Michael (Bates) Keilen Bump Watch

[Fundie Bunny]

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Hopefully they are going in the "I'm getting a tattoo and believing less awful things" direction and not the Miss Raquel "I'm getting a tattoo and still being awful" direction. 

With the tattoo they probably aren't going about doing stuff with IBLP. But does anyone have any info on their ministry to sex workers? I can't find a single mention of it. 

Or worse, wearing a bikini and still being a little shit, like jessica seewald

[19 cats and counting]

13 hours ago, Exjw2015deed said:

He has a tattoo!! I'm so confused. I need to go down a rabbit hole. Tattoos are so sinful in even lighter Christian organizations. A lot of the bates' children in-laws seem so much more fundie light. Not the parents but certainly their children. Keilen girls but I also don't know much about the websters. It's the same for the duggar in-laws too. I wonder if their siblings will rub off on them in the future.

The Keilen kids seem to be an interesting mix.  Some of them are very deep into IBLP but others seem to be distant.  Brandon and Becky (a bridesmaid at Erin's wedding) seem to have guzzled more Kool-Aid than anyone else. 

IIRC Brandon is one of the younger kids and it seems his family found Gothard when he was little (or just before he was born).  The older kids seem to be leading normal lives, as does his youngest sister.  I also think there's very few if any grandchildren in the family.

(I think there's some background on his family in the thread when their courtship was announced).

[crazysnark]

The sex work ministry was on their instagram. I can try and dig to find it. I don't think it was with IBLP though.... could be wrong tho.

It was on Thomas' instagram but he has deleted his it since. I do remember it was through www.xxxchurch.com tho. I don't have any proof besides what I remember. 

[formergothardite]

From  that website(that I was a bit terrified to go search for!) it seems like this "ministry" is a lot about shaming people who watch porn and not a lot about helping women who have been taken advantage of and forced into the sex industry. Their goal seems to be "freedom from porn". Their "help for women" button takes you to info about how bad it is for women to watch porn. They even seem to think it is wrong for women to masturbate. 

So yeah, if that is what they are involved with, it is a regular fundie shaming ministry run by people who are trying to look cool and edgy for Jesus. 

[crazysnark]

The Paine's will probably have to rely on Chad and Erin for their grandchildren or arrows. I don't see Thomas and Dakota having a lot, Tabitha is in her 30's and not courting, and I believe they just had a broken courtship with one of the daughters. They had pics of them together on their blog but have since taken them down. I get the vibe hey are very controlling over who the daughters marry....shocker!

[ophelia]

26 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

The Paine's will probably have to rely on Chad and Erin for their grandchildren or arrows. I don't see Thomas and Dakota having a lot, Tabitha is in her 30's and not courting, and I believe they just had a broken courtship with one of the daughters. They had pics of them together on their blog but have since taken them down. I get the vibe hey are very controlling over who the daughters marry....shocker!

There are some unmarried Staddon sons left. Maybe they'll find their match there.

[Palimpsest]

On 6/7/2016 at 6:37 AM, formergothardite said:

From  that website(that I was a bit terrified to go search for!)

Oh, my.  Me too!

 That xxx.com ministry was a new one for me and what a rabbit hole.  I think it needs its own thread because the snark possibilities are endless!  See, if Josh Duggar had been connected there he could have cured himself from porn and sexual addiction in a 30 day online course.  No need for 6 months in religious porridge.

I think Thomas and Dakota are definitely still Fundie if that is their ministry!

I'm still catching up.  Somehow I missed Thomas getting a tattoo.  Are we sure it wasn't just a temporary one as he went undercover in his quest to combat porn?   Do we a photographic evidence?  Would looking at a photo of his tattoo subject me to the evils of porn as I lust after his manly chest/back/forearm/leg/whatever? 

[actuallyjessica]

Oh, my.  Me too!

 That xxx.com ministry was a new one for me and what a rabbit hole.  I think it needs its own thread because the snark possibilities are endless!  See, if Josh Duggar had been connected there he could have cured himself from porn and sexual addiction in a 30 day online course.  No need for 6 months in religious porridge.

I think Thomas and Dakota are definitely still Fundie if that is their ministry!

I'm still catching up.  Somehow I missed Thomas getting a tattoo.  Are we sure it wasn't just a temporary one as he went undercover in his quest to combat porn?   Do we a photographic evidence?  Would looking at a photo of his tattoo subject me to the evils of porn as I lust after his manly chest/back/forearm/leg/whatever? 

I saw photos of him shirtless on their honeymoon with his tattoo. They were posted here a while ago.

[Palimpsest]

5 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

I saw photos of him shirtless on their honeymoon with his tattoo. They were posted here a while ago.

I did a quick search here on FJ and I looked at their honeymoon pictures again.  Still can't find it.  There is this.  Maybe it is my eyesight but where is the tattoo?  

From Thomas's blog--constant-survival.blogspot.com/

On 6/5/2016 at 7:58 PM, actuallyjessica said:

I think it sounds promising. I think they met while working for headquarters or something but I remember seeing a blog kind of stepping away from all of that? Was that him? Or his brother?

Yes, they met while working at HQ.  That is documented in both Thomas and Dakota's blogs and I linked to those a few posts back.  Can you provide a link to the blog post you mentioned here that indicates they are stepping back?  

You keep throwing out vague references to things you "remember" that indicate people are becoming less Fundie.  You never bother to document them or refresh your memory.  Is it because you are lazy or because you are wishful thinking and making stuff up?

[formergothardite]

Tattoo or not. Working for IBLP or not. If that is the ministry they are working with then it appears that they have kept the awful fundie beliefs while just adopting a different look.  That ministry is just another "porn is bad, stop masturbating" edition of fundie beliefs. It doesn't appear to actually provide help to any people forced into the sex industry. 

[Palimpsest]

On 6/5/2016 at 6:15 PM, HereticHick said:

Thomas and Dakota haven't reproduced yet-- I think they will be married 2 years this Aug or Sept. And he has a tattoo, and she wears shorts.  I agree, we'll see. 

A tattooed Paine would be a really huge deal.  I'm so frustrated because I can't find a picture of it.

[crazysnark]

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I did a quick search here on FJ and I looked at their honeymoon pictures again.  Still can't find it.  There is this.  Maybe it is my eyesight but where is the tattoo?  

From Thomas's blog--constant-survival.blogspot.com/

Yes, they met while working at HQ.  That is documented in both Thomas and Dakota's blogs and I linked to those a few posts back.  Can you provide a link to the blog post you mentioned here that indicates they are stepping back?  

You keep throwing out vague references to things you "remember" that indicate people are becoming less Fundie.  You never bother to document them or refresh your memory.  Is it because you are lazy or because you are wishful thinking and making stuff up?

No need to be rude. Just because someone doesn't cite the source doesn't mean they can't share their recollections. For most of us FJ is what we do in our free time and we can't spend an hour searching for something. This doesn't mean they are lazy or are lying. This probably just means that people have other priorities than citing every single source or fundie stalking 24/7. 

[actuallyjessica]

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

A tattooed Paine would be a really huge deal.  I'm so frustrated because I can't find a picture of it.

If you had asked nicely, I would have happily found a picture for you hours ago. Also, if my posts bother you as much as they seem to, why not just use the 'ignore user' feature or whatever it's called? It might be a great option.

It's not the exact picture I was thinking of, but what matters is that you can see his tattoo.

2 hours ago, crazysnark said:

No need to be rude. Just because someone doesn't cite the source doesn't mean they can't share their recollections. For most of us FJ is what we do in our free time and we can't spend an hour searching for something. This doesn't mean they are lazy or are lying. This probably just means that people have other priorities than citing every single source or fundie stalking 24/7. 

Well said, thank you

[Palimpsest]

Thank you so much for finding the photograph of tattoo @actuallyjessica.  How very nice of you.  A tattoed Paine is actually quite a big deal in Fundieland. 

As you succeeded in that search, when you have time could you also very kindly and considerately find the link to where you think Thomas and Dakota said they were stepping away from Gothardism?  Thank you in advance.

2 hours ago, crazysnark said:

No need to be rude. Just because someone doesn't cite the source doesn't mean they can't share their recollections. For most of us FJ is what we do in our free time and we can't spend an hour searching for something. This doesn't mean they are lazy or are lying. This probably just means that people have other priorities than citing every single source or fundie stalking 24/7. 

Yes I realize that an awful lot of you are here just for the idle gossip, speculation, and to share vague recollections of things you "think you read somewhere."  Sometimes these are things you read on Free Jinger or easily found by a quick search.  It is a courtesy to others if you can provide a link - especially if someone requests it - and lazy not to link if you can.  IMO, of course. 

Unfortunately things like "I remember" or I read somewhere" are exactly how rumor and speculation morph into fact on the internet.  It is also not how my mind works.  If I am going to make a statement of fact, I like to know where I can back it up where possible.  

From experience of speculation or rumor morphing into fact on FJ - a statement like "Thomas has a tattoo" needs to be backed up with evidence - or I simply dismiss it as unfounded rumor or wishful thinking.

I did do a quick search for evidence of Thomas Paine's tattoo.  Oddly enough I too have other priorities and would prefer not to have to search through old threads on FJ to prove other posters are correct in their recollections. It was rather rude of you to imply that I am "fundie stalking 24/7."  As for actuallyjessica - she's incredibly rude on a regular basis.  It's amazing that she expects people to be polite to her.

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, crazysnark said:

No need to be rude. Just because someone doesn't cite the source doesn't mean they can't share their recollections. For most of us FJ is what we do in our free time and we can't spend an hour searching for something. This doesn't mean they are lazy or are lying. This probably just means that people have other priorities than citing every single source or fundie stalking 24/7. 

Was she as nice as she could have been? No, probably not. I may have chosen different wording myself, but that's just me.

Her point remains though. It's ok to say that you think you saw a picture somewhere at some point. It becomes a bit problematic after multiple instances of not having some sort of source to help document it though (not saying that's the case with you - I don't know your post history). 

As @Palimpsestmentioned, it's incredibly easy for rumors to become facts on this website - one specific example is the claim that the Duggars don't pay taxes due to having their home classified as a Church. I have no clue how that rumor started or why, but it's completely false... Yet you still see it pop up in the Duggar forums with someone claiming it's an absolute fact. It's mind boggling to be honest. That rumor just won't die. It's like the fucking cockroach of the rumor world around here! 

I think everyone (myself included) just needs to be cautious when posting - not to be purposely inflammatory or to unintentionally turn rumor into fact. We want to discus these topics, but we don't want to spread misinformation or read too much into trivial (or surface) changes either. It can be a bit of a delicate balance at times.

[actuallyjessica]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Thank you so much for finding the photograph of tattoo @actuallyjessica.  How very nice of you.  A tattoed Paine is actually quite a big deal in Fundieland. 

As you succeeded in that search, when you have time could you also very kindly and considerately find the link to where you think Thomas and Dakota said they were stepping away from Gothardism?  Thank you in advance.

Yes I realize that an awful lot of you are here just for the idle gossip, speculation, and to share vague recollections of things you "think you read somewhere."  Sometimes these are things you read on Free Jinger or easily found by a quick search.  It is a courtesy to others if you can provide a link - especially if someone requests it - and lazy not to link if you can.  IMO, of course. 

Unfortunately things like "I remember" or I read somewhere" are exactly how rumor and speculation morph into fact on the internet.  It is also not how my mind works.  If I am going to make a statement of fact, I like to know where I can back it up where possible.  

From experience of speculation or rumor morphing into fact on FJ - a statement like "Thomas has a tattoo" needs to be backed up with evidence - or I simply dismiss it as unfounded rumor or wishful thinking.

I did do a quick search for evidence of Thomas Paine's tattoo.  Oddly enough I too have other priorities and would prefer not to have to search through old threads on FJ to prove other posters are correct in their recollections. It was rather rude of you to imply that I am "fundie stalking 24/7."  As for actuallyjessica - she's incredibly rude on a regular basis.  It's amazing that she expects people to be polite to her.

I don't intend to be rude, and if I come across as rude and somebody tells me they perceive my post as rude, I will admit my wrong doings and apologise. The internet does not always convey the intended tone, however, your post was very clearly sarcastic. I'm always happy to clear up any confusion that my posts may cause I don't wish to cause anyone to have a negative FJ experience. . If I have caused any offence to you @Palimpsest, I am sorry.

As for the link you're after, I was on my phone and cannot search from there. I had a look on Thomas' blog for the post (where it used to be) and could not find it. I'm guessing it has since been deleted. However, there was a fair bit of discussion regarding the post - which was how I found it in the first place - I don't really follow the Paines. If anyone else has the post saved or can give more information than I can, (I'm not going to summarise a post I read years ago - just in case something I say is wrong and taken as fact), that would be great.


--
This is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement.
It's completely okay to have different opinions, what is not okay is to jump on other members no matter what they say, just because you have not agreed with them in the past. Some people here are prolific, some just like to come here to escape their reality and if that means they want to post something lighthearted, then so be it. Nobody here is going to run away and join a cult.

If you notice a certain user repeatedly saying things you do not like, either report the post if it breaks a board rule or just do the adult thing and use the ignore button. While people are too busy getting annoyed at other members, it leaves less time for snarking on the fundies we're all here for.

I hope none of that is misconstrued, and if it is - I apologise in advance.

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

As @Palimpsestmentioned, it's incredibly easy for rumors to become facts on this website - one specific example is the claim that the Duggars don't pay taxes due to having their home classified as a Church. I have no clue how that rumor started or why, but it's completely false... Yet you still see it pop up in the Duggar forums with someone claiming it's an absolute fact. It's mind boggling to be honest. That rumor just won't die. It's like the fucking cockroach of the rumor world around here! 

One of my pet bugaboos and yes I agree I feel like I'm stomping on cockroaches with it. 

Quote

It's completely okay to have different opinions, what is not okay is to jump on other members no matter what they say, just because you have not agreed with them in the past. Some people here are prolific, some just like to come here to escape their reality and if that means they want to post something lighthearted, then so be it. Nobody here is going to run away and join a cult.

If you notice a certain user repeatedly saying things you do not like, either report the post if it breaks a board rule or just do the adult thing and use the ignore button. While people are too busy getting annoyed at other members, it leaves less time for snarking on the fundies we're all here for.

I think posts like this come across a lot better from members if they aren't quite so directive.  Saying I prefer, it seems to me, wouldn't it make things easier, rather than saying what is not okay and telling people what to do when people say things they do not like.  I have to say this one comes across a bit bossy.  Something to think about....

[actuallyjessica]

5 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

One of my pet bugaboos and yes I agree I feel like I'm stomping on cockroaches with it. 

I think posts like this come across a lot better from members if they aren't quite so directive.  Saying I prefer, it seems to me, wouldn't it make things easier, rather than saying what is not okay and telling people what to do when people say things they do not like.  I have to say this one comes across a bit bossy.  Something to think about....

Thanks, noted. in short: It seems to me that simply hitting a button or two would be much easier for everybody involved. A win/win, no?

[crazysnark]

There are 229 episodes of 19 kids and counting, 42 episodes of bringing up bates so far and countless other blog posts. It is impossible to be able to remember exactly where you are getting information from. Any time I am not certain I will say so to ensure the rumor doesn't get out of control. However,  to deem someone as lazy or a liar because they didn't post a picture of the tattoo is ridiculous. I enjoy FJ because of the (sometimes) intelligent discussions but  recently people have quite a stick shoved a little too far up their ass. FJ is all about snarking and speculation, not a college course in which work needs to be cited. If people choose to run with a rumor with no credibility it's their problem

 

Also, while I do enjoy FJ I am not on here enough to know all of the posters and their personalities so I don't know who is a little more rude to people vs who isn't. The only one's I recognize are the main posters and mods. 

[VelociRapture]

48 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

One of my pet bugaboos and yes I agree I feel like I'm stomping on cockroaches with it. 

Seriously!!! We need like industrial strength Internet Raid or something! That rumor pisses me off so bad.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

If you had asked nicely, I would have happily found a picture for you hours ago. Also, if my posts bother you as much as they seem to, why not just use the 'ignore user' feature or whatever it's called? It might be a great option.

It's not the exact picture I was thinking of, but what matters is that you can see his tattoo.

Well said, thank you

Even his tattoo is fundie. I was hoping for something edgier. Like something that's says "too cool for public school."

[CorruptionInc.]

Seeing my Hillsong friend's church friends - I see plenty of tattoos. All about Jesus though...

[nelliebelle1197]

3 hours ago, crazysnark said:

There are 229 episodes of 19 kids and counting, 42 episodes of bringing up bates so far and countless other blog posts. It is impossible to be able to remember exactly where you are getting information from. Any time I am not certain I will say so to ensure the rumor doesn't get out of control. However,  to deem someone as lazy or a liar because they didn't post a picture of the tattoo is ridiculous. I enjoy FJ because of the (sometimes) intelligent discussions but  recently people have quite a stick shoved a little too far up their ass. FJ is all about snarking and speculation, not a college course in which work needs to be cited. If people choose to run with a rumor with no credibility it's their problem

 

Also, while I do enjoy FJ I am not on here enough to know all of the posters and their personalities so I don't know who is a little more rude to people vs who isn't. The only one's I recognize are the main posters and mods. 

 You obviously are not around the full forum much are you? Because I have been asked about 874 times to back up something I post. Go pick a random thread. Just about every other page someone says nicely, usually, "where'd you read that?" and some responds, nicely, usually, "Oh, I found that in the comments on J-Rod's Facebook post from Thursday. Here's the link." Or "That crazy theology is all over Jen Epstein's wacky blog. I can't find the quote right now, but just google Jen Epstein is batnuts and you'll find the blog. It has not been active since the rape scandal, but it should be in one of the posts just before that."

It is actually perfectly normal around here to show other posters where primary source material is found. Happens every day. That's the thing - most people around here usually know where they found something before they post about it, and most people around here happily totter off and figure out where they found that weird factoid rather than make an issue of it. I always double check before I post something obscure unless I am actively looking for said weird factoid and need help. That's pretty much what everyone does without even thinking about it.

So what is odd is someone posting about a weird factoid and having no idea where it came from and seeing no reason to find it. I am not saying @actuallyjessica did that on purpose or meant her posts that way, but I can totally see why someone could take the series of posts in a negative way and respond in such a manner.

 

[Purrl]

On 6/5/2016 at 2:47 PM, Palimpsest said:

Thomas and Dakota Paine are still IBLP fans and still very much part of the Paine family.

As of last year, Thomas Paine works for a Fundyish tree service (Hansen's not Bates's) in MO and Dakota works at a children's psychiatric hospital - doing I know not what.  They went missionarying in the Philippines under the IBLP banner last year too.  Probably their ministry to sex workers (if they have one) is through an IBLP/ATI prison ministry.  Daddy Paine has his connections.

Dakota's old blog: http://inhisarms-onestepatatime.blogspot.com/

Their new blog hasn't been updated recently: http://constant-survival.blogspot.com/ 

Rumors that they are less Fundie, not as Fundie, possibly verging on Fundie-lite, these days seem to be based on the fact that she is not convicted to be skirts-only, had a sleeveless wedding dress, and has been photographed in a non-modestwear swimsuit.  And I don't think they have reproduced yet.

We'll see.

She's a Certified Nurse Aid but doesn't state that's her job at the Psych Hospital. From her blog:

"March 2014:
I completed my C.N.A. training and after praying and studying like a crazy person, God was gracious and allowed me to pass my state exam! I am now a Certified Nurse Aid. Praise the Lord, could not of done any little bit of it without Him!"

She also mentions going to JTTH and doing some prison ministry in Florida.

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, Purrl said:

She's a Certified Nurse Aid but doesn't state that's her job at the Psych Hospital. From her blog:

"March 2014:
I completed my C.N.A. training and after praying and studying like a crazy person, God was gracious and allowed me to pass my state exam! I am now a Certified Nurse Aid. Praise the Lord, could not of done any little bit of it without Him!"

She also mentions going to JTTH and doing some prison ministry in Florida.

The nurse aid job is something that is Gothard-approved. She likely does not work, just like the rest.