Jill Duggar Dillard Pt 7 - Y'all Wanna Pay for My Vacation?

[bella8050]

I don't have kids yet but I definitely will not be using any sort of physical punishment on them. I was spanked once when I was around 1...my dad did it and didn't realize how hard it was for someone so little and I flew across the floor. My mom said it scared him so bad and he felt horrible and said never again. I still grew up with manners and respect for others. I will never understand the rationale behind it other than "it works."  I have friends with kids who are on opposite sides, and with the ones that use spankings, I see kids that go to swat right back at the parent, same with yelling. My friends that talk with their children about whatever is upsetting them, or ignore the tantrum seem to recover a lot quicker and I don't feel like crawling into a hole while watching them discipline their kids.

Back when I was in college I dated someone who used to drive me crazy with his eating habits, he would inhale his food and drink so fast it was ridiculous. After we had being going out for awhile I finally brought it up and said why don't you take your time, we're not in any rush. He apologized and said it was a bad habit because when he was younger, his parents would set a timer for he and his sister to eat dinner. If they didn't finish by the time the buzzer went off they got smacked on the hand by a ruler.  They were not fundies, just control freaks. Which carried over to many aspects of their lives. The sister rebelled and moved out as soon as she hit 18.  My ex stayed unfortunately and I swear he was never able to fully relax. One of the reasons I ended that was because there was no way I wanted his parents to be grandparents to my kids.

[twinmama]

I went to a Target with 2 floors once. It was so weird. We had to send our cart up on a special escalator thing. It was somewhere in California but I can't recall exactly now. It was probably 10 years ago or so.

http://livingmividaloca.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/20111125_094919.jpg

Target in LA on Santa Monica is 2 floors, and you have to pay to park there. I hated that place.

[FakePigtails]

One reason I'm against spanking that I haven't seen mentioned yet (could've missed it tho) is that I wouldn't want to teach my children (especially a daughter) that it's normal for someone who loves you to hit you. 

[AngelGirl8811]

I don't have kids and I always feel really bad for the parents who are clearly so embarrassed that their child is throwing a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. There's not really much that you can do, kids will act how they act, they have their own agenda. My parents were good with me for the most part, my Mom wanted to spank and my Dad believed in time outs and being "put in the room until I behaved." In other words, I could scream until I got tired and then when I was a human being again I could join them. I don't think that there is a place for spanking, hitting isn't the answer in most cases, just settle them down and then once the tantrum is done, go on with life. Children will always have their tantrums and it will always be at the worst time possible, I think for the most part parents have to roll with it. Good luck to all of you who are parents, I'm sure you're doing an awesome job, to those who judge...put yourself in that parent's shoes, it's really hard! 

[Exposedknees]

Adults hitting children for any reason is wrong. I was spanked as a child and still have issues with the way it made me feel.

"Training" ( NOT BLANKET!) is right. I never, ever, hit. As a young parent of toddlers, sitting at your spot and eating your food at a table was the norm in my home. If you couldn't sit there-time out on the stairs. When my girls were little we went to restaurants like McDonalds, or a cafeteria. They were expected to sit in their seats, eat their food, and behave. If they didn't they got to go sit in the car with a parent while others finished their meal. Grocery stores involved sitting in a cart, or walking with your hand on the cart. Tantrums outside of the home resulted in leaving-right away.  Yes! it's inconvenient but part of the parenting deal.  We took them to kids theatrical shows- matinees, museums, and outdoor festivals. Good behavior was expected and rewarded.  The key is age appropriateness  It is worth the effort! By the time my daughters were 3 or 4, they understood how to behave in public without being hit-ever. Kids learn by doing-"training"-so to speak. Very early on I was asked why my girls were so well behaved and how could I take them to see CATS, The Nutcracker Ballet, go on a cruise ,, or even just out for pizza....My response was that they like to DO STUFF! So were they "trained"?? I think they were. They succeeded because they were expected to sit at McDonalds and behave at a really young age. This resulted in them being able to sit at a real restaurant when not much older. They understood the expectation. So my advice is - don't have your groceries delivered. Get back on the horse....take your toddlers out and expect them to behave within their abilities. If there's a tantrum- leave. Try again another day. My daughter threw a fit at McDonalds when she was 2 because she wanted to go to the playland. The rule was that you eat first. A tantrum happened. I put all the food and happy meal toy on the tray and into the trash. We went to the car. She could not believe it. There was NEVER another tantrum at a restaurant. Your children are worth the investment. Give them the tools to understand how to behave in public, model good behavior, expose them to things, then you're not stuck at home either. Tantrums happen...but not forever.

 

[ClaraOswin]

One reason I'm against spanking that I haven't seen mentioned yet (could've missed it tho) is that I wouldn't want to teach my children (especially a daughter) that it's normal for someone who loves you to hit you. 

Exactly. I can't imagine these children growing up and thinking it's okay for their boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse to hit them in the name of "love." Disgusting.

As for "training"...I suppose it's just semantics. I prefer to use the word 'teach' instead of 'train.'

[choralcrusader8613]

I was spanked as a kid. However, it was nothing close to a beating; it was a couple swats on the butt, and it was generally because I'd put myself in actual peril (ran out into traffic, tried to stick metal scissors into the outlet) or I'd really hurt someone else. I was also considered too young to be reasoned with (I was at oldest 5 or 6), and my parents knew that a couple swats on the butt was better than sharp words for me personally.

I never associated my parents spanking me with my being allowed to hurt someone else, because my parents were teaching me a lesson, while I was generally reacting in rage and anger in a very inappropriate manner. However, I also see the viewpoint of the no-spanking contingency, and I can see where a kid might think that that is okay. FTR, my parents were much more on the no-spanking side than spanking for various reasons, and timeouts/no TV type punishments were more their speed.

Honestly, though, I'm not fond of spanking. I prefer to teach discipline to kids other ways, such as timeouts or other age-appropriate punishments. I just struggle with, if I'm able to have kids of my own, what I'll do with kids who are way too young to be reasoned with but still do things that are dangerous. I don't want to spank, but I was the kid who figured out at age 2 that those outlet covers come off, so childproofing was about useless for me.

[singsingsing]

I don't really have a problem with a couple light swats on the (clothed) bum, if that's really all it is. I still wouldn't do it myself, but I don't think it's abuse or anything close. The problem is that so often spanking is NOT a couple light swats on the butt. For my grandma, it was. She insists she spanked us occasionally (she even has it written in one of her journal entries: 'I spanked [sister's name] because she tried to get into the oven.' Haha) but it was nothing.

My dad, on the other hand, spanked us and it basically was a beating. He'd get angry, chase us around the house, make us pull our pants down and then keep hitting us until we were sobbing. It was scary and humiliating. It did absolutely nothing to promote a loving relationship, it was not discipline, we learned only that our father was associated with pain and embarrassment, that he was unpredictable and not to be trusted. Neither of us grew up to have a good relationship with him, sadly. My relationship with him is all right now, but only because I'm an independent adult who set clear boundaries. He stopped spanking when we were no longer little kids, but the damage was done. If I ever have kids I wouldn't even trust him enough to leave them with him, even though he's otherwise a non-violent, decent human being. Unfortunately for many people, this is what spanking means.

[choralcrusader8613]

 

As for "training"...I suppose it's just semantics. I prefer to use the word 'teach' instead of 'train.'

I also prefer the word "teach". Training just makes me think of an animal you teach tricks to, and humans are not animals in that baser sense. Parents give their kids instruction and lead them to become better thinkers so they can in turn become independent adults.

I don't really have a problem with a couple light swats on the (clothed) bum, if that's really all it is. I still wouldn't do it myself, but I don't think it's abuse or anything close. The problem is that so often spanking is NOT a couple light swats on the butt. For my grandma, it was. She insists she spanked us occasionally (she even has it written in one of her journal entries: 'I spanked [sister's name] because she tried to get into the oven.' Haha) but it was nothing.

My dad, on the other hand, spanked us and it basically was a beating. He'd get angry, chase us around the house, make us pull our pants down and then keep hitting us until we were sobbing. It was scary and humiliating. It did absolutely nothing to promote a loving relationship, it was not discipline, we learned only that our father was associated with pain and embarrassment, that he was unpredictable and not to be trusted. Neither of us grew up to have a good relationship with him, sadly. My relationship with him is all right now, but only because I'm an independent adult who set clear boundaries. He stopped spanking when we were no longer little kids, but the damage was done. If I ever have kids I wouldn't even trust him enough to leave them with him, even though he's otherwise a non-violent, decent human being. Unfortunately for many people, this is what spanking means.

singsingsing, I'm so sorry that your dad treated you that way. Parents are supposed to protect their kids, not make the kids terrified of them

[twinmama]

One reason I'm against spanking that I haven't seen mentioned yet (could've missed it tho) is that I wouldn't want to teach my children (especially a daughter) that it's normal for someone who loves you to hit you. 

Agreed, that is a scary thought. My biggest reason (other than I don't WANT to hit my kids) is that I can't logically tell them they can't hit each other, if I am hitting them.

My dad, on the other hand, spanked us and it basically was a beating. He'd get angry, chase us around the house, make us pull our pants down and then keep hitting us until we were sobbing. It was scary and humiliating.

I'm so sorry. That sounds terrifying. Even when my kids are at their absolute worst and I have nothing left, I can't imagine doing that to them. The only time those thoughts even entered my mind was when I had postpartum depression, and even then I was able to realize it wasn't the kind of parent I wanted to be and I needed help before I actually did it.

[pnwgypsy]

Most recent instagram picture shows derrick with braces. He didn't have those before, did he? Maybe what they are actually doing is medical tourism?

[ClaraOswin]

Most recent instagram picture shows derrick with braces. He didn't have those before, did he? Maybe what they are actually doing is medical tourism?

 

He got them a few days or a week or something after Izzy was born. You can actually see them in some of the talking heads in the special birth episode.

[SledCat]

My parents, who always said they only spanked "for extreme offenses" and never "in anger" (according to Biblical principle), spanked us for failing to turn off a light switch. We had been told several times to turn off the light switches when we left the room. I always resented that punishment.  So did my sibling. It was humiliating. Just another spanking anecdote.

[Kelsey]

My mother used to carry a wooden paddle that she had custom made with extra holes in it so that it would hurt more. I do not have children but if I did, I would not spank them. (Or allow my mother to watch them)

 

Eta: I was not raised in any particular religion. My mom identifies as Christian but I am UU Atheist.

[foreign fundie]

My hometown has two Targets - one is a single level, the other has two levels.

This is a town, not a city, and both have been there a while. I honestly didn't realize people hadn't seen these before.

We used to live near a large store with several floors and the trolly escalators. When we were on one of them my kid suddenly threw up, all over the escalator and the groceries. My husband took out the dripping groceries one by one at the check-out and held them while they were scanned. (No one else would touch them:) And I still think about all that puke going round and round on the escalator. I don't know how you can possibly clean that.

[MakeItSo]

the spanking talk also makes me think of the many times when as kids we were told that the only reason the kid at the playground is mean to you is because they like you and that's why they tease you...way to go teach your kid that being pushed around and physically/verbally abused is THE way to show that you care/have a crush on someone. It's always bothered me when I heard that as a kid. 

[somanybooks]

I saw the new picture of Derick and Izzy.  It looks like Iz doesn't have any teeth yet. At seven months old, shouldn't he have a couple teeth by now?

[candygirl200413]

I got spanked once, and my parents come from a culture where that's the main way they learned how to discipline. Then once my dad spanked me, and being the terror child that I was I hit him back. He never did it again, instead him and my mom talked to us and told us what we did wrong. Myself including my siblings all turned out well mannered adults,

[ClaraOswin]

I saw the new picture of Derick and Izzy.  It looks like Iz doesn't have any teeth yet. At seven months old, shouldn't he have a couple teeth by now?

I just looked at my old pictures. My son had no teeth at 7 months.  And I have to say...looking at the photos, I kind of miss that goofy/gummy smile.

ETA - I just looked...and my son's first tooth didn't pop through until he was a week shy of 9 months old.

There's a pretty wide range for when teeth come in.

[foreign fundie]

 

Honestly, though, I'm not fond of spanking. I prefer to teach discipline to kids other ways, such as timeouts or other age-appropriate punishments. I just struggle with, if I'm able to have kids of my own, what I'll do with kids who are way too young to be reasoned with but still do things that are dangerous. I don't want to spank, but I was the kid who figured out at age 2 that those outlet covers come off, so childproofing was about useless for me.

Our toddler also had this magical attraction to sockets. As she did not seem to understand 'no' and she was very determined to inserts things in the sockets, we decided to give her a hand slap when she tried again. She was shocked, but immediately tried again. I slapped her hand again and she cried... and tried again. And again. In the end I strapped her in the high chair for her own safety. She just sat there, slapping her own hand and crying. It made me cry too. I still wonder what went through that little head.

[MatthewDuggar]

I'm not condoning spanking and can't really comment as I do not have children but...  My mother would give us a crack with a yard stick when we were legitimately being insufferable brats and really pushed it.  My father just used his hand.  I personally don't feel traumatized by it as an adult and I seriously hate violence of any kind now.  What does bother me from time to time regarding my childhood were the few times we were emotionally abused.  Those incidents were far more rare than anything physical.  It's interesting how the non-physical stuff can really mess you up.

[formergothardite]

Our toddler also had this magical attraction to sockets. As she did not seem to understand 'no' and she was very determined to inserts things in the sockets, we decided to give her a hand slap when she tried again. She was shocked, but immediately tried again. I slapped her hand again and she cried... and tried again. And again. In the end I strapped her in the high chair for her own safety. She just sat there, slapping her own hand and crying. It made me cry too. I still wonder what went through that little head.

Did they not sell those socket covers that are a bitch to get out(seriously there was one outlet that my husband and I got one in and it was so hard to get out that we just stopped using that outlet) where you lived? Just curious if that is something that isn't available everywhere.

I hit my oldest daughter once when she was a toddler. I felt awful and she was just stunned that I had hit her. 

Emotional abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse. Parents need to learn how to teach children in a way that doesn't hurt them and, sadly, a lot of times it is hard for parents to learn better methods. Kids shouldn't have to recover from childhood. 

[Gimme a Free RV]

Leaving the present discussion for a moment:  how many of us think it's about time for another Dillard family flight back to Arkansas, given the ever-growing Joshly fiasco? You know, they gotta be there to support family, right?  I would LOVE to have their frequent flyer miles. 

[VelociRapture]

Leaving the present discussion for a moment:  how many of us think it's about time for another Dillard family flight back to Arkansas, given the ever-growing Joshly fiasco? You know, they gotta be there to support family, right?  I would LOVE to have their frequent flyer miles. 

Honestly, I don't know if they really have the option of going back now. They've already made it abundantly clear in the media that they will be there for several months and they're received so much flack for their frequent trips..... but this IS the Dugg - I mean, Dillards, of which we speak. So who the fuck knows.

If I were them, I'd want to stay in Central America though - away from the main drama. It's not like they'd be of any use back home anyways. To be fair, they aren't much use in Central America either. But, hey, at least it looks gorgeous down there!

[Gimme a Free RV]

Seriously, though,  they go back home to see family more often than I do, and mine live two hours away by car.