Amy Jordan Duggar Jordan Duggar King Duggar Wedding Part 2

[bingbangboom]

Covenant marriages get my brain in a weird circular logic path that makes me dizzy.

If you want a covenant marriage you don't need a covenant marriage because of your beliefs in the permanence of marriage. If you don't want a covenant marriage you need a covenant marriage otherwise your lack of belief will have you divorcing every Tuesday.

I guess I see how they are legally enforceable because they are basically additional terms in the contract which don't violate any laws.

But states decide the criteria to grant marriage licenses and divorces - why should the state be involved in couples wanting to legislate their personal beliefs on divorce? If couples truly believe the extra obligations which go into a covenant marriage then great - they can live by that code. The only reason you'd ever need legal teeth behind that code is if someone no longer held those beliefs and wanted out.

So a couple marries intending it to last a lifetime, as most people do. Some time down the road they decide that they no longer want to be married to their spouse. The law rightfully allows for this complete 180 on the forever together thing.

But since this only needs to be legally binding if one partner wants out, the reality is our legal systems in 3 states are willing to use publicly funded resources to help some people try force their spouses to remain married to them against their will. And barring forced continuation of the marriage making a painful situation worse by requiring that the government pass judgement on whether one's reasons for no longer wishing to be married are "moral enough." Oh - and causing any resulting divorce to be far more costly and contentious than necessary. Upping the hostilities in a divorce is always super healthy for the kids, as is being raised in a home where one of their parents is legally compelling the other to stay.

Nothing says love like an emotional hostage situation backed by the courts. I guess chaining them to the bed was too subtle.

I know I'm one of the six people on FJ without a law degree :wink-kitty: but how is this not a use of government resources to enforce religious beliefs?

I had this exact conversation at my headship this morning! (He was sort of listening at best)

It is really baffling, isn't it?

[church_of_dog]

Well said, Buffy.

And don't forget that any two people can create any legal agreement they want between themselves (well, bounded by basic laws, certainly) -- so it doesn't have to be officially a part of their marriage agreement, but they could certainly sign a legal agreement stipulating xyz between them.

Of course all the circular logic you presented still applies, in that you don't need it because you don't need it, until you do need it, in which case you wouldn't have gotten it in the first place. :shock:

But I do believe that part of why they want the covenant agreement is for self-righteous purposes -- meaning they want it even if they know for sure they won't need it.

Kindof the inverse of a prenup, now that I think about it. Rather than protecting you if you want out, it screws you if you want out... :think:

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Well said, Buffy.

And don't forget that any two people can create any legal agreement they want between themselves (well, bounded by basic laws, certainly) -- so it doesn't have to be officially a part of their marriage agreement, but they could certainly sign a legal agreement stipulating xyz between them.

Of course all the circular logic you presented still applies, in that you don't need it because you don't need it, until you do need it, in which case you wouldn't have gotten it in the first place. :shock:

But I do believe that part of why they want the covenant agreement is for self-righteous purposes -- meaning they want it even if they know for sure they won't need it.

Kindof the inverse of a prenup, now that I think about it. Rather than protecting you if you want out, it screws you if you want out... :think:

Exactly, it is a reverse prenup. It may not be the height of romance to ask your beloved to sign documents protecting your money from their greedy clutches should the marriage shit the bed its freaking Paris in springtime compared to, "Baby, sign this...in case you ever think about leaving me it's a fun legal reminder that I'm not letting you go anywhere without a fight."

Maybe instead of covenant marriages the courts could hand out little tracts with " if you love something set it free, if it comes back to you it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was" on them. Pretty ubiquitous saying, but it would new to the fundies. They don't seem to get the concept.

[xtwheeler]

Dear God. I'm pretty sure one does whatever one feels is right for one's own wedding, and that will vary widely based on culture, location, etc.

Holy shit, people. If we could all just relax about weddings and what goes on (or doesn't go on) at them, I feel like the world would be a much calmer place. In the grand scheme of things, it's a couple hours to a day of your life. Unless someone is doing something horribly rude and insulting (which for the record does not include putting the registry info on the invite, not putting the registry info on the invite, having a potluck reception, having a dollar dance, having a honeymoon fund, wearing something you think is tacky, specifying a dress code, not specifying a dress code, accidentally running out of food, etc.) - who honestly cares? There's so much in this world to actually be upset about, why make weddings one of those things?

And for everyone who takes such great offence at the slightest hint of a 'gift grab', guess what, I've got fantastic news for you - no one's forcing you to bring a gift! If you feel like it would be rude not to, fine, get something inexpensive. Some people are really selfish. Some people are just thoughtless. Sometimes you're the one who's misunderstood the situation. And often it's hard to tell the difference. So get a gift, don't get a gift, but stop making it into such a big deal. All you're doing is adding petty, pointless drama to your life.

I think what you are not taking into consideration is that the essence of good manners is to make people feel comfortable and welcome. When I skipped the dress code on my invitations, I knew that the effect would probably be a few dudes showing up in jeans or shorts. They did. I welcomed them warmly and went on about my life.

I just happen to have a hangup about manners, and I'll be the first to admit, I've got a stuffy set of them. I know my standard isn't necessarily anyone else's. I've never criticized someone about their invitations, nor have I refused to abide by the requested or implied dress code.

Then again, I think wearing white to a wedding is fine, so WTF do I know anyway?

[ClaraOswin]

I am looking at all of the professional photos from Amy's wedding here...

benfieldphotography.net/blog.html

The photographer asked the Duggar girls to be silly in this one....poor Jenni is clearly over this shit...

3.bp.blogspot.com/-ISqoASUTMlM/VfNFTYZAYjI/AAAAAAAAHso/ke58WEOZIpg/s1600/amy-duggar-wedding-photos-portraits-06.jpg

[calimojo]

Photo Snark Alert:

Jinger looks like she has tanorexia here. She is such a pretty girl, but the excessive tanner looks terrible.

Jessa's dress would have been so cute on it's own. That thing hanging out of the bottom looks stupid.

Jenny looks completely over it. Joy looks gorgeous and Poor Anna, having to play to the camera like that.

[Bunnybutts]

The modesty leggings under the little girls dresses are ridiculous looking imo.

[chris]

Photo Snark Alert:

Jinger looks like she has tanorexia here. She is such a pretty girl, but the excessive tanner looks terrible.

Jessa's dress would have been so cute on it's own. That thing hanging out of the bottom looks stupid.

Jenny looks completely over it. Joy looks gorgeous and Poor Anna, having to play to the camera like that.

Jessa's expression is priceless! It's all "Ta-freaking-da! Look at me! I'm all pregnant!"

The leggings are horrible, not just visually, but comfort wise. Josie is the only one who I could see why they needed them (dress is pretty short on her).

[Kak]

The photo in question.

[iweartanktops]

Jessa's expression is priceless! It's all "Ta-freaking-da! Look at me! I'm all pregnant!"

The leggings are horrible, not just visually, but comfort wise. Josie is the only one who I could see why they needed them (dress is pretty short on her).

Jana is so beautiful! Also, she looks like she doesn't give a damn about taking the photo.

Re: leggings under the little girls' dresses, I think it's because they play a lot so they don't want their undies showing... Not sure though. Also not necessarily defending it. Personally I'd rather just let my daughter play in pants or whatever the hell she wants (if I had one)!

[chris]

Jana is so beautiful! Also, she looks like she doesn't give a damn about taking the photo.

Re: leggings under the little girls' dresses, I think it's because they play a lot so they don't want their undies showing... Not sure though. Also not necessarily defending it. Personally I'd rather just let my daughter play in pants or whatever the hell she wants (if I had one)!

I agree about Jana, but the color of that sweater distracts from her dress

[MakeItSo]

4.bp.blogspot.com/-9_uzf84yo7A/VfNFXJe0H9I/AAAAAAAAHtI/4IVZNtKfu40/s1600/amy-duggar-wedding-photos-portraits-13.jpg

uh Amy, so unChristian! Uncle JBoob and Uncle Gothard are so disappointed. Blessa probably loves it because it makes her Godly wedding look better in Fundie Kingdom.

[FundieWatcher]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9_uzf84yo7A/VfNFXJe0H9I/AAAAAAAAHtI/4IVZNtKfu40/s1600/amy-duggar-wedding-photos-portraits-13.jpg

uh Amy, so unChristian! Uncle JBoob and Uncle Gothard are so disappointed. Blessa probably loves it because it makes her Godly wedding look better in Fundie Kingdom.

I like that picture! (It is more unFundie than unChristian)

[Rajah061014]

(snip)

Nike! Nike! Nike!

Beautiful picture, even if you can tell it's definitely staged.

[lascuba]

Anna, Jana, and Jessa, as well as most of the little girls, look so done in that picture. It's like they didn't want to be there at all.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Why are the two oldest little girls wearing leggings? Their skirts are very long and they don't need them. You can see the biggest girl on the end wearing them, the hemline of her leggings peeks out just a tiny bit around the hemline of her skirt. Poor girl probably scratched herself silly throughout the wedding and reception. :(

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Just FYI: The photographer specifically asked that his work not be reposted. Copyright violations can get FJ in trouble.

I don't want to go all hand-slappy, but it's a really big deal to me to respect work, so please don't put the pictures here. It's his work and at a minimum, he should be getting the clicks.

[ClaraOswin]

What the heck is a naked cake? Does it not have frosting or something? It looks weird.

I think overall, the photos are nice. I think it's kind of funny that he can't post the better group shot (along with other photos) since he sold them to People Magazine. I mean, good for him for making a buck. But still makes me laugh that he has to post the photo with people blinking.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

What the heck is a naked cake? Does it not have frosting or something? It looks weird.

I think overall, the photos are nice. I think it's kind of funny that he can't post the better group shot (along with other photos) since he sold them to People Magazine. I mean, good for him for making a buck. But still makes me laugh that he has to post the photo with people blinking.

I'm horrified that Google confirmed that a naked cake is indeed a cake without outer frosting. Apparently it's a thing.

That is an abomination and I don't know how a marriage will make it if it starts out with such deprivation of frosting.

My first marriage didn't last and we had a gorgeous cake from a fancy pants bakery* but it had whipped cream frosting and I don't eat whipped cream so one carefully forked bite for the camera and I was done.

For my second wedding we had buttercream and he's still here - in the kitchen making me breakfast as I type. So it's scientific fact that frosting is what detemines whether a marriage will last.

*One of my older sisters hated her cake because it wasn't fancy enough (I don't know the details, I was little) and so Daddy's attempt at redemption with mine was super OTT and I hated it because it was ruined with whipped cream. That poor man could not win. If I had it to do over again it would be a wedding cupcake and cookie table.

[lascuba]

Heh, I dislike most frosting/icing so from a taste perspective, a "naked" cake would be perfect for me. But I also like pretty cakes for the pictures. Every notice how the more beautiful the cake, the worse the taste? Or is it just me?

[MichellesCrunchyHair]

Heh, I dislike most frosting/icing so from a taste perspective, a "naked" cake would be perfect for me. But I also like pretty cakes for the pictures. Every notice how the more beautiful the cake, the worse the taste? Or is it just me?

Agreed. To me, if a cake needs frosting to taste good, then it's a shitty cake. Delicious, skillfully-made cake requires no frosting!

[RabbitKM]

I have to say, the professional pics are GORGEOUS. Amy picked a good photographer.

[Fundie Bunny]

Heh, I dislike most frosting/icing so from a taste perspective, a "naked" cake would be perfect for me. But I also like pretty cakes for the pictures. Every notice how the more beautiful the cake, the worse the taste? Or is it just me?

Same here, but mine is because my european raised taste. Fondant is just the worst thing on earth

[Closed Womb]

Same here, but mine is because my european raised taste. Fondant is just the worst thing on earth

I'm in the US and I dislike heavy or overly sweet frosting and think fondant is of the devil. But, my (delicious!) wedding cake had it and I just didn't eat that part.

Naked cakes are having a moment. They usually have frosting between the layers, but not over the whole cake. I think they look okay, but probably taste divine.

[JillyO]

There are beautiful naked cakes out there, decorated with fruit and edible flowers. But I'm assuming Amy wanted a simple, no-frills kind of cake, like her wedding dress. I think it looks fine. Not what I would pick for my own wedding, but definitely not snarkworthy in my book.