Joshley Madison Pt 4: That Pig She Calls Her Husband

[zebra #13]

About Anna's leaving, or not--it took me two full years to get out of my first marriage after I realized it was dead, and wasn't going to miraculously revive. I was 28, had two kids, 6 and 4, and 2/3rds of a college degree. He never cheated, but loved his job better than he liked being either a husband or a father. With my second, where he was having an affair, I was hurt, devastated, but I don't think I would have left if he could have ended the affair. He couldn't and I did tell him to leave. But yanno? I never did get angry at him. Much less: ANGRY!!!!

Also, worth noting I think is that Anna hasn't had a whole year of normal hormones since she married.

And it's really only fairly recently that marriages actually involved one man and one woman and no infidelity. Old testament wives were constantly handing over their handmaidens to their hubbies for one reason or another.

[gemma]

An FJ'er added her as a friend on FB, and may be able to see more posts because of that. Apparently Susanna posted that meme that is a pic of Josh, saying "marriage is between a man and a woman, and your sister and that chick from ashley madison"

Whoa! That was her? I think the meme is great. Thx for filling me in.

[sophrosyne]

Perhaps this has been linked to FJ in the past, but here it is again--fodder for discussion, if not insight: "Why Men Cheat," "one man's unfiltered, unadultered explanation" (published in Esquire, January 2015). The writer isn't a home schooled fundie, but some of his account might jibe with the why (and how) of Josh. (And I'm not offering this for any kind of justification or excusing of cheating--just throwing it out there.)

esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a7075/reasons-why-men-cheat-0410/

[DuggaredOut]

The idea that Josh cheated on Anna because she wasn't willing to have enough sex, or adventurous enough to keep Josh happy is complete crap. Josh cheated on Anna because he is a shitpig.

However, every time someone posts about how Anna should have loosened up, or they must have been sexually incompatible, so of course Josh cheated, it exposes this huge underlying assumption in our culture that if a man cheats, his wife is at fault. She must have been too busy with the kids, or too tired, or didn't keep herself up, or wouldn't do that sexy thing he wanted. Its the same assumption that underlies what the fundies say about how a woman must always be available to her husband to keep him from straying.

People cheat because people cheat. Men seem to get more of a pass because for all the reasons people keep bringing up. But for all we know, Anna was having sex with Josh whenever he wanted, and when he wanted it.

I agree with you 150%. I kept noticing the same thing. And I'll add my own two cents to this point:

A guy can cheat even if his wife is everything he hoped she would be. He can cheat simply because he wants sex with multiple partners.

The sexual activities Josh listed on his profile aren't necessarily activities he wasn't doing with his wife. They're just activities he said he likes and/or would be interested in doing with someone other than his wife. Similarly, the desired traits he listed for a prospective partner aren't necessarily traits he wishes his wife had. They're simply traits he could find attractive in a woman. In fact, many of them are contradictory and couldn't exist in the same person (e.g., tall, short; long-haired, short-haired), which just indicates he's not picky. And that makes sense because he's looking for an affair, not a replacement wife, so he'd want to cast as wide a net as possible to maximize his chances of finding someone.

We don't know why Josh cheated, but implying it was because Anna lacked something seems awfully close to victim blaming. Josh is to blame for Josh cheating. When a marriage breaks down, two people may be responsible for that, but the one who chooses infidelity is responsible for choosing infidelity. And, again, someone can have the perfect spouse and cheat anyway just because they want the novelty. It's a problem in them, not in their spouse.

Personally, I agree with those who think Josh fits the bill as a pathological narcissist. (Google it if you don't know what that is. It might very well change your life.) If he is a narcissist, well, these guys don't love anyone but themselves, and cheating is part of their MO. It wouldn't matter who he married or how long they courted or what their sex life was like. Sooner or later, he'd be dissatisfied and want someone else. And I think that's what we're seeing now.

[blessalessi]

Perhaps this has been linked to FJ in the past, but here it is again--fodder for discussion, if not insight: "Why Men Cheat," "one man's unfiltered, unadultered explanation" (published in Esquire, January 2015). The writer isn't a home schooled fundie, but some of his account might jibe with the why (and how) of Josh. (And I'm not offering this for any kind of justification or excusing of cheating--just throwing it out there.)

esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a7075/reasons-why-men-cheat-0410/

But men don't cheat because they can. Men cheat because they must, because they need to. This is the male struggle. Need compels us to try again.

Meh. Fodder for wiping my arse, more like.

As polabear put it, Josh cheated because he's a shitpig. :disgust:

[RabbitKM]

Whoa! That was her? I think the meme is great. Thx for filling me in.

I don't think she made the meme, just posted it.

[Firiel]

Quoting from previous thread

Part of me loves that this is his reaction...because if I had a brother and my spouse cheated on me, this is EXACTLY how I would want him to react. And I think it's the reasonable reaction of any normal male...So on the one hand, I look at that and think "Yep, *that's* how you're supposed to respond."

But at the same time...as far as supporting Anna goes, if she were to attempt an escape from this sociological cult, I think his approach may backfire. It may take her awhile to reach the point where she feels like she can make a decision, or wants to make a decision...and the Duggars and her parents are likely pressuring her VERY hard to staystaystay and stuff her feelings in a sack. She's not entitled to any of the normal, healthy emotions a betrayed wife would feel - namely ANGER, RAGE, etc. Since he's rushed out to beg forgiveness, the only thing she'll be allowed to express is some sadness, with forgiveness and reconciliation following quickly. So her brother very publicly calling her husband a pig and a prik and using such strong language to call him out ( :clap: :clap: :clap: ) may make her feel even less like she can go to him for support. Her family is likely waging an all-out assault to make sure she feels like he is so far in the "other" camp (of bad guys and heathens) that she cannot dream of going to him for support.

That's what I worry about. I made this mistake with a good friend of mine in college. She was dating a real jerk (and, turns out, an abusive jerk). I made my feelings known strongly and early, and while I did so with the best of intentions, I alienated her by being so steadfast that someone she cared about was a total jackass. I should have been more accepting and less brash with my opinions, even though they did turn out to be spot-on. I hope that her siblings' very justified and very well-intentioned reactions to their jack-ass brother-in-law don't alienate Anna.

[anjulibai]

Perhaps this has been linked to FJ in the past, but here it is again--fodder for discussion, if not insight: "Why Men Cheat," "one man's unfiltered, unadultered explanation" (published in Esquire, January 2015). The writer isn't a home schooled fundie, but some of his account might jibe with the why (and how) of Josh. (And I'm not offering this for any kind of justification or excusing of cheating--just throwing it out there.)

esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a7075/reasons-why-men-cheat-0410/

That guy sounds like an arrogant, disgusting, rationalizing POS.

I bet he and Josh would get along great.

[Artemesia]

If Jill or Jessa did end up in a situation like Anna (which I hope they don't, but hypothetically), I wonder if JB would really come to their aid. If "headship" has really been transferred from the father to the husband, perhaps the warped logic is that the father doesn't have the right to interfer, since his daughter is now the husband's responsibility. If JB and the Kellers have the same ideas about marriage, then it would make sense that the former would also encourage a Duggar daughter in a bad marriage to stick it out like Pa Keller is saying to Anna.

Duggars did not protect their own daughters from Josh. I'm disappointed but not surprised that they are treating Anna the same way.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Perhaps this has been linked to FJ in the past, but here it is again--fodder for discussion, if not insight: "Why MenThis One Sociopathic Woman-Hating Narcissistic Bastard Cheats," "one man's unfiltered, unadultered explanation" (published in Esquire, January 2015). The writer isn't a home schooled fundie, but some of his account might jibe with the why (and how) of Josh. (And I'm not offering this for any kind of justification or excusing of cheating--just throwing it out there.)

esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a7075/reasons-why-men-cheat-0410/

Fixed that for you.

Utter shite from start to finish.

(edited because I left out a word and internet insults are just way less effective when they're missing words ;-))

[LovelyLuna]

Part 4 in how many days? I haven't had time for anyone else lately. Jill R could post that she was already prego with twins and I would never know.

anyhow I still fell bad for Anna. she may stay with him but that doesn't mean she hasn't had a really shitty year. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm glad she has at least two siblings that seam to have a brain. If she stays, and I think she will, I hope its because she wants to not because she is pressured into it.

As for Joshy boy.... I have to say It more like Hanukkah then Christmas. We are getting a number of gifts over multiple days. I can't wait for the finale. :D

I have really enjoyed peoples thoughtful posts about abusive relationships and fundie life. Also 'You are not obligated to do anything about an erection just because it was created in your honor.' best qout ever! I want to embroider it on a T-shirt.

[violynn]

Just curious, where did Daniel and Suzi Keller say Anna needs to leave Josh?

In a muddy ditch? :dance:

[Kate11]

Are the posts from Daniel Keller still on Jessa's facebook? I looked but I couldn't find them.

[anjulibai]

They are still there. I'm surprised she hasn't deleted them already.

[HarryPotterFan]

In a muddy ditch? :dance:

:lol: I like you.

[Mr.Bowie]

They are still there. I'm surprised she hasn't deleted them already.

I suspect she's going to delete the whole post soon - too many comments to cherry pick. Sunday dinner should be over now.

[Artemesia]

I suspect she's going to delete the whole post soon - too many comments to cherry pick. Sunday dinner should be over now.

Jess should just repost that fire and brimstone rant that she posted last week.

[crazysnark]

She posted the meme on instagram not Facebook. She added me today for some reason and I saw it. I tried to post a screenshot but it said the file was too big.

[Kate11]

They are still there. I'm surprised she hasn't deleted them already.

I found them. It took a while to search through all the comments to find them. There seems to still be a lot of people supporting the Duggars . . .

[anjulibai]

I found them. It took a while to search through all the comments to find them. There seems to still be a lot of people supporting the Duggars . . .

It's completely bizarre.

[BabyDilly]

I'm finally caught up again. I'm glad Anna's normal siblings are supportive. I bet Derrick is glad they got the hell out of dodge.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Part 4 in how many days? I haven't had time for anyone else lately. Jill R could post that she was already prego with twins and I would never know.

anyhow I still fell bad for Anna. she may stay with him but that doesn't mean she hasn't had a really shitty year. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm glad she has at least two siblings that seam to have a brain. If she stays, and I think she will, I hope its because she wants to not because she is pressured into it.

As for Joshy boy.... I have to say It more like Hanukkah then Christmas. We are getting a number of gifts over multiple days. I can't wait for the finale. :D

I have really enjoyed peoples thoughtful posts about abusive relationships and fundie life. Also 'You are not obligated to do anything about an erection just because it was created in your honor.' best qout ever! I want to embroider it on a T-shirt.

If my mom were here she'd be so embarrassed that I didn't sanitize the language! "Oh, Buffy really...tell your imaginary friends that live in the computer that I don't usually talk that way! Honestly, sweetie what were you thinking? :embarrassed: " but I think it's awesome that I could share her with you guys and you get her.

She had a really tough life in a lot of ways and was written off as weak and docile and my God she exemplified tha fact that you can be intelligent and still incredibly naive in many ways...she never was quite able to protect and save herself but she did everything she could to try to make us learn from her mistakes. She was able to arm us with ammo she never had.

So anyway you guys made me cry, in a good way. Damn feels - I swore off emotions, but every now and again I fall off the wagon.

[DaisyD]

FYI "You're not obligated to do anything about an erection just because it was created in your honor." Is going into the sex talk I will eventually have with my daughter. Just like "If a girl says she can't get pregnant, run!" went into my son's. (Not from here. That one comes from personal experience...)

[stabbycat]

Is there a timeline of when the social media accounts (including Twitter if you think it's his) started? The only way I could think of Anna being able to get out of the marriage fundie-guilt-free is if his shenanigans started before the marriage, and he never divulged the way he supposedly did the molestations.

[zz22zz]

holy crap I just realized my dad is Josh...so I can predict how this will go for Anna....

First let's compare my dad and Josh

both oldest kids of several (not 19 in my dad's case and my dad to this day, and he ain't young, resents the HELL out of his younger siblings yet talks to them all the time and loves everyone to know they are family and yes he was the golden boy ,15 years older than the youngest)

both married young (my dad was barely older than josh, my mom younger than Anna)

My parents dated about the same amount of time as Josh and Anna

My dad had a failed courtship (well a girlfriend he adored who dumped him)

My dad started cheating on my mom within two years of getting married, probably less and cheated their ENTIRE marriage and often cheated on his long time mistresses on top of cheating on my mom. OVER 40 YEARS until he divorced my mom because a side piece he had for over 30 years cut him off until he did (then she later dumped him.... :D for....drum roll cheating and being creepy towards her grand daughters )

My dad is skevy as all get out with little girls....all my friends thought he was creepy and I remember him always wanting to talk about boy parts and girl parts with me when I was younger (starting about age 2) (by 3 or 4 I figured out he was a creep and started screaming bloody murder each time we were in a room alone...which continued through high school and he STILL would try to touch my thigh hair etc other grooming behavior Pedophiles do) actually younger than that I figured him out, even as a baby my mom says she couldn't leave me alone with him even take a bath because I would scream and cry...I was okay with just my brother or anyone else...but not him)

My dad was very successful in his professional life and a church leader (not a minister, just governing board)

My dad was extremely emotionally abusive (mostly to cover up his misdeeds and to keep his image at work and church) and has been diagnosed a pathological narcissist.

So here how I predict it will wind up.

1. As many have predicted Josh will leave Anna, not Anna leaving him. My mom also believed marriage was for life NO MATTER WHAT (and yes she knew about ALL of my dad's sins shortly after he did them, she always knew and busted him on it) But we might be in for a long wait. My mom STILL wishes they were still married even though she is happily remarried and realizes my dad is a douche, that is how brain washed she is that marriage is FOREVER and she wasn't raised fundie just regular southern Baptist. She was a mess when he left her and begged for him back. And yes she always gave him sex when he wanted their entire marriage so trust me cheating isn't always about not enough sex.

2. <>

One thing is for sure he will NOT change. My dad hasn't and he had a lot of secular counseling the last 30 years. Also it is WELL documented that pedophiles are next to impossible to reform, even "reformed" pedophiles will tell you they should not be with little children.