Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[socalrules]

I wonder why pickles were chosen as the family favorite food. Were they trying to get a pickle endorsement deal? I admit to loving pickles to the point that I stock up on them when I go to Disneyland (awesome pickles) but the Duggaes treat pickles almost like a lifestyle choice. They truly push the pickles. Did Gothard decide that pickles are more godly?

[happy atheist]

Pickle orgy:

"Wearing Pink to the Parking Lot Pickle Orgy" is our newest post count title! :dance:

[missegeno]

I don't know what their deal is with pickles either. But I did date a Jewish (reform) guy from NYC for a while and his family was similar about pickles. They explained it as a Jewish thing, but I was never sure how much was religious, regional, or familial. Michelle talks about how she craves pickles when pregnant, and thinks that explains why her kids all pop out loving pickles. It's still super weird how they worship pickles like they do Gothard. But they aren't the only ones.

[lascuba]

I don't know what their deal is with pickles either. But I did date a Jewish (reform) guy from NYC for a while and his family was similar about pickles. They explained it as a Jewish thing, but I was never sure how much was religious, regional, or familial. Michelle talks about how she craves pickles when pregnant, and thinks that explains why her kids all pop out loving pickles. It's still super weird how they worship pickles like they do Gothard. But they aren't the only ones.

I think they just genuinely love pickles, and TLC picked up on that as a family quirk they could exploit, so the Duggars started talking about their love for pickles all the time, and people wanted pictures of them eating pickles, because that's A Duggar Thing, and it got weird really fast.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I wonder why pickles were chosen as the family favorite food. Were they trying to get a pickle endorsement deal? I admit to loving pickles to the point that I stock up on them when I go to Disneyland (awesome pickles) but the Duggaes treat pickles almost like a lifestyle choice. They truly push the pickles. Did Gothard decide that pickles are more godly?

I think it's because pickles are super cheap at Aldi so the kids were told to love them.

[MatthewDuggar]

I think it's because pickles are super cheap at Aldi so the kids were told to love them.

Actually I think a few of the kids don't like pickles. They had a chart or something about it. Then there was the homemade pickle fail episode.... Also the "All pickle" restaurant in Japan....

[Jessa's Feet]

I also think it has to do with Michelle craving pickles while pregnant but only because she most likely kept them in the house a lot for herself while she was pregnant. Since she was pregnant all the freaking time = lots of pickles in the house = them becoming a staple. Kids seeing mom eating pickles since she's pretty much always pregnant, they want to try them, they realize they like them, and you've got a whole mess of Duggars that now like the pickles. Which would explain why some don't like them. They tried them and simply just didn't like them, lol.

Good thing she didn't have some weird ass craving like anchovies covered in caramel sauce crusted in potato chips and served over ice cream.

Or pica.

[church_of_dog]

Or pica.

That would be the weirdest TLC crossover show ever...

[sophie10130]

This pieces of the heart thing bothers me so much. Here's my question in regards to that: If the love you have to bestow is finite so that when you love once you have less love the next time...does that mean the more kids they have the less they love each of them? I mean it stands to reason if we have a finite amount of love that my few kids each get a far bigger percentage of mine than they would if there were 19 of them.

Now, I was taught that love expands which is why love for child can't possibly diminish a parents love for the others. The theory was that my parents loved us individually and had distinct relationships with each of us which differed from kid to kid and at different times for each of us. The love was constant but the relationships would go through changes because ..."kids are like people that way" - ™

I gave away more pieces of my heart (among other things) more than I care to admit before I settled down and I have to say if any of those guys are hanging on to those pieces I'm shit out of luck since I can't send someone to repo my heart since I don't remember a lot of names. And the longer term guys who I do remember...pretty sure they circular filed me decades ago.

Now I'm wondering about my major heart pieces. In college I had two major boyfriends, lets call them Goofus and Gallant. Goofus was intense and we'd break up a lot, so during some of these breaks I'd be seeing Gallant, who was a very nice guy...too nice for me to appreciate him at the time. I married Goofus quite young and we had 10 years and some awesome kids...and a divorce. A couple of years post divorce I ran into Gallant (who I hadn't seen since college) and we have now been married 10+ years.

While part of me wishes I didn't lose so much time with Gallant, in all honesty I can't regret my time with Goofus. Our babies are just who they should be and our love was very real. I just prefer to think of it as something not having to be forever to be critically important. And I honestly don't think it would have lasted if I had opted for Gallant first since I had a lot of growing up to do before I could appreciate his more low key approach to life.

So I have those heart pieces away, but got them back? And then lost the other ones - but kept a little because I still care about him as the father of my children? So the next time my ex blows into town I'll have former and current headships sit down and negotiate for missing heart pieces just so we can keep them all in one location. Maybe get a safe deposit box since I can't be trusted to hang onto them.

It's been a while since a fundy tried to convert me, but it used to happen fairly often. I should have just told them about my life and then they wouldn't have bothered - I could never fit into their little boxes so it's easier to just leave me to my sinning. For some of us cutting the lawn in a bikini wasn't the most scandalous thing we've ever done.

I never understood the heart pieces thing either, even when it was taught to me at a young age.

We are taught that a relationship is reciprocity and cooperation and compromise. So if that were really true and I gave my heart piece to my boyfriend, didn't I also get a heart piece back from him to make me whole again?

I always thought it could be more useful as a tool to teach people not to go into relationships where one person is asking for too much or one person isn't as into the relationship as the other person. So you give a huge heart piece (you put a lot into the relationship), but you only get a tiny piece back (they basically just do nothing) and your heart isn't whole anymore.

[artdecades]

I don't know what their deal is with pickles either. But I did date a Jewish (reform) guy from NYC for a while and his family was similar about pickles. They explained it as a Jewish thing, but I was never sure how much was religious, regional, or familial. Michelle talks about how she craves pickles when pregnant, and thinks that explains why her kids all pop out loving pickles. It's still super weird how they worship pickles like they do Gothard. But they aren't the only ones.

Pickles have been a huge part of Ashkenazi Jewish cuisine for centuries. Its not religious, regional, or familial, its a cultural cuisine. In fact, Jews are credited with popularizing pickles in America.

http://www.pbs.org/food/the-history-kit ... y-pickles/

http://www.jta.org/2012/07/08/life-reli ... ck-a-punch

(not breaking news articles)

Not that this has to do with the Duggars, but I love talking about Jewish things.

[Sunshine1491]

I never understood the heart pieces thing either. I have a vague memory of being ridiculously confused in Sunday School lo those many decades ago when the youth minister tried to do a heart pieces metaphor. I thought he meant that Jesus stepped off the cross and did surgery at night to cut up our hearts and that's how people lost heart pieces.

That was around the same time I quit going all together.

[Toothfairy]

Apparently for kids the heart divides and multiples. For crushes and dating it's sinful and your giving pieces of it away. I've never heard anyone say on their wedding day I kept my whole heart for you. :think:

[EmCatlyn]

Apparently for kids the heart divides and multiples. For crushes and dating it's sinful and your giving pieces of it away. I've never heard anyone say on their wedding day I kept my whole heart for you. :think:

I suspect that the business about giving pieces of your heart is a coded way of talking about loss of ignorance/innocence. For these fundies, it seems, all knowledge is suspect. They truly believe that ignorance is better than experience, especially for women.

If you fall in love and start dating and then change your mind, you will enter the next relationship with a knowledge you didn't have before...

This is true even if all you did was hold hands. Falling in love gives a "rush" and stirs desire even if you don't act on that desire. Plus, dating involves getting to know another person, and that knowledge makes you a little more experienced and less pristinely ignorant. :wink-kitty:

[AmazonGrace]

The way Anna was talking it sounded like she first found out what sex is, just before the wedding and it was good because if she'd ever heard of it before she might have tried it out.

Does God really think you deserve brownie points for remaining so pure and godly if it's only because you were never told that you could be having sex instead?

[Trynn]

If I was told about see just before my wedding, there would be a runaway bride and a canceled wedding. I would've been super freaked out if I wasn't expecting that and all of a sudden I'm told a guy is going to expect to be able to do WHAT to me?

[ClaraOswin]

Wait...so are we to assume that until right before her wedding...Anna didn't even know what sex was? Like...penis in vagina....she had no clue?! That's not possible is it??

[EmCatlyn]

If I was told about sex just before my wedding, there would be a runaway bride and a canceled wedding. I would've been super freaked out if I wasn't expecting that and all of a sudden I'm told a guy is going to expect to be able to do WHAT to me?

:) Yeah, that must be why some women in the past were not told anything at all--so they wouldn't run away. :) They found out on the wedding night, when their husbands asserted their marital rights.

True stories: Around 1950-60 (in the Tampa/St Petersburg area) the aunt of one of my friends (aged 21 or so) went to the wedding night thinking that all that happened on the wedding night was kissing and cuddling. :roll: She ran away the next morning to her sister ( my friend's mom) and refused to go back to her husband for a week during which the husband had to court her and promise to go slowly.

Loretta Lynn, in her biography tells a story of not knowing what was going to happen either. (But she was 14, so less odd, I suppose.)

One of my aunts by marriage told her daughter, when she announced her engagement, that there were "certain unpleasant physical aspects to marriage that a woman had to endure to please her husband and to have children." My cousin assumes that this is all the preparation her grandmother gave her mom (around 1948) but that the grandmother did it on the eve of the wedding while her mom wanted to give her a little more warning.

(My cousin didn't need it, but I guess it was a nice thought.) :wink-kitty:

[Rubyroo]

If I was told about see just before my wedding, there would be a runaway bride and a canceled wedding. I would've been super freaked out if I wasn't expecting that and all of a sudden I'm told a guy is going to expect to be able to do WHAT to me?

That happened to my mom :( the first guy she slept with explained it to her and her response was, "you're going to put what WHERE!?!" She had all Catholic schools, no sex or health education. She didn't even know what her period was until she got it, she thought she was dying. It breaks my freaking heart. This sort of thing shouldn't happen to women. Ever.

[missegeno]

The "girls can't even know what sex is until marriage" thing is discussed a lot on that reality show "My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding." The moms get together and laugh about how traumatized their girls will be. They have the idea that boys/men are supposed to go out and sleep around and learn all about sex so that they can teach their good pure gypsy wife on their wedding night. The culture portrayed on that show is in turns exactly like the Duggars, and exactly opposite.

[apandaaries]

I thought so too, he seemed to be trying to kiss her each time.

What about towing the line from Anna's father? I guess that only meant protecting his daughter's purity before marriage. Sleeping around on her after is OK.

The Merry-Go-Round, and Anna is riding sidesaddle! Oh my dog.

She really is like a sheltered little naif about to be sacrificed, isn't she? Standing around ironing (WTF?) while Josh pontificates on their godly courtship.

All these stories about women about to be married finding out about marital duties JUST before the big event breaks my heart. Those reactions ("You put WHAT WHERE?!?") sound exactly like what my daughter said. At age 4.

[Dandruff]

I find it hard to believe Anna didn't have a clue, since she participated in prison ministry and must have heard some awful stories. She may have lacked context if her mom really didn't tell her anything though.

[doubleT]

If Anna had no inkling of sex/foreplay or what occurs between a *married* man and wife until right before her wedding, I wonder if she even knew what to think when she was told that Josh had made some bad choices concerning 4 sisters and a babysitter when he was 14 & 15. For example, if Josh admitted to her that he had acted out sexually during that time, would she even know what he meant? Maybe she thought he just didn't say "please" and "thank you" when the girls made dinner or washed his clothes?

[ShepherdontheRock]

If Anna had no inkling of sex/foreplay or what occurs between a *married* man and wife until right before her wedding, I wonder if she even knew what to think when she was told that Josh had made some bad choices concerning 4 sisters and a babysitter when he was 14 & 15. For example, if Josh admitted to her that he had acted out sexually during that time, would she even know what he meant? Maybe she thought he just didn't say "please" and "thank you" when the girls made dinner or washed his clothes?

Well, maybe she was told it was "mild, innappropriate, touching." And it could have meant he held their hands when they didn't want to be held.

[MakeItSo]

Oh the matchy-matchy shirts and crunchy poodle perm...

One thing I had completely forgotten about was how much some of the Duggins but especially Anna and Jill, emphasize the "aaaaaaaand". It seems to be their version of "umm" or "uh". It shows to me that they only have a couple of language models in their lives who all feed off of each other. Shows in their vocabulary, too. (and we all here like to snakily quote all those over-used expressions and words here :) )

[Cancersurvivor1974]

Of course not. Jesus is a rock star. He had lots of friends, went to weddings and brought the wine, hung out with the poor, sick and prostitutes, and actually cared about others. What if seeing Jesus' picture makes them want to be more like him? Chaos may ensue.

I do think it's interesting that fundies don't seem to spend a lot of time talking about Jesus' or his acts. I think he isn't considered hardcore enough for him. He is likely too liberal for them.

I've thought about that point too. To them, Jesus was far too "liberal"?! Excellent point!