CA has mandatory vaccination/CA Bans Personal Belief Exemp

[EmmieJ]

Ok, let me get this straight

Vaccines work and are 100% safe, except when they don't, in which case the answer seems to be MORE vaccines! Did you all get a refund on the flu shot that didn't work last year?? The profits are going somewhere and the vaccine manufacturers are protected from any lawsuits. But now we want to require you to have their product if you want to attend public school. And how often do we hear about vaccine injuries? Not often. Do you think that possibly as part of their settlement that victims aren't allowed to talk about it?

I'm not anti-vac. Never have been. I already stated I am vaxxed, my kids are vaxxed against most things. I am against mandatory vaccines, esp when there is profit tied to it.

I'll repeat myself in regards to cost:

1. I got a flu shot last year. There was no charge to me. Sadly, I also got the flu and it really kicked my ass. Have not been that sick in years. But these things happen to us all.

2. My son has followed the recommended vaccine schedule since birth. I have never had even a co-pay due for any of his vaccines. He is covered through Kaiser.

3. Yes, you can say that the cost of these vaccines and/or flu shots are included in my monthly premium. So is a portion of the salaries Kaiser pays to their doctors, nurses, and all other staff. So is a portion of the cost of all the medical equipment, and everything else associated with providing health care to thousands, or possibly millions, of people. That's how a health care system is supposed to work - spread out the cost among a lot of patients, thereby making it affordable to most.

The for-profit big pharma industry is reprehensible, but they are busy pushing the newest pills for pain, depression, weight loss, etc. That doesn't really have any bearing on this topic of conversation. But, even if pharmaceutical companies are making a tidy profit on vaccines, that's still not relevant to the topic at hand, which is: should we put the benefits to the many over the desires of the few? I say yes. Parents who do not want to vaccinate their children can still opt out -- but they can no longer enroll their children in public schools in California (unless they are one of the few that have a genuine medical exemption). In other words, they no longer get to have their cake and eat it too.

[FundieFarmer]

Ok, let me get this straight

Vaccines work and are 100% safe, except when they don't, in which case the answer seems to be MORE vaccines! Did you all get a refund on the flu shot that didn't work last year?? The profits are going somewhere and the vaccine manufacturers are protected from any lawsuits. But now we want to require you to have their product if you want to attend public school. And how often do we hear about vaccine injuries? Not often. Do you think that possibly as part of their settlement that victims aren't allowed to talk about it?

I'm not anti-vac. Never have been. I already stated I am vaxxed, my kids are vaxxed against most things. I am against mandatory vaccines, esp when there is profit tied to it.

Under what model would there not be a profit?

[Petrel]

Hepatitis B causes long-term infection in a large majority of babies contracting it (usually at birth) and in up to half of children <6. Chronic infection can lead to cancer. Children can pass it on to each other through saliva or blood.

Since the vaccine is very effective and safe and the risks if a child gets hepatitis B are so high, children should be vaccinated at birth and get boosters as recommended.

[VelociRapture]

Ok, let me get this straight

Vaccines work and are 100% safe, except when they don't, in which case the answer seems to be MORE vaccines! Did you all get a refund on the flu shot that didn't work last year?? The profits are going somewhere and the vaccine manufacturers are protected from any lawsuits. But now we want to require you to have their product if you want to attend public school. And how often do we hear about vaccine injuries? Not often. Do you think that possibly as part of their settlement that victims aren't allowed to talk about it?

I'm not anti-vac. Never have been. I already stated I am vaxxed, my kids are vaxxed against most things. I am against mandatory vaccines, esp when there is profit tied to it.

No. I didn't get the Flu this past year, so there was no reason to demand a refund. In my case a combination of vaccination, good nutrition, and good sanitary habits kept me from getting sick.

Generally speaking, vaccines are safe and do work. The fact that many serious diseases - such as Polio - have been all but eradicated from the country is proof enough of that. Of course there are always going to be risks - that is true of any medical intervention. Multiple posters have attempted to explain that to you numerous times. If you don't get it by now that's not their fault.

Here are several articles for you to look into/ignore as you please:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/safety.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2553651/

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

The word 'choice' cannot be used to categorize everything into the same bundle! It is certainly my choice to go out and beat people up but it is not RIGHT. It would have a bad affect on OTHERS (note: don't even try to compare the potential victim to a barely viable and conscious fetus now).

And the Disneyland issue - isn't it a good reason to vaccinate as many locals as possible??? The more the better! Seriously, come on!

Especially considering this statistic: "The outbreak sickened 147 people in the U.S., including 131 in California."

And more importantly: 40 of the people who contracted measles were actually at Disneyland. That means 40 people infected 107 more people. And, since only 16 people lived outside of California, that means that the vast majority of the people infected were infected weren't infected because someone traveled outside the state; they were infected by people who stayed within the state. They were infected because of loose regulations.

[Snarkylark]

No. I didn't get the Flu this past year, so there was no reason to demand a refund. In my case a combination of vaccination, good nutrition, and good sanitary habits kept me from getting sick.

Generally speaking, vaccines are safe and do work. The fact that many serious diseases - such as Polio - have been all but eradicated from the country is proof enough of that. Of course there are always going to be risks - that is true of any medical intervention. Multiple posters have attempted to explain that to you numerous times. If you don't get it by now that's not their fault.

Here are several articles for you to look into/ignore as you please:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/safety.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2553651/

I didn't get the flu shot and I was one of the few who didn't get the flu or miss time from work.

[nokidsmom]

Preach. When I was little, before the Salk vaccine came out, neighborhood kids whose mothers were nurses wouldn't let them swim in other people's backyard pools or go to the beach, for fear of being exposed to polio. A friend's daughter contracted a virulent strain and was dead in 48 hours. My mom was pregnant during the rubella epidemic of 1964-5, and was terrified when my younger sister caught German measles.

Damn few of us senior citizens are anti-vaxers.

Oh yes, my late mom, who became a nurse, grew up in the years before the Salk vaccine came out. At one point, my mom, siblings and grandmother spent weeks at a summer cottage to get away from an outbreak that occurred in their area. You did everything you could to avoid contracting it, knowing all the while there were no guarantees. Everyone was terrified of the disease and it was considered a godsend when the first vaccine came out.

I have a friend that unfortunately contracted polio shortly before the Salk vaccine, he survived seemingly unscathed, but now is dealing with post polio syndrome as well.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Quick question. Is RN in the USA the same as the UK in which you register with the American equivalent professional body. Here it being the NMC (Nursing Midwifery Council) For this you have to study four years at university. You study these four years in the field you wish to practice for example Adult Nursing, Midwifery, Paediatric or Mental Health. Only after this and the required hours of accredited practical placements and assessments you are then qualified and registered. You are required to re register annually and prove your fitness to practise through practical, academic and personal reflection.

Or is there some Jill Duggar type of nursing I'm unaware of? Is this what Snarklark is...because I'm frankly quite frightened :shock:

Ethicly I find it reprehensible that a does of the hives would be mentioned as a reason to not protect vulnerable patients who are at risk of dying. If wearing PC and or masks are not allowed which would seem extremely odd, then in all conscience either the nurse or those not providing a means to protect vulnerable patients are failing in healthcare.

There are too many things questionable in this 'story' (I know it's the interwebs) But a healthcare worker displaying such ignorance on such basic nursing/medical knowledge is downright frightening.

So Ezzo supporting, ant-vaxxer and now can add abortion as killing to the list and Hitler for some reason.

I had a lovely meal by the way. The best ever Langoustine, the time and effort it takes to eat those suckers is definitely worth it :lol:

From what I have gathered based on discussions elsewhere on this website (and I'm completely not at all a medical professional, so this is all hearsay basically), you can become a RN (Registered Nurse) by becoming an LPN (a Licensed Practical Nurse) or LVN (Licensed Vocational Nurse) (in the UK, they'd be called "state enrolled nurses") and then having a certain number of professional hours afterwards, or by getting a 4 year nursing degree.

Some people, like many of my friends, get a masters or higher in nursing, which you can't receive if you go from an LPN to an RN without a 4 year degree. I believe they're called APNs (Advanced Practice Nurses). One of my friends is working on a DNP (Doctor of Nurse Practice), but I'm not sure if she'd still have the title APN after receiving her doctorate or not.

[Snarkylark]

Hepatitis B causes long-term infection in a large majority of babies contracting it (usually at birth) and in up to half of children <6. Chronic infection can lead to cancer. Children can pass it on to each other through saliva or blood.

Since the vaccine is very effective and safe and the risks if a child gets hepatitis B are so high, children should be vaccinated at birth and get boosters as recommended.

Hep B cannot be spread through saliva or casual contact. http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/hbv/bfaq.htm#bFAQ10

I stated healthy newborns born to healthy mothers do not need the hep B vaccine. If there is any doubt, titers can be and I'm pretty sure are routinely done at the first prenatal checkup.

[Snarkylark]

Oh yes, my late mom, who became a nurse, grew up in the years before the Salk vaccine came out. At one point, my mom, siblings and grandmother spent weeks at a summer cottage to get away from an outbreak that occurred in their area. You did everything you could to avoid contracting it, knowing all the while there were no guarantees. Everyone was terrified of the disease and it was considered a godsend when the first vaccine came out.

I have a friend that unfortunately contracted polio shortly before the Salk vaccine, he survived seemingly unscathed, but now is dealing with post polio syndrome as well.

Tell me where I said we shouldn't vaccinate against polio

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

That collection of excerpts from scientific journals backs up that claim.

You mean that collection that someone upthread completely debunked by showing that they were talking about how we NEED to immunize? Yea, that's definitely a "collection of excerpts from scientific journals" that "backs up that claim"

[Snarkylark]

From what I have gathered based on discussions elsewhere on this website (and I'm completely not at all a medical professional, so this is all hearsay basically), you can become a RN (Registered Nurse) by becoming an LPN (a Licensed Practical Nurse) or LVN (Licensed Vocational Nurse) (in the UK, they'd be called "state enrolled nurses") and then having a certain number of professional hours afterwards, or by getting a 4 year nursing degree.

Some people, like many of my friends, get a masters or higher in nursing, which you can't receive if you go from an LPN to an RN without a 4 year degree. I believe they're called APNs (Advanced Practice Nurses). One of my friends is working on a DNP (Doctor of Nurse Practice), but I'm not sure if she'd still have the title APN after receiving her doctorate or not.

One cannot become an RN from LPN without the required schooling. Graduation from an accredited RN nursing program is required to sit for RN boards. There is no professional hours way to certification to sit for boards. There is no back door way in.

[Snarkylark]

But there are two year RN programs. One does not have to go to a four year program to obtain qualification to take boards. Two year programs tend to be more hands on and focused. Four year programs spend a lot of time on leadership, management, research, public health, etc. my work paid for my BSN:)

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Ok, let me get this straight

Vaccines work and are 100% safe, except when they don't, in which case the answer seems to be MORE vaccines! Did you all get a refund on the flu shot that didn't work last year?? The profits are going somewhere and the vaccine manufacturers are protected from any lawsuits. But now we want to require you to have their product if you want to attend public school. And how often do we hear about vaccine injuries? Not often. Do you think that possibly as part of their settlement that victims aren't allowed to talk about it?

I'm not anti-vac. Never have been. I already stated I am vaxxed, my kids are vaxxed against most things. I am against mandatory vaccines, esp when there is profit tied to it.

My vaccines are FREE. No one is making a profit off of my vaccines. Not to mention, if the companies REALLY wanted to make a profit, they'd actually let you get sick. There's a lot more money in TREATING than PREVENTING.

Furthermore, did it really "not work" or are you only complaining that it didn't work because other strains happened? Here's a little bit of information you CLEARLY seem to be lacking: there are roughly about 5 strains used in a flu vaccine every year. They choose the ones they predict will be the ones people are most at risk for. However, they cannot predict the future beyond current statistics. And they definitely can't predict new strains.

Unless you can sit there and say that EVERY SINGLE person who received a flu vaccine was not at all exposed to the strains chosen for this year's vaccine or that in the majority of cases where someone who had been vaccinated contracted the strain they had been vaccinated against, you have no ability to state that they were ineffective or useless.

Therefore, your statement proves my suspicions that I stated up thread that you clearly do not know how vaccines and the immune system work, and you also just proved that you don't know how viruses work.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

My daughter can make that choice for herself.

Based on your arguments, I wouldn't expect your daughter to have a very good handle on the benefits of the HPV vaccine or its importance in her life. Therefore, she'd be making the same choice you'd want her to make, which apparently is to leave herself vulnerable.

[OkToBeTakei]

We've got the CNA - Certified Nurse Assistant. It's a pretty short course. These people do the jobs no one else wants to do. Like wiping shit off of people, handing out medicine, baths, maybe vital signs. They have very little training and make very little money. I had a friend who did this for a while. Said it sucked a lot.

Then the LPN - Licensed Practical (?racticing?) Nurse. This is a longer certification. These people do all the same things as the CNA, make more money and have slightly more responsibility, like records and supervised injections. My mom told me these people lose their jobs first, because they aren't as vital as an RN, and are paid more than a CNA.

The RN is a Registered Nurse and they do everything that Nurses do and supervise the other Nurses. They make more money and can make nursing diagnoses. This is what most people thing of when they think "nurse". It's a four year degree. For some reason I've heard most of my life that there is nursing shortages but all of the schools have a waitlist to get into the program.

I think there are different levels of Nurses too, like Advanced Nurse and Nurse Midwifes and Nurse Practitioners. That's the graduate level of Nursing.

Yes all 'Nurses' here are degree or graduate. There is no just 'nurse' as the OP described. The system has changed over the years. There used to be Enrolled nurses many years ago but that programme does not exist anymore. There alos used to be dedicated Nursing colleges bormally attached to a hospital, again this is no longer the case.

The normal or quicker entry would be straight to BsC in Nursing dependent on course requirements and exam results. There is access to nursing courses at Community (I think that is what you guys call it from previous conversations.) Normally a year or two years then on to the four year degree. I think though don't take as fact you can skpi the first year of the Degree course depending on which access course you do, anecdotally I know this as I'm helping a friend look at this.

Nurses though or Midwifes are all graduates. There is no in -between. An RMN is an RMN not a midwife just as a A Midwife is not a Paediatric nurse. They are different disciplines. You can dual train or go on to change discipline post grad. Further study.

You would not be permitted to nurse/practice until after you have graduated.

CNA is Care-assistant here and they study a different system. Vocational qualifications and as you described they can progress to Senior Care assistant which sounds like the LPN you described. They can take on more responsibility, skills etc.

A good SCA is worth their weight but I agree the pay is dreadful. It has been adressed here recently by my Government which has been long needed. They also now have to register with a professional body and prove fitness to practice, accountability.

The nurse practitioners you describe is similar. An adult nurse for instance may choose an aspect of nursing and undertake further study to become say a Nurse Practitioner in Tissue Viability or Palliative care.

Simply speaking. All nurses have a four year degree before they set a hand on a patient unsupervised. I just took a long way of trying to find out the differences :lol:

I'm just confused as to how somebody who has only studied for two years can be a nurse, but I see now they are just using that to access the other course, correct?

Carers as you described do get the worst end of the deal. I find it sad and angering that people who may care for the most vulnerable section of society do so with poor training and are paid commonly minimum wage, this is a job which should be valued more than certain other minimum wage jobs. I'm ecstatic that at long last it is being recognised in my demographic, along with accountability.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I didn't get the flu shot and I was one of the few who didn't get the flu or miss time from work.

That means nothing. There's a VERY BIG difference between THE FLU and "flu like symptoms." MANY viruses and bacterium can cause "flu like symptoms" without actually being the flu. Unless you can prove that all the people who got sick had the flu vaccine AND were diagnosed with THE FLU (which, as a nurse, you should know requires an actual test to prove), your statement is the same as me saying "I work with kids all the time, and they all got sick but I never missed a day of work." All it shows is that your immune system was either stronger or that you weren't directly exposed to the pathogens they were. It does nothing to prove the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of a vaccine.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Tell me where I said we shouldn't vaccinate against polio

So, we should vaccinate against polio, but we shouldn't vaccinate against other things? Plus, you're the one who said that you shouldn't vaccinate because of "vaccine injuries" (which is a load of crap, by the way). So, are vaccines worth the "risk of vaccine injuries" and "effective enough" for polio, but they're not for anything else? Talk about cognitive dissonance.

[apple1]

On page 2 of this thread:

I was forced to get a mandatory flu vaccine for work. I had hives for months but I couldn't PROVE it was from the vaccine. It also triggered an autoimmune attack or precipitated its development as I found out I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

On page 10:

I addressed this earlier. I had to get the flu shot or lose my job.

Did you know that CMS is tying reimbursement to hospital employee vaccination rates? So we have been sold out by our employers to get a vaccine that last year was 23% effective so they can get all their Medicare reimbursements.

And now:

I didn't get the flu shot and I was one of the few who didn't get the flu or miss time from work.

It seems that we have a lying liar who lies - and who is not smart enough to keep her stories straight.

[Snarkylark]

nursesagainstmandatoryvaccines.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/right-to-choice/

[Snarkylark]

On page 2 of this thread:

On page 10:

And now:

It seems that we have a lying liar who lies - and who is not smart enough to keep her stories straight.

I had to get the flu shot in 2013. That was the year I had a suspected reaction. For the year 2014 I got a medical exemption from my doctor so I didn't have to get the flu shot this past season and for the remainder of my employment with the organization I'm with now. Clear enough for you?

[Snarkylark]

So, we should vaccinate against polio, but we shouldn't vaccinate against other things? Plus, you're the one who said that you shouldn't vaccinate because of "vaccine injuries" (which is a load of crap, by the way). So, are vaccines worth the "risk of vaccine injuries" and "effective enough" for polio, but they're not for anything else? Talk about cognitive dissonance.

I never said we shouldn't vaccinate. I'm for choice.

[SpeakNow]

Tell me where I said we shouldn't vaccinate against polio

Well, you'd be allowing parents to randomly decide not to vaccinate against polio which would potentially allow people who could not get the vaccine and young babies to be unnecessarily exposed to polio. So...

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

nursesagainstmandatoryvaccines.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/right-to-choice/

Oh look, another blog. Like I said, if you want your posts to taken with any amount of credibility, you'll find real, credible sources. Anyone can make a blog. It requires actual work to find real, credible information, and that's the only type of information I care about.

For the record, you can't even claim that it's credible because of the profession the person holds. Why? Because a woman I met at the park one day read a blog "from a occupational and physical therapist" that claimed that children wouldn't develop proper balance if they didn't jump from high heights (6 feet and higher) as early as 18 months old. And, if they didn't learn that balance skill, they'd have serious emotional, mental, and physical delays throughout life. As a result, she decided that her 4 year old daughter MUST jump from the highest part of the playscape until she learned how to land properly. (I wish to god I could say I made that up.) She also instructed the other parents in her mommy group to do the same thing with their children (ages 2-5).

The internet is a very dangerous place for people who don't do their due diligence and find real, credible sources of their information before acting upon it.

[Snarkylark]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102473744