Joshley Madison Pt 4: That Pig She Calls Her Husband

[Alicja]

all I can say right now is yaaas Daniel! what a great guy. I hope Anna will eventually take his offer and run.

[HuggleMonster]

According to Daily Mail, the sermon Jill encouraged everyone to watch was about sex and forgivness.

One quote

Floyd preached that a husband and wife should maintain 'sexual contact' and keep each other happy or risk an unsatisfied spouse looking elsewhere for gratification.

So they're pretty much drilling it in to Anna that she's at fault.

[ayriel123]

I suspect she's going to delete the whole post soon - too many comments to cherry pick. Sunday dinner should be over now.

Someone posted a screenshot of them on the Jessa Duggar Seewald thread.

[JMO]

I think that they will be together for the short term at least. They have been brought up to stay married and I think they will at least try to in the short term. I also think they will have a 5th child quickly as a way to recommit themselves. :(

[louisa05]

According to Daily Mail, the sermon Jill encouraged everyone to watch was about sex and forgivness.

One quote

Floyd preached that a husband and wife should maintain 'sexual contact' and keep each other happy or risk an unsatisfied spouse looking elsewhere for gratification.

So they're pretty much drilling it in to Anna that she's at fault.

:angry-jumpinganger:

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

[Beermeet]

So, was Lawson's instagram post supporting or hating Josh?

I can't ever decipher cryptic instagram scriptures.

EDIT: Growelly we are one in the same :lol:

I was wondering the same! For or against? Or passive aggressive!?

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Is there a timeline of when the social media accounts (including Twitter if you think it's his) started? The only way I could think of Anna being able to get out of the marriage fundie-guilt-free is if his shenanigans started before the marriage, and he never divulged the way he supposedly did the molestations.

Perhaps...but seeing as he's already "confessed" (translation: I got caught) and "repented" - really the only way Anna will get out of the marriage guilt-free is to shed her fundie way of thinking about marriage.

There's lots of IBLP stuff on the internet about marriage...it will make your stomach turn. If this is where Anna is going for counseling about what to do now that she finds herself in this horrible situation...there is no way she doesn't come out of this feeling like she's responsible.

iblp.org/questions/it-possible-forgive-unfaithful-husband (<--just one example)

iblp.org/questions/if-im-focused-my-husbands-perceived-failures-how-can-i-walk-obedience-god

One thing I'd forgotten about IBLP language is how much they use very generic phrases like "moral failures" (which could be anything from a lustful thought to masturbation to full on adultery/fornication/rape/murder) or "hurt." The second link above, the woman refers to how her husband "hurt our daughter" which means what? He was mean to her? He spanked her too hard? He molested her? It could mean any of those things, or something else entirely, but the point is that in IBLP, all of those things are morally equal. Which brings up something else about fundies in general, and that is their incredibly twisted and warped concept of justice. In the last thread someone asked how parents can disconnect from their primal instincts to protect their children...this is the same thing. These are people who deliberately deny their children care and attention from infancy in the name of "discipline" and inflict tremendous physical pain on them from a young age to train out some imaginary sin nature. When someone in their circle is exposed as a serial molester, sexual predator or an unfaithful jerk - they circle the wagons and preach about "forgiveness" and "grace" with zero outrage for the victims of this person. Its happened with other famous Gothardites too - when one adult male from a formerly prominent IBLP family went to jail for being a child molester (rapist?! I don't know...I never fully wanted to know the details and they're not readily available online) - his family was outraged that he'd been reported...he was the victim in their eyes, not the countless children he'd violated.

These people cannot and will not support the real victims of Josh Duggar - his sisters and his wife and young children - because they have no concept of real justice and their religious dogmas have totally disconnected them from their sense of humanity. I see it in my family too...they're practically reptilian when it comes to their lack of ability to be empathetic with people. It's sick and disheartening.

[Hisey]

holy crap I just realized my dad is Josh...so I can predict how this will go for Anna....

First let's compare my dad and Josh

both oldest kids of several (not 19 in my dad's case and my dad to this day, and he ain't young, resents the HELL out of his younger siblings yet talks to them all the time and loves everyone to know they are family and yes he was the golden boy ,15 years older than the youngest)

both married young (my dad was barely older than josh, my mom younger than Anna)

My parents dated about the same amount of time as Josh and Anna

My dad had a failed courtship (well a girlfriend he adored who dumped him)

My dad started cheating on my mom within two years of getting married, probably less and cheated their ENTIRE marriage and often cheated on his long time mistresses on top of cheating on my mom. OVER 40 YEARS until he divorced my mom because a side piece he had for over 30 years cut him off until he did (then she later dumped him.... :D for....drum roll cheating and being creepy towards her grand daughters )

My dad is skevy as all get out with little girls....all my friends thought he was creepy and I remember him always wanting to talk about boy parts and girl parts with me when I was younger (starting about age 2) (by 3 or 4 I figured out he was a creep and started screaming bloody murder each time we were in a room alone...which continued through high school and he STILL would try to touch my thigh hair etc other grooming behavior Pedophiles do) actually younger than that I figured him out, even as a baby my mom says she couldn't leave me alone with him even take a bath because I would scream and cry...I was okay with just my brother or anyone else...but not him)

My dad was very successful in his professional life and a church leader (not a minister, just governing board)

My dad was extremely emotionally abusive (mostly to cover up his misdeeds and to keep his image at work and church) and has been diagnosed a pathological narcissist.

So here how I predict it will wind up.

1. As many have predicted Josh will leave Anna, not Anna leaving him. My mom also believed marriage was for life NO MATTER WHAT (and yes she knew about ALL of my dad's sins shortly after he did them, she always knew and busted him on it) But we might be in for a long wait. My mom STILL wishes they were still married even though she is happily remarried and realizes my dad is a douche, that is how brain washed she is that marriage is FOREVER and she wasn't raised fundie just regular southern Baptist. She was a mess when he left her and begged for him back. And yes she always gave him sex when he wanted their entire marriage so trust me cheating isn't always about not enough sex.

2.<>

One thing is for sure he will NOT change. My dad hasn't and he had a lot of secular counseling the last 30 years. Also it is WELL documented that pedophiles are next to impossible to reform, even "reformed" pedophiles will tell you they should not be with little children.

ZZ, I am very sorry about your horrible creepy dad and about what you must have endured as a child. You sound very strong and resilient, and you may very well be able to predict how this Josh/Anna matter will turn out.

With that said, I don't think it's right to speculate that any of the little duggar girls have been molested. It seems an invasion of their privacy, of which they have little enough. Also, Josh is many things, but he is not a pedophile, since you have to be an adult molester to be a pedophile.

Here's how I think this will play out: Anna will not leave him this time. She is too young, too brainwashed, too shocked, and her children are just too young. It would seem impossible to her.

However, a couple of years from now, she may discover Josh sexting, or see some suspicious credit card charges (since she will now check the cc bills). She'll think about leaving then, but do nothing. She might read about single mothers online, though, or might look at apartments near her home (my mom did this for years before leaving my dad).

More years will go by. Mackynzie will be older, old enough to be a help, and the youngest will no longer be a baby. Josh will be caught with a prostitute, or she'll get a call from another woman about a paternity test.

Then she'll leave.

The sad thing is, she won't be 27 anymore, she'll be 37 or 40. And that is the curse of being raised by screwed-up parents, is that it takes you many years to do what you should have done when you were young. It takes you many years to realize you are entitled to good treatment, many years to find some self-esteem.

[mfch]

Yeah, based on the Daniel and Susannah thing I think we know how this is going to go.

Anna's parents are pathetic little rats who won't stick up for their daughter.

The Duggars are reminding me ever more of death eaters. They don't give two shits about Anna, they care about their PR and the fact Josh has fucked them all over so badly.

Poor Anna. It's 2015 and I'm making her sound like she has about as much agency as the heroine of a Jane Austen novel.

But if she's too scared to leave and go to Daniel or Sus and I can understand why- she knows what she knows and leaving with four kids including a newborn is horrible to think about, then she's just going to be manipulated into staying with That Pig She Calls a Husband.

I hope she can be brave, and that she realises her brother and sister have got her back and she can get out of there, but I'm not hopeful.

I'm seriously hating Ma and Pa Keller. Butt weasels they are.

Also- to the poster above. Speculating Josh has molested the little girls. Not cool. You have zero proof of that and it's a really unpleasant thing to say.

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	This post sparked an enormous Harry Potter tangent which has been moved here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26862

[chelleinchicago]

According to Daily Mail, the sermon Jill encouraged everyone to watch was about sex and forgivness.

One quote

Floyd preached that a husband and wife should maintain 'sexual contact' and keep each other happy or risk an unsatisfied spouse looking elsewhere for gratification.

So they're pretty much drilling it in to Anna that she's at fault.

I keep remembering the episode where he forgot his lunch and she got in the car to drive into DC to take it to him. WTF?!?! Totally manufactured situation, I know, but representative of their relationship nonetheless. He was there at FRC looking at big boob porn and eating eclairs while she drove through gnarly traffic to make sure he had a healthy lunch. I HATED THAT EPISODE!!!! :pull-hair:

ETA: His DIET was a lie, too!!!!

[16strong]

The way this is playing out, I'm getting chilly just thinking about holidays at the Keller residence this year. :cold:

[gemma]

Is Joy still in El Salvador with Jill and Derick? I keep thinking if she can finagle staying down there another two months, she'll be 18 and maybe she can stay away from the loony bin in Arkansas and live a calmer life with her sis and bil. The more kids out of that house, the better.

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

I found them. It took a while to search through all the comments to find them. There seems to still be a lot of people supporting the Duggars . . .

I am completely floored, not so much by the people who are supporting the Duggars, but those supporting Josh specifically. There's an awful lot of calls for forgiveness.

I especially detested the lady who said some thing loke ".. have you ever lied? You're a repeat sinner too!"

Vomit.

[Sunnyday]

I just can't believe that Jill and Jessa can't get beyond themselves to think of Jinger and Joy. Every time they defend Josh or minimize what happened to them, they force Jinger and Joy to do the same. I mean, what if Joy wanted to confide in someone about what happened. All she's going to get from JIll is, it's all good, all is forgiven. Jill and Jessa are doing their sisters a huge disservice all in the name of I don't know what. Whatever is best for them. :|

[gemma]

According to Daily Mail, the sermon Jill encouraged everyone to watch was about sex and forgivness.

One quote

Floyd preached that a husband and wife should maintain 'sexual contact' and keep each other happy or risk an unsatisfied spouse looking elsewhere for gratification.

So they're pretty much drilling it in to Anna that she's at fault.

Very, very disappointed in Jill. She was one of his victims, too. She's far away, but she can't detach herself. If she can't offer support to Anna, why say anything at all? She somehow needs to show her support for Josh publicly. I really thought she'd keep out of it.

[singsingsing]

Poor Anna. It's 2015 and I'm making her sound like she has about as much agency as the heroine of a Jane Austen novel.

Heroines in Jane Austen novels had a lot more agency than Anna Duggar.

[Ofglen]

I keep remembering the episode where he forgot his lunch and she got in the car to drive into DC to take it to him. WTF?!?! Totally manufactured situation, I know, but representative of their relationship nonetheless. He was there at FRC looking at big boob porn and eating eclairs while she drove through gnarly traffic to make sure he had a healthy lunch. I HATED THAT EPISODE!!!! :pull-hair:

ETA: His DIET was a lie, too!!!!

YES! That reminded me so much of my parents too (not fundie). My mother bending over backwards to help my father and him sitting on his ass doing whatever he pleases. I hate entitled, arrogant men. What struck me about that episode (and I haven't seen it since it aired, so I could be remembering it wrong, but) was that after Anna drove all that way in horrible traffic, Josh didn't even invite her in and show her *proper* thanks for doing that for him! It's not like he had work to do! :angry-banghead:

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

According to Daily Mail, the sermon Jill encouraged everyone to watch was about sex and forgivness.

One quote

Floyd preached that a husband and wife should maintain 'sexual contact' and keep each other happy or risk an unsatisfied spouse looking elsewhere for gratification.

So they're pretty much drilling it in to Anna that she's at fault.

This is not surprising. Most fundies I know follow this line of thinking. Girls get full on raped and it is made oit to be their fault. Men rarely answer for their actions in this world. :evil:

[FloraKitty35]

:angry-jumpinganger:

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

I agree.

[anjulibai]

Very, very disappointed in Jill. She was one of his victims, too. She's far away, but she can't detach herself. If she can't offer support to Anna, why say anything at all? She somehow needs to show her support for Josh publicly. I really thought she'd keep out of it.

I imagine it's a defense mechanism. It helps her cope. Unfortunately, that might not be Jinger or Joy's way of dealing with it, which means they would not get support from Jill.

This makes me think of the episode when Jinger said she wanted to live in the city and Jill chastised her and her told to be content.

That scene is now more disturbing, because Jill has likely said other things like that about what Josh did.

Free Jinger. Free Anna. Free them all.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

all I can say right now is yaaas Daniel! what a great guy. I hope Anna will eventually take his offer and run.

I think it's great that she has other people she loves who are giving her a very different message than she's getting in the cult.

If she isn't able/doesn't want to leave now she knows someone loves her and the M's enough to be angry. Enough to offer a place to stay and the money to do it. I have to believe that even if she can't go, or doesn't want to...even if she may be uncomfortable that they are truth screamers about Josh I have to believe there is some comfort - even if only in her quietest moments - that two people she loves have her back.

I would imagine that even for a true believer the syrupy forgiveness and platitudes, looking for some portion of blame couched in words of support has to be just fucking exhausting. So I'd think there would be solace in knowing the anger and protection is raw and real. Outside of the love between herself and those babies I don't know how many relationships she has that are real like that.

I'm not saying others don't love her and she them - of course they do - but the cult thinking complicates them.

Sometimes what people say to us doesn't land right away. But some statements, for good and bad, can live in our heads and nudge us at various times in our lives. Just because she may not leave now doesn't mean the support from Daniel and Suz didn't land. It could be something she carries with her giving her comfort even if no one watching through the media would ever know that.

Or maybe not. I don't know her, but I know for most people when we're in a dark place and can't fight for ourselves someone else taking up the mantle on our behalf can give us strength.

But good for Daniel. And her parents are fuckers and I hope at some point in their lives they each have a come to Jesus moment (if you'll pardon the expression) where they realize the harm they've done to their kids and I hope the waves of guilt and pain fucking cripple them emotionally.

Seems like the perpetrators of this crap get off so easy.

[ClaraOswin]

I love the title of this thread.

Someone elsewhere said they hope Anna is protected from the unseemly stuff, the details.. but I hope she actually reads the OKCupid and AM stuff and if that turns out to be his twitter sees it. Right from the first words out of Josh's mouth everything is being passed through the grand christian soap operaspeak of SATAN!!!1 vs JEEZUZ. It's a lot easier to talk about how you let Satan take control than it is to talk about how you want to [sexual realities] with [hot wimmenz who are not Anna].

The molestation was no doubt glossed over by the parents to Anna. She needs the nitty gritty of what Josh did and said not some fairy story about how he gave his heart to the devil.

Playing catch up again.

He has a secret Twitter account? Link please!

[ClaraOswin]

You know what bothers me more than Josh cheating? The fact that the Kellers, Jim Bob and Michelle are not protecting Anna. Notice that Jim Bob only married off his girls to men who seem to adore and cherish them. If Ben or Derrick did this to Jessa or Jill, Jim Bob would be the first one there with a moving truck. But they don't value Anna enough to kick Josh out and take care of her and the kids. Why was it okay with Anna's parents that Josh was a molester and now is mistreating her?

Yes, Anna is an adult and she could leave and go to her brother. But I thought the whole point of courtship and their culture was that the father is a protector? No one treasures her (the way the Duggars treasure their daughters) and so she doesn't even know her own worth. It's sad.

I actually don't think so. I bet they'd blame Jessa and Jill just like these seemed to blame them for the molestation.

[chelleinchicago]

YES! That reminded me so much of my parents too (not fundie). My mother bending over backwards to help my father and him sitting on his ass doing whatever he pleases. I hate entitled, arrogant men. What struck me about that episode (and I haven't seen it since it aired, so I could be remembering it wrong, but) was that after Anna drove all that way in horrible traffic, Josh didn't even invite her in and show her *proper* thanks for doing that for him! It's not like he had work to do! :angry-banghead:

I can't remember the details either but it seems to me you're right, that he met her outside to get his brown bag and pretend to be grateful before shooing her off. I realize there might have been parking issues and the kids were with her, but at least give the impression that he wanted her to come inside to mingle with the other adults. It felt SO disrespectful, but then so did a grownass man drinking sweet tea and having to postpone his wisdom teeth removal. Another Josh "oopsie" that everyone had to work around.

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

Yes

Playing catch up again.

He has a secret Twitter account? Link please!

It is only speculated. The name and email address don't actually match. People who were touting it as a confirmed link were wrong. In fact, there's nothing similar except the profile picture - which we know for fact from the real owner - had been stolen and used by multiple fake accounts previously.