 maybe, and I had to take both of them grocery shopping, they would often start arguing.  Many's the time I left a trolley full of groceries in the shop and marched them back to the car and drove them home.  Eventually I realised I was only punishing myself, as i would have to go grocery shopping late at night when DH got home.  My next tactic was to start singing in the supermarket - not too loudly, but enough to embarrass them.  They stopped arguing every time, and I got my groceries done.  Win!

Embarrassment became my weapon of choice also. It's quite effective!  lol 

[JillyO]

This discussion makes me so very thankful that beating your child is not allowed here in Germany.

[EmmieJ]

Embarrassment became my weapon of choice also. It's quite effective!  lol 

One of the things I remember about the show Roseanne was how she and Dan would not hesitate to embarrass their kids and it made me laugh.  I sometimes kid my son that if he doesn't do something I want him to do, I might just be waiting in the school parking lot when the school day ends, and start yoo-hooing at him and calling him sweet pea or lovey.

[SilverBeach]

this is one reason why sharing tooth brushes is very strongly discouraged.  Lots of families do it but the dental community is very much against it. 

Now that is something I never heard of, sharing a toothbrush. I grew up in a no-frills environment due to lack of money, but we sure had our own toothbrushes.