Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[Funwithfundies]

Sadly, the lack of knowledge can continue after the wedding night. I had a friend in college whose mother (an Irish immigrant) had no idea how the baby was going to come out of her body until the nurses informed her when she arrived at the hospital in labor. Yes, seriously.

[garciarodrigez]

m.eonline.com/news/697594/the-duggars-where-are-they-now-after-josh-duggar-s-scandals-get-updates-on-him-anna-jill-and-jessa

Just found this. It says Anna is with her mom. That's a surprise to me.

Edited because part of my post was irrelevant after I re-read the article.

Edited again cause I'm just dumb sometimes. Lol.

[Cancersurvivor1974]

:) Yeah, that must be why some women in the past were not told anything at all--so they wouldn't run away. :) They found out on the wedding night, when their husbands asserted their marital rights.

True stories: Around 1950-60 (in the Tampa/St Petersburg area) the aunt of one of my friends (aged 21 or so) went to the wedding night thinking that all that happened on the wedding night was kissing and cuddling. :roll: She ran away the next morning to her sister ( my friend's mom) and refused to go back to her husband for a week during which the husband had to court her and promise to go slowly.

Loretta Lynn, in her biography tells a story of not knowing what was going to happen either. (But she was 14, so less odd, I suppose.)

One of my aunts by marriage told her daughter, when she announced her engagement, that there were "certain unpleasant physical aspects to marriage that a woman had to endure to please her husband and to have children." My cousin assumes that this is all the preparation her grandmother gave her mom (around 1948) but that the grandmother did it on the eve of the wedding while her mom wanted to give her a little more warning.

(My cousin didn't need it, but I guess it was a nice thought.) :wink-kitty:

My parents are approaching 80. I'm seeing a similar cultural issue from that era. As a teen in the 80s, my mom told me that she had no clue what was happening to or with her body when she physically birthed my sister in late 59. My dad wasn't even there (for any of us. He got to be home in bed asleep...) . Anyway, she was so scared & alone with strangers poking her in the hospital. She didn't even feel safe asking them questions. That sounds horrible. As an adult, it breaks my heart....

At the same time, I really wish that would've led to her telling us something about sex or our bodies. Nope. That's still a total taboo. Several topics are but that one especially. The only random comments I got as a teen implied that sex was not worth doing. Mom would mention that men only had 1 thing on their mind. All men, including my dad. That made any association dirty & sinful, much less enjoyable. She didn't like it, so I wouldn't either.

Needless to say, I didn't experiment much....

[Chicken bones]

m.eonline.com/news/697594/the-duggars-where-are-they-now-after-josh-duggar-s-scandals-get-updates-on-him-anna-jill-and-jessa

Just found this. It says Anna is with her mom. That's a surprise to me.

Edited because part of my post was irrelevant after I re-read the article.

Edited again cause I'm just dumb sometimes. Lol.

Sooo, Jill is not pregnant again, I hope? She and the pregnant Jessa are wearing the same skirt in different recent pics.

Poor Anna. While it's nice she is able to go home to her mama, her parents are really not doing her any favors by keeping her committed to such a shithead. Even if she can "forgive" him, she never will be able to trust him. That sounds like such a depressing future.

[missegeno]

Sadly, the lack of knowledge can continue after the wedding night. I had a friend in college whose mother (an Irish immigrant) had no idea how the baby was going to come out of her body until the nurses informed her when she arrived at the hospital in labor. Yes, seriously.

Oh wow, that is so horrifying. I can't even imagine.

[ClaraOswin]

I have a hard time believing Anna would go to Florida without all of her kids (M1 and M2 were getting free donuts with the Duggars today.) Maybe I am wrong though.

[MakeItSo]

I have a hard time believing Anna would go to Florida without all of her kids (M1 and M2 were getting free donuts with the Duggars today.) Maybe I am wrong though.

exactly my thought, too! I wonder if, since JBoob is her headship, while Smuggar is away, he could say "you can leave but the kids are staying"? (horrifying thought).

[garciarodrigez]

I thought something was fishy with the wording of the article at first reading but convinced myself it probably meant Anna was in Florida with her parents.

Staying with her mom could mean a lot of things with the way the Duggars tell a story. I just didn't get the impression they are in Florida i guess. But it does say she isn't in Arkansas. And as mentioned above, would Anna leave her kids behind?

Just sounds odd to me and I can't put my finger on exactly why that is yet.

[nastyhobbitses]

My parents are approaching 80. I'm seeing a similar cultural issue from that era. As a teen in the 80s, my mom told me that she had no clue what was happening to or with her body when she physically birthed my sister in late 59. My dad wasn't even there (for any of us. He got to be home in bed asleep...) . Anyway, she was so scared & alone with strangers poking her in the hospital. She didn't even feel safe asking them questions. That sounds horrible. As an adult, it breaks my heart....

At the same time, I really wish that would've led to her telling us something about sex or our bodies. Nope. That's still a total taboo. Several topics are but that one especially. The only random comments I got as a teen implied that sex was not worth doing. Mom would mention that men only had 1 thing on their mind. All men, including my dad. That made any association dirty & sinful, much less enjoyable. She didn't like it, so I wouldn't either.

Needless to say, I didn't experiment much....

Maybe it's a generational thing, but I (born in 1991) got a very general sex talk when I was around 7 or 8, and my mom was very open with me about sexuality and gave me a lot of books to read about my body and what changes I would experience as I grew up. My parents let me watch R-rated movies and listen to very risque 70s comedians when I was really young, so they used those as jumping-off points to talk to me about sex, alcohol, and drugs (I remember in Hebrew school I thought stoning was someone getting killed by being forced to smoke too much marijuana; my parents had to explain the difference between stoning and getting stoned). Perhaps I experimented with some sexual stuff too early (I remember my friend taking topless pictures of me when I was 13 -- we thought it was funny and weird then, but now it's just weird), but in general I associated sex with good things and didn't really see it as a bad thing as long as both people doing it wanted to do it. When I lost my virginity at 17, I was honestly really underwhelmed because I knew everything that was going to happen and my boyfriend (lost his virginity at the same time) didn't really know how to make it fun for me other than kiss me a lot. I think my parents having grown up during the sexual revolution (and my grandma being an elementary school teacher who studied psychology) probably informed the way they talked about sex and sexuality with me and how I viewed sex and sexuality.

[Ais]

Sadly, the lack of knowledge can continue after the wedding night. I had a friend in college whose mother (an Irish immigrant) had no idea how the baby was going to come out of her body until the nurses informed her when she arrived at the hospital in labor. Yes, seriously.

My MIL was the same when she gave birth to her first born (my hubby), this wasn't in the dark ages either, he is only 34!!! When she was in labour her mother told her it was time to go to the hospital and to make sure she said her prayers!!!

[AmazonGrace]

I don't think it sounds too odd. She's probably got her hands full with the the tiny baby in tow and if she's sleep deprived, depressed and feeling fragile, traveling alone with the whole bunch of kids might have felt exhausting and leaving them for some time with the Duggars might have seemed like a good idea. They might have more fun than with a mom who is at the end of her rope, and it's not like they subscribe to the school of thought that mom and only mom can take care of toddlers. None of her own kids are old enough to start buddy parenting but plenty of other options in the extended family.

I'm sure she wouldn't completely abandon her children but the article didn't say how long she was planning to stay with her mother.

[St.Clara]

I thought something was fishy with the wording of the article at first reading but convinced myself it probably meant Anna was in Florida with her parents.

Staying with her mom could mean a lot of things with the way the Duggars tell a story. I just didn't get the impression they are in Florida i guess. But it does say she isn't in Arkansas. And as mentioned above, would Anna leave her kids behind?

Just sounds odd to me and I can't put my finger on exactly why that is yet.

Maybe Anna is staying in a small cheap motel somewhere close to Josh´s rehab, visiting him as often as possible in order to make sure there is no lack of godly sex and to protect him from Satan´s temptations. Her children (except the baby) would not be there because they´d be horribly in the way (and horribly bored), but of course, she cannot stay there by herself, and so her mother would be serving as a chaperon.

Horrible thought, no doubt :o , but would unfortunately fit with everything the article says:

"He is still in rehab," a source told E! News exclusively. "And Anna is still by his side supporting him."

"She isn't in Arkansas," the source told E! News. "She is getting support from her family. She is staying with her mom."

(Note the difference: "She is getting support from her family." - "She is staying with her mom." - If she were staying with her family, they´d probably have said it. And why would Anna´s mom leave her family if there was not a good reason?)

[Marissap]

My favorite part of the article is when the "source" says that josh is the "elephant in the air". hahaha

Is that a duggar source making a mess of a metaphor??

[garciarodrigez]

Maybe Anna is staying in a small cheap motel somewhere close to Josh´s rehab, visiting him as often as possible in order to make sure there is no lack of godly sex and to protect him from Satan´s temptations. Her children (except the baby) would not be there because they´d be horribly in the way (and horribly bored), but of course, she cannot stay there by herself, and so her mother would be serving as a chaperon.

Horrible thought, no doubt :o , but would unfortunately fit with everything the article says:

(Note the difference: "She is getting support from her family." - "She is staying with her mom." - If she were staying with her family, they´d probably have said it. And why would Anna´s mom leave her family if there was not a good reason?)

I've had similar thoughts as to them holed up with her mother in an out of the way spot for awhile. As far as weird wording,I mean why not say she is in Florida with her parents?

[St.Clara]

I've had similar thoughts as to them holed up with her mother in an out of the way spot for awhile. As far as weird wording,I mean why not say she is in Florida with her parents?

Exactly! Would be so much simpler - if she were, that is...

[Rubyroo]

I feel so bad for the older M kids. First, their dad goes away. Now their mom went away. It must be so confusing but at least they have playmates and sister moms.

[anon710]

When I first read about this, was all "yay" inside.

But my bubble quickly got popped when I realized that if she was, in fact, with her parents; that would be no help to her at all. (I'm sure we are all in 100% agreement that Ma & Paw Keller aren't going to support her in divorce/leaving; etc)

Then I read all of your replies, and it makes absolute sense that she could be hold up next to Sumgg's rehab, with her mother, lest the two eldest.

I know this must be a very hard time for her. I just had hope, for one minute, they (Duggs & Kells) would stop sheltering her. It isn't protecting her, or making her stonger. IMO it's making her more vulnerable and being set up like a bowling pin (to get knocked down; it gets to wearing thin)

little Grateful Dead quote there, couldn't help myself

At the very least no harm is done from giving her a break from the 2 eldest kids (who may go with her later.) But as mentioned up thread, this must be hard on them too, first dad goes away, then mom.

But I still can't shake the feeling that she is being sheltered to the point of being held hostage.

[Maggie Mae]

I think they are trying to not be specific as to protect everyone's privacy as well. If they said she was in FL, people in the area would go there and wait to try and photo her grief and sell it to radar or people or tmz.

As awful as everyone is, I don't think they want cameras on Anna right now. She might learn that she has power. She might say something that's not been run up the proper channels of management.

Did she make any friends in D.C.?

[MakeItSo]

I think they are trying to not be specific as to protect everyone's privacy as well. If they said she was in FL, people in the area would go there and wait to try and photo her grief and sell it to radar or people or tmz.

As awful as everyone is, I don't think they want cameras on Anna right now. She might learn that she has power. She might say something that's not been run up the proper channels of management.

Did she make any friends in D.C.?

Oh God, I hope so. I think I vaguely remember on the show her and Smuggar having some "dear friends" over for dinner one time and they hauled a couple of kids with them, too. Then again, it's a "reality" show, so those people could have been hired actors for all we know. :roll: being facetious here. I really hope she made some friends there. I mean, it was bad enough she packed up and left everything to follow Smuggar to a new big city, so he can live out his dreams (career-wise and recreationally), while she just stayed at home all day and did "school" with the littles.

[xtwheeler]

Did she and Josh and the M's attend a church in DC? I'm assuming so, at least. (Josh seems far to lazy and disengaged to lead worship at home.) Of they did, I hope Anna had a chance to at least make some friends among the other women/moms there. Sometimes when you're in crisis what you really need is a voice of reason from outside the situation. Church friends are about as far removed from the situation as possible while still being mildly acceptable as friends.

Personal aside: when I was 29 my husband of five years filed for divorce without telling me, and then held onto the papers for a month (while we were living as married folk). Anyway, one night he sprang the divorce on me by waking me up late at night and shoving them at me. Turned out he had been pretty openly dating a co-worker. I even found her underwear in my bed at one point. Anyway, my BFF's lived literally across the street. I left with the clothes on my back and a six pack of beer. They took me in, they let me snot and sniffle all over them. They were there the next morning when I woke up only to have the situation crash down on me anew. Between them, my school friends, and my work friends, they essentially worked out an XT management calendar. I was basically in some friend's custody all the time. They helped me eat, they listened to me rage, they let me sob, they put me to bed, they got me to work. THEY did for me all the things I couldn't do for myself. I just went through the motions in a fog for almost a year. I have zero doubt that they collectively saved my life and my sanity. They 100% had my back, no conflicted loyalties, and we're just there for me. I was a 29 year old lawyer with no children and a very broad experience in life. I almost died.

When I compare that to what Anna's situation is, it breaks my heart. She has no one who is just Team Anna (maybe her brother, but sounds like they're not in touch). She has 4 children, who don't stop needing their mom just because her life has fallen down around her. She must feel like the loneliest person on earth. Surrounded by people who don't give a shit about her well-being, just that she falls in line. No one to validate her feelings. No one to offer perspective. No one. It is awful to think about. I sure hope her god is responding to her, because he's about the only friend she's got.

Sorry for the long personal detour.

[zebra #13]

Maybe it's a generational thing, but I (born in 1991) got a very general sex talk when I was around 7 or 8, and my mom was very open with me about sexuality and gave me a lot of books to read about my body and what changes I would experience as I grew up. My parents let me watch R-rated movies and listen to very risque 70s comedians when I was really young, so they used those as jumping-off points to talk to me about sex, alcohol, and drugs (I remember in Hebrew school I thought stoning was someone getting killed by being forced to smoke too much marijuana; my parents had to explain the difference between stoning and getting stoned). Perhaps I experimented with some sexual stuff too early (I remember my friend taking topless pictures of me when I was 13 -- we thought it was funny and weird then, but now it's just weird), but in general I associated sex with good things and didn't really see it as a bad thing as long as both people doing it wanted to do it. When I lost my virginity at 17, I was honestly really underwhelmed because I knew everything that was going to happen and my boyfriend (lost his virginity at the same time) didn't really know how to make it fun for me other than kiss me a lot. I think my parents having grown up during the sexual revolution (and my grandma being an elementary school teacher who studied psychology) probably informed the way they talked about sex and sexuality with me and how I viewed sex and sexuality.

Yep, some of us lucked out--I was born in 1940, and my parents were open and informative. I don't remember one talk, rather it was just addressed as it came up. By six or seven I was that awful neighborhood kid who told all the rest about it, lol! I was in college and eight months preggers when I got to watch the health 101 baby birthing movie, and tried to figure out how to reverse the whole project (I mean, I knew, but the graphics--jeepers). . . . Maybe because both sets of grandparents were pretty awful and/or absent, my parents made it their life jobs to learn how to be better at it than what had been done to them.

Funny aside, at 8, my son asked me what sex was. I was a little bumfuzzled cause I was damn sure I'd told him before. But went ahead and explained it again. He looked at me with eyes full of wonder, and said, "But Mom, that's how you make babies!" Ah, yeah, well I forgot to tell you that it's also enormous fun. . . .

[missegeno]

Did she and Josh and the M's attend a church in DC? I'm assuming so, at least. (Josh seems far to lazy and disengaged to lead worship at home.) Of they did, I hope Anna had a chance to at least make some friends among the other women/moms there...

I think I remember hearing something about them attending that church in DC where attendance is essentially mandatory for political figures (maybe just the conservative ones, I'm not sure). But I remember cheering for her to make church friends there. I sure hope she did!

[ClaraOswin]

If Anna did go elsewhere with her mom...it makes me sad for the M kids that are left behind. Even if it's just for a week....I, personally, think it's bad to ditch the kids when their father is also gone.

[tcach]

Even if she did have friends in DC I think it would be really hard on her to go back there for comfort and solace. Her DC life was an elevation in status and returning will be a reminder of what she has lost and what she is unlikely to regain. Not to mention it will bring back memories of a time in her life when she thought she had a very good life and marriage when in reality she was married to a lying cheater who didn't really care about her.

[tcach]

Even if she did have friends in DC I think it would be really hard on her to go back there for comfort and solace. Her DC life was an elevation in status and returning will be a reminder of what she has lost and what she is unlikely to regain. Not to mention it will bring back memories of a time in her life when she thought she had a very good life and marriage when in reality she was married to a lying cheater who didn't really care about her.