CA has mandatory vaccination/CA Bans Personal Belief Exemp

[formergothardite]

calivaxchoice.com/debunking-herd-immunity/

In Houston, Texas in 1989, there was an outbreak of 4200 cases of measles in fully immunized populations in one high school and two intermediate schools.

More than half of measles cases occurred among appropriately vaccinated children 5-19 years of age. Primary vaccine failure (rather than waning of vaccine-induced immunity) may be the major reason for the occurrence of measles in this group (5). To reduce the number of primary vaccine failure-related cases, the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP) has recommended a routine two-dose measles vaccine schedule (6). The initial dose is to be administered to children at 15 months of age, except for children in high-risk areas for preschool transmission, who should be vaccinated at 12 months of age. The second dose is recommended at school entry (4-6 years of age), although localities can choose other ages, such as entry to middle school or junior high school

cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001522.htm

So it appears that in this case there was primary vaccine failure and to reduce the case of this happening they recommend two doses. So this doesn't actually prove that herd immunity doesn't work.

Texas recorded a 41 percent increase in cases of chicken pox from 2005 to 2006, despite an eight-year-old requirement that children be vaccinated before they can enter kindergarten.

Because people can catch chicken pox following one dose of varicella vaccine, called a breakthrough case, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommends getting a second dose, sometimes called a booster shot. With the two doses, only one out of 10 people will experience a breakthrough case.

Texas reported a 41 percent spike in chicken pox cases in its statewide school system for 2005-2006. The state has only required one dose of the varicella vaccination for the past eight years; it does not recommend a booster shot for children between 4 and 6 years old. Consequently, the increase could be attributed to children catching the virus after one dose of the vaccine (breakthrough cases). Texas state health officials are now investigating whether to require that booster shot for the 2008-2009 school year

Again, doesn't disprove herd immunity.

During 2006, a total of 6584 confirmed and probable cases of mumps were reported to the CDC and most of these, 5865, occurred between January 1 and July 31. The peak of the outbreak was in April and seemed to be focused on college campuses in 9 midwestern states. College campuses with mumps outbreaks included ones with 97% of students having had 2 doses of a mumps vaccine.

A large mumps outbreak occurred despite high two-dose vaccination coverage in a population most of whom had received the second dose >10 years before. Two-dose vaccine effectiveness was similar to previous one-dose estimates. Further studies are needed to examine the persistence of two-dose mumps vaccine-induced immunity and to determine whether US mumps elimination can be achieved with the current vaccination strategy.

.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X08005495

Still not debunking herd immunity.

The czech republic has had a two dose MMR vaccination programme since 1987. The last outbreak of mumps was reported in 2002, but an increase in the number of mumps cases was observed in 2005, starting in October that year. In an 18 month period examined, 5,998 cases of mumps were notified, with a peak incidence in May of 2006. The highest incidence rate was observed in those in the age group of 15 to 19 years, in which 87% of the cases had received two doses of mumps vaccine

Though the reported data indicate high vaccine coverage achieved (97-100%), in a seroprevalence survey conducted in 2001, the prevalence of antibodies against mumps in age group 1-15 years (average 79%, range 70-86%) failed to correspond with declared mumps vaccination coverage rate of 97-100% [6]. The herd immunity induced is considered insufficient to prevent epidemics of mumps [7].

As a result of this outbreak, a voluntary vaccination offer was advertised in the Moravian regions (east of the Czech Republic) and subsequently in the whole country. Males aged 15-25 years were targeted, to decrease the impact of complications, but were required to pay for the vaccination themselves. It is not known how many people responded to this campaign, so it is not possible to evaluate the effectiveness of this control measure. However, the number of cases reported to Epidat after the period described returned to the expected range, indicating that the outbreak had ended

eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=18842

This does not debunk herd immunity.

[formergothardite]

230 cases of Measles occurred in a fully immunized population in the Qassim province of Saudi Arabia, during January-August of 2007.

Jahan S, Measles outbreak in Qassim, Saudi Arabia 2007: epidemiology and evaluation of outbreak response, J Public Health (Oxf); 2008 Dec;30(4):384-90

This one I went directly to the PubMed abstract about this article and this is what the conclusion was.

This outbreak demonstrates the increased susceptibility of unvaccinated children aged 6-11 months. To prevent future outbreaks, community awareness, review of measles vaccination schedule, enhanced surveillance and measles 'catch-up' mass immunization campaign to interrupt chains of transmission, are required.

Calivaxchoice decided to not include that part. Can't think of why. :roll: But again, it isn't debunking herd immunity and at this point I rather doubt any of the cases they list do.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18716046

[HarryPotterFan]

Mandatory vaccinations also protect children (through herd immunity) who are unable to be vaccinated due to health reasons, such as autoimmune disorders or leukemia. If these children were exposed to any of the diseases that vaccinations prevent, the results would be devastating.

Also, in cases where vaccinated children get the disease the symptoms are much less severe.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I live in California, all my kids are fully vaccinated, but mandating vaccines makes me extremely uncomfortable. It's a slippery slope once the government starts mandating what you put in your child's body, what's next. Every one is entitled to their opinions, this is mine and I respect those who disagree with me and I know this is a very hot topic.

Also, I am curious how California which is a huge tourist destination, is going to ensure all tourists are fully vaccinated before entering California and hitting up popular tourist spots like Disneyland. The recent Measles outbreak was linked to an Asiatic strain from the Philippines. Yes, making sure all public school kids are vaccinated helps herd immunity, but this is California, there are going to be those who don't have the vaccines/not up to date rolling around.

Before this law, only 19 states allowed personal belief exemptions (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin), and Missouri had one for daycares and preschools. Before this law, 2 states (Mississippi and West Virginia) allowed nothing but medical exemptions (no state is allowed to require those with medical exemptions to get immunizations, for obvious reasons). Unless you're going to sit there and tell me that all the states that don't allow personal belief exemptions or any exemptions at all are complete totalitarian states, you don't really have a foot to stand on.

Also, the law DOES NOT affect things like Disneyland. The law affects school enrollment procedures. The law states that your options are: vaccinate your children (unless they have a medical reason not to be vaccinated) or find a method of schooling that doesn't involve them being in a public school.

Edited cause I know my geography.......

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

calivaxchoice.com/debunking-herd-immunity/

Yea, cause anything with the word "choice" and a slang term in the url is definitely, 100% going to be an accurate representation of science.

How about this: IF you're going to use .com urls as "scientific evidence," make sure they're from reputable sources. Which is hard to find when you're only working with .com. In fact, it's so hard to find that when I was in school, I wasn't allowed to use .com websites for research papers on any topic UNLESS they were reputable news sources used in place of a reputable newspaper. If you want to be taken seriously with a url, make sure its .edu (of a reputable institution or a website like Academia.edu, which posts published papers and studies that are either peer reviewed or are to be open for peer review) or .gov. A .org may be used if you can prove the reputation of the organization and they use published studies (preferably that are peer reviewed).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

There are many examples there of the rate being over 90% and the vaccines not offering protection.

Where. Don't just say that without backing up your claim.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Mandatory vaccinations also protect children (through herd immunity) who are unable to be vaccinated due to health reasons, such as autoimmune disorders or leukemia. If these children were exposed to any of the diseases that vaccinations prevent, the results would be devastating.

Also, in cases where vaccinated children get the disease the symptoms are much less severe.

It's not just children. When my dad was starting chemo for Leukemia the first time, EVERYONE in the family had to receive vaccination boosters, and my dad had to receive all the vaccines in hopes that, when the majority of his white blood cells were killed, he'd have even a few that might help prevent one of the diseases from getting a foothold in his body. My dad's immune system was killed off so much that we weren't allowed in the house if we even had so much as a throat tickle. And he ended up in the hospital for 2 weeks with an infection that was probably introduced to his system within a couple days of the beginning of his treatment, and which caused his fever to fluctuate between 103 and 105 for a week straight. And what he had was likely no more than a common cold (all the diagnostic tests came back showing that he didn't have any of the testable illnesses). I can't imagine what a vaccine preventable disease would have done to him. If he had contracted one of those, he probably would not have lived.

[tropaka]

I need a measles shot - was just tested as I was born in 71 and apparently did not receive a second dose. I could be exposed/catch measles from an infected/unvaxxed child. I also had an uncle who died of measles in the 30's, before vaccination.

I believe it is not asking too much for children in public schools to be up to date on their vaccinations - belief has nothing to do with science/communicable disease. This protects children who are exempt for medical reasons and people who feel really strongly can have their children learn at home/independently. I used to be of the opposite opinion but now I'm leaning more towards the interest of public health vs individual/parental choice - especially since many of the claims of antivax groups seem to be out-dated or debunked.

[Edhelfin]

The word 'choice' cannot be used to categorize everything into the same bundle! It is certainly my choice to go out and beat people up but it is not RIGHT. It would have a bad affect on OTHERS (note: don't even try to compare the potential victim to a barely viable and conscious fetus now).

And the Disneyland issue - isn't it a good reason to vaccinate as many locals as possible??? The more the better! Seriously, come on!

[tropaka]

Okay, just read that newborns are given Hep B shots in the States. I don't think we give that immunization until age 12 or 13 here (Canada), so I can get that argument. In terms of flu shots - that is not mandatory in CA is it? It's not mandatory here and my only argument against it is that they mess up and get the wrong strain. I get it anyway (after having landed in the hospital with the flu 3 years ago).

The nurses unions have often been at odds with policies to either vaccinate or wear a mask re the flu shots because of mismatches.

[OkToBeTakei]

Quick question. Is RN in the USA the same as the UK in which you register with the American equivalent professional body. Here it being the NMC (Nursing Midwifery Council) For this you have to study four years at university. You study these four years in the field you wish to practice for example Adult Nursing, Midwifery, Paediatric or Mental Health. Only after this and the required hours of accredited practical placements and assessments you are then qualified and registered. You are required to re register annually and prove your fitness to practise through practical, academic and personal reflection.

Or is there some Jill Duggar type of nursing I'm unaware of? Is this what Snarklark is...because I'm frankly quite frightened :shock:

Ethicly I find it reprehensible that a does of the hives would be mentioned as a reason to not protect vulnerable patients who are at risk of dying. If wearing PC and or masks are not allowed which would seem extremely odd, then in all conscience either the nurse or those not providing a means to protect vulnerable patients are failing in healthcare.

There are too many things questionable in this 'story' (I know it's the interwebs) But a healthcare worker displaying such ignorance on such basic nursing/medical knowledge is downright frightening.

So Ezzo supporting, ant-vaxxer and now can add abortion as killing to the list and Hitler for some reason.

I had a lovely meal by the way. The best ever Langoustine, the time and effort it takes to eat those suckers is definitely worth it :lol:

[apple1]

Quick question. Is RN in the USA the same as the UK in which you register with the American equivalent professional body. Here it being the NMC (Nursing Midwifery Council) For this you have to study four years at university. You study these four years in the field you wish to practice for example Adult Nursing, Midwifery, Paediatric or Mental Health. Only after this and the required hours of accredited practical placements and assessments you are then qualified and registered. You are required to re register annually and prove your fitness to practise through practical, academic and personal reflection.

Or is there some Jill Duggar type of nursing I'm unaware of? Is this what Snarklark is...because I'm frankly quite frightened :shock:

Ethicly I find it reprehensible that a does of the hives would be mentioned as a reason to not protect vulnerable patients who are at risk of dying. If wearing PC and or masks are not allowed which would seem extremely odd, then in all conscience either the nurse or those not providing a means to protect vulnerable patients are failing in healthcare.

There are too many things questionable in this 'story' (I know it's the interwebs) But a healthcare worker displaying such ignorance on such basic nursing/medical knowledge is downright frightening.

So Ezzo supporting, ant-vaxxer and now can add abortion as killing to the list and Hitler for some reason.

I had a lovely meal by the way. The best ever Langoustine, the time and effort it takes to eat those suckers is definitely worth it :lol:

Short answer: No, there is not a "Jill Duggar" type of nursing in the US. Nurses must complete the required formal education, take and pass the required licensing exam, after which they are licensed by the state in which they work. They must maintain formal licensure to work as an RN.

[Maggie Mae]

Quick question. Is RN in the USA the same as the UK in which you register with the American equivalent professional body. Here it being the NMC (Nursing Midwifery Council) For this you have to study four years at university. You study these four years in the field you wish to practice for example Adult Nursing, Midwifery, Paediatric or Mental Health. Only after this and the required hours of accredited practical placements and assessments you are then qualified and registered. You are required to re register annually and prove your fitness to practise through practical, academic and personal reflection.

Or is there some Jill Duggar type of nursing I'm unaware of? Is this what Snarklark is...because I'm frankly quite frightened :shock:

Ethicly I find it reprehensible that a does of the hives would be mentioned as a reason to not protect vulnerable patients who are at risk of dying. If wearing PC and or masks are not allowed which would seem extremely odd, then in all conscience either the nurse or those not providing a means to protect vulnerable patients are failing in healthcare.

There are too many things questionable in this 'story' (I know it's the interwebs) But a healthcare worker displaying such ignorance on such basic nursing/medical knowledge is downright frightening.

So Ezzo supporting, ant-vaxxer and now can add abortion as killing to the list and Hitler for some reason.

I had a lovely meal by the way. The best ever Langoustine, the time and effort it takes to eat those suckers is definitely worth it :lol:

We've got the CNA - Certified Nurse Assistant. It's a pretty short course. These people do the jobs no one else wants to do. Like wiping shit off of people, handing out medicine, baths, maybe vital signs. They have very little training and make very little money. I had a friend who did this for a while. Said it sucked a lot.

Then the LPN - Licensed Practical (?racticing?) Nurse. This is a longer certification. These people do all the same things as the CNA, make more money and have slightly more responsibility, like records and supervised injections. My mom told me these people lose their jobs first, because they aren't as vital as an RN, and are paid more than a CNA.

The RN is a Registered Nurse and they do everything that Nurses do and supervise the other Nurses. They make more money and can make nursing diagnoses. This is what most people thing of when they think "nurse". It's a four year degree. For some reason I've heard most of my life that there is nursing shortages but all of the schools have a waitlist to get into the program.

I think there are different levels of Nurses too, like Advanced Nurse and Nurse Midwifes and Nurse Practitioners. That's the graduate level of Nursing.

[Petrel]

As a person who gave vaccines and obtained informed consent from parents, I have to say that many of the people refusing, had done no research other than relying on hearsay. I would always tell them to do some research, and then give some written information and in addition, offer websites to peruse, to balance out the Pharm controlled written info/data available. I definetly think a balanced, educated approach is better. In my perfect world, the vaccine time schedule would be increased-it's all about money though, so that's why they give some many immunizations at one time; captive audience.

But I will say, many, if not most of those who refused, were doing so more because they could (advocacy in hyperdrive) vs for any medically grounded or scientific reason.

I think the state of CA just decided that the bandwagon approach had to end.

The CDC comes up with vaccine schedules, not vaccine manufacturers. They take into account the ages most vulnerable to infection with a particular disease, potential side effects of the vaccines, and any interactions between vaccines that could alter their effectiveness.

They also take into account the fact that splitting shots up makes it much less likely a child will get all the necessary shots, because most parents don't have the flexibility to run their kids to the doctor every month or two for two years straight.

I'm a little concerned you gave parents "websites" to counter "Pharm controlled" data. You know that's based on studies, right?

[VelociRapture]

Okay, just read that newborns are given Hep B shots in the States. I don't think we give that immunization until age 12 or 13 here (Canada), so I can get that argument. In terms of flu shots - that is not mandatory in CA is it? It's not mandatory here and my only argument against it is that they mess up and get the wrong strain. I get it anyway (after having landed in the hospital with the flu 3 years ago).

The nurses unions have often been at odds with policies to either vaccinate or wear a mask re the flu shots because of mismatches.

As far as I know the Flu shot is not required in the states. For some jobs - such as those who work in Healthcare - the employer may require you to have one. For the most part though, it is a personal choice. I got one last year because one of my co-workers was pregnant. I plan to continue getting it from now on (unless I'm pregnant and they advise against it) because I'm of child-bearing age and it just seems like the responsible choice for me.

If you'd like more information regarding California's list of mandatory vaccines, try looking at:

shotsforschool.org

It appears that the vaccines are mostly just the big ones: DTaP (Diptheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis), Polio, Hep B, MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella), and Varicella (Chickenpox).

[Snarkylark]

Yea, cause anything with the word "choice" and a slang term in the url is definitely, 100% going to be an accurate representation of science.

How about this: IF you're going to use .com urls as "scientific evidence," make sure they're from reputable sources. Which is hard to find when you're only working with .com. In fact, it's so hard to find that when I was in school, I wasn't allowed to use .com websites for research papers on any topic UNLESS they were reputable news sources used in place of a reputable newspaper. If you want to be taken seriously with a url, make sure its .edu (of a reputable institution or a website like Academia.edu, which posts published papers and studies that are either peer reviewed or are to be open for peer review) or .gov. A .org may be used if you can prove the reputation of the organization and they use published studies (preferably that are peer reviewed).

It's a blog and a collection of information. I believe every statistic there is from a published journal.

[Snarkylark]

Where. Don't just say that without backing up your claim.

That collection of excerpts from scientific journals backs up that claim.

[SassyPants]

The CDC comes up with vaccine schedules, not vaccine manufacturers. They take into account the ages most vulnerable to infection with a particular disease, potential side effects of the vaccines, and any interactions between vaccines that could alter their effectiveness.

They also take into account the fact that splitting shots up makes it much less likely a child will get all the necessary shots, because most parents don't have the flexibility to run their kids to the doctor every month or two for two years straight.

I'm a little concerned you gave parents "websites" to counter "Pharm controlled" data. You know that's based on studies, right?

I've been around the block enough times to know who controls the studies and the data...most working professionals know.

Research involves looking at data from more than one $ide, especially if money is involved in the process.

Let's not pretend that health care is the only motivator.

Even in the hospital when vaccines are ordered, they are all ordered at the same time. As a HCP, I would never inject my patient with 8 vaccines at the same time. The 5-1 is enough at one time. Common sense, if there was a reaction, the cause would be unknown.

All or nothing thinking does not work in HC (it's an art as well as a science).

[Snarkylark]

Quick question. Is RN in the USA the same as the UK in which you register with the American equivalent professional body. Here it being the NMC (Nursing Midwifery Council) For this you have to study four years at university. You study these four years in the field you wish to practice for example Adult Nursing, Midwifery, Paediatric or Mental Health. Only after this and the required hours of accredited practical placements and assessments you are then qualified and registered. You are required to re register annually and prove your fitness to practise through practical, academic and personal reflection.

Or is there some Jill Duggar type of nursing I'm unaware of? Is this what Snarklark is...because I'm frankly quite frightened :shock:

Ethicly I find it reprehensible that a does of the hives would be mentioned as a reason to not protect vulnerable patients who are at risk of dying. If wearing PC and or masks are not allowed which would seem extremely odd, then in all conscience either the nurse or those not providing a means to protect vulnerable patients are failing in healthcare.

There are too many things questionable in this 'story' (I know it's the interwebs) But a healthcare worker displaying such ignorance on such basic nursing/medical knowledge is downright frightening.

So Ezzo supporting, ant-vaxxer and now can add abortion as killing to the list and Hitler for some reason.

I had a lovely meal by the way. The best ever Langoustine, the time and effort it takes to eat those suckers is definitely worth it :lol:

There are different paths to RN in the states. I got my Associates degree first, passed my boards and then went on to get my BSN. One can do a two year technical college program or four year college or university and I believe some states have a three year diploma as well. No matter what nursing program out of the above that one does, the boards are still the same. As to the advanced nursing practice that you reference above, that is considered a masters degree here. So one would have to have a BSN and then go on to get a MSN in midwifery, nurse practitioner, crna, etc.

[tropaka]

if the snips on that site are indeed true it means we need more effective vaccines/ways of testing their efficacy, not that herd immunity doesn't exist or that we shouldn't vaccinate. Since the outbreak of chicken pox, they've updated the schedule to add another dose.

Re nursing - in Ontario an RN must hold a B.Sc.

[Snarkylark]

As far as I know the Flu shot is not required in the states. For some jobs - such as those who work in Healthcare - the employer may require you to have one. For the most part though, it is a personal choice. I got one last year because one of my co-workers was pregnant. I plan to continue getting it from now on (unless I'm pregnant and they advise against it) because I'm of child-bearing age and it just seems like the responsible choice for me.

If you'd like more information regarding California's list of mandatory vaccines, try looking at:

shotsforschool.org

It appears that the vaccines are mostly just the big ones: DTaP (Diptheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis), Polio, Hep B, MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella), and Varicella (Chickenpox).

Thank you for that link. I still don't agree that children need Hep B for school unless they are drug users or having sex:/

Yes, there ARE employers that demand the flu shot as a condition of employment. Every year. Some organizations will allow one to wear a mask and decline the shot. Mine is not one of them. There are plenty of objections to that situation as well.

[FundieFarmer]

If you don't think they need HepB unless they're doing drugs or having sex, what're your thoughts on the HPV vax? Please please don't give me the "wait until marriage and only marry a husband who is clean" argument- it has SO many flaws.

[Snarkylark]

Ok, let me get this straight

Vaccines work and are 100% safe, except when they don't, in which case the answer seems to be MORE vaccines! Did you all get a refund on the flu shot that didn't work last year?? The profits are going somewhere and the vaccine manufacturers are protected from any lawsuits. But now we want to require you to have their product if you want to attend public school. And how often do we hear about vaccine injuries? Not often. Do you think that possibly as part of their settlement that victims aren't allowed to talk about it?

I'm not anti-vac. Never have been. I already stated I am vaxxed, my kids are vaxxed against most things. I am against mandatory vaccines, esp when there is profit tied to it.

[Snarkylark]

If you don't think they need HepB unless they're doing drugs or having sex, what're your thoughts on the HPV vax? Please please don't give me the "wait until marriage and only marry a husband who is clean" argument- it has SO many flaws.

My daughter can make that choice for herself.

[tropaka]

yes, some vaccines fail and are ineffective; that doesn't mean ditch vaccination or improve vaccines, especially for life-threatening illnesses.

Here's another blog, but with some numbers that put things in perspective www.redwineandapplesauce.com/2013/03/05 ... reactions/