Bates Family - Part 3

[Pretzel]

I not only remember the dresses. I remember that Michael made them.

One reason why I hate people snarking on clothes and appearance. In the Bateses' case, Michael spent a great deal of time on tailoring the family's wardrobe. At least her workforce should get enough appreciation, even if the dresses themselves don't reach our standard of decent clothing.

[Georgiana]

One reason why I hate people snarking on clothes and appearance. In the Bateses' case, Michael spent a great deal of time on tailoring the family's wardrobe. At least her workforce should get enough appreciation, even if the dresses themselves don't reach our standard of decent clothing.

I'm not convinced those dresses weren't largely for the TV show, one way or another. There are a good amount of older Bates photos floating around, and while they certainly were not dressed as well as they are now, they also weren't in prairie dresses.

TLC at that time was still playing up the "freak" aspect of the Duggars, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if the producers asked Gil and Kelly to have their kids match in homemade clothes once they found out Michael sews, or if Gil/Kelly just wanted to have the kids in new outfits for being on TV.

Since they were going to a historical, old West theme park, I wouldn't be shocked if Michael made those dresses special just for that occasion and chose the Prairie style to fit the park. Like how you might choose princess-esque dresses for Disneyland. They're much brighter than the Bates' normal color choices (they seem to favor pastels or muted colors, except for Alyssa), which would be PERFECT for keeping track of everyone in a crowded setting.

I think those dresses were more "special occasion dress up" than normal attire.

[grandmadugger]

One reason why I hate people snarking on clothes and appearance. In the Bateses' case, Michael spent a great deal of time on tailoring the family's wardrobe. At least her workforce should get enough appreciation, even if the dresses themselves don't reach our standard of decent clothing.

That's just it, even in frumper phase the Bates were really better dressed. Largely because of Michael's sewing skills. I've always found it interesting that the Bates were never as financially sound as the Duggars but made it work.

[formergothardite]

I can't really fault the Duggar girls for not being good at making their own clothes. Some people just aren't inclined to do well in that area and it really sucks if you are forced into a mold where you are supposed to make your own clothes but you aren't a skilled seamstress. Pretty sure the Bates had people who bought material for them. Didn't we used to have a Bates fan who posted here who mailed Michael material and sewing supplies? The Bates didn't as much "make it work" as they did "use their kids to get people to give them stuff". The Duggars did this too, but Gil and Kelly always seemed to be better at it.

[grandmadugger]

I can't really fault the Duggar girls for not being good at making their own clothes. Some people just aren't inclined to do well in that area and it really sucks if you are forced into a mold where you are supposed to make your own clothes but you aren't a skilled seamstress. Pretty sure the Bates had people who bought material for them. Didn't we used to have a Bates fan who posted here who mailed Michael material and sewing supplies? The Bates didn't as much "make it work" as they did "use their kids to get people to give them stuff". The Duggars did this too, but Gil and Kelly always seemed to be better at it.

I'm not sure the Duggars could or have ever worked that hard. Grifting takes skills and hard work things that the Duggars seem to lack.

[Georgiana]

I'm not sure the Duggars could or have ever worked that hard. Grifting takes skills and hard work things that the Duggars seem to lack.

I disagree. I think that JB seemed to work pretty hard before the show with his various investments. Even during the early specials, the Duggars were living fairly decently. JB knows how to make a buck out of nothing and seems to be a shrewd investor. I can't fault a man for being able to seize unconventional opportunities to make a profit.

JB did whatever he could to bring in cash to support his brood. Love him or hate him for it, if there was a way to get money from something, he would do it. The man was serious about supporting his family. Meanwhile, Gil Bates quit a good job to go grift and never seemed particularly concerned about putting in extra effort to make ends meet himself. He expected others (including his own son) to help with that.

I think the more relaxed JB is really a partially retired JB. Assuming he kept up his financial management, there's really no reason for him to work anymore if he doesn't want to. My grandpa worked hard, invested well, and retired in his early 50's too. He wasn't lazy, he just played his cards right.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I don't know about you, but I'm getting pretty excited for the new UP show "The Ties That Bind" with my boyfriend Luke Perry. The commercials have me intrigued ;P

[formergothardite]

I disagree. I think that JB seemed to work pretty hard before the show with his various investments. Even during the early specials, the Duggars were living fairly decently. JB knows how to make a buck out of nothing and seems to be a shrewd investor. I can't fault a man for being able to seize unconventional opportunities to make a profit.

JB did whatever he could to bring in cash to support his brood. Love him or hate him for it, if there was a way to get money from something, he would do it. The man was serious about supporting his family. Meanwhile, Gil Bates quit a good job to go grift and never seemed particularly concerned about putting in extra effort to make ends meet himself. He expected others (including his own son) to help with that.

I think the more relaxed JB is really a partially retired JB. Assuming he kept up his financial management, there's really no reason for him to work anymore if he doesn't want to. My grandpa worked hard, invested well, and retired in his early 50's too. He wasn't lazy, he just played his cards right.

Exactly. When the show first started the Duggars were in much better shape financially than the Bates because Jim Bob worked pretty hard while Gil just quit a job to sit about waiting for people to give him stuff. Jim Bob is doing a whole lot less now because he doesn't have to work anymore. I think that Jim Bob probably invested his money wisely enough that no one in that family will have to really worry about money again. They won't be as rich as they would with more TLC money and they probably won't do as much since TLC isn't paying for it, but I really doubt they are going to be poor.

[SassyPants]

Exactly. When the show first started the Duggars were in much better shape financially than the Bates because Jim Bob worked pretty hard while Gil just quit a job to sit about waiting for people to give him stuff. Jim Bob is doing a whole lot less now because he doesn't have to work anymore. I think that Jim Bob probably invested his money wisely enough that no one in that family will have to really worry about money again. They won't be as rich as they would with more TLC money and they probably won't do as much since TLC isn't paying for it, but I really doubt they are going to be poor.

I think it's way too early to make that call. Much depends on if/when any of the other adults in the family decide to start earning a living, the amount of money made and the number of children in need of support. I suppose JB and M will never be poor, but many of their children could face that exact financial reality in the future.

[grandmadugger]

JB may have worked hard at the start but he was still relying on "love offerings a lot". Remember Michelle talking about eating rice three ways for awhile? I'm not giving Gil a pass at all, he has an education and refuses to use it but JB had money and refused to feed his kids.

[mstee]

The latest show mentions that Gil was laid off and didn't quit that high paying job he had when the kids were young. I still think he's a first class grifter, but I know it's always mentioned that he quit that job (and who knows, it may be true. Maybe UP wanted a better storyline).

Also, I was impressed the one daughter was learning chemistry. I didn't expect that in the Bates school curriculum. I'm in college chem and seriously struggling. Can I get a Bates tutor?!

Ok done leg humpping :leg-humper: :leg-humper:

[HerNameIsBuffy]

The latest show mentions that Gil was laid off and didn't quit that high paying job he had when the kids were young. I still think he's a first class grifter, but I know it's always mentioned that he quit that job (and who knows, it may be true. Maybe UP wanted a better storyline).

Also, I was impressed the one daughter was learning chemistry. I didn't expect that in the Bates school curriculum. I'm in college chem and seriously struggling. Can I get a Bates tutor?!

Ok done leg humpping :leg-humper: :leg-humper:

Do they go to a local school for the lab? I can't imagine stocking the equipment and material for a chem lab would be cost effective for one (albeit huge) family.

[DowntownAbbey]

Do they go to a local school for the lab? I can't imagine stocking the equipment and material for a chem lab would be cost effective for one (albeit huge) family.

They could also do the lab portions online. I went to high school online and we did everything through a lab simulator. It's, admittedly, not the best way to learn but it would allow the Bates to do it from home.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

They could also do the lab portions online. I went to high school online and we did everything through a lab simulator. It's, admittedly, not the best way to learn but it would allow the Bates to do it from home.

Thanks - I had no idea that was a thing. Bunsen burners and goggles were required back in my day. :)

edited because googles and goggles are different words.

[formergothardite]

The latest show mentions that Gil was laid off and didn't quit that high paying job he had when the kids were young. I still think he's a first class grifter, but I know it's always mentioned that he quit that job (and who knows, it may be true. Maybe UP wanted a better storyline).

Also, I was impressed the one daughter was learning chemistry. I didn't expect that in the Bates school curriculum. I'm in college chem and seriously struggling. Can I get a Bates tutor?!

Ok done leg humpping :leg-humper: :leg-humper:

Well that is a retelling of history. I can't find the quote yet(still looking) but I remember Gil talking about how the Lord led him to leave his job and they were worried because they lost the company van that was their only vehicle large enough for all of them to fit in. Luckily the Lord led someone to give them a van so it showed that God really would provide. I found a couple of news articles from back when they were first on the Duggar show that he mentions leaving Nabisco, I'm wondering if the other bit is in some of his ATI materials that are harder to find. He teaches an ATI class on how to raise a billion children without having a steady job.

Gil and Kelly are very conscious of their public image and I can see them realizing that it makes them look bad for Gil to have quit his job so they just created a story line that would make them look good. Kind of like their "Patriot Room" that only praised Confederate leaders and later Kelly came up with a not so convincing story(that I can't remember) to explain it away.

[actuallyjessica]

i know the topic has moved on now (i tried posting this yesterday and the day before, but kept getting an error), i have to say when i saw the post about alyssa's #wcw instagram pic, and i noticed tori webster's instagram bio: Tori Webster If you don't have the guts to meet me in person, don't follow me on Instagram, creeper! Thanks, friend!

-----

not keeping sweet, is she? i find it amusing that she and alyssa are bffs, because i feel like this is what alyssa is like. i like these pants-wearin', straight-shootin' fundies.

[formergothardite]

While trying to find early articles about the Bates and Gil talking about the Nabisco job I found where they joked about how they are the "Late Bates" because they never get anywhere on time. That is another thing they have edited out of their lives because they know it is a turn-off for most people. In many ways this family if faker than the Duggars.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I can only repeat what I've posted before: The big difference is that Gil and Kelly have a healthy relationship. Actually, I think Gil admires her. The way he looks at her, he'd make a great fundie wife :lol: No really, I think that's the cornerstone of raising emotionally healthy kids. Both are way more genuine about their sentiments and feelings, which makes for a home in which the kids are not afraid to show emotion.

JB, however, is a controlling, dominant patriarch with an ego the size of a giant and Michelle is an emotionally stunted, cold stepford-wife with a baby voice.

Their fundamentalist believes may be the same, but their general behavior as emotional humans couldn't be more different.

Plus, Bates parents both enjoyed higher education. I'm afraid JB and M don't even know how to spell that.

The reason why they're friends or frenemies is probably that they're happy not to be the only freaks with an extraordinary number of kids. Sometimes people's friendship wouldn't have a basis if it wasn't for similarities in lifestyle that no others share. I guess the Bateseseses feel a slight obligation to keep the status quo as the Duggars have payed for their house addition, and the latter will continue wallowing in the feeling of being the sponsors.

I've said it before, but it's not just the parents' relationships with each other, its their relationships with their kids. The Duggars DON'T have relationships with their kids. Everyone is treated as part of the unit (right down to how they handled Josh), no one's emotional needs are met, no one's intellectual needs are met, they don't have any opportunities to have their own dreams or goals, etc. Kelly and Gil meet the emotional needs of their children who then meet each others emotional needs. They meet their intellectual needs, and allowed many of them (including their daughters) to pursue education outside the home in a school setting (even if it was an ultra-conservative school). They allowed Erin to pursue music, Nate to pursue piloting, Lawson to start his own business, etc, where the closest the Duggars came was making sure someone in the family could help birth the babies that kept popping out (and she had to be chaperoned). When Zach's courtship failed, they revisited their beliefs and allowed them to change.

I think the Bateses want to do what's right for their kids, but they were misguided by a cult leader (which really isn't the first time in history such a thing has happened). Michelle and JB just needed someone to tell them what to do, which is what the cult gave them.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I am sorry that I didn't make myself clearer about Lawson in the Bahamas. I have been following his Instagram for a long time--what I've noticed is that he never makes any references to working. You would think that a small business owner like Lawson might want to promote his business every once in a while. His life seems to be one field trip, sporting event and golf game after another, with a very occasional singing gig (usually unpaid by all appearances) and apparently no pursuit of any sort of post-high school education or training.

Being in the Bahamas seems to be just the latest stop in Lawson's laidback life.

I wouldn't promote my small business on a forum like instagram if I was also the star of a reality TV show. I feel like that's just opening you up to harassment from fans. Fans probably wont go out of their way to find your business contact, but if you put it on social media, right in front of their faces, do you really think they'll leave you alone?

[zadie]

I've said it before, but it's not just the parents' relationships with each other, its their relationships with their kids. The Duggars DON'T have relationships with their kids. Everyone is treated as part of the unit (right down to how they handled Josh), no one's emotional needs are met, no one's intellectual needs are met, they don't have any opportunities to have their own dreams or goals, etc. Kelly and Gil meet the emotional needs of their children who then meet each others emotional needs. They meet their intellectual needs, and allowed many of them (including their daughters) to pursue education outside the home in a school setting (even if it was an ultra-conservative school). They allowed Erin to pursue music, Nate to pursue piloting, Lawson to start his own business, etc, where the closest the Duggars came was making sure someone in the family could help birth the babies that kept popping out (and she had to be chaperoned). When Zach's courtship failed, they revisited their beliefs and allowed them to change.

I think the Bateses want to do what's right for their kids, but they were misguided by a cult leader (which really isn't the first time in history such a thing has happened). Michelle and JB just needed someone to tell them what to do, which is what the cult gave them.

I disagree about that interpretation. I think the Bates and Duggar parents are equally as obsessed with proving their godliness through how many babies they have. The only difference is the Bates didn't have a T.V. show to exalt them even further, so they encouraged their kids talents more so they could show them off.

The Duggars didn't have to worry about focusing too much on their kids well-being any more than the basics really, because they had a show as proof of how wonderful their parenting is.

I think the Bates possibly being more emotionally in tune with their children is a happy accident instead of something done from the goodness of their hearts.

[19 cats and counting]

I wouldn't promote my small business on a forum like instagram if I was also the star of a reality TV show. I feel like that's just opening you up to harassment from fans. Fans probably wont go out of their way to find your business contact, but if you put it on social media, right in front of their faces, do you really think they'll leave you alone?

Other than wannabe country star, isn't Lawson's business lawn care (or am I confusing him with another fundie)? I haven't looked at his IG lately, but I don't see too many lawn care/landscaping posts on there.

If I were a reality star and wannabe music star with a recorded CD, I'd hawk my albums on social media, so I will give him a pass on that one.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

I feel like the Bates are gearing up to announce a new courtship between Nathan and someone...

Seems that the newest YouTube video and the visit with the young women from New York are signs pointing towards a season finale courtship announcement. Thoughts?

youtu.be/gTffNzGLR-U

[RosyDaisy]

The Bates ladies are only going to college to get their MRS degrees. Sure, they might be able to get Gothard approved jobs, but, chances are when they get engaged, education and employment go out the window. Well, except for giving music lessons, and things that don't distract them from being fundie SAHW/M

[Closed Womb]

The Bates ladies are only going to college to get their MRS degrees. Sure, they might be able to get Gothard approved jobs, but, chances are when they get engaged, education and employment go out the window. Well, except for giving music lessons, and things that don't distract them from being fundie SAHW/M

Perhaps, but if they finish their degrees (as Erin did), then at least they will have a better chance at making it/staving off poverty/supporting a family/etc. if something happens to their husbands down the road.

[Closed Womb]

Re: the (never gonna happen) baby #20 --

I think both families desperately want the 20th kid (no shock there), but I really think that the Duggars want one for the notoriety and the Bates family (especially Kelly and Gil) wants another baby to love.

I think there would be a twinge of jealousy from Kelly if Michelle got pregnant and had a live birth; I think Michelle might emotionally spiral out of control with jealousy if Kelly became pregnant and had a live birth.

I really think Kelly and Gil think of children as a blessing (like, a blessing in their life), without it being a way of God calling them out as special. I think the Duggars think of themselves as God's special snowflakes, as evidenced by babies.