Bates Family - Part 3

[19 cats and counting]

Ok. But how is that different than Derick or Zack, or any of the others?

I don't get UP (or have cable) and I'm not sure if they've shown Carson's birth yet, but to compare him to another (disgraced) ATI husband Josh Duggar. I doubt that Chad would be napping while his wife is in labor (something that has been snarked on by this board before).

[formergothardite]

I wouldn't say it's harmful. It just isn't what I personally prefer.

Acting like characteristics that typically considered feminine are weak, wimpy, or negative is harmful. It is harmful for the girls who hear that characteristics associated with them are negative and not strong. It is harmful for the men who don't fit the mold of what society views as "manly".

No one is saying that you have to prefer a man like Chad, but the point is, you shouldn't act like Chad is wimpy or not strong because he doesn't fit into a patriarchal mold. And really, since you said he wasn't a strong man, and then listed him letting his wife paint the room pink as an example, what do think he should have done to be a strong man in that situation? Can you think of any other situations where he wasn't a strong man?

[Snarkylark]

I don't get UP (or have cable) and I'm not sure if they've shown Carson's birth yet, but to compare him to another (disgraced) ATI husband Josh Duggar. I doubt that Chad would be napping while his wife is in labor (something that has been snarked on by this board before).

Of course not. That's why I didn't mention josh. He's a tool.

[FundieFarmer]

He has a pink room and you don't find him attractive, that's all I got out of the explanation. We've determined we haven't seen him act in any sort of wimpy way and isn't physically or mentally wimpy. You said he reminds you of TFDW, but they don't have any traits in common.

As far as snarking on the pink room...I don't really give a flying fundie what color anybody's room is; I didn't then, and I don't know. More power to him. I can tell you that Mr. FF wouldn't be about it, but it's a matter of personal preference- which is essentially what I said when the discussion came up last time. I don't recall there ever being a tone of "wellllllll maybe he's not so into Erin if he put up with that!". In fact, I remember a tone that was almost completely praise that he would be willing to put aside any personal preferences he may have had in order for Erin to have what she wanted since she never had, which is a decidedly un-Fundie thing to do.

And that, right there, is why we see Chad differently than TFDW & Co. Example, Ken Alexander and his "Lori shall stand until it hurts" theology. David Waller and his "all women are beneath me forever" philosophy. PP and, well, all of his PP-ness. Those men don't display the strong, loving characteristics that I see in Chad, regardless of room color, and they certainly don't remind me of each other.

[Snarkylark]

Acting like characteristics that typically considered feminine are weak, wimpy, or negative is harmful. It is harmful for the girls who hear that characteristics associated with them are negative and not strong. It is harmful for the men who don't fit the mold of what society views as "manly".

No one is saying that you have to prefer a man like Chad, but the point is, you shouldn't act like Chad is wimpy or not strong because he doesn't fit into a patriarchal mold. And really, since you said he wasn't a strong man, and then listed him letting his wife paint the room pink as an example, what do think he should have done to be a strong man in that situation? Can you think of any other situations where he wasn't a strong man?

I can't say that Chad is either wimpy or strong as I don't know him personally, I can only base my opinions on what I have seen from a few minutes on TV. My exact words are that he "seems kind of wimpy or something" and I just don't get a strong male vibe from him like what I prefer. I'm not saying that it is wrong or makes him less of a man for him to act the way that I perceive he does. I think one of the posters up thread was probably on to something when they talked about his communication style as possibly having more female tendencies. And that's probably what I'm basing my opinions on. The pink bedroom wasn't directed at proving or disproving his manliness. It was to make a point that some have snarked on him in the past for it. And perhaps their opinion of him has changed since then. That's fine too. I couldn't care less what color his bedroom is. It's a little unusual tho.

I tried to explain why I didn't find him attractive but my words are being picked apart. There's absolutely nothing wrong with how Chad is. He's just not my type is all.

[grandmadugger]

So what I'm getting, if I'm reading this right is, Chad is lesser of a man because he has feminine traits and isn't a beat his chest kind of a man. Hmmm.... Isn't that what we bitch about on this board all the time? The men think because they have a penis get to run around beating their chest and telling everyone how great they are. We have a man who is the complete opposite of that and praises his wife, works to make her equal, and suffers through a bubble gum pink room because that's what makes her happy and he's the bad one.

Zach I can see helping Whit out around the house. I can't see any of the others doing that.

[Snarkylark]

So what I'm getting, if I'm reading this right is, Chad is lesser of a man because he has feminine traits and isn't a beat his chest kind of a man. Hmmm.... Isn't that what we bitch about on this board all the time? The men think because they have a penis get to run around beating their chest and telling everyone how great they are. We have a man who is the complete opposite of that and praises his wife, works to make her equal, and suffers through a bubble gum pink room because that's what makes her happy and he's the bad one.

Zach I can see helping Whit out around the house. I can't see any of the others doing that.

No, you didn't read that right at all! I didn't say he was bad or lesser of a man. I just said I don't prefer certain things about him and that I'm not attracted to him.

[HarryPotterFan]

No, you didn't read that right at all! I didn't say he was bad or lesser of a man. I just said I don't prefer certain things about him and that I'm not attracted to him.

So you are not attracted to him, therefore he's wimpy?

[LovelyLuna]

I like pink and was obsessed with it as a kid, but even I found that room vomitrocious. Chad could have genuinely liked it, or he could have not given a shit what the room looked like, or he could have just wanted to make Erin happy. Who knows.

In fact, I remember a tone that was almost completely praise that he would be willing to put aside any personal preferences he may have had in order for Erin to have what she wanted since she never had, which is a decidedly un-Fundie thing to do.

What this person said. having a pink room what the sweetest thing ever and took balls IMO.

Well sorry I didn't consult the dictionary before I posted. Smh. I did say "a wimp or something" indicating that I wasn't sure of the exact word choice or way to phrase it. It's just a vibe I get. You guys are relentless! Lol

They are relentless because this is supposed to be a place for intelligent snark, not bitch eating cracker snark. words have meaning and they can hurt. think before you speak, and when you make a blunder, apologies and then move on and learn from it. put some big girl (or boy) panties on and lets get back to the discussion.

anyways, someone back was talking about a son wanting to learn to fly, try the Civil Air Patrol, its like boy scouts and the air force rolled into one. they have 17 year olds getting their licensees and gong on to amazing jobs in he military and in the private sector.

[FundieFarmer]

I didn't read that Chad is a lesser man, necessarily, but I also think Chad as the manliest-of-manly-men definitely plays into the vision of a man that you're used to. For example, the men in my maiden-name family are all very much men's men. They run around with drills in their pickup trucks going to their construction jobs after which they'll have a beer and maybe shoot something or go fishing over the weekend. Chad's definitely not like that. But he's not totally effeminate either. I think that despite the fact that he's very handy, he's sensitive and maybe slightly metro (a la Todd Chrisley or pretty much any celebrity male), so he doesn't necessarily hold up to the idea of a burly, logger, man's man.

[Snarkylark]

I didn't read that Chad is a lesser man, necessarily, but I also think Chad as the manliest-of-manly-men definitely plays into the vision of a man that you're used to. For example, the men in my maiden-name family are all very much men's men. They run around with drills in their pickup trucks going to their construction jobs after which they'll have a beer and maybe shoot something or go fishing over the weekend. Chad's definitely not like that. But he's not totally effeminate either. I think that despite the fact that he's very handy, he's sensitive and maybe slightly metro (a la Todd Chrisley or pretty much any celebrity male), so he doesn't necessarily hold up to the idea of a burly, logger, man's man.

It's funny because I'm not really attracted to the burly, logger type, either. Maybe somewhere in the middle. Like you said, slightly metro;) I guess I just don't see Chad that way. Idk

[Bethella]

No, you didn't read that right at all! I didn't say he was bad or lesser of a man. I just said I don't prefer certain things about him and that I'm not attracted to him.

Well from where I sit it sure reads like you're saying that he's a lesser man because he doesn't meet your definition of a manly man.

Various quotes from Snarkylark over the last several pages:

I don't think he's a wimp because he has feminine traits. I just think he acts kind of wimpy AND acts a little feminine, IMO.

Just a little too soft for my taste.

I just don't get a strong male vibe from him like what I prefer.

I guess I never noticed any muscles. And I don't mean wimpy because he doesn't have muscles, but more wimpy in how he acts.

I just don't find him attractive as I like the more "manly man" type.

I just find him too feminine acting for my own tastes

[Snarkylark]

What this person said. having a pink room what the sweetest thing ever and took balls IMO.

They are relentless because this is supposed to be a place for intelligent snark, not bitch eating cracker snark. words have meaning and they can hurt. think before you speak, and when you make a blunder, apologies and then move on and learn from it. put some big girl (or boy) panties on and lets get back to the discussion.

anyways, someone back was talking about a son wanting to learn to fly, try the Civil Air Patrol, its like boy scouts and the air force rolled into one. they have 17 year olds getting their licensees and gong on to amazing jobs in he military and in the private sector.

How did I hurt anyone with MY opinion? Take it or leave it, it's how I feel. You don't have to like it OR agree with it. I find it interesting that I'm being berated for not being attracted to a fundie. Wth site am I on??

On another note, my son did the civil air patrol for a bit. It was great and he enjoyed it but didn't stay with it as he got older. I can't remember why.

[Snarkylark]

Well from where I sit it sure reads like you're saying that he's a lesser man because he doesn't meet your definition of a manly man.

Various quotes from Snarkylark over the last several pages:

How is anything I said saying he's less of a man? I never said that or implied it.

[Snarkylark]

I said I wasn't attracted to him like some of you are and those are the reasons why I feel that way. I never said he's less of a man than anyone else. Not my type. Please tell me where I said that Chad isn't a real man???

[Melissa1977]

Come On! Chad (as far as we know) is a great husband! Supportive, loving, hardworking, adores his wife.

Erin is lucky. Specially if you compare her to other fundies, but also in the non-fundie world.

When she was single, Erin seemed to me a bit cold, not very attached to little siblings. But as a mother, she seems warm and absolutely un love with Carson. So is Chad. Do you think they are training Carson, hitting him? Because I cannot See it, I just can't imagine them hurting the baby (same for Alyssa, Zach...). Well I hope so, I hope not all the fundies are so hard.

[princessmahina]

I think I may understand what you mean by "wimpy" (though I strongly disagree with that statement). On the show (what I saw before I quit cable, anyway), we saw the Bateses call on Chad to do handyman-type work for them. They jokingly said that the only way it would get done was if Chad did it. I think I remember some people saying that it seemed like they were almost taking advantage of him. I can see how some people would interpret this as weak; however, I see it as a man generously giving his time to his wife's family because he can see that they need him. He could easily give them the brush off or claim he doesn't have time, but rather chooses to help out where he can.

If his attitude about his wife's family is what makes you consider him wimpy, then I get it, though I don't agree. If it's just a random feeling, then I don't get it all. Just my $0.02.

[Kak]

How did I hurt anyone with MY opinion? Take it or leave it, it's how I feel. You don't have to like it OR agree with it. I find it interesting that I'm being berated for not being attracted to a fundie. Wth site am I on??

On another note, my son did the civil air patrol for a bit. It was great and he enjoyed it but didn't stay with it as he got older. I can't remembers why.

Are you serious? I've been to bed, had my breakfast and am about to start my new day. This nonsense has been going on all night?

You are not being berated for not fancying Chad. At all. You need to pay attention to the discussion or else we'll all be stuck in this infinite infinity loop. For infinity.

[BigSandy]

How about we change the conversation a little? This is getting boring to read, sorry guys, but it is!

[FundieFarmer]

How about we change the conversation a little? This is getting boring to read, sorry guys, but it is!

I have an honest-to-God question about posts like this. I tend to apply the same manners in forum conversations that I do in real life, and that doesn't include asking somebody to change the subject because I'm bored. There are plenty of conversations in threads I'm in that bore the damn tears out of me, but I've never asked this question...and yet in the past week, I've seen it several times. I legitimately am wondering, why not just bring up a topic you want to discuss? Or just keep discussing what interests you and ignore the conversation?

[formergothardite]

How about we change the conversation a little? This is getting boring to read, sorry guys, but it is!

I found it more interesting than the Bates shows. :lol: I think it is important to talk about the problems with this stereotype that men who have traits that are typically associated with women are someone not strong men or are wimpy in some way. Sorry it bores you, but it is something that people need to stop and think about. I didn't until it was brought up in a thread here.

[VelociRapture]

I make one bad joke last night and everything goes to Hell. :angry-banghead:

Seriously Snarkylark? If you think or feel like Chad is a wimp that's your right - but don't act like everyone is out to fucking get you when you get called out on your bullshit. Either own your statements and back them up with evidence you feels supports it or:

[HerNameIsBuffy]

How did I hurt anyone with MY opinion? Take it or leave it, it's how I feel. You don't have to like it OR agree with it. I find it interesting that I'm being berated for not being attracted to a fundie. Wth site am I on??

On another note, my son did the civil air patrol for a bit. It was great and he enjoyed it but didn't stay with it as he got older. I can't remember why.

In regards to the bolded the problem is perpetuating this kind of stereotype is harmful. Does it hurt Chad Paine in particular? Doubt it as I can't imagine he cares what anyone here thinks of him, good or bad. But as long as people keep alive the notion that guys who seem more sensitive are somehow seen (at least superficially) as less of a man than others it sends the message that it's not okay for them to be who they are. And some men (fundy, but not exclusively so) will put on the macho posture to distance themselves which sucks for them and the women in their lives.

It has less than nothing to do with whether you or anyone else finds him personally attractive. It's about labeling his behavior/mannerisms as wimpy without basis. It's basically saying that men who act like this (however you think he acts) are weak and ineffectual, when that's not true. If people labeled men who are actually weak and ineffectual as wimps I don't think you'd hear a lot of argument.

Joseph Maxwell not living in a house he owned because his daddy said he needed to stay home and share a room with his brother until marriage to me is weak. Being particularly considerate of your wife and being openly adoring isn't. Those two actions have no business sharing the same label.

I think the point being that this kind of crap hurts men is an important one. Maybe it's easier to see if you take it out of the fundy world and change the sexes: I work in a male dominated field in a male dominated industry. If some jackass on a message board shoots off his mouth about how women like me are bitches because we're not in stereo typically female roles in the workplace does it hurt me personally? No. That internet stranger has no control over my raises, career trajectory, how people who know me feel about me. But on the macro level it does hurt women as a whole every time someone spouts pejoratives whenever we dare step outside the box they want to keep us in. So those kind of statements need to be challenged because we'll all be better off when this shit it out of the cultural mindset and everyone can be who and how they are - as long as they aren't harming anyone else.

Anyway - thought twice about posting this but as an observer of the conversation I seemed to be going in circles because you're conflating not being attracted to him with why people have issues with calling him wimpy and they are completely unrelated.

Although there is one person to have cause to be annoyed with Chad Paine and that's my husband. I grew up in a pink room with a canopy bed and I love their initial bedroom (before the change to green) and am using them to make my case.

[HereticHick]

Kelli has a new Instagram post of the little Bates piled all around her while she read them a secular children's book.

When the Bates want to post a "look, we are better than the Duggars" pic, sometimes they really hit it out of the park.

My question--how calculated do you think these type of postings are (by the Bates or the UP channel, or both?), or do you really think they are totally spontaneous?

I'm curious about how much conscious thought goes into the Bates social media prescence, and is it changing the longer they stay on TV?

As for Chad, I'd hit it.

[Edit because of coffee deficit]

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Kelli has a new Instagram post of the little Bates piled all around her while she read them a secular children's book.

When the Bates want to post a "look, we are better than the Duggars" pic, sometimes they really hit it out of the park.

My question--how calculated do you think these type of postings are (by the Bates or the UP channel, or both?), or do you really think they are totally spontaneous?

I'm curious about how much conscious thought goes into the Bates social media prescence, and is it changing the longer they stay on TV?

As for Chad, I'd hit it.

[Edit because of coffee deficit]

God, these people are insidious with the cuteness sometimes...that pic makes me want to go home and reverse the aging process on my tiny quiver so I can snuggle again. This is why they are more dangerous than the Duggars...because I know better and for a split second wanted to be Kelly Bates. I've never wanted to be Michelle.