Michael (Bates) Keilen Bump Watch

[nolongerIFBx]

6 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

I think they do, Kelly mentioned Wisdom Books somewhere as the basis of their homeschool. I think they also use ABeka, I remember that somewhere Kelly mentioned how Erin was grateful for an ABeka foundation, or something. 

I know there is little (if any) love for the ABeka curriculum on this forum, but my family used the correspondence program and I and my siblings would agree with Erin (to a point) and we all have accredited college degrees. You can just purchase the textbooks and teach your children on your own  (your plans, your pace) out of them, but ABeka also had a program where you had to send in all or a sample (depending on the grade) of your work for ABeka to grade, including recordings of you reading. They set the academic schedule (not that you couldn't vary slightly, but you did have particular dates where work had to be completed for the semester, etc.). All that to say, we were more prepared for college level writing than many of our public schooled peers. The biggest areas needing improvement in their curriculum thirty years ago were foreign languages and science, both because you really needed a knowledgeable instructor. You could take a foreign language if you lived in that country, but if not, they weren't going to hand you a Spanish textbook and let you pass the written exams without being certain that you actually knew how to pronounce the memorized words. That is why the DVD program (ancient though they might be!) is now required for them to be able to provide an accredited diploma today. Not as good as an in-person instructor, but, hey, many of my accredited college biology experiments were actually performed online using a graphic-designed "lab".

Disclaimer: Not leghumping the Bates, but I don't think that the ABeka program- not just use of their textbooks, but the accredited program- is nearly as awful as some might imagine. And some organizations that claim to be accrediting institutions agree: https://www.abekaacademy.org/about/accreditation.aspx . And yes, one of the accrediting institutions, FACCS, is a Christian school accredit-or and I know that not all credits are accepted by every institution in all states, but that is true in many cases.

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

I completely agree, @eandre31. I'm not fundy in the slightest (obv) and when I started learning Japanese I got sick to death of people asking me "why are you learning Japanese? What are you going to use it for? Why bother?" I just thought it looked interesting and wanted a new skill!! I even had one person give me a lecture on how I should learn something more useful. *eyeroll* If Michael wants to learn for the sake of learning, and become a more well-rounded person for it, I say props to her.

(After a few months of people asking me that I eventually just responded with "Why do you go running every day?" or "Why do you knit?", or whatever their hobbies were, or even "Why does anyone do anything?!" it drove me mad!!)

[eandre31]

If I were rich, I think I would enroll in a college and take classes that interested me or just expanded my knowledge in general. Unfortunately, I am not rich and can barely afford to pay off my student loans for my associate's degree. 

Learning is fun! 

[HereticHick]

2 hours ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

I completely agree, @eandre31. I'm not fundy in the slightest (obv) and when I started learning Japanese I got sick to death of people asking me "why are you learning Japanese? What are you going to use it for? Why bother?" I just thought it looked interesting and wanted a new skill!! I even had one person give me a lecture on how I should learn something more useful. *eyeroll* If Michael wants to learn for the sake of learning, and become a more well-rounded person for it, I say props to her.

(After a few months of people asking me that I eventually just responded with "Why do you go running every day?" or "Why do you knit?", or whatever their hobbies were, or even "Why does anyone do anything?!" it drove me mad!!)

You can always tell them that you are learning something new in order to reduce your future risk of dementia. Ask them what they are doing about that.

[bashfulpixie]

2 hours ago, eandre31 said:

If I were rich, I think I would enroll in a college and take classes that interested me or just expanded my knowledge in general. Unfortunately, I am not rich and can barely afford to pay off my student loans for my associate's degree. 

Learning is fun! 

I've always said that if I ever won the lottery I'd split my time between traveling and taking classes.  Alas, no lottery has been won yet.

[nastyhobbitses]

6 hours ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

I completely agree, @eandre31. I'm not fundy in the slightest (obv) and when I started learning Japanese I got sick to death of people asking me "why are you learning Japanese? What are you going to use it for? Why bother?" I just thought it looked interesting and wanted a new skill!! I even had one person give me a lecture on how I should learn something more useful. *eyeroll* If Michael wants to learn for the sake of learning, and become a more well-rounded person for it, I say props to her.

(After a few months of people asking me that I eventually just responded with "Why do you go running every day?" or "Why do you knit?", or whatever their hobbies were, or even "Why does anyone do anything?!" it drove me mad!!)

My dissertation research actually deals pretty heavily with the "why are you learning X language?" social/political perceptions of language learning and how this affects motivation in adult learners. I find it so annoying when people (many of whom are monolingual) get so judgey mcjudgerson about a person's decision to learn a "useless" language. Yeah, maybe Japanese won't get you much mileage outside of Japan and some Japanese-speaking immigrant communities, but it's a complex and interesting language with a rich literary history, a fascinating culture to go along with it, and its grammar is actually quite similar to American Sign Language, believe it or not. And even if you're not going to "use it", who cares? You're learning an interesting and fun skill! And learning any second/foreign language is good for your brain.

I personally get a lot of "lololol so you can be a spy/go move to our new overlords lololol" about my decision to learn Mandarin Chinese. Nope, can't possibly be because it's the language of a very interesting country, has a beautiful writing system, has a massive literary canon spanning thousands of years and scores of genres, and is just really fun to speak. I mean, OK, it is helpful for getting jobs because China is so geopolitically important these days, but that's not the primary reason I decided to start learning it.

[Snarkle]

My dad is in his 70s and one of his requirements when my parents were looking for a place to retire to was proximity to a college.  He audits classes now (for free) each semester - right now he's "taking" macroeconomics, but in the past he's taken American History, astronomy, anatomy and physiology, and some other classes I can't remember.  Basically the ones he didn't take when he got his math and engineering degrees in his youth.  All he has to do as a "senior" student is ask the professor if he can sit in on the class lectures (none have turned him down yet) and then just go because the college has a senior audit program.  He doesn't turn in any assignments or take the tests, but he does usually get the textbook so he can follow along.  Recently the students in his economics class had to write about the economic policies of the president who was in office when they were born.  One of the regular-age students turned to my dad and asked him who was in office when he was born, and he said, "Roosevelt."  [We of course teased him that it was Teddy, not FDR.]   The professors of history especially like him because he brings a different perspective to the classroom and he asks thoughtful questions when he chooses to participate.  (He also likes to flirt with the young ladies.)  So look into auditing to keep your mind sharp when you're into retirement age if you want to learn something new!

[sndral]

On May 17, 2016 at 4:19 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

...I also find that the move towards "why bother learning something if it's not immediately and directly applicable to a 9-to-5 job" very dangerous. That doesn't mean that everyone should go out and spend 4 years analyzing 2000-year-old Chinese erotic poetry or debating the finer points of Shakespeare's grocery list, but that sort of "learning stuff is useless if you're not going to directly contribute to the neoliberal economic system" talk is why universities' liberal arts, humanities, and social sciences departments are losing so much funding. Because people think that those things are useless.

The unfortunate reality these days seems to be that many students acquire massive debt to pay for their education and thus must make that degree pay. The cynic in me thinks that the loss of funding for less marketable degrees may in part be caused by those interested in having that debt paid. When I look at the big picture I see debt slaves being created by colleges and I suspect that a lot of businesses profit from that.

As for my personal view on learning for fun - I hadn't thought about it, but after getting my degrees to qualify for my current job, I continued to dabble in ongoing learning. Geology from a JC when I lived practically on top of the San Andreas fault. 2 years of French from a JC in preparation for a visit to Europe. Then I got into volunteering (in addition to the job) and had to take a college course to qualify for my first volunteering experience and another course + ongoing biweekly updates in marine biology to qualify for my current volunteer gig.

 

[theinvisiblegirl]

31 minutes ago, Snarkle said:

My dad is in his 70s and one of his requirements when my parents were looking for a place to retire to was proximity to a college.  He audits classes now (for free) each semester - right now he's "taking" macroeconomics, but in the past he's taken American History, astronomy, anatomy and physiology, and some other classes I can't remember.  Basically the ones he didn't take when he got his math and engineering degrees in his youth.  All he has to do as a "senior" student is ask the professor if he can sit in on the class lectures (none have turned him down yet) and then just go because the college has a senior audit program.  He doesn't turn in any assignments or take the tests, but he does usually get the textbook so he can follow along.  Recently the students in his economics class had to write about the economic policies of the president who was in office when they were born.  One of the regular-age students turned to my dad and asked him who was in office when he was born, and he said, "Roosevelt."  [We of course teased him that it was Teddy, not FDR.]   The professors of history especially like him because he brings a different perspective to the classroom and he asks thoughtful questions when he chooses to participate.  (He also likes to flirt with the young ladies.)  So look into auditing to keep your mind sharp when you're into retirement age if you want to learn something new!

That's so awesome! He's really taking advantage of the term lifelong learning, and for good reason. No one should ever stop learning something, even if they aren't officially enrolled in a school.

 

Bringing the subject back around to the Bateses, I'd like some clarification on something. Why do I loosely remember Kelly and Gil speaking at an IBLP home school conference in recent years about how further education after high school was unnecessary and possibly even evil? Does anyone remember that? Were the speakers someone else and I'm just confusing them with Kelly and Gil?

[Melissa1977]

27 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

 

 

Bringing the subject back around to the Bateses, I'd like some clarification on something. Why do I loosely remember Kelly and Gil speaking at an IBLP home school conference in recent years about how further education after high school was unnecessary and possibly even evil? Does anyone remember that? Were the speakers someone else and I'm just confusing them with Kelly and Gil?

They started their blog when the older children were at college age, and they proudly showed they were taking classes (I assume online classes for Zach and Michael), and Erin was the family golden girl for her career.

Yes, they're very hypocrites so maybe they talked against school since their children wanted to go. It's possible. 

[Granwych]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 10:32 PM, Geechee Girl said:

It seems to me the South gets a lot of flack here which is unwarranted. There are many people of various faiths who believe their Creator has a plan for their lives. It's presumptuous to paint people of a particular region as backwards.

I would be SEVERELY uncomfortable to be out of the broom closet in the South, and most likely, just as severely unwelcome.

[QuiverDance]

I reckon we got Wiccans here, too.

[HowsMolly]

7 hours ago, Granwych said:

I would be SEVERELY uncomfortable to be out of the broom closet in the South, and most likely, just as severely unwelcome.

I'm not a native or anything, but my boyfriend and I are moving to NC this summer and have spent a lot of time there over the past few months. I've never experienced anything but Southern Hospitality there...no one seems to care what your orientation, race, religion, etc is. They're just generally simple, pleasant people. I'm sure that unless you actively tried to start a debate about religion or politics, the locals would mind their own business.  My parents lived in Georgia in the early 90s and had a similar impression; they loved the people there. Don't knock the South til you've tried it!

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

I reckon we got Wiccans here, too.

Western North Carolina, where I'm from, is  known for Wiccans. I've known witches all my life.

[19 cats and counting]

I've lived in the south before.  For the most part, the people are very friendly (despite some of their backwards ways, and even working in politics I never brought up the subject outside a campaign office).  I also like the general laid backness (if that is a word).  I'm from NY, where everything is going 10 miles a minute, and I found that to be a refreshing change.

The thing I liked the least about the south was not the people but the weather.  Hot weather and I don't get along (after I reach my melting point, I get incredibly cranky and you don't want to be around me).  If I was faced with the choice of a Florida vacation or living next door to Santa Claus in the North Pole, give me the man in the red suit.

I'm actually looking to move to a colder climate than the Mid-Atlantic.

[Granwych]

1 hour ago, HowsMolly said:

I'm not a native or anything, but my boyfriend and I are moving to NC this summer and have spent a lot of time there over the past few months. I've never experienced anything but Southern Hospitality there...no one seems to care what your orientation, race, religion, etc is. They're just generally simple, pleasant people. I'm sure that unless you actively tried to start a debate about religion or politics, the locals would mind their own business.  My parents lived in Georgia in the early 90s and had a similar impression; they loved the people there. Don't knock the South til you've tried it!

I didn't "knock the South."  I keep my pentacle to myself (unless fundies try to convert me) and just visit the Bible Belt, not live there.  I'm also not a Wiccan, but that's not important here.

[nolongerIFBx]

20 hours ago, eandre31 said:

If I were rich, I think I would enroll in a college and take classes that interested me or just expanded my knowledge in general. Unfortunately, I am not rich and can barely afford to pay off my student loans for my associate's degree. 

Learning is fun! 

See if you can get a job at a college/university. Depending on the individual institution's benefits, you can audit or even take classes for credit for free.

[eandre31]

6 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

See if you can get a job at a college/university. Depending on the individual institution's benefits, you can audit or even take classes for credit for free.

I already have a full time job and a son. I don't know if that would be possible for me. When my son gets a little older, I'm planning on going back to school though!

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, HowsMolly said:

They're just generally simple, pleasant people.

Having lived in NC my whole life I'm going to disagree here. Simple? Nope. People here are as complex and diverse and anywhere else. Pleasant? Sure, there are lots of pleasant people here and lots of really unpleasant people here. 

We probably do have a higher number of folks worshiping the Old South and the Rebel Flag. And people do ask a lot about where you go to church. But the South is a very diverse place full of diverse people and it is hard to generalize. 

[QuiverDance]

1 hour ago, Granwych said:

I didn't "knock the South."  I keep my pentacle to myself (unless fundies try to convert me) and just visit the Bible Belt, not live there.  I'm also not a Wiccan, but that's not important here.

 

I didn't mean to offend with the wiccan comment, so if I did I am very sorry.  I was just kidding around.  Truly, we are much more diverse and accepting than you'd think.  We are not solidly red, especially not in our cities.  There blue and red maps don't tell the whole story.  

[HowsMolly]

34 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Having lived in NC my whole life I'm going to disagree here. Simple? Nope. People here are as complex and diverse and anywhere else. Pleasant? Sure, there are lots of pleasant people here and lots of really unpleasant people here. 

I was referring to a slower pace of life and what many people perceive as old-fashioned, uncomplicated traditions that harken back to a "simpler" time (hospitality and manners, country music, hunting/fishing, sweet tea on the porch, church on Sundays followed by family dinner, etc). No offense intended. 

[VelociRapture]

The way I look at it is this:

I don't like stereotypes... But they usually exist for a reason. Some of those reasons are way outdated or were nothing more than racist (or sexist, etc.)  to begin with.

When it comes to the South, the reasons are varied and both outdated and not outdated. It depends largely on the area you speak of. For instance, Charlotte, NC is a very pleasant area (according to my liberal husband) and more liberal than other areas of the state. Should they be lumped in with all the minority hating, rebel flag waving asshats that want to build a wall and police the bathrooms? No. Because that stereotype is outdated when it comes to Charlotte and other liberal Southern areas.

But it also can't be ignored that those people exist and, for whatever reason, they are rather vocal in parts of the South. More so than they may be in other regions of the country. One person's Southern (or Northern or Western, etc) experience can vary wildly from someone else's experience - it doesn't mean one is more valid than the other nor does it mean someone is being unfair in how they view an area either.

[BeccaGrim]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:19 AM, eandre31 said:

I personally dislike snarking on a woman who obtains a college degree even though she has no intentions on using it. Fundamentalists love using the lack of education and job training as a way to keep women dependent on their husbands. If your husband cheats/is verbally or physically abusive and you have no college education, you are probably more likely to stay with that man. 

I think it's great that Michael is finishing her degree, whether or not she ever needs or wants to use it. If anything ever happens to Brandon, she may be able to support herself and her kids rather than finding a new husband or relying on her father.

Yes. This. I have always felt that education for the sake of education is perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with learning! 

[formergothardite]

19 minutes ago, HowsMolly said:

I was referring to a slower pace of life and what many people perceive as old-fashioned, uncomplicated traditions that harken back to a "simpler" time (hospitality and manners, country music, hunting/fishing, sweet tea on the porch, church on Sundays followed by family dinner, etc). No offense intended. 

North Carolina is a very diverse place and it isn't a giant Southern stereotype. Where can I get this slow pace of life? And I live in one of those small towns. The people I know who live in Charlotte are going to laugh that they are supposed to be sitting around hunting, listening to country music and drinking sweet tea on the front porch. Actually even in small town this old stereotype of Southerners is pretty outdated. I don't really know anyone who isn't 70+ who fits that stereotype. 

I'm not offended, just wish people wouldn't act like this South is this one stereotype. 

[HowsMolly]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

North Carolina is a very diverse place and it isn't a giant Southern stereotype. Where can I get this slow pace of life? And I live in one of those small towns. The people I know who live in Charlotte are going to laugh that they are supposed to be sitting around hunting, listening to country music and drinking sweet tea on the front porch. Actually even in small town this old stereotype of Southerners is pretty outdated. I don't really know anyone who isn't 70+ who fits that stereotype. 

I'm not offended, just wish people wouldn't act like this South is this one stereotype. 

Please relax. No one said that every single Southerner has to spend every minute of their existence drinking sweet tea. You should work on disagreeing without invalidating others' experiences.